373 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravennus]

Geist.H wrote...

Mattock X = 200%
Vindicator X = 200%
Phaeston X = 200%
Falcon X = 170%
Saber X = 157% estimationon on a 5% bonus per rank basis.

Mantis X = 180%
Raptor X = 180%
Widow X = 80%
Black Widow X = 75 % estimation on a 5% per rank basis

The Mattock is all that matters anyway.

I believe that Tech Armor increases your >actual level of weight< by 80/50%, meanin that if you have no weight at all, it increases 0, so nothing.

It could mean that the game's tooltip is wrong or that Turian racial weight bonuses are bugged, I dunno, what I can tell you is that it works.

Hmmm... well I'm still of the opinion that Tech Armor still DOES increase cooldowns, but by such a tiny TINY amount (due to the aforementioned dimishing returns) that it's VERY hard to notice in actual gameplay.

[Ravennus]

RamsenC wrote...

I've mentioned this before, but it hasn't shown up in this thread so I'll mention it again :

Cryo Falcon + Overload + Turian Weight Reduction = best CC class in the game

On top of that you can set up or finish explosions with warp. Respec out tech armor.

Sounds like a lot of fun!  I've love to try this out too.... and it seems like a valid reason to dump Tech Armor, as the Falcon is pretty heavy already.

Too bad we couldn't have mutliple builds at the same time..... well, except for humans which I guess can have two.


PETITION FOR FEMALE TURIANS!!!!

[RamsenC]

I believe it increases the amount of weight by a static value. If you have 200% cooldowns you now have 120%. The tool tip isn't going to give you values with TA activated.

[Geist.H]

The other highlight of this is that even with other power-heavy classes (Asari Adept), you don't NEED to have that 200% cooldown. Experiment a little. Take that Mattock or lower-level Carnifex and tear it up!
My bet is that as long as you keep your cooldown bonus above 150%, you won't notice much difference in your ability to spam powers.... and you'll have a much better weapon as a result.

You know that the mattock is meant to be a medium-heavy, powerful weapon right ? The point it to take it on top of a buff that is meant to slow your cooldowns, but doesnt in the end.

Turian Sentinel with TA, Mattock X >and< Carnifex X = 170% CD.

It's not the fact that you reach 200% CD that is important, it's the fact that you can wield a heavy weapon, or even two, on top of tech armor, and still have optimal CD. Why you fail to understand that this is tremendously useful and powerful, at least more than simply pumping fitness to 6 is beyond me.

Maybe Indoctrination...

I believe it increases the amount of weight by a static value. If you have 200% cooldowns you now have 120%. The tool tip isn't going to give you values with TA activated.

Nope, it shows as it does ingame, tested it. 

Build WITHOUT Tech Armor turned off = 4 seconds CD on overload.
Build WITH Tech Armor turned on = 4 seconds CD on overload using this build.
Build WITH Tech Armor turned off = 4 seconds CD on overload using this build.

Just quit repeating what every poor tester claimed so far on this forum and see for yourselves, test the build, I won't turn crazy, you will stop wasting your time.

Modifié par Geist.H, 30 mars 2012 - 10:45 .

[Kenaras]

Geist.H wrote...
Ingame cooldown on overload with TA off = 4 seconds.
Ingame cooldown on overload with TA on = 4 seconds.

You keep posting this, and complaining that people can't read.  I can read it fine, I'm just having trouble believing you.  My in-game cooldown of Overload with Tech Armor off was roughly 2.33s, tested with a stopwatch.  This lines up pretty well with the 2.29s cooldown listed on the power screen.  I have no idea how you're getting a 4s cooldown with +200% recharge speed and Tech Armor off, but it sure isn't what I'm getting.

I'm not specced for Assault Rifles in Turian Veteran, so I'm not going to comment on whether there's a bug with that skill as it relates to Tech Armor; it's not worth wasting promotions and/or respec cards to test it.  However, if everything is working as it should, your cooldowns should be as follows:

2.29s  Overload, with rank 5 Recharge Speed and without Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25+0.25))
2.46s  Warp or Overload without Recharge Speed and without Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25))
2.67s  Overload, with rank 5 Recharge Speed and rank 6 Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25+0.25-0.5))
2.91s  Warp or Overload without Recharge Speed and with rank 6 Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25-0.5))

I've verified that these numbers are properly reflected in-game, through use of a stopwatch.

If you're getting 4s cooldowns in-game, something is seriously wrong with your character - and it's increasing your cooldowns, not decreasing them.

Modifié par Kenaras, 30 mars 2012 - 10:46 .

[Ravennus]

Geist.H wrote...

The other highlight of this is that even with other power-heavy classes (Asari Adept), you don't NEED to have that 200% cooldown. Experiment a little. Take that Mattock or lower-level Carnifex and tear it up!
My bet is that as long as you keep your cooldown bonus above 150%, you won't notice much difference in your ability to spam powers.... and you'll have a much better weapon as a result.

You know that the mattock is meant to be a medium-heavy, powerful weapon right ? The point it to take it on top of a buff that is meant to slow your cooldowns, but doesnt in the end.

Turian Sentinel with TA, Mattock X >and< Carnifex X = 170% CD.

It's not the fact that you reach 200% CD that is important, it's the fact that you can wield a heavy weapon, or even two, on top of tech armor, and still have optimal CD. Why you fail to understand that this is tremendously useful and powerful, at least more than simply pumping fitness to 6 is beyond me.

Maybe Indoctrination...

Erm..... I'm confused now. 

I'm actually totally with you.  I think you misundertood my post.  
I wasn't talking about Turian Sentinals, or anybody with Tech Armor.

LOTS OF SPECULATION? 

[adamjmorgan]

Geist.H wrote...

Maybe Indoctrination...

Seriously.  People (with some exceptions) are not even attempting 

to understand, or are just really, really thick.

People, for the love of God, read the words.  They are the truth, and confirmed to work, independently, by me, and several others.  

Please, think of the Turian children.

[RamsenC]

You are jumping through a lot of hoops to get that 20% power damage bonus, which isn't that great. Nothing else TA offers is of use compared to fitness.

[Geist.H]

2.29s Overload, with rank 5 Recharge Speed and without Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25+0.25))
2.46s Warp or Overload without Recharge Speed and without Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25))
2.67s Overload, with rank 5 Recharge Speed and rank 6 Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25+0.25-0.5))
2.91s Warp or Overload without Recharge Speed and with rank 6 Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25-0.5))

Now that is constructive feedback, I will investigate. I'm just counting up through the cooldown, letme grab my wris****ch.

[Geist.H]

You are jumping through a lot of hoops to get that 20% power damage bonus, which isn't that great. Nothing else TA offers is of use compared to fitness.

Why take fitness 6 when you can get the SAME tankiness, WITH 20% more power, BETTER weapons AND the AoE ?

Tested with pocket watch, my counting was waaaaay off:

TOOLTIP CD on Overload/Warp/Armor: 2,46 seconds.
Ingame CD with and without Tech Armor : 2,5ish seconds.

It works, thank you for the correction.

Modifié par Geist.H, 30 mars 2012 - 10:54 .

[Crimzoneyed]

The only good tech armor explosion ever have done for me is killing swarmers.

[killacwalka3]

Kenaras wrote...

Geist.H wrote...
Ingame cooldown on overload with TA off = 4 seconds.
Ingame cooldown on overload with TA on = 4 seconds.

You keep posting this, and complaining that people can't read.  I can read it fine, I'm just having trouble believing you.  My in-game cooldown of Overload with Tech Armor off was roughly 2.33s, tested with a stopwatch.  This lines up pretty well with the 2.29s cooldown listed on the power screen.  I have no idea how you're getting a 4s cooldown with +200% recharge speed and Tech Armor off, but it sure isn't what I'm getting.

I'm not specced for Assault Rifles in Turian Veteran, so I'm not going to comment on whether there's a bug with that skill as it relates to Tech Armor; it's not worth wasting promotions and/or respec cards to test it.  However, if everything is working as it should, your cooldowns should be as follows:

2.29s  Overload, with rank 5 Recharge Speed and without Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25+0.25))
2.46s  Warp or Overload without Recharge Speed and without Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25))
2.67s  Overload, with rank 5 Recharge Speed and rank 6 Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25+0.25-0.5))
2.91s  Warp or Overload without Recharge Speed and with rank 6 Tech Armor (8s/(1+2+0.25-0.5))

If you're getting 4s cooldowns in-game, something is seriously wrong with your character - and it's increasing your cooldowns, not decreasing them.

This is correct. The difference will be too small to time on even seconds. Tech armor level six will add around half a second to most powers.

And tech armor has no affect on weight from what I saw in the coding. It appears to be a direct multiplier on the final cooldown variable. If they would have programmed it as a weight modifier it would have cut down on a little bit of data though.

Modifié par killacwalka3, 30 mars 2012 - 10:53 .

[RamsenC]

Geist.H wrote...

You are jumping through a lot of hoops to get that 20% power damage bonus, which isn't that great. Nothing else TA offers is of use compared to fitness.

Why take fitness 6 when you can get the SAME tankiness, WITH 20% more power, BETTER weapons AND the AoE ?

Because I don't agree with half of those things

Overload has a low cooldown. Check numbers with Warp. 

Modifié par RamsenC, 30 mars 2012 - 10:54 .

[Geist.H]

You dont agree because you do not have tested it.

Modifié par Geist.H, 30 mars 2012 - 10:55 .

[Ravennus]

Geist.H wrote...

You are jumping through a lot of hoops to get that 20% power damage bonus, which isn't that great. Nothing else TA offers is of use compared to fitness.

Why take fitness 6 when you can get the SAME tankiness, WITH 20% more power, BETTER weapons AND the AoE ?

I agree with everything except the better weapons part.  I think that's a wash.... or you could afford better weapons WITHOUT the Tech Armor.

I seriously don't understand how you could get better weapons with Rank 6 TA vs. Rank 6 Fitness.....


I love your build, and I'm a big Sentinal fan myself... and I agree that Tech Armor is better than a lot of people think, and that the recharge penalty isn't as painful as it appears. I truly do appreciate you posting your info and the work you have put into it.

However, I disagree that TA will not effect your cooldowns at all.
It will,  but if you build properly then it will be so negligable as to be almost unnoticeable during normal gameplay.

Dimishing returns, as I said.  You can see the math by just flipping between the power and weapon screen and seeing the difference of 150% recharge bonus and 200% recharge bonus.
There is a difference, sure, but it's likely a tiny FRACTION of a second.

Now go from 200% to 100% and you'll see a much larger difference.  Way more if you go from 200% to 50% or 0%.
Get where I'm going with this? 

[Geist.H]

However, I disagree that TA will not effect your cooldowns at all.
It will, but if you build properly then it will be so negligable as to be almost unnoticeable during normal gameplay.

Stop talking and go test it. 200% is reached with the best weapon I want to use, it could be 170 or 180% I don't care, the point is = You get awesome CD, TA or not.

Modifié par Geist.H, 30 mars 2012 - 10:59 .

[Kenaras]

By the way, if you're interested in how durability compares:

825 health, 1238 shields:  Rank 6 Fitness, no Tech Armor (500*1.65, 750*1.65)
893 health, 1339 shields:  Rank 3 Fitness, 30% Tech Armor (500*1.25/(1-0.3), 750*1.25/(1-0.3))
1000 health, 1500 shields, Rank 4 Fitness, 30% Tech Armor (500*1.4/(1-0.3), 750*1.4/(1-0.3))

Modifié par Kenaras, 30 mars 2012 - 11:32 .

[Geist.H]

And somehow "fitness is better..." I see a 1,4 multiplier in your Tech Armor formula however, the builds requires to spec it only for 30% damage reduction. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding it, I'm not the math-type.

Modifié par Geist.H, 30 mars 2012 - 11:04 .

[Ravennus]

Geist.H wrote...

However, I disagree that TA will not effect your cooldowns at all.
It will, but if you build properly then it will be so negligable as to be almost unnoticeable during normal gameplay.

Stop talking and go test it. 200% is reached with the best weapon I want to use, it could be 170 or 180% I don't care, the point is = You get awesome CD, TA or not.

Ok, I started off being on your side and backing you up... and now you are talking down to me? WTF man?

WE ARE SAYING THE EXACT SAME GOSHDARN THING!!!
(if you bothered to understand my posts, which you are ironically accusing everyone else of not doing to your own)


My only critique (which I was trying to be constructive about), is that it's a bit false to say that it makes NO difference in cooldowns.  That's simply not true and is a  bit misleading, perhaps unintentional.

As I've said many times.... it DOES affect your cooldowns, but to such a MINOR degree that your likely WON'T EVEN NOTICE.

Sheesh.


EDIT: Maybe the area where we are confusing each other is the weapon weight screen.

You keep saying you get 200% recharge bonus, even with TA.
I get that. Congrats!  I have that too!
But the problem is that Tech Armor's recharge penalty does NOT reflect on that screen.
There is no way to TURN TECH ARMOR ON when viewing the stats of your character to accurately reflect the impact it will have on your cooldowns.

If with Rank 6 Tech Armor it shows your Overload rechargin at 2.29 sec, it will show the exact same even if you had no ranks in TA.

The difference is when you actually get in the game and turn TA on.
BUT, as I said, if your cooldown is ALREADY at 200%.... that -50% doesn't make much of a dent.
At most it's maybe 0.2 seconds added to the cooldown, which you can't accurately measure without some type of program.

Hell, using your stopwatch as you've said.... you'll get variances in times of just how fast you can press the button on your watch or how quick your reaction time is.  These variances could vary from 0.2 seconds to even half a second.  It will not be the same every time.

We are talking about FRACTIONS of a second here.
I'm sorry, but unless you were EDI, you could not accurately time a 2.29 second cooldown with perfect accuracy everytime.


But again, this is pointless arguing.  We are saying the same thing!
Tech Armor is awesome!  It's not as bad as people think!  It's doesn't kill your cooldowns!  Yay!!

Can't we all just get along.....?  

Modifié par Ravennus, 30 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[Father Alvito]

Geist.H wrote...

Mattock X > Hornet.

Wrong.  In a balanced headshot-centric game, a gun with an initial crosshairs that is not pinpoint is simply unacceptable.  The gun does not deal enough damage from body shots and does not reliably headshot at anything beyond short range, at least on my PC.

We've known this since Counter-Strike released.

The only reason that the original Falcon violated this rule was because it deals AoE damage and the enemies spawn and path predictably.

[Geist.H]

Well sorry, I'm just getting tired of people going "NO, TA SUX I KNOW IT" without even bothering. Let's dig the fitness/TA reduction part now, shall we ?

Wrong. In a balanced headshot-centric game, a gun with an initial crosshairs that is not pinpoint is simply unacceptable. The gun does not deal enough damage from body shots and does not reliably headshot at anything beyond short range, at least on my PC.

We've known this since Counter-Strike released.

I have no issue scoring headshot at long range with Mattock X. Just get a Scope and the problem is solved anyway if that is an issue for you. Also the hornet has recoil and fires burst, the mattock does not and shoot as you clic, it is more efficient, accurate and powerful.

it's like saying that the burst mode FAMAS is better than a M4 or AK7 for long range headshots if you wanna go Counter Strike.

Modifié par Geist.H, 30 mars 2012 - 11:10 .

[TSCIGAR]

Geist- his formula for health-shields (the 1.4) is referring to the health/shields bonus you get from Fitness 3 (I think). But that's actually the bonus from Fitness 4. Fitness 3 gives you 25% bonus to health and shields.

[Geist.H]

Geist- his formula for health-shields (the 1.4) is referring to the health/shields bonus you get from Fitness 3 (I think). But that's actually the bonus from Fitness 4. Fitness 3 gives you 25% bonus to health and shields.

All the better since it proves me right anyway, as I said I'm not the math type =p.

Seriously. People (with some exceptions) are not even attempting

to understand, or are just really, really thick.

People, for the love of God, read the words. They are the truth, and confirmed to work, independently, by me, and several others.

Please, think of the Turian children.

Thank you, I missed your post, fighting against the oddds !

Modifié par Geist.H, 30 mars 2012 - 11:13 .

[Ravennus]

Geist.H wrote...

Well sorry, I'm just getting tired of people going "NO, TA SUX I KNOW IT" without even bothering. Let's dig the fitness/TA reduction part now, shall we ?

When have I ever said that?
I've defended TA this entire time.


Oh, and I edited my previous post to reflect where I think our lines are getting crossed 

[TSCIGAR]

Well, his point was actually that the TA gives you more durability. So he was trying to prove you right. But it doesn't fit your build, because his numbers rely on Fitness 4 (if I'm reading them right, again). I believe with Fitness 3 it actually comes out to 892.85 effective health and 1339.29 effective shields, using his formula. Which is still more, however I'm not so practiced a theorycrafter to say absolutely this is how the bonuses are applied in the game. It's how I would assume it works, and how I would do it if someone asked me, but that doesn't mean it's right.