Windows 8 is starting to move to my must buy list. Hopefully this is true across the board.
Serious Graphics Problems
Débuté par
SabaOra
, mars 30 2012 01:22
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#27
Posté 30 mars 2012 - 10:58
SabaOra
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painofdungeoneternal wrote...
Windows 8 is starting to move to my must buy list. Hopefully this is true across the board.
Not really, but with alot of feed back most likely, currently in the Consumer preiew theirs no way to make it desktop only. It takes some getting used to but the current metro/desktop interface doesn't take that much getting used to, even with just a mouse and keyboard (i don't have a touch screen which would probably make it even simpler), for quite a while it was acctualy my main OS (it just being a beta and me being damn picky with my OS's shoudl mean something) and I had no problems with almost anything. If I did, work arounds where easy to find, the only reason i switched back was due to ONE game i owned not working quite right, I'm a bit of a nostalgia ****** so i stupidly ditched it just for that one thing.
A little stupid but i can probably make it work since I've discovered a few tools that should make it run well so i shouldn't have to change back
#28
Posté 30 mars 2012 - 11:19
painofdungeoneternal
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SabaOra wrote...
It's not so much argueing i'm seeing as it's just generaly people treating me like I'm stupid and don't know ANYTHING about what I'm doing. Going to forums is litteraly a last resort for me and always has been becuase i tend to be able to figure it out on my own one way or another. What bothers me is that this issue apperes to be unique becuase I couldn't find anyone with the same or a similar issue
You basically assumed that you are going to get a stupid response in your first post prior to any of us responding. While i can tell you are very smart, doing things way beyond what any other user i've helped is capable of doing, i can also say that the people you are talking to have been posting responses for probably 5 years now, and are not without accomplishments worthy of respect, not to mention having helped people with pretty unique issues.
Yes it does seem unique in specfics, but it also seems pretty clear it's the graphics card or driver from your own description. It could be something else but really unlikely ( and reinstalling clean the game would basically prove it has to be the graphics card or the driver )
The driver and entire system in 8 is different, probably has some optimizations put in to support intel video which are not in previous systems.
While you say most responses are repeating the same thing, well i've learned most people asking for help tend to repeat the same basic problems - and often I know what the issue is but have trouble convincing the end user to do the proper thing as they often have strong preconceptions which are hard to over come.
#29
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 12:39
Axe_Edge
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Hi. I don't see NWN2 on Intel's "Games Playable List" for the card/controller:
Game playable with built-in Intel® HD Graphics 3000/2000
"
Note
If a game does not appear on the compatibility list, it means Intel has not specifically tested the game and is not aware of any issues. If you are experiencing an issue with a game not on our compatibility list, refer to our game troubleshooting steps for assistance.
"
May want to contact Intel's support. They may not know there is a problem.
Hope you get it working. As you know, it is a great game.
Edit: I noticed in your first post you installd VC++. Many sources suggest making sure VC++ 2005 and 2008 are installed.
Game playable with built-in Intel® HD Graphics 3000/2000
"
Note
If a game does not appear on the compatibility list, it means Intel has not specifically tested the game and is not aware of any issues. If you are experiencing an issue with a game not on our compatibility list, refer to our game troubleshooting steps for assistance.
"
May want to contact Intel's support. They may not know there is a problem.
Hope you get it working. As you know, it is a great game.
Edit: I noticed in your first post you installd VC++. Many sources suggest making sure VC++ 2005 and 2008 are installed.
Modifié par Axe_Edge, 31 mars 2012 - 12:58 .
#30
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 05:59
dunniteowl
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No-one's treating you like you're stupid. The thing is, you're obviously very bright, but you've been explicitly informed that the video drivers are the most likely issue. This is the most likely cause.
I cannot understand, even remotely, why you'd be running it in a VM in the first place.
Quick story. When I was in the Air Force fixing radios, I would sometimes hit a wall in my troubleshooting where I just couldn't figure out what to do or check next. I'd call into the shop from the planes (I worked on big honking cargo planes) and ask for help.
I'd then go on to explain what I'd done so far -- and you know what those older, more experienced guys would tell me? They'd tell me to go back and check all the things I just told them I checked. I hated it. But I endured it, because I realized that if I just kept at it and waited it out, sooner or later, they'd spit something out that I could use. So I'd sit there at the radio, in the cockpit, pretending to do all those other things until they'd say something I hadn't done.
But you gotta be willing to subrogate yourself and be patient. Having read your initial post, I can honestly tell you that if you really wanna get it to run in Win7, and the fonts are messed up, the only logical answer is video drivers. Especially if you had it running in XP and in Win8. (Of course, you could do yourself a favor and just friggin' dump Win7, but that might not be practical in your case.)
Sometimes, the latest video drivers for a maker are not for all video cards they make and occasionally the revision notes will inform you that some cards are definitely not supposed to use the new drivers or that the new drivers won't support some functions. Just because the latest drivers work in Win8 (which I hear good things mostly in regard to it) doesn't mean those same drivers will do the trick in Win7 or in XP.
DX 9.0 is such a different beast then DX10 or DX11 that it resides peacefully with both of them. Again, though, this doesn't mean the latest video drivers are happy with your choice of cards. Your video card is not a monster by any stretch, and though it runs your other games faster, NWN2 is (in)famous for being really hard on graphics cards due to the advanced shading they used. (And the sloppy code, truth be told -- though that's less on developers per se than it is on getting some cooperative standardization in video graphics processing by the bigger makers. That's a whole 'nother ball o'wax, though.)
And I really understand your desire to be rid of the craptastic advice that's always the same, but sometimes, maybe it's all the same because you're not really listening anymore, either. It's easy to tune out someone you think isn't going to provide you with that magic bullet. It's easy to also miss pearls of information because the rest has just become blah blah blah...
Hang in there and try using some OLDER graphics drivers specifically listed as being for your card. There is a thread in the sticky topics about this, but I honestly don't recall which one it might be in. You could look into the linked sections and see if there's something directly about video drivers. I'm pretty sure I put links in one of them to direct you to either ATI or Nvidia. I'm sorry, so much data passes through my pea brain that I cannot recall exactly which one it's in.
Hang in there and welcome to the forums, please be advised that the latest edict from on high is that we must refrain from being overly "intense" (I guess -- I just know I'm gonna get banned someday) in our criticisms of others and we must never, never ever say "Bad Things"™ with respect to the developers, The Game, Production Houses, homeless people, etc.
See? Wall of text as punishment.
dno
I cannot understand, even remotely, why you'd be running it in a VM in the first place.
Quick story. When I was in the Air Force fixing radios, I would sometimes hit a wall in my troubleshooting where I just couldn't figure out what to do or check next. I'd call into the shop from the planes (I worked on big honking cargo planes) and ask for help.
I'd then go on to explain what I'd done so far -- and you know what those older, more experienced guys would tell me? They'd tell me to go back and check all the things I just told them I checked. I hated it. But I endured it, because I realized that if I just kept at it and waited it out, sooner or later, they'd spit something out that I could use. So I'd sit there at the radio, in the cockpit, pretending to do all those other things until they'd say something I hadn't done.
But you gotta be willing to subrogate yourself and be patient. Having read your initial post, I can honestly tell you that if you really wanna get it to run in Win7, and the fonts are messed up, the only logical answer is video drivers. Especially if you had it running in XP and in Win8. (Of course, you could do yourself a favor and just friggin' dump Win7, but that might not be practical in your case.)
Sometimes, the latest video drivers for a maker are not for all video cards they make and occasionally the revision notes will inform you that some cards are definitely not supposed to use the new drivers or that the new drivers won't support some functions. Just because the latest drivers work in Win8 (which I hear good things mostly in regard to it) doesn't mean those same drivers will do the trick in Win7 or in XP.
DX 9.0 is such a different beast then DX10 or DX11 that it resides peacefully with both of them. Again, though, this doesn't mean the latest video drivers are happy with your choice of cards. Your video card is not a monster by any stretch, and though it runs your other games faster, NWN2 is (in)famous for being really hard on graphics cards due to the advanced shading they used. (And the sloppy code, truth be told -- though that's less on developers per se than it is on getting some cooperative standardization in video graphics processing by the bigger makers. That's a whole 'nother ball o'wax, though.)
And I really understand your desire to be rid of the craptastic advice that's always the same, but sometimes, maybe it's all the same because you're not really listening anymore, either. It's easy to tune out someone you think isn't going to provide you with that magic bullet. It's easy to also miss pearls of information because the rest has just become blah blah blah...
Hang in there and try using some OLDER graphics drivers specifically listed as being for your card. There is a thread in the sticky topics about this, but I honestly don't recall which one it might be in. You could look into the linked sections and see if there's something directly about video drivers. I'm pretty sure I put links in one of them to direct you to either ATI or Nvidia. I'm sorry, so much data passes through my pea brain that I cannot recall exactly which one it's in.
Hang in there and welcome to the forums, please be advised that the latest edict from on high is that we must refrain from being overly "intense" (I guess -- I just know I'm gonna get banned someday) in our criticisms of others and we must never, never ever say "Bad Things"™ with respect to the developers, The Game, Production Houses, homeless people, etc.
See? Wall of text as punishment.
dno
#31
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 07:32
Dann-J
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The sad fact is that with each new video card model or driver update, the chance of NWN2 *not* working well on your particular machine increases. I've stuck with Nvidia cards for years largely because NWN2 seems to have been designed with them in mind - however recently every time I've updated computers and/or drivers the performance of the game has decreased.
For a while there, newer video cards and drivers were playing the game better than ever. However it seems that the newer cards and drivers that are optimised for DirectX 11 just don't seem to like NWN2. It's unlikely that the designers of new video drivers will go out of their way to make them backwards-compatible with 'old' games.
For a while there, newer video cards and drivers were playing the game better than ever. However it seems that the newer cards and drivers that are optimised for DirectX 11 just don't seem to like NWN2. It's unlikely that the designers of new video drivers will go out of their way to make them backwards-compatible with 'old' games.
#32
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 08:57
Alupinu
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Didn’t get a chance to read all the comments above but let me tell you my experience with the graphic situation.
It seems to be a baking problem, in other words the textures don’t seem to be getting baked properly with the newer cards.
I have two computers an older one that I use for surfing the web and my new machine which is my primary building computer. My new computer has new video cards, Nvidia GTX 550TI and Windows 7. My older computer is Windows XP with an Nvidia 7600 GS.
I have noticed if I build with my new computer and bake the exterior areas, the areas don’t behave. But if I take those same areas and bake again with my old xp computer then the areas bake and behave fine even on my new win7 computer.
I don’t know if this really means anything or I anybody cares but I thought I’d throw it out there.
It seems to be a baking problem, in other words the textures don’t seem to be getting baked properly with the newer cards.
I have two computers an older one that I use for surfing the web and my new machine which is my primary building computer. My new computer has new video cards, Nvidia GTX 550TI and Windows 7. My older computer is Windows XP with an Nvidia 7600 GS.
I have noticed if I build with my new computer and bake the exterior areas, the areas don’t behave. But if I take those same areas and bake again with my old xp computer then the areas bake and behave fine even on my new win7 computer.
I don’t know if this really means anything or I anybody cares but I thought I’d throw it out there.
Modifié par Alupinu, 31 mars 2012 - 09:57 .
#33
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 10:46
Dann-J
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Alupinu - that's exactly what happened to me when I moved to a new PC. Areas baked on the old PC behaved themselves, but anything I create on the new PC exhibits the dreaded Nvidia normal map bug.
I've since found the solution to the bug though (at least, for module creators). If you make sure each terrain tile has at least five textures in it then the problem never seems to occur. Even if you put a couple of dabs of different textures where they can't be seen.
I've since found the solution to the bug though (at least, for module creators). If you make sure each terrain tile has at least five textures in it then the problem never seems to occur. Even if you put a couple of dabs of different textures where they can't be seen.
Modifié par DannJ, 01 avril 2012 - 10:49 .
#34
Posté 02 avril 2012 - 12:09
Alupinu
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DannJ wrote...
I've since found the solution to the bug though (at least, for module creators). If you make sure each terrain tile has at least five textures in it then the problem never seems to occur. Even if you put a couple of dabs of different textures where they can't be seen.
How much does 5 textures effect the FR's? My area's being very object intesive, exspecaily tree's so I worry about these things.
Modifié par Alupinu, 03 avril 2012 - 11:12 .
#35
Posté 02 avril 2012 - 05:25
Dann-J
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I don't think terrain textures contribute nearly as much to reducing frame rates as models do (especially non-environmental ones). The game engine restricts terrain tiles to no more than six textures - that might be a deliberate limit to prevent FR issues.
I've found that even placing a small dab of a different texture somewhere discrete tends to remove the normal map problem. For some reason five textures per terrain tile seems to be the magic number. I systematically bumped up the number of textures one tile at a time in a problem area, and every time I rebaked the normal map issue was gone from that tile (but still present in tiles with less than five or more than one texture). So far my experiments have found:
1 texture = no normal map issues
2 textures = very rare normal map issues
3 or 4 textures = a good chance of normal map issues
5 or 6 textures = no normal map issues
I'd be interested to hear whether this is also the case for other people who also have Nvidia normal map bugs.
I've found that even placing a small dab of a different texture somewhere discrete tends to remove the normal map problem. For some reason five textures per terrain tile seems to be the magic number. I systematically bumped up the number of textures one tile at a time in a problem area, and every time I rebaked the normal map issue was gone from that tile (but still present in tiles with less than five or more than one texture). So far my experiments have found:
1 texture = no normal map issues
2 textures = very rare normal map issues
3 or 4 textures = a good chance of normal map issues
5 or 6 textures = no normal map issues
I'd be interested to hear whether this is also the case for other people who also have Nvidia normal map bugs.
#36
Posté 03 avril 2012 - 06:27
NWN DM
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No, people are treating you like you're an ass because that's how you're acting.SabaOra wrote...
It's not so much argueing i'm seeing as it's just generaly people treating me like I'm stupid and don't know ANYTHING about what I'm doing. Going to forums is litteraly a last resort for me and always has been becuase i tend to be able to figure it out on my own one way or another. What bothers me is that this issue apperes to be unique becuase I couldn't find anyone with the same or a similar issue
You come into the forum with a negative attitude, expecting people to take time out of their day to help, and then conduct yourself in an argumentative manner.
Not a recipe for success, but I guess that's probably everyone else's problem not yours.
