229 réponses à ce sujet

[Quietness]

Rawgrim wrote...

Woo probably just had a bad day. Nothing more

When people get tired and run down they tend to not filter their thoughts(even more so in CS/PR). 

[ed87]

Stanley Woo wrote...
I'm
sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they
would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and
every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

If
you wish to sum up the conclusion of a multi-part epic game series as
"Red, Green, and Blue," then feel free to. But please don't then
complain that the endings are oversimplified. You are the one who has
slapped that label onto it, not us.

I read that post without knowing it was from Bioware staff and was shocked to find out it was. But its understandable, as theyre human like us and can only take so much negativity. The nature of the post was very defensive though. Maybe Bioware should take a vacation, get away from the fiasco, and come back in a better state to respond to fans.

There are 3 very popular and very critical youtube videos backing our opinion, and they have half a million views with 95% thumbs up. ME3 endings being disappointing is a popular opinion. RGB is a popular opinion. If BW can wrap their heads around that i believe they will do fans right in the end.

Modifié par ed87, 30 mars 2012 - 02:35 .

[Hihoshi101]

I'm
sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they
would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and
every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

If
you wish to sum up the conclusion of a multi-part epic game series as
"Red, Green, and Blue," then feel free to. But please don't then
complain that the endings are oversimplified. You are the one who has
slapped that label onto it, not us.

(...)

I can completely agree with the first part of this quote.
Fan spew theories all the time and just because one fan might have hit close to
what happened does not mean they only used fan feed back to design the
ending...

How ever maybe they should... because really... They have lost it to think the
ending 'as is' is worth being the end... as Indoctrination­ it is a great twist
and explains every plot hole I see in the end away but not as a straight up
twist… a twist like this is worse than dream sequences…

 

The second part how ever was uncalled for because as they
are the end is RGB… I love every the bit of the game but I am sorry the end is
RGB right now I am holding hope it was not intend to stay that way.  Also it is the labels that your fans give
that define your products if the fan say the ending are RGB they are…

Modifié par Hihoshi101, 30 mars 2012 - 02:37 .

[FlyinElk212]

Shepard Wins, I'm sorry, but this thread is counter-intuitive to what you're trying to do.

Creating a thread like this so everyone can see "Stanley Woo's two-faced-ness" is only going to discourage him further from responding to your claims. This thread comes off as a little uncivil because instead of just taking this issue to him personally, you've decided to show it to everyone and try to incite a negative response.

Seriously dude, it's okay. Relax, and take a deep breath. I'm sure Bioware's listening, and I'm sure they've watched plenty of vids--it must be pretty tough on them to keep up with the myriad of comments they need to respond to.

[t_i_e_]

Bump

[die-yng]

I really wish people would dissect any post by BW staff in this forum.

Just think about it, would you post on a board, where this is the reaction you get to almost everything you write?

The reactions here are really extreme, it's like one half of the posters fall over and bow, whenever one of the staff posts and kow tow just because he deems us worthy of a reply and the other half turns every word inside out to find something insulting.

Mr. Woo made one post, probably more as a person than a representative, it was a pretty biased post, but don't give it too much attention.

And Ms. Merizan has actually already had some real hard times, according to herself, because of the tendency to overanalyze every single word by a BW employe, since this whole mess started..
Her statement about it was posted here in this forum, you might find it if you search for it.

[robarcool]

@OP
An out of line post by the guy who ends every line. Mr. Woo, please consider what you type before you type something that insults the entire (a majority who dislike ending) fan base.

[Aznable Char]

I'll repeat what I said in the other thread about this:

I also agree with Mr. Woo (in so far that I understand him) in the sense that complaining about something to be done on our time and on our schedule is not within our realm of discretion nor is it in the realm of our discretion to determine when something is addressed and when it's not .

We are not entitled to their attention or their pity , even , even though I am sure we have a lot of their compassion and understanding . 

This is what we are entitled to , however:

Our Money
Our Time
Our Attention
Our Recommendation to Others
Our Opinion of the game outside of BioWare's spheres .

So instead of attempting to gain something that we are not entitled to (BioWare handholding us)
Let's exercise what we are entitled to .

Spend your money wisely on what you want . If the ending is not what you want , be like me and buy games that are applicable to our likes .
Don't want to spend 200 hours only to have an ending the ruins the experience ? Play a different game . Spend some time doing something else .
Don't want to be hooked in by what some might consider false promises ? Don't listen to their announcements or attend their functions or watch give them pagehits or things like that .
Wish someone warned you about spending 60 dollars on something that you hated ? Be like me and talk about it with your friends . I told them about my experience and they decided for themselves not to buy from BioWare
Feel strongly about warning others to beware of this product? There are great opportunities to make videos and speak freely and openly outside of a moderated forum .

So again . Let's not worry about what we cannot have from BioWare . Let's focus on what we are indeed entitled to . Let them work and not be bothered . Let us be not bothered by them and spend our money elsewhere .

Lastly , why am I here ? Because I wanted to tell BioWare that I loved the game so much that I am willing to give them a chance to fix the ending in order to win back my fan loyalty , money , recommendations , time , effort , etc . I want to be proud to campaign for BioWare again just like when i convinced my friend Luke to buy Dragon Age Origins or when I convinced Anthony to invest in ME1 . I want to be able to do that again . So the Retake movement is about a love letter to BioWare saying "BioWare , please win me back"

And yes people can say we're making demands . So let's not . If Mr. Woo seriously does not want us to demand or feel entitled then let's please not demand . Let's calmly exercise what we are really entitled with instead of asking for something that is not ours .

I want those who aren't satisfied with the ending to be as vocal as possible and channel their anger because I am angry as well . The best way to do that and the only way to really make a difference is by demonstrating that it will affect their bottom line . At that point no amount of hiding behind artistic integrity or smugness can stop them from changing .

Modifié par Aznable Char, 30 mars 2012 - 04:21 .

[JasonDaPsycho]

There's a Cantonese saying of "Respect is paid by others; embarrassment is yours to obtain. " I sure as hell don't respect them no more. Hell, I'm not even sure if they know how embarrassed I am for Mr Woo for posting that reply.

[macrocarl]

All he was saying was that they don't need to get the OK from the forums every time they want to make decisions in a game. If anything he was a bit defensive, but cut the guy some slack! Every time something comes out and people don't like it they threaten BW employees or think they should be fired for doing a terrible job etc. That's a lot to take. Let's not blow this out of propor.......never mind, I forgot I was on the BSN. Proportions= blown

[ComfortablyNumb]

count_4 wrote...

BioWare has indeed developed great skill in insulting players.

And that's why they didn't have enough time to develop proper ending...

[Mizar_Panzar]

This is really nothing. The developer of Bioware has every right to have their creative freedom, and this is what enabled them to create a great ME3 triology up to the last 5 minutes. Even in the last 5 minutes, I saw evidences that the writers wants to create something different and immersive. I also saw, however, evidences that the last 5 minutes were rushed which caused a lot of confusion, and I still have confidence that Bioware will clarify it and provide more closures.

And, now. Could we at least wait till their announcement for their 1st DLC before we start bashing them again?

Modifié par Mizar_Panzar, 30 mars 2012 - 03:02 .

[Shepard Wins]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Shepard Wins, I'm sorry, but this thread is counter-intuitive to what you're trying to do.

Creating a thread like this so everyone can see "Stanley Woo's two-faced-ness" is only going to discourage him further from responding to your claims. This thread comes off as a little uncivil because instead of just taking this issue to him personally, you've decided to show it to everyone and try to incite a negative response.
(...)

I wasn't trying to incite a negative response, believe me or not. I have posted this in the original thread. It got locked. I tried to continue it here. Maybe I should have just PM him.

Seriously dude, it's okay. Relax, and take a deep breath.

I am quite calm right now, thank you. Also I'm also amply searching my mind for a polite way of saying "Don't patronize me".

I'm sure Bioware's listening, and I'm sure they've watched plenty of vids--it must be pretty tough on them to keep up with the myriad of comments they need to respond to.

I reckon it must be tough on them. But another Polish saying comes to mind. Roughly translated: "You must drink the beer you've brewed for yourself".

[PrimalGecko]

Mizar_Panzar wrote...

This is really nothing. The developer of Bioware has every right to have their creative freedom, and this is what enabled them to create a great ME3 triology up to the last 5 minutes. Even in the last 5 minutes, I saw evidences that the writers wants to create something different and immersive. I also saw, however, evidences that the last 5 minutes were rushed which caused a lot of confusion, and I still have confidence that Bioware will clarify it and provide more closures.

And, now. Could we at least wait till their announcement for their 1st DLC before we start bashing them again?

They don't need to clarify it, they need to dump it into the ET cartridge landfill in New Mexico and write an appropriate ending that isn't so wonky and convoluted, which is exactly what needs to be buried and forgotten.  Bioware made a great game, but the greatness ended when you get blasted by Harbinger.

[PrimalGecko]

Shepard Wins wrote...

I reckon it must be tough on them. But another Polish saying comes to mind. Roughly translated: "You must drink the beer you've brewed for yourself".

How about "You make the bed you sleep in" ? 

[CJMissen]

I'm behind OP on this one. I should really be slapped for saying it again and again
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't mean you're an artist"

If the endings are INTENDED to be more than ABC, and are designed to be anything BUT RBG to its audience, yet the response and reception of those endings are exactly that. Something has gone wrong. Shifting the blame onto the audience themselves for not comprehending it is an insult to their intelligence. Go ahead and call 50000 people stupid and see what it really gets you.

I do not intend to go into creative business only to treat my audience like idiots that need to be spoon fed everything, I respect their intellect, I can't afford not to, I'm not intending on writing for children but for young adults and upwards.

Even so, I understand that if I intend for a message to get across I sometimes have to try at it once, twice, revise, do it again, and then again, dropping hints all along the way in the hopes that the message will catch and it will steer people the right way... If they don't get it the first time, its not the audiences fault, its mine.

If it is a narrative that is constructed, revolving about audience choice I ALWAYS do the best I can to account for EVERYTHING the audience wants, I can and still do have freedom within that to persue my own interests and questions, themes and ideas and everything else to add and supplement the story and make it all the more enjoyable, least thats the hope.

Within my framework, yes, I do attempt to think of what my target audience is, who they are, what they like, what they will enjoy, from catharsis to drama to intrigue to action to everything in between, below, and above. That Target Audience in the case of Mass Effect 3's conclusion, seems to have been missed on a scale of miles.

I take it upon myself to man up and accept that I have failed to effectively convey the narrative the way that I wanted it to be taken and recieved and enjoyed and I've got to accept that and address it to improve. It IS an incredibly bitter pill to swallow, I understand that at the core, nobody likes their hard work called out for rubbish. But swallow it I shall and then I resolve to improve myself, I wouldn't get better if I didn't.

Whoever it truly responsible for the endings, whether it be one of the writing team, or all of them, I think they've got that bitter pill to swallow now if only in regards to an incredibly small but yet undeniably important part of their work.

I still stand by my endorsement of the series. Yet I cannot, and will not, wholeheartedly endorse or support the entirety of the franchise when I believe myself and many others justified in calling the ending of this otherwise fantastic series out on being completely unsatisfactory, and thats without comparing it to the rest of this incredible opus, I will call it out on what it is as I am ENTITLED (not OVER-ENTITLED) to do so, thank you very much.

When I do compare the endings to the rest of the experience of the series - which is almost constantly - I am beyond devestated at the utter let down the final minutes of the game were, from the holes in them, to the sheer gap and disconnect in quality, consistency and depth between them and the rest of this stellar series.

You can't sell one thing and tell people its something else and expect them to believe you.
Kiss most amicable dealings with your clients goodbye if you insult them, their intelligence, (good bad or otherwise) or their trust whilst you do it.

Modifié par CJMissen, 30 mars 2012 - 03:33 .

[Skyline45]

Stanley Woo wrote...


I'm
sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they
would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and
every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

If
you wish to sum up the conclusion of a multi-part epic game series as
"Red, Green, and Blue," then feel free to. But please don't then
complain that the endings are oversimplified. You are the one who has
slapped that label onto it, not us.

(...)

I'm sorry In a Captialistic model, Doesnt the consumer determine if the writting staff are any of the adjectives you state?

[Shepard Wins]

robarcool wrote...

@OP
An out of line post by the guy who ends every line. Mr. Woo, please consider what you type before you type something that insults the entire (a majority who dislike ending) fan base.

@me? I'd like to address this but I'm kinda lost here. Punctuation, maybe. What do you mean?

PrimalGecko wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

I
reckon it must be tough on them. But another Polish saying comes to
mind. Roughly translated: "You must drink the beer you've brewed for
yourself". [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

How about "You make the bed you sleep in" ? 

With the beer it's more Slavic

Modifié par Shepard Wins, 30 mars 2012 - 03:13 .

[Kanon777]

Torrible wrote...

Gruzmog wrote...

The OP is acting like a jerk and dredging up dead things that should stay dead. He and a few other clowns in this thread do not not represent the majority of the retake movement.

Careful now, he's going to start another page long thread about feeling insulted. 

[QuarianHIV]

ris rant by riorare morerator ris rery rame.

rend of rine

[EnforcerWRX7]

The Stanley Woo comment was way out of line, IMO.

Really insulting to the community as a whole, who have for the most part, been very civil about this whole thing.

It doesn't matter what was intended as the endings.  What matters is REALITY.   We observe and we report what we observe. The endings are broken pieces of copy/paste with 3 different colors.  Everyone sees that.

If you see it differently...please elaborate.  Otherwise, that is what it is.

Modifié par EnforcerWRX7, 30 mars 2012 - 03:25 .

[Shepard Wins]

tobito113 wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Gruzmog wrote...

The OP is acting like a jerk and dredging up dead things that should stay dead. He and a few other clowns in this thread do not not represent the majority of the retake movement.

Careful now, he's going to start another page long thread about feeling insulted. 

Wow, I didn't see that, it's way back there at the beginning of the thread.  Well I've never called anyone a "jerk" or a "clown" in the first place. What a charming, civil person.

Modifié par Shepard Wins, 30 mars 2012 - 03:26 .

[Marta Rio II]

CJMissen wrote...
If the endings are INTENDED to be more than ABC, and are designed to be anything BUT RBG to its audience, yet the response and reception of those endings are exactly that. Something has gone wrong.

Yep.  Hopefully the devs at Bioware are doing their best to understand why the fans keep refering to the ending simply as RBG/ABC.  If they can figure that out (and we've given them plenty of our own reasons why in the various feedback threads), then they're on the right track.

I'm guessing they probably do understand (I mean, how could you miss it, really?).

[Huyna]

Shepard Wins wrote...


Stanley Woo wrote...

I'msorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals

False impressions are dangerous. They can lead to arrogance.
And arrogance already destroyed so many.

Modifié par Huyna, 30 mars 2012 - 04:03 .

[BloodClaw95]

This hurts me.

End of teh line.