229 réponses à ce sujet

[TheTrueObelus]

I could be mistaken but Mr. Woo hadn't played through all 3 games in their entirety at the time he initially posted a response to the OP. Had he done so he might have been a bit more understanding.

Or not. Who knows...

[Vovea]

Shepard Wins wrote...

I also believe you should watch this  .

Wow, I haven't seen that before. It's scary how close it was to my cousin's reaction.

[Amish Love Machine]

Shepard Wins wrote...
1) I'd like to see some response from BW to the points I've raised,

Why would they? Anytime anyone from BW responds, their response is picked over like a day-old carcas by people looking to be offended by every jot and tittle found in said response.

[Captain Arty]

Stanley's comment is disappointing. Though I disagree or have concerns about many of the BioWare posts about the ending. They had all been very professional and respectful until this one.

Stanley's comment also reflects a gross disconnect between what the fans are saying and how BioWare has interpreted our concern.

[nevar00]

Ironically enough, Stanley Woo appeared in my dream last night in the form of a Volus. He wound up getting shot, I think. And then there was something about click beetles.

...I don' t know what any of this has to do with the topic.

[Shepard Wins]

TheTrueObelus wrote...

I could be mistaken but Mr. Woo hadn't played through all 3 games in their entirety at the time he initially posted a response to the OP. Had he done so he might have been a bit more understanding.

Or not. Who knows...

He did say that. Talk about players being more connected to the saga than the actual devs.

About the response, it wasn't a response to me, it was a statement from the beginning of the original thread to which I have responded and got no response in return. Hence this thread.

As for some other posts here, seems that some people are okay with BW repeatedly insulting their intelligence with PR spins. Oh well.

Modifié par Shepard Wins, 30 mars 2012 - 03:58 .

[Brahlis]

Woo's the most unpleasant of all the mods, so I'm not sure why any of you are surprised he said something like that.

Modifié par Brahlis, 30 mars 2012 - 03:46 .

[Ender99]

I'm agree with the OP on this one. I found Mr. Woo's response insulting, and using the term "entitled" in these forums it like waving a red flag in front of a bull. He had to know what the response to that would be.

I think the last part of his post all comes down to pride. Bioware does not want to admit they messed up, they do not want to have to swallow their pride. So instead they claim we're the ones at fault for oversimplifying things.

We understand the ending Bioware, it's just bad. Get past your pride, own up to your mistake, and correct it.

[Kanon777]

Shepard Wins wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Gruzmog wrote...

The OP is acting like a jerk and dredging up dead things that should stay dead. He and a few other clowns in this thread do not not represent the majority of the retake movement.

Careful now, he's going to start another page long thread about feeling insulted. 

Wow, I didn't see that, it's way back there at the beginning of the thread.  Well I've never called anyone a "jerk" or a "clown" in the first place. What a charming, civil person.

Its not like you didnt deserve it anyway. You insult Bioware by misreading and overreacting at every statement they make. I think your behaviour is very insulting and uncivil.

Im also offended that you dont think Gruzmog is not a civil person, you should stop insulting him like that. I find that behavior very offensive

[Zuka999]

N-no.. it is not a thing you can comprehend!

[Gibb_Shepard]

I don't see a problem here.

[Shepard Wins]

tobito113 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Torrible wrote...

Gruzmog wrote...

The OP is acting like a jerk and dredging up dead things that should stay dead. He and a few other clowns in this thread do not not represent the majority of the retake movement.

Careful now, he's going to start another page long thread about feeling insulted. 

Wow, I didn't see that, it's way back there at the beginning of the thread.  Well I've never called anyone a "jerk" or a "clown" in the first place. What a charming, civil person.

Its not like you didnt deserve it anyway. You insult Bioware by (1)misreading and (2)overreacting at (3)every statement they make. (4)I think your behaviour is very insulting and uncivil.

Im also offended that (5)you dont think Gruzmog is not a civil person, you should stop insulting him like that. I find that behavior very offensive

1) All right. In your opinion, what am I misreading and how? (a genuine question)
2) Overreaction, underreaction, it is MY reaction. Like I said before, I have the right to my opinion. Do you wish to deny me that?
3)Not every one of them, just the ones I've quoted. They were "a drop that overfills the big jar goblet of bitterness" (another proverb translated very roughly, my friends this is fun!)
4) Likewise, my good Sir.
5) I'm sorry, I acted in defense. Gruzmog, if you read this, I genuinely think you are a civil person. Except at times you call others "jerks" and "clowns" for voicing their feelings.

Did I miss something?

EDIT: I remembered, a jar that's full of bitterness is a goblet.

Modifié par Shepard Wins, 30 mars 2012 - 04:10 .

[Syrellaris]

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

yea, I have to agree. That post by Mr. Woo was out of line, no questions about it.

"I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals"

is essentially saying you are not one. Not good.

How is it out of line when he speaks the truth? Bioware and there developers and artists are the ones that created Mass effect, not us fan.  They do not have to listen to fan feedback or ideas for Mass Effect 3. The fact that they are willing to alter the ending to clarify proofs that they however do listen to the community.

Just because players dislike the ending, does not make them right. They are neither kings or queens as the popular customer phrase is about.

[OrumLeader]

 I think Mr. Woo's post points out most openly how bioware feels about this situation.

They may be "listening" to the fans, but they certainly don't agree or seem to relate to what the fans are having issues with.  I think this suble underlying theme is evident in just about every response from bioware (although Mr. Woo appears very open about it).

They may release changes to the game (i think it will just be added content to explain the current endings), but it won't be what anyone wants.  I don't think this situation ends well.  I think biware will hold their ground.

[jumpingkaede]

Syrellaris wrote...

How is it out of line when he speaks the truth? Bioware and there developers and artists are the ones that created Mass effect, not us fan.  They do not have to listen to fan feedback or ideas for Mass Effect 3. The fact that they are willing to alter the ending to clarify proofs that they however do listen to the community.

Just because players dislike the ending, does not make them right. They are neither kings or queens as the popular customer phrase is about.

I guess if the truth is that

"Bioware is talented and creative, and therefore their ending and game direction is talented and creative and therefore fan input is implicitly neither talented nor creative and therefore unnecessary.  So shutup."

I mean that's basically it.  It's not literally it but that's the sense and that's the meaning.

OrumLeader wrote...

 I think Mr. Woo's post points out most openly how bioware feels about this situation.

They may be "listening" to the fans, but they certainly don't agree or seem to relate to what the fans are having issues with.  I think this suble underlying theme is evident in just about every response from bioware (although Mr. Woo appears very open about it).

They may release changes to the game (i think it will just be added content to explain the current endings), but it won't be what anyone wants.  I don't think this situation ends well.  I think biware will hold their ground.

lol subtle?

Every Bioware response says this blatantly:

1.  We love our ending.

2.  We think it's artistic.

3.  Critics all love our ending.

4.  Why fans don't love it we have no idea.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 30 mars 2012 - 04:17 .

[Talogrungi]

Syrellaris wrote...

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

yea, I have to agree. That post by Mr. Woo was out of line, no questions about it.

"I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals"

is essentially saying you are not one. Not good.

How is it out of line when he speaks the truth? Bioware and there developers and artists are the ones that created Mass effect, not us fan.  They do not have to listen to fan feedback or ideas for Mass Effect 3. The fact that they are willing to alter the ending to clarify proofs that they however do listen to the community.

Just because players dislike the ending, does not make them right. They are neither kings or queens as the popular customer phrase is about.

See, I was also under the impression that BioWare is populated with talented, creative individuals.

Would have been nice if they'd been allowed to work on the endings free of debilitatingly restrictive deadlines.

Please don't take the stance that Bioware is being benevolent merely by deigning to acknowledge our views; this isn't charity on their part .. our vocal disappointment is having a negative impact on them. ME3 has been out in my country less than 3 weeks and has dropped 40% in price.

Responding to fan feedback is self-preservation, not altruism.

[OrumLeader]

jumpingkaede wrote...

lol subtle?

Every Bioware response says this blatantly:

1.  We love our ending.

2.  We think it's artistic.

3.  Critics all love our ending.

4.  Why fans don't love it we have no idea.

LOL...i was trying to be non-confrontational and create an agrument.

[Asepsis]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Snakedude4life wrote...

But
who asked for this ending? What feedback showed you (or rather the
designers) that we wanted "space magic"? or a ending that can be summed
as "Red, Green or Blue"? Also, did the feedback show that people
who might want to import an ME1 Face would have problems?

I'm
sorry. I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they
would like to implement in the game. I didn't realize that each and
every facet of the game needed to be in response to a fan's request.

If
you wish to sum up the conclusion of a multi-part epic game series as
"Red, Green, and Blue," then feel free to. But please don't then
complain that the endings are oversimplified. You are the one who has
slapped that label onto it, not us.

(...)

I'm...speechless.

I'm sorry but to agree or disagree with the endings is besides the point.

The quote above directly insults not only that one fan, but all fans who may dislike the ending. Not only is this unprofessional, it's just plain old hateful. I know the devs must be stressed out because they are getting a lot of flack for their game that they worked hard on, but if a fan had done that to another fan it would have been considered a break of the forum rules. We aren't supposed to insult each other personally, and that was a personal attack.

Modifié par Asepsis, 30 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[Babyberry]

Bioware is a business. While I understand people's feelings have been hurt by fans not accepting the ending, they need to start acting like a company. PR should not have backhanded complaints about the fans, and anything said by any representative of the company needs to be less emotional and actually do some damage control.

I am astounded by how poor their PR has been so far. Ray Muzyka's statement has been the most helpful, and even some of the language in that can be interpreted as a backhanded complaint against the fans who dislike the ending.

They really need to get everyone onto the same script. At this point, I would rather see a bunch of the same, non-committed statements than this emotionally charged mess they are creating. Makes Bioware look terrible.

Modifié par Babyberry, 30 mars 2012 - 04:22 .

[DashRunner92]

Syrellaris wrote...

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

yea, I have to agree. That post by Mr. Woo was out of line, no questions about it.

"I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals"

is essentially saying you are not one. Not good.

How is it out of line when he speaks the truth? Bioware and there developers and artists are the ones that created Mass effect, not us fan.  They do not have to listen to fan feedback or ideas for Mass Effect 3. The fact that they are willing to alter the ending to clarify proofs that they however do listen to the community.

Just because players dislike the ending, does not make them right. They are neither kings or queens as the popular customer phrase is about.

Because the whole purpose of making a game is entertainment. If the customer is not entertained, the game fails. As you see by the freefalling price of ME3, the massive backlash, and dropping EA stock, it's safe to say, Bioware was wrong. There's nothing wrong with changing an ending, Sherlock Homes is proof. 

Modifié par DashRunner92, 30 mars 2012 - 04:25 .

[Kanon777]

Shepard Wins wrote...
1) All right. In your opinion, what am I misreading and how? (a genuine question)
2) Overreaction, underreaction, it is MY reaction. Like I said before, I have the right to my opinion. Do you wish to deny me that?
3)Not every one of them, just the ones I've quoted. They were "a drop that overfills the big jar goblet of bitterness" (another proverb translated very roughly, my friends this is fun!)
4) Likewise, my good Sir.
5) I'm sorry, I acted in defense. Gruzmog, if you read this, I genuinely think you are a civil person. Except at times you call others "jerks" and "clowns" for voicing their feelings.

Did I miss something?

EDIT: I remembered, a jar that's full of bitterness is a goblet.

Im offended that you dont agree with me on everything, please stop being so insulting to everyone who disagree with you. This feels like a slap in the face, how dare you...

[Syrellaris]

Talogrungi wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

yea, I have to agree. That post by Mr. Woo was out of line, no questions about it.

"I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals"

is essentially saying you are not one. Not good.

How is it out of line when he speaks the truth? Bioware and there developers and artists are the ones that created Mass effect, not us fan.  They do not have to listen to fan feedback or ideas for Mass Effect 3. The fact that they are willing to alter the ending to clarify proofs that they however do listen to the community.

Just because players dislike the ending, does not make them right. They are neither kings or queens as the popular customer phrase is about.

See, I was also under the impression that BioWare is populated with talented, creative individuals.

Would have been nice if they'd been allowed to work on the endings free of debilitatingly restrictive deadlines.

Please don't take the stance that Bioware is being benevolent merely by deigning to acknowledge our views; this isn't charity on their part .. our vocal disappointment is having a negative impact on them. ME3 has been out in my country less than 3 weeks and has dropped 40% in price.

Responding to fan feedback is self-preservation, not altruism.

Mass effect 3 is still one of the best selling games they have right now, a few fans returning there copies does not matter. The price hasn't dropped that big either, I am sorry to dissapoint you in that,

However, the fans in this community, with the exception of a select few, have been extremely rude and insulting. You cannot expect anyone, a company or person, to keep responding civil at that point.

You so called fans take something they say, over analyze it to death and twist it and twist it just to find that one piece of so called information that confirms your so called hatred. I have seen that with pretty much everything bioware has posted regarding the matter, the threads created that were insulting etc.

Those aren't real fans nor people of the actuall Retake movement. Those are just plain spoiled brats, and the Opening poster is one of them.

You can Like or dislike the endings, you can agree or disagree with what bioware said or you can even openly discuss it nicely as adults, thats the right people have. However if you start demanding things to be changed because you disagree with it and it is not even your own creation  or paying someone to make that select item or whatever you wanted, you are just being rude.

[Syrellaris]

DashRunner92 wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

yea, I have to agree. That post by Mr. Woo was out of line, no questions about it.

"I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with
talented, creative individuals"

is essentially saying you are not one. Not good.

How is it out of line when he speaks the truth? Bioware and there developers and artists are the ones that created Mass effect, not us fan.  They do not have to listen to fan feedback or ideas for Mass Effect 3. The fact that they are willing to alter the ending to clarify proofs that they however do listen to the community.

Just because players dislike the ending, does not make them right. They are neither kings or queens as the popular customer phrase is about.

Because the whole purpose of making a game is entertainment. If the customer is not entertained, the game fails. As you see by the freefalling price of ME3, the massive backlash, and dropping EA stock, it's safe to say, Bioware was wrong. There's nothing wrong with changing an ending, Sherlock Homes is proof. 

Matter of opinion to be honest

[Amish Love Machine]

Asepsis wrote...

I'm...speechless.

I'm sorry but to agree or disagree with the endings is besides the point.

The quote above directly insults not only that one fan, but all fans who may dislike the ending. Not only is this unprofessional, it's just plain old hateful. I know the devs must be stressed out because they are getting a lot of flack for their game that they worked hard on, but if a fan had done that to another fan it would have been considered a break of the forum rules. We aren't supposed to insult each other personally, and that was a personal attack.

How is

I was under the impression that BioWare was populated with talented, creative individuals who have ideas of their own that they would like to implement in the game.

 
a personal attack?

[CronoDragoon]

It's okay for Stanley to defend his co-workers, you know. You guys are twisting his post to make it seem like he was calling the fans idiots, which he was not. If anything, the post he was responding to suggested that Bioware cannot produce original ideas and can only be a reflection of the fans. I don't think you believe that, and neither does Stanley, so he responded by pointing out that it's okay, and indeed necessary, for the writers to try and put some of their ideas out there. There's no reason to deny this.

I don't think anyone will deny creative, talented people write for Bioware. If we didn't believe that, we'd have no reason to ask them trust them to change it

If you guys want anything but PR talk, you need to stop jumping on someone when they say something real and assuming the worst interpretation of the words. Some people in here are acting like Stanley just dropped a slur or something.