60 réponses à ce sujet

[Rainen89]

Agree with Dalish and Human noble, dalish was just disappointing and human noble was a pretentious brat, I just loved it for the Howe storyline. (Have my babies tim curray.) City elf was a great catalyst to being a vengeful warrior.

[Kuravid]

Isaantia wrote...

I disagree about the mage thing. I think siding with Jowan sets up the slippery slope of going evil in that "road to hell is paved with good intentions" kind of way. The mage origin was the only one where I felt the PC had some kind of say in being a Grey Warden. And if you support Irving, you really feel the sense of responsibility and duty the Circle has instilled and you can carry that sense of duty into your Warden.
 

Stabbing your best friend in the back because your duty to your dolled up prison is greater than your duty to your friends, and therefore that makes you a more honorable, responsible individual? When I betrayed Jowan, I felt like an evil conformist. When I helped Jowan out, I felt ticked off that he lied about using blood magic, but I also sympathized with his cowardice and his eagerness to escape the circle in any way possible, even if that meant lying. Because the circle sucks. And the chantry is the man. 

[Kuravid]

Sereaph502 wrote...

General RP directions, yes. But ultimatly, it's the player who decides how their character will be. whether they decide to RP based off their origin and what their character would do based on the origin or RP based on what they themselves would do is their own choice.

Personally I did a bit of both as a city elf

That's a really good way to put it.

[Frozenmojo]

telephasic wrote...

Dalish Elf: This sets you up to be a doll-eyed vulcan with no personality to speak of.   I can't say enough bad things about it and the Dalish in general, who seem to have no personalities (besides Zathrian of course).  

Such slander. My dalish was one of the riches of my 4, so far, playthroughs. Starting out as distrustful of outsiders as any other dalish, killed one of the humans you encountered at the start. And then you get tainted and your best friend, Tamlen, disappered. Joining Duncan and the Grey Wardens to protect your own clan and to make something of the life you have left. Eventually after Ostagar the self realisation that as a Grey Warden you're a protector of the land and its people regarless of the biggots that call it home. Joining up with fellow warden Alistair and later Wynne. Finding out what had become of my friend Tamlen was also an eye opener what the taint would have done to me had I not been treated, becomming a Shriek. Eventually making Alistair King since I wold't trust the daughter of a betrayer with the throne. And in the end knowing that my life had been forfeit since that time in the ruin with Tamlen I made the ultimate sacrifice for my clam my friends and ferelden.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Who sez Jowan is your best friend. He's ONE of the many fellow mages in the circle. To me, his was one of those slighly annoying friends.



Anyways I sided with Irwing partially because he said he had witnesses and partially because he allready knew and wasn't stupid. I didn't think for a second that the escape plan would work..and if I told that to Jowan he might have panicked and things could have gotten far worse.



That said, my elven female mage holds no grudge towards the Templars and respects Gregoir. He was a bit harsh at the end of the origin, but then again he was angry at the moment.

[Riona45]

Kuravid wrote...

Stabbing your best friend in the back because your duty to your dolled up prison is greater than your duty to your friends, and therefore that makes you a more honorable, responsible individual? When I betrayed Jowan, I felt like an evil conformist.

Agreed, betraying Jowan just seems both slimy and authoritarian to me.  A bad combination for sure.

Modifié par Riona45, 02 décembre 2009 - 07:38 .

[elearon1]

>>You also ultimately want to pick Harrowmont, just to make sure your brother cannot ever profit off his betrayal. <<



See, I disagree. In the eyes of my character Behlen got to power because he played the game better than my brother or I ever suspected. The man deserves respect for his skill in politics and manipulation - besides which, if I sided with Harrowmont I'd be weakening my family's position in the city ... something that certainly does not and should not appeal to a noble born of the most powerful family in a city of relentless political maneuvering.

[RunCDFirst]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Who sez Jowan is your best friend. He's ONE of the many fellow mages in the circle. To me, his was one of those slighly annoying friends.

Jowan was a prat.
I don't get how anyone felt he was a friend, let alone a good friend. The only times you interact with him is when he wants you do something that's strictly forbidden.

"Tell me about the Harrowing, PC! Pleeeeease?"
"Break in and destroy my phylactery even though I'll be long gone and you'll be in such deep trouble that they'll have to Tranquil you. But at least I won't be Tranquiled. Pleeeeease?"
"Also, I'm not going to tell you that you are risking your life by helping a Blood Mage even though I want to use you like a tool so don't ask about it. Pleeeease?"

Yeah, I felt real bad about turning him in. <_<

Modifié par RunCDFirst, 02 décembre 2009 - 07:42 .

[Leo]

Kuravid wrote...
As for making an evil city elf, I can't really see it. If you play as a female, you're basically carted off to Vaughan's house so that he can rape you. I noticed, however, if you play a male city elf, it's much easier to end up as hero than it is as a female city elf.

What threw me off about Vaughan's offer is that he threatens to send guards to the alienage to beat up on elves, basically, if you don't give him the other elf girls for the night. Being that I played this out twice, I found out that if you don't take his offer and you kill him, nothing at all happens to the alienage. No guards come to slaughter some of your relatives. This kind of ticked me off, because the first time I played the city elf origin I did take his offer, simply because I didn't want half of the alienage to be destroyed (I'd rather sacrifice a few women over a whole or even half of a city). So, when I get to the alienage towards the end of the game, of course all the elves despise me. This sucked, because I played an otherwise really good character.

Vaughn can't exactly follow through with his threat if he's dead, and of course the other elves would despise you since you did allow a human to get away with his crime for gold. 

[Riona45]

RunCDFirst wrote...


Jowan was a prat.
I don't get how anyone felt he was a friend, let alone a good friend. The only times you interact with him is when he wants you do something that's strictly forbidden.

You can agree to help him for reasons other than loyalty to him, of course.

"Tell me about the Harrowing, PC! Pleeeeease?"

In my game I gladly did so, by the way.

Modifié par Riona45, 02 décembre 2009 - 07:48 .

[Kuravid]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Who sez Jowan is your best friend. He's ONE of the many fellow mages in the circle. To me, his was one of those slighly annoying friends.

Jowan was a prat.
I don't get how anyone felt he was a friend, let alone a good friend. The only times you interact with him is when he wants you do something that's strictly forbidden.

"Tell me about the Harrowing, PC! Pleeeeease?"
"Break in and destroy my phylactery even though I'll be long gone and you'll be in such deep trouble that they'll have to Tranquil you. But at least I won't be Tranquiled. Pleeeeease?"
"Also, I'm not going to tell you that you are risking your life by helping a Blood Mage even though I want to use you like a tool so don't ask about it. Pleeeease?"

Yeah, I felt real bad about turning him in. <_<

He wasn't necessarily a mature and selfless individual, but he was still your friend. I mean it was established right after the harrowing that the two of you were like BFFZ 4lyfe for whatever reasons. You have a history, even if it isn't explained. And if you're a girl, and you talk to Lily and you make some comments about why Jowan isn't interested in being your boyfriend, she'll mention that all he ever does is talk about you. So you are important to him.

And really. Even tattle telling on some of your annoying friends just feels slimy.

[Kuravid]

Pious_Augustine wrote...

Vaughn can't exactly follow through with his threat if he's dead, and of course the other elves would despise you since you did allow a human to get away with his crime for gold. 

No, he can't follow through with his threat if he's dead, but I assumed that someone from his home would just figure out that it was a bunch of elves that killed him and then take their vengeance out on the alienage.

I was thinking too much about what could happen.

[SonvarTheMighty]

While the Origin chosen might dictate some choices it doesn't require you play the good or bad guy. The Dwarf Noble may have been well liked but technically he could've been just as manipulative as his brother.

[Isaantia]

Kuravid wrote...

Stabbing your best friend in the back because your duty to your dolled up prison is greater than your duty to your friends, and therefore that makes you a more honorable, responsible individual? When I betrayed Jowan, I felt like an evil conformist. When I helped Jowan out, I felt ticked off that he lied about using blood magic, but I also sympathized with his cowardice and his eagerness to escape the circle in any way possible, even if that meant lying. Because the circle sucks. And the chantry is the man. 

My character wasn't unhappy in the tower. She thought Jowan was being foolish. Even when presented with the analogus situation - her relationship with Alistair - she still chose duty over staying with him and chose to die. She also hated Morrigan. I guess she was a martyr. heh. Was it worth it? It was to her.

The point is that is possible to RP an origin differently.

[RunCDFirst]

Kuravid wrote...
He wasn't necessarily a mature and selfless individual, but he was still your friend. I mean it was established right after the harrowing that the two of you were like BFFZ 4lyfe for whatever reasons. You have a history, even if it isn't explained. And if you're a girl, and you talk to Lily and you make some comments about why Jowan isn't interested in being your boyfriend, she'll mention that all he ever does is talk about you. So you are important to him.

And really. Even tattle telling on some of your annoying friends just feels slimy.

I'd tell on my friends if they were trying to put me in deep trouble while messing around with dark rituals for summoning demons and the like. They'd just know better not to get me involved.

I didn't feel the BFF vibe. Friendship is more than just asking your buddy to do something. Hell, he could have shown a bit more concern after my Harrowing, since everyone is aware how terrible it is. The gossiping girls show more interest in your wellbeing than Jowan.

I'm assuming you're friends with him out of pity. He doesn't seem like the most popular kid in school.

Isaantia wrote...
My character wasn't unhappy in the tower.
She thought Jowan was being foolish. Even when presented with the
analogus situation - her relationship with Alistair - she still chose
duty over staying with him and chose to die. She also hated Morrigan. I
guess she was a martyr. heh. Was it worth it? It was to her.

The point is that is possible to RP an origin differently. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sideways.png[/smilie]

Awww, our mages should be friends.

Modifié par RunCDFirst, 02 décembre 2009 - 08:01 .

[Kuravid]

RunCDFirst wrote...

I'm assuming you're friends with him out of pity. He doesn't seem like the most popular kid in school.

I have a soft spot for the outcasts in school. And sitting around with them cursing all of the popular, beautiful people as they walk by.

[RunCDFirst]

Kuravid wrote...

RunCDFirst wrote...

I'm assuming you're friends with him out of pity. He doesn't seem like the most popular kid in school.

I have a soft spot for the outcasts in school. And sitting around with them cursing all of the popular, beautiful people as they walk by.

But all we want is to be loved!

[Kuravid]

Isaantia wrote...


My character wasn't unhappy in the tower. She thought Jowan was being foolish. Even when presented with the analogus situation - her relationship with Alistair - she still chose duty over staying with him and chose to die. She also hated Morrigan. I guess she was a martyr. heh. Was it worth it? It was to her.

The point is that is possible to RP an origin differently.

The Chantry has you locked up in the tower solely because you are different, because they believe that you are incapable of taking responsibility for your own life and what you do with it. You are outlawed, basically, because of who you are. It was very difficult for my mage not to feel a ton of resentment towards the Circle and the Chantry. She did not think particularly highly of the tower for these reasons, nor did she feel that she had any kind of responsibility to honor her place in the Circle by betraying her friend. Later, when it came to saving the Circle, she did so not because she respected the Circle, but because slaughtering innocent people is just wrong.

But yes, the point is that it is possible to RP an origin differently---I agree with you there completely.

[Kuravid]

RunCDFirst wrote...

But all we want is to be loved!

We refuse to cater to your narcissism! 

[syllogi]

I looked at Jowan as the annoying little brother in my mage origin. My personal backstory for Xaea Surana was that she was raised in the Denerim alienage, was happy in the Circle, and cared for and respected Irving as a mentor/father figure. So when Jowan came to my character, she went to Irving (after telling Jowan she couldn't promise him anything), and tried to reason with him about making Jowan a Tranquil. Of course, Irving knew everything already, and it was futile, so the only logical course at that point was to go along with whatever Irving had planned. She wasn't thrilled, and would have preferred to just stay out of it at that point, but it was no longer an option. So I didn't feel slimy or like I was betraying Jowan at all, just that I had been roped into doing something I had not intended.



There are many ways to play any of the origins. My human noble rogue was a spoiled and slightly rebellious teenager, who enjoyed sneaking out at night and hitting on every guy in sight (why not Ser Gilmore???), and she dreamed of travelling and seeing the world, but certainly not as a Grey Warden, that didn't sound like fun. Once she was made a Grey Warden, she was pretty bitter, and revenge against Howe was her main motivator, but she still was no martyr or angel. That was pretty easy to roleplay, I didn't feel confined by the plot, and I'm glad of that. There's no reason to assume that anyone HAS to play each origin any one way.

[RunCDFirst]

Why do you have set last names if no one ever uses them?

[Cuiva]

I assume the last names are used for coding purposes, to determine your background. But that's only my guess...

[Gegenlicht]

telephasic wrote...

Having played all the origins, I really feel that you have one, or maybe two, sensible options for each one.

So far, I agree. However, my take on some of the origins is completely different.

Human Noble:  Goody-two-shoes all the way.  I don't remember any options in the starting dialogue to be a dick to your family and servants.  In addition, the betrayal of your family by Howe sets you up in some ways to be the anti-Howe, to at least percieve yourself as everything he is not.

Agree with the anti-Howe sentiment in general. However, I experienced my noble as being fueled by a thirst for revenge and an understanding of noblesse oblige which nicely jibed with the Grey Warden oath. My noble was willing to do whatever it took for the good of Ferelden.

A human noble would always choose Harrowmont over Behlen IMHO, as he would see too many paralells between the treachery against his own family and Behlen's.

I think it could go either way. My noble's interest was really mainly to see the dwarves reunited at all, but since the choice is ultimately left to you... Both candidates had sensible supporters. In the end it was in my best interests to see dwarves open themselves more towards the surface world so a situation like this where they've completely deadlocked themselves could be circumvented the next time.

Howe's alliance with Loghain makes it highly unlikely a noble human would spare Loghain.  I know for self-interested reasons a male might pick Anora, but nothing about your character suggests you're the kind of calculating social climber who would do that.

On the other hand, if you've held your party together up to this point and led them through countless dangers, you're probably also best served running the entire kingdom. Anora has the political know-how to do the strategizing and diplomacy, you have the hands-on skills and tactical leadership abilities. It's not an unreasonable option. Of course I also considered Arl Eamon's words that Maric's line should continue and tried to marry Alistair off to Anora.

But of course he had to throw a **** fit when I also chose to spare Loghain. I'm a noble's child. I do have a basic grasp of politics and diplomacy. Maybe not as much as Anora, but it's workable. Loghain still is a hero to the people of Ferelden. He's their great liberator, the unparalleled general, the most visible bastion against any threat the nation faces. To have him executed will only prove that even the greatest of heroes can fall and breed a cynical mindset. Allowing him to become a Grey Warden instead cements his legend into an inspiring tale of the man who gave everything for Ferelden. His youth, his daughter twice and ultimately his very life.

Mage:  To my mind, mage RPing splits based upon your decision with Jowen. If you help Jowen, it shows you're "good," along with a naive fool to think you could break into the basement and kill a lot of things without anyone noticing.  You become a cliched stupid good white knighter.

I saw this completely differently. I saw Jowan as an idiot who comes running to me everytime he can't tie his own damn shoelaces. Short of becoming a Bloodmage, he's done everything he shouldn't do. Asked for cheats for the Harrowing, slept with the enemy, tried to destroy his phylactery... all of these things without concern for his supposed friend, me. Summary? I can't even start to rationalize helping Jowan, and I definitely can't see the moral good in assisting him.

Turning him in to the First Enchanter shows you're more concerned about your own position in the Circle than helping your best friend - ironically, this sets you up much better to be "evil."

Erm. Or it shows that I have a sense of understanding why magic is so rigidly controlled in Ferelden. Jowan should be happy he's not Qunari. As my later visits to the Circle Tower and Redcliffe will show, this is a safe assessment. Magic is not for the weak of mind (ie. Jowan), and Jowan is an idiot with criminal tendencies (just ask Arl Eamon). Why should erring on the side of accepted law be morally 'evil'? (Granted, the way Irving wants the matter handled is far from nice, but Lily had it coming to her the moment she hooked up with Jowan).

Noble Dwarf:  The main themes of the origin are you were loved by the people, and you were betrayed by Behlen.  You can be a total dick to commoners if you like, which helps in setting up a darker character, but the origin builds you up as a "hero."  Regardless of how you play the character, you're the only origin with a really compelling reason to preserve the Anvil beyond getting some golem cannon fodder.  You also ultimately want to pick Harrowmont, just to make sure your brother cannot ever profit off his betrayal.

I'd argue the Anvil holds a lot of interest to Mages. Wynne goes on and on about how they have Golems at the Tower but don't understand them enough. If the Anvil is left intact, maybe they'll have a chance to learn more.

As for the Dwarven Noble in general? Yes, you were beloved by the people, but it's never explicitly stated why. Maybe you just rocked the Provings? I know I did. In the modern day, people will devote their lives to sports and movie stars they've never met personally, just based on their achievements.

And in regards to Bhelen? See above for my take on rationalizing picking Bhelen as a good thing. More importantly, you know firsthand just how canny he is. If you want to think about what's best for your people, you might want to consider that a good king needs to be smart more than they need to be conservative.

There's a few game decisions I just have a hard time seeing anyone make.  Persuading the werewolves to kill all the Dalish, for example, only makes sense if you metagame and know you'll get a werewolf army.  Since the PC doesn't have a treaty from the werewolves, they have no way of knowing that, and no origin sets you up to hate the elves enough.

How about seeing the Werewolves for the victims that they claim to be and having justified fury at the people who vilify them? It's as easy to rationalize killing the Elves for the Werewolves as it would be to kill the Werewolves for the Elves. In fact, if you're a human who happens to not like Elves (which when seen through the eyes of a Fereldan wouldn't really be out of the ordinary), you might feel far more pity for the Werewolves once you realize they're all cursed humans. But admittedly, the diplomatic path seems the best solution to this issue in most cases. Elves might not care and just try to be rid of the Werewolves, though.

Siding with the cultists also doesn't really make sense to me with any origin story unless you metagame because you want to unlock Reaver.

I don't know. Being a Mage who's essentially been destined to a lifetime of imprisonment by the Chantry's claims that all Mages are essentially evil might be a good motivation. Granted, you escaped that life via the Grey Wardens, but there is little reason why you should care for the Chantry in that case. Despoiling what could be their greatest treasure might certainly be one way to get back at them.

For Dwarves, it could simply a way to circumvent a fight with the Reavers. They have no attachment to Andraste for better or worse, so why would they care? Even Elves, in spite of Andraste originally liberating them, could have enough resentment towards the Chantry to want to despoil the Ashes. Wasn't it the Chantry that started the conflict that saw them cast back into slavery after all?


Same origins, very different conclusions.

[Riona45]

Gegenlicht wrote...
I saw this completely differently. I saw Jowan as an idiot who comes running to me everytime he can't tie his own damn shoelaces. Short of becoming a Bloodmage, he's done everything he shouldn't do. Asked for cheats for the Harrowing, slept with the enemy...

Slept with the enemy?  Who, Lily?

Knowing that Jowan would go on to help Loghain and poison Arl Eamon would require incredible mental powers that your character most likely wouldn't have at the time...

Modifié par Riona45, 02 décembre 2009 - 09:28 .

[Mikka-chan]

I found a pretty good reason to destroy the ashes and to side with the werewolves on my elven mage- spite.

She told Irving about Jowan after Jowan dismissed her crush on him to make moon-eyes at some Chantry girl. She felt surprisingly guilty- but in the end when he ran off with blood magic while Lily abandoned him and then Irving handed her over to Duncan while Gregior whined about her following Irving's orders, she just felt bitter. Her motives throughout the game have basically been 'what can hurt the things I'm ridiculously petty about the most'. The Dalish looked down on her, with the Keeper's first giving little 'oh, once we get your people out of Alienage's we'll teach you the *real* things'- oh, how dare they assume they were better then her! The ashes of some pretty little princess who saved everyone and who gets talked about in awe by everyone but lead to the situation with the Templers and the Mage Tower (and Lily!)? Screw that. Screw it all.

Playing a character in a childish, petty, and overly emotional and somewhat ridiculous was actually fun- even more for the knowledge that the world will listen to her and follow her anyway. As she shoves Loghain at the Archdemon just to 'punish' Alistair for having once been a Templer and Morrigan for daring to have magical knowledge she doesn't and then stands smugly in front of Queen Anora as the Grey Warden who Saved The World... well, congratulations, world. Here's your savior.

(Don't you wish Duncan had been hanging out in Orz or Castle Cousland, now?)