110 réponses à ce sujet

[Dogar]

Any progress? I was looking forward to this

[painofdungeoneternal]

ehye_khandee wrote...

Um, please don't derail the thread. This is about neverwinterconnections and has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR EXE HACK.

Thank you but no thanks. I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE CHANGE THE EXE FILES TO GET FUNCTIONALITY.
.....
WARNING TO EVERYONE BENT ON CHANGING THE EXES - unless I miss my estimate here, YOU WILL END UP FRAGMENTING THE COMMUNITY BY SENDING PART OF THE DATA ONE PLACE AND PART OF IT TO ANOTHER. THIS HELPS HOW?

I'd say the thread derailed with this, even if it's an old thread, not with skywings comments, i am frankly just stunned at how you describe things, and the heavy use of caps - are you actually yelling, but i hope to get this thread back on track.

Your comments show an unwillingness to consider new things ( or even understand old things), and show a need to listen and ask more questions before you go on the attack and fly off the handle. I know it's the internet and all, but would you talk like this to someone else face to face in real life. I basically try to remove people like that from my life, its just not worth dealing with, but in the forums it has a cost, the people who are contributing things, rely on positive forum feedback to support their hard work on developing tools, and when they have to deal with comments like this, well it tends to make them leave. Can NWN1 or NWN2 really afford to lose any developer? I think not.

Skywing is generally a behind the scenes quiet guy, but most people who do develop anything on a computer rely on him for his in depth knowledge of both NWN1 and NWN2, and I don't think any other game has a resource with as much expertise as he has, and deserving of much more respect just based on his contributions he's made to the overall community. When he offers comments, it's generally literally game changing, and the folks who are pushing the edges of what you can do in NWN1 and NWN2, you'd be surprised at how many of them are getting advice from him.

Generally when i face a problem that is beyond me, he responds with a word or two, and I have no idea what he is talking about and it seems not to be related. But i google it, spend 3 weeks learning what he mentioned, and I realize he was so far ahead of my thinking, that i just could not understand him yet.

If he leaves this community, well that is going to adversely affect the future of both NWN1 and NWN2, he's probably one of the most important individuals to the success of this community, and i would have already given up on both games if it was not for him, I mean what is the point if your server crashes every 15 minutes.

A. Regarding the EXE modifications - The client extension he is discussing is only for NWN2, and it's just about universally used if you prefer to avoid NWN2 crashing, or running faster, or being stable, or making it so you can default to walking instead of running and not use stealth to move at normal speed. This does not modify the EXE, it actually modifies the running game process, and it's not a trivial hack, you need to try it. Unlike NWN1 we never got a 1.69 patch, and skywing is capable of actually providing patches to the game which are desparately needed. While the devs were doing patches he worked with the devs, and was able to get the patches into the released game. First for the server with xp_bugfix, but after seeing major network issues he made the client changes replace how the client communicates. Basically a PW ends up being more stable and can handle more players with his fixes, even the issue with 2 players from the same LAN won't make every account on the server get random bic's in it. Basically it's already in general usage, so it's not going to split anything up. ( and you should see the DM options he's added, and the stand alone client that lets you log in as a DM while you are logged in as a player at the same time )

B. Further about modifying EXE's, Modification of the game process ( via NWNx ) is how PW's run and is generally accepted. It is what allowed the community of PW admins to make this a community game despite bioware, and how we get features added to the game. Again this is universally used if you want to add in advanced features. The NWN2 client extension does this as well, and it's not some script kiddy hack, this is someone who is a top level programmer who was respected by the folks at Obsidian, who has actual symbol files given to him by obsidian which let him see every detail in the game, whose patches fix so many issues that refusing to use his xp_bugfix and client extension will have measurably more crashes, is slower, and causes issues for PW admins. I don't think this is needed for NWN1 to the same degree, but for NWN2 it's just not an option not to use it.

C. The soon to be released NWNCX feature made by virusman, is going to use skywings infrastructure. It will list all the PW's on it. And just like NWNx it modifies the game process, NOT THE EXE file. I would not be surprised if this supports both linux and windows. And it's a choice by the player. It is not required to make this all work, but we are at the point where we need to fix gamespy, and add new features to the game client if we are to actually move forward. Quite a few issues in NWN2 actually also exist in NWN1, and unless we get a 1.70 patch, the only way to fix them is via patching the game process.

All of the above relate to NWNx, and are developed by NWNx developers who work together, which is central to all NWN PW's, and which provides persistence via access to real databases and so much more. I guess you could use the in game database, but if you are you probably just don't know better, like everything, this is your choice, but I'd imagine the PW's using NWNx are going to end up with more features than those without, and end up lasting longer because of it.

D. Gamespy is down, there are six ways to deal with it. All the ideas discussed are variations on these and just about all of it splits things up in too many ways.

• Just don't play  multiplayer, or keep entries in your history. This means the game is going to die or is just a SP game. ( frankly i like rubbing shoulders with SP and MP folks all together )
• Re-aim the OS to send gamespy communications to a new server, and recreate gamespy, this will also mess up any other games that use gamespy, but those can forward to gamespy. While this sounds great, I am pretty sure a cease and desist letter will show up since gamespy owns the rights to it's system which you are copying without their approval. ( and looking at luigi's site who has all the info on it, the lawyers do pay attention so good luck on that. )
• Modify the actual exe file to aim at a new server. However if a person has a patched EXE file ( ie no cd, or other mod ) this won't work with it, or might be buggy. You still need a central server, and then why would the data have to be in gamespy format if you got things this far, instead you should use an open data exchange method.
• Modify the game after it starts, just like NWNx modifies the service. This is what NWNCX does. This does not fix the central server, but it does let you fix the in game pw listings to use a data source of your choice. Frankly gamespy is not an open format, nor is it efficient, nor is it well documented, moving to a new format just makes sense.
• Put the pw list on a stand alone app, and have it launch the game via +connect ( i am doing an app that does this, which is needed for mac users who cannot use NWNx )
• Put the pw list on a website, players can use it to find the game to play on. ( this sounds like what your site is made for, and why this comment belongs in this thread )

Now lets take a step back, the first 3 are clearly wrong. The second two assume we HAVE to use gamespy, but the fact is we don't actually have to use gamespy which is a closed method of communication, it would be preferred to use an open method.

First, Getting the in game server list working is clearly needed, touching the exe file is not going to fly, but making it change in memory right after it starts, well that really gives an option to the player. And the fact it's using SOAP to do this is actually faster than how it was doing it before via gamespy and pinging all the servers for player counts ( assuming it worked similar to how i implemented it prior to gamespy being shut off and how luigi documented it )

Second, having a stand alone app is a great idea. Makes it easy, and if you don't want to touch the exe file, great.

Third having it on a website, ie like http://www.nwnlist.com/ - we can find addresses.

As for the central data source. We have NWNx plugins, those are great solution, PW admins already use them. Further we can use a web service post to notify the central server ( via PHP or whatever ) when the server is up or where it's located. And since it's open, anyone can develop new means of updating it. And the NWNx folks who are doing it, well NWNx has always been a vital part of PW's in nwn1 and nwn2, why not have their team be behind the fix for gamespy going away, they already are modding the server process which is exactly the thing being listed.

You claimed this splits up the community, but all three options use the SAME data source, the SOAP allows any client program to use it regardless of OS. The data source can be kept up to date via NWNx plugins, or the PW can send SOAP messages telling the central server their status ( or those using the extender who direct connect can also notify the central server, and the central server can monitor those ip's ) Further custom additions can be done to add PW's that refuse to join, making this universal.

Now in you post, you go on a rant about SOAP like its a bad thing, and how your web server is not a server ( that was kind of confusing ), and someting about how you don't use windows, and how you do ALL your own code. Frankly this seems more like anger, and as a long time web developer, this just does not make me think you really understand what is being discussed, or how web sites are developed in this day and age, perhaps you are aiming at setting up a system to track PWs you are doing yourself, but frankly I'd prefer you choose instead to work with the community and what is already working. Your server and your programmers just won't be able to compete with an open system, which is already so far along in development the problem is actually solved, and the solution is being back ported to support NWN1.

Now I am looking at the results from this server, and i am doing this on a mac using a program I wrote that pulls data from what Skywing wrote. ( my program is off topic and i have another thread on it, if you care ). I see 328 players on 91 servers for NWN2 right now. On NWN1 I see 879 players on 189 servers. How many NWN1 pw's do you think there are at this point, I can't imagine that is not already taking dominent market share, despite the fact that most people seem to be still trying to figure out what should be done, or how to recreate the gamespy servers.

I got this list on a mac, in a program I wrote to launch NWN1 and connect to any of those servers by hitting the play button. I did this via using a open web service and it has critical mass in NWN2, and definitely has heavy usage in NWN1. So if you do something else, you will move servers out of the above central list into another central list so we have 2 lists, or get all the servers refusing to join this list - this sounds more like splitting up things. Or perhaps it's a split between NWN1 and NWN2 which is desired, because this is working in NWN2, and the game client lists all the PWs and NWNx communicates with his Soap service. Or perhaps it's by OS, If i couldn't use skywings service, i'd have to make my own list just for mac users since absolutely no ideas discussed here help our minority group except for skywings. Most things in this community are done by standing on the shoulders of others prior efforts.

A web service is used by real web sites, because it is generally understood that it is better for each web site to specialize in a single area and integrate other websites where they do it better, than to do everything yourself. Smart programmers integrate multiple api's and do some amazing things. For example, if you see maps on a web site, it's generally using the google maps service, and the developer is still developing, he's just able to work smarter using the what google has provided, and making something neither that developer nor google could have done on their own.

SOAP is not a windows thing, it's actually fully open, W3C specification, and further is just a way of exchanging data which works on any OS, and I don't think there is a internet company that does not provide or use an API in this day and age, but the term SOAP, or REST or Web Service, all of them exchange XML or JSON data, even AJAX and allow you to do things like buy things with your credit card, all of them are just API's which allow you to work together with other website. I am planning on my own fully open data sources via web services, utilizing data on custom content and patches, and closely integrated with the vault preservation project. The hope in my doing this, is that if I can develop sources of raw data - ie a searchable list of single player modules which is tightly integrated with the vault and the nexus, and that the community can take the baton and take this further than i can imagine, and we can all move further ahead by working as a community. ( and you could use this API list the modules which are good for running events )

And lets get back to the point of the thread -- and yes this is actually on topic, just not the direction you are aiming for here, rather I am trying to get your comments back on topic....

Why isn't a site named neverwinterconnections.com not willing to integrate live data on server status and helping players find a PW? Why can't you integrate this information into your matchmaking, listing empty servers, citing the current player count, keeping track of the player count during an event and the like. My mind is just over flowing with ways this could be used to "connect" what is going on in game, with what is posted on your site.

And further, ways you could work with skywing and others to add even more amazing features that integrate your site and the game itself. ( for example a nwnx plugin to send a message to your server when a bored dm is looking for player victims to do something with, where he can hit a button in game and it shows up on your sites front page )

Why can't you take this openly shared source of data, grab the baton and show how you can stand on the shoulders of others in the community and come up with something new and cool based on it? Skywing has already done the hard part, he's got a list of all the PW's which is dynamically up to date, and he is offering to let you integrate this information into your event listings.

And when some a renowned developer offers something he thinks is useful to your discussion, isn't there a more civil way to respond? We are actually all on the same side.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 02 février 2013 - 05:32 .

[Urk]

Not to interrupt, but I can't connect to NWC. Everything OK over there?

Edit: NM. Looks like you're back online.

Modifié par Urk, 04 février 2013 - 04:03 .

[ehye_khandee]

URK - the page for neverwinterconnections.com is responding here OK



To the off topic posters THANK YOU FOR YOUR OFF TOPIC POST. If you want to express such things, please start a new thread, but DO NOT DERAIL THIS POST.

Thank you for your foolish ignorance of my prior posted request and the forum rules against derailing threads.

I _will_ address your points in another thread.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA


FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO ASK ME IF I WILL USE THEIR WIDGET IN THE SITE REBUILD, DO IT IN A PRIVATE CHANNEL WHERE IT BELONGS.


My reply to the latest off topic interruption of this thread follows ... part 1


Recently, a thread I authored with a very specific purpose was derailed
by a users post offering that I should use their system in one that I am
rebuilding. Such offers belong in private as it does not directly
address the topic and does not need to be read by more than the person
who makes such decisions. If, however, you insist on making such
off-topic offers in my threads I will address them there.

Recently,
someone sought to give me public redress for the offense they took to
my position of maintaining ON TOPIC thread posts. Rather than further
derail the original thread, I am addressing their rant here.

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

ehye_khandee wrote...

Um, please don't derail the thread. This is about neverwinterconnections and has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR EXE HACK.

Thank you but no thanks. I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE CHANGE THE EXE FILES TO GET FUNCTIONALITY.
.....
WARNING
TO EVERYONE BENT ON CHANGING THE EXES - unless I miss my estimate here,
YOU WILL END UP FRAGMENTING THE COMMUNITY BY SENDING PART OF THE DATA
ONE PLACE AND PART OF IT TO ANOTHER. THIS HELPS HOW?

I'd
say the thread derailed with this, even if it's an old thread, not with
skywings comments, i am frankly just stunned at how you describe
things, and the heavy use of caps - are you actually yelling, but i hope
to get this thread back on track.

I have no idea
what five periods in succession are intended to mean, three usually
indicate an omission - this particular strangely designated omission
rather slants the view of the post. Below is the full text of my reply
which indicates TECHINCAL reasons such as 'WE DO NOT USE SOAP' on
neverwinterconnections.com code.

FULL TEXT ehye_khandee wrote...
Um, please don't derail the thread. This is about neverwinterconnections and has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR EXE HACK.

Thank you but no thanks. I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE CHANGE THE EXE FILES TO GET FUNCTIONALITY.

As
for neverwinterconnections.com we write our own code. We do not use
SOAP in the neverwinterconnections.com web site. We don't even run
windows. Neverwinterconnections.com is not a server and does not run nwn
software at all. Needless to say, we also don't use nwnx in any form.

Your
post has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH NEVERWINTERCONNECTION.COM nor
this thread. While your offer would have been welcomed had it come by
private channels, what you are doing here is derailing the thread.
PLEASE REMOVE YOUR OFF TOPIC MATERIAL as I do not want to be thought to
be endorsing your methods (altering the nwn exe files) - which I do not
endorse at all.

WARNING TO EVERYONE BENT ON CHANGING THE EXES -
unless I miss my estimate here, YOU WILL END UP FRAGMENTING THE
COMMUNITY BY SENDING PART OF THE DATA ONE PLACE AND PART OF IT TO
ANOTHER. THIS HELPS HOW?

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

Yes,
in this occasion I did address the points of the de-railer's post. Yet,
your take on that seems to go far afield as follows:

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
Your comments show an
unwillingness to consider new things ( or even understand old things),
and show a need to listen and ask more questions before you go on the
attack and fly off the handle. I know it's the internet and all, but
would you talk like this to someone else face to face in real life. I
basically try to remove people like that from my life, its just not
worth dealing with, but in the forums it has a cost, the people who are
contributing things, rely on positive forum feedback to support their
hard work on developing tools, and when they have to deal with comments
like this, well it tends to make them leave. Can NWN1 or NWN2 really
afford to lose any developer? I think not.

An
"unwillingness to consider new things"?  Not at all, my words indicate I
considered the offered item. For a fact I went to the fellows link and
READ about the thing. After having read about
it, I clearly indicate that the site neverwinterconnections.com does not
use SOAP nor NWNX, nor does it run nwserver.exe and THEREFORE cannot
make use of the offered API.

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
Skywing is generally a
behind the scenes quiet guy, but most people who do develop anything on
a computer rely on him for his in depth knowledge of both NWN1 and
NWN2, and I don't think any other game has a resource with as much
expertise as he has, and deserving of much more respect just based on
his contributions he's made to the overall community. When he offers
comments, it's generally literally game changing, and the folks who are
pushing the edges of what you can do in NWN1 and NWN2, you'd be
surprised at how many of them are getting advice from him.

Generally
when i face a problem that is beyond me, he responds with a word or
two, and I have no idea what he is talking about and it seems not to be
related. But i google it, spend 3 weeks learning what he mentioned, and I
realize he was so far ahead of my thinking, that i just could not
understand him yet.

If he leaves this community, well that is
going to adversely affect the future of both NWN1 and NWN2, he's
probably one of the most important individuals to the success of this
community, and i would have already given up on both games if it was not
for him, I mean what is the point if your server crashes every 15
minutes.

It is all well and good that your level of
comprehension and his are now illuminated in this relative fashion. It
has absolutely nothing to do with my post. Anyone who wants to offer me
use of their software should do so in a private message rather than
derail a thread intended for my very specific purposes. What you offer
here is totally off topic and would never have been posted had your
friend SkywingL sent his offer in a private message. SkywingL should
have sent it as a private message, but your contintued posts are
trollish attempts to derail the thread and provoke me.

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
A. Regarding the EXE modifications - The client
extension he is discussing is only for NWN2, and it's just about
universally used if you prefer to avoid NWN2 crashing, or running
faster, or being stable, or making it so you can default to walking
instead of running and not use stealth to move at normal speed. This
does not modify the EXE, it actually modifies the running game process,
and it's not a trivial hack, you need to try it. Unlike NWN1 we never
got a 1.69 patch, and skywing is capable of actually providing patches
to the game which are desparately needed. While the devs were doing
patches he worked with the devs, and was able to get the patches into
the released game. First for the server with xp_bugfix, but after seeing
major network issues he made the client changes replace how the client
communicates. Basically a PW ends up being more stable and can handle
more players with his fixes, even the issue with 2 players from the same
LAN won't make every account on the server get random bic's in it.
Basically it's already in general usage, so it's not going to split
anything up. ( and you should see the DM options he's added, and the
stand alone client that lets you log in as a DM while you are logged in
as a player at the same time )

Utterly irrelevant to the topic of rebuilding neverwinterconnections.com which is a web site, not a NWN2 server.

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
B. Further about modifying EXE's,
Modification of the game process ( via NWNx ) is how PW's run and is
generally accepted. It is what allowed the community of PW admins to
make this a community game despite bioware, and how we get features
added to the game. Again this is universally used if you want to add in
advanced features. The NWN2 client extension does this as well,
and it's not some script kiddy hack, this is someone who is a top level
programmer who was respected by the folks at Obsidian, who has actual
symbol files given to him by obsidian which let him see every detail in
the game, whose patches fix so many issues that refusing to use his
xp_bugfix and client extension will have measurably more crashes, is
slower, and causes issues for PW admins. I don't think this is needed
for NWN1 to the same degree, but for NWN2 it's just not an option not to
use it.

What is 'generally accepted' is not
important to me. I do not follow a crowd but make my own decisions based
on my own understanding and the situation as I evaluate it. We have
many 'advanced features' and we do not use NWNX. While it may be 'widely
used' it is far from ubiquitous. You heap too much credit upon NWNX,
NWN is a fantastic game and NWNX is not
required to make it run nor run well. My own server is stable, feature
rich and does not use NWNX, more it is 1337+ areas - so let's not talk
about stable for NWN (which it is when scripted and planned well). I
don't run NWN2, I run NWN only. Again ALL OF THIS is irrelevant to the
topic of rebuilding neverwinterconnections.com .

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
C. The soon to be released NWNCX feature made by
virusman, is going to use skywings infrastructure. It will list all the
PW's on it. And just like NWNx it modifies the game process, NOT THE EXE
file. I would not be surprised if this supports both linux and
windows. And it's a choice by the player. It is not required to make
this all work, but we are at the point where we need to fix gamespy, and
add new features to the game client if we are to actually move forward.
Quite a few issues in NWN2 actually also exist in NWN1, and unless we
get a 1.70 patch, the only way to fix them is via patching the game
process.

All of the above relate to NWNx, and are developed by
NWNx developers who work together, which is central to all NWN PW's, and
which provides persistence via access to real databases and so much
more. I guess you could use the in game database, but if you are you
probably just don't know better, like everything, this is your choice,
but I'd imagine the PW's using NWNx are going to end up with more
features than those without, and end up lasting longer because of it.

The
above is utterly unrelated to the rebuilding of
neverwinterconnections.com which is the topic of the thread you are
totally dis-respecting.  Your statements that NWNX is central to all
NWN PWs is utterly false. Telling me "you
probably just don't know better" clearly illuminates your lack of comprehension of my abilities and your trolling intent.

At this point I grow extremely weary of quoting all your material and having to state "this is off topic" ad nauseum. Still, I won't cut your post short in an attempt to prove MY point.

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
D.
Gamespy is down, there are six ways to deal with it. All the ideas
discussed are variations on these and just about all of it splits things
up in too many ways.

USE OF THE BULLET-LIST on this forum messes up the post input box terribly in my experience so the following will be quoted sans bullets. TO BE CONTINUED.

Modifié par ehye_khandee, 13 février 2013 - 02:48 .

[painofdungeoneternal]

I have learned in this community when someone who has been around for a awhile says try something, it is kind of wise to take a good look at it and learn it before you move on to something else, or reject it. And i stand by what I said.

I get that from Skywing alot. He is a bit ahead of me quite often, and while hard, after I go to school and learn what he was trying to get me to understand, I realize he understood my point of view completely, and I just did not understand his. There are a lot of people who reject him out of hand, and reading your post, it clearly showed a disconnect from what he said and your response. Right now he's already gone and solved some major problems, he's hinting to NWN1 devs how to fix things which they are not listening to ( down to pointing out the exact detail they actually need ), but very few are following his hints.

It was the same with scripting, i script how I was told, and I moved up the chain of who knows more and who knows less, and as I got better, well I started to understand the grumpy comments which made no sense when i started. It took me a while to get to where I could understand what I was being told.

He thought it was relevant and you jumped him for derailing your thread. Further you described things which are just not true, mostly flip assumptions. You cannot honestly reject something which does is not understood, and when your responses are clearly based less on reality and more on assumptions.

This community needs to stop the ego thing, and be willing to admit things they don't know. Ego is a very bad thing which there is too much of, and we have people who know more than us.

His API not being used on neverwinterconnections.com, that just means your site is going to not be the leading site for MP players. Up to you of course. There is potential which is wasted, which is shooting right past your site, to me this is just plain sad thinking of what could have been, especially since the sites using his data have issues, and I'd really prefer your site to succeed and have all the bells and whistles it should have.

( bullet list works fine if you enter in the raw text, the visual editor has a lot problems here and everywhere )

[virusman]

Either way, this discussion really doesn't belong here.
neverwinterconnections.com has its own uses, and, as far as I know, it never was and never did want to be a list of PW servers. If NWC doesn't plan to show a list of all servers on their site (considering that threre already are a few that do), it's their decision, and the question of whether Skywing, you or me are reputable people is beside the topic. For example, I create tools that may help a lot of people, but no one should be forced to use anything, especially if it doesn't achieve anything they want to do.
ehye_khandee, please tone down your aggression. It is completely inappropriate towards someone who just posted a single post in the wrong thread. You could just explain what NWC is.

Now let's move on and get this thread back on topic.

Modifié par virusman, 13 février 2013 - 04:23 .

[ehye_khandee]

PART 2

This is the continuation of a reply to a off-topic post that I honestly feel smells of troll. Still, I will reply and attempt to indicate at least where it is utterly off-topic and address any points that ARE on topic (rare and of questionable verity).  NOTE the material was edited to remove the use of bullet lists which don't seem to work well in this forum (with my browser at least).


[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
1) Just don't play  multiplayer, or keep entries in your history. This means the game is going to die or is just a SP game. ( frankly i like rubbing shoulders with SP and MP folks all together )

2) Re-aim the OS to send gamespy communications to a new server, and recreate gamespy, this will also mess up any other games that use gamespy, but those can forward to gamespy. While this sounds great, I am pretty sure a cease and desist letter will show up since gamespy owns the rights to it's system which you are copying without their approval. ( and looking at luigi's site who has all the info on it, the lawyers do pay attention so good luck on that. )

3) Modify the actual exe file to aim at a new server. However if a person has a patched EXE file ( ie no cd, or other mod ) this won't work with it, or might be buggy. You still need a central server, and then why would the data have to be in gamespy format if you got things this far, instead you should use an open data exchange method.

4) Modify the game after it starts, just like NWNx modifies the service. This is what NWNCX does. This does not fix the central server, but it does let you fix the in game pw listings to use a data source of your choice. Frankly gamespy is not an open format, nor is it efficient, nor is it well documented, moving to a new format just makes sense.

5) Put the pw list on a stand alone app, and have it launch the game via +connect ( i am doing an app that does this, which is needed for mac users who cannot use NWNx )

6) Put the pw list on a website, players can use it to find the game to play on. ( this sounds like what your site is made for, and why this comment belongs in this thread )
[/quote]

While this is a list, I will not conjecture on its completeness nor exacting coverage of the points it claims.

Five of the six 'points' have nothing to do with neverwinterconnections.com (the topic of this thread, remember?), and the last one a nebulous connection existing in the mind of the writer. While neverwinterconnections.com is a web site, and will be offering a web page listing servers, players and a direct connect link, it does not use nor does it require any of the materials either of these fellows are pushing here (neither NWNx nor the API from SkywingL). Now, note, I had asked SkywingL to remove his off-topic post. Twenty days later this friend of SkywingL comes in to further derail my thread and defend his buddy.

Next I will address the posters evaluation of their own points. I will confess to being confused by the posters' use of paragraphs begining with 'First', 'Second', and 'Third' as these points do not match with the bullets and may have been better offered as a single paragraph with sentences starting as noted IMHO.

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
    Now lets take a step back, the first 3 are clearly wrong. The second two assume we HAVE to use gamespy, but the fact is we don't actually have to use gamespy which is a closed method of communication, it would be preferred to use an open method.

    First, Getting the in game server list working is clearly needed, touching the exe file is not going to fly, but making it change in memory right after it starts, well that really gives an option to the player. And the fact it's using SOAP to do this is actually faster than how it was doing it before via gamespy and pinging all the servers for player counts ( assuming it worked similar to how i implemented it prior to gamespy being shut off and how luigi documented it )

Second, having a stand alone app is a great idea. Makes it easy, and if you don't want to touch the exe file, great.

Third having it on a website, ie like http://www.nwnlist.com/ - we can find addresses.

As for the central data source. We have NWNx plugins, those are great solution, PW admins already use them. Further we can use a web service post to notify the central server ( via PHP or whatever ) when the server is up or where it's located. And since it's open, anyone can develop new means of updating it. And the NWNx folks who are doing it, well NWNx has always been a vital part of PW's in nwn1 and nwn2, why not have their team be behind the fix for gamespy going away, they already are modding the server process which is exactly the thing being listed.
[/quote]

All of the above segment is off-topic, and that is as much space as I will give it. If you want to know which parts of the above I believe to be false or misguided, open a thread to discuss it and invite me.

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
You claimed this splits up the community, but all three options use the SAME data source, the SOAP allows any client program to use it regardless of OS. The data source can be kept up to date via NWNx plugins, or the PW can send SOAP messages telling the central server their status ( or those using the extender who direct connect can also notify the central server, and the central server can monitor those ip's ) Further custom additions can be done to add PW's that refuse to join, making this universal.
[/quote]

You misstate. Don't try to put words in my mouth. All after that is not applicable at all to what we are doing. Making changes like this do, however, require anyone who wants to support a list to accomodate another feed. Not ALL servers are going to do this change you propose, not all will know about your changes, not all will adopt them. THIS can in fact split the community. I personally feel a better solution lay in using the feeds as they come off a standard install of nwserver.exe .

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
Now in you post, you go on a rant about SOAP like its a bad thing, and how your web server is not a server ( that was kind of confusing ), and someting about how you don't use windows, and how you do ALL your own code. Frankly this seems more like anger, and as a long time web developer, this just does not make me think you really understand what is being discussed, or how web sites are developed in this day and age, perhaps you are aiming at setting up a system to track PWs you are doing yourself, but frankly I'd prefer you choose instead to work with the community and what is already working. Your server and your programmers just won't be able to compete with an open system, which is already so far along in development the problem is actually solved, and the solution is being back ported to support NWN1.
[/quote]

You misstate the case. In my post, I state that neverwinterconnections.com (the topic of this poor derailed thread) does not use SOAP. For a fact, what was stated is as follows:

[quote]Ehye_Khandee wrote...
As for neverwinterconnections.com we write our own code. We do not use SOAP in the neverwinterconnections.com web site. We don't even run windows. Neverwinterconnections.com is not a server and does not run nwn software at all. Needless to say, we also don't use nwnx in any form.
[/quote]

Taken together, this confirms that 'is not a server' indicates 'is not a NWNserver'. My apologies to you if you missed that point. Facts are neverwinterconnections.com is a webserver, it is also a phpserver, and little else.
[/quote]

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
Now I am looking at the results from this server, and i am doing this on a mac using a program I wrote that pulls data from what Skywing wrote. ( my program is off topic and i have another thread on it, if you care ). I see 328 players on 91 servers for NWN2 right now. On NWN1 I see 879 players on 189 servers. How many NWN1 pw's do you think there are at this point, I can't imagine that is not already taking dominent market share, despite the fact that most people seem to be still trying to figure out what should be done, or how to recreate the gamespy servers.
[/quote]

'this server'? With no link. Am I to think that we are talking about neverwinterconnections.com? I think you intended some question in there but lacking sentence structure and a question-mark I won't attempt to answer. Your choice of 'this' and lack of specificity make the above incomprehensible to me.


[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
I got this list on a mac, in a program I wrote to launch NWN1 and connect to any of those servers by hitting the play button. I did this via using a open web service and it has critical mass in NWN2, and definitely has heavy usage in NWN1. So if you do something else, you will move servers out of the above central list into another central list so we have 2 lists, or get all the servers refusing to join this list - this sounds more like splitting up things. Or perhaps it's a split between NWN1 and NWN2 which is desired, because this is working in NWN2, and the game client lists all the PWs and NWNx communicates with his Soap service. Or perhaps it's by OS, If i couldn't use skywings service, i'd have to make my own list just for mac users since absolutely no ideas discussed here help our minority group except for skywings. Most things in this community are done by standing on the shoulders of others prior efforts.
[/quote]

You really need to proofread your own posts before you post. Commas, periods and those other things you seem lax with above are important to meaning and again, I won't respond to such a poorly worded rant.

For a fact, neverwinterconnections.com (the topic of this thread) does work for MAC users, and Windows users, and LINUX users, and many others too. It is a web site remember, so if your device handles HTML, your device can use neverwinterconnections.com .  Somewhere above you accuse me/this (the topic) site as splitting things up. I do not see how so. We ask no nwserver operator to change anything. Note too that neverwinterconnections.com has been around for more than 10 years; it is a name known and trusted in the community. We at neverwinterconnections.com advocate no such thing as you assert.

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
A web service is used by real web sites, because it is generally understood that it is better for each web site to specialize in a single area and integrate other websites where they do it better, than to do everything yourself. Smart programmers integrate multiple api's and do some amazing things. For example, if you see maps on a web site, it's generally using the google maps service, and the developer is still developing, he's just able to work smarter using the what google has provided, and making something neither that developer nor google could have done on their own.
[/quote]

I've been coding for the web since 1992, professionally since 1995. My partner in this effort is a Masters Degree level programmer. You presume everyone with 'real' web sites uses apis and it is not true. While many do, many do not. Many of us do prefer to code everything on our site and have total control of content. We write code the old fashioned way - line by line manually. Web sites are not the only thing we code either. We already have our own back-end for our own site (as stated some time ago when your friend SkywingL derailed the this thread).

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
SOAP is not a windows thing, it's actually fully open, W3C specification, and further is just a way of exchanging data which works on any OS, and I don't think there is a internet company that does not provide or use an API in this day and age, but the term SOAP, or REST or Web Service, all of them exchange XML or JSON data, even AJAX and allow you to do things like buy things with your credit card, all of them are just API's which allow you to work together with other website. I am planning on my own fully open data sources via web services, utilizing data on custom content and patches, and closely integrated with the vault preservation project. The hope in my doing this, is that if I can develop sources of raw data - ie a searchable list of single player modules which is tightly integrated with the vault and the nexus, and that the community can take the baton and take this further than i can imagine, and we can all move further ahead by working as a community. ( and you could use this API list the modules which are good for running events )
[/quote]

At no point did I make ANY assertion that "SOAP is a windows thing" - again, you presume you are speaking to someone who lacks understanding of programing languages and computer/Internet history. This is uttelry not the case here. If you wish to pontificate on the merits of some web technology, please do so IN YOUR OWN THREAD and stop derailing this one.

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
And lets get back to the point of the thread -- and yes this is actually on topic, just not the direction you are aiming for here, rather I am trying to get your comments back on topic....
[/quote]

I will pretend for a moment that you know what the topic IS, while reading the above

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
Why isn't a site named neverwinterconnections.com not willing to integrate live data on server status and helping players find a PW? Why can't you integrate this information into your matchmaking, listing empty servers, citing the current player count, keeping track of the player count during an event and the like. My mind is just over flowing with ways this could be used to "connect" what is going on in game, with what is posted on your site.
[/quote]

And then you dash my illusion with the above.

PROOFREAD YOUR POST - I will not attempt to answer a question with double negatives and the sloppy grammar of a 6th grader. Break your posts down into sentences. REREAD your stuff. The above shows me you know nothing of the topic and continue to make accusations of the garbled gobbledegoop sort. DO NOT TAKE THIS AS AN INVITATION TO CONTINUE TO DERAIL MY THREAD but please do take it to a thread of your own, if you like, I'll join you there.


[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
And further, ways you could work with skywing and others to add even more amazing features that integrate your site and the game itself. ( for example a nwnx plugin to send a message to your server when a bored dm is looking for player victims to do something with, where he can hit a button in game and it shows up on your sites front page )
[/quote]

Starting sentences, let alone whole paragraphs with 'and' is exceedingly poor grammar and again, I won't bother to try to decipher your slapdash effort at trolling here. Take it to another thread if you want to discuss the use or merit of your software, but don't turn this thread into some hastilly conceived and poorly written advertisement for your friends' software.

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
Why can't you take this openly shared source of data, grab the baton and show how you can stand on the shoulders of others in the community and come up with something new and cool based on it? Skywing has already done the hard part, he's got a list of all the PW's which is dynamically up to date, and he is offering to let you integrate this information into your event listings.
[/quote]

You have clearly not read any of my prior post in reply to that of your friend. We have our own code, we write sites that do not depend on others' feeds. We prefer it that way and it is as valid an option in terms of web design as the alternative.

[quote]painofdungeoneternal wrote...
And when some a renowned developer offers something he thinks is useful to your discussion, isn't there a more civil way to respond? We are actually all on the same side.
[/quote]

Offers made in private messages do not derail a thread. As I have expressed continuously in responses to both you and your friend - derailing a thread to openly offer your software for my use is NOT GOOD FORM. Keep your offer in private channels and do not derail my thread. If you continue to troll and derail this thread I will report your actions to the moderators. Please take this as your final invitation to take your topic to a different thread. PLEASE TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO DELETE YOUR POSTS IN THIS THREAD AND WILL REMOVE MY REFERENCES TO THEM. In your own promotional thread, you may invite my participation there if you desire it, otherwise, in this thread at least, stay on topic.


THIS THREAD IS AN APPEAL FOR SPECIFIC TYPES OF ASSISTANCE IN OUR EFFORT TO REBUILD NEVERWINTERCONNECTIONS.COM

Presently we are seeking one or more graphic artists to supply some images to be used in a bot-stumper.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

 

Modifié par ehye_khandee, 13 février 2013 - 05:57 .

[ehye_khandee]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

I have learned in this community when someone who has been around for a awhile says try something, it is kind of wise to take a good look at it and learn it before you move on to something else, or reject it. And i stand by what I said.

OFF TOPIC

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
I get that from Skywing alot. He is a bit ahead of me quite often, and while hard, after I go to school and learn what he was trying to get me to understand, I realize he understood my point of view completely, and I just did not understand his. There are a lot of people who reject him out of hand, and reading your post, it clearly showed a disconnect from what he said and your response. Right now he's already gone and solved some major problems, he's hinting to NWN1 devs how to fix things which they are not listening to ( down to pointing out the exact detail they actually need ), but very few are following his hints.

OFF TOPIC but I am glad you show a capacity for eventual epiphany.

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
It was the same with scripting, i script how I was told, and I moved up the chain of who knows more and who knows less, and as I got better, well I started to understand the grumpy comments which made no sense when i started. It took me a while to get to where I could understand what I was being told.

OFF TOPIC

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
He thought it was relevant and you jumped him for derailing your thread. Further you described things which are just not true, mostly flip assumptions. You cannot honestly reject something which does is not understood, and when your responses are clearly based less on reality and more on assumptions.

PROOFREAD.

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
This community needs to stop the ego thing, and be willing to admit things they don't know. Ego is a very bad thing which there is too much of, and we have people who know more than us.

You talk of 'this community needs to stop the ego thing', and you bash me as making 'flip assumptions'. Interesting juxtaposition here. I FOLLOWED YOUR FRIEND'S LINK AND READ THE PAGE THERE.

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
His API not being used on neverwinterconnections.com, that just means your site is going to not be the leading site for MP players. Up to you of course. There is potential which is wasted, which is shooting right past your site, to me this is just plain sad thinking of what could have been, especially since the sites using his data have issues, and I'd really prefer your site to succeed and have all the bells and whistles it should have.

While you are entitled to an opinion it is just that. Some may errantly believe that getting all to draw their information from a single source is a good thing, until that source looses net or power or has some other failure. We prefer to not rely on the feed offered. I have made that (I think) abundantly clear to all but you somehow.

neverwinterconnections.com will have features which may overlap in some ways with other services *shrugs* no matter. If one source fails the other is still there. I count this a good thing for the community. Redundancy can be a good thing in some cases.

That neverwinterconnections.com chooses to not use your friend's API or that it does not use NWNX (heck, again it is not a NWN server) does nothing to waste any potential.

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
( bullet list works fine if you enter in the raw text, the visual editor has a lot problems here and everywhere )

I don't care to fiddle with the thing. It's wonky and I don't need any wonk thank you.

This is the LAST TIME I WILL STATE IT depart the thread and stop de-railing it or I'll ask a moderator to step in. Remove your off topic posts and I'll remove my references to them. Please follow the forum rules and do not continue your off topic posting here.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

[ehye_khandee]

virusman wrote...

Either way, this discussion really doesn't belong here.
neverwinterconnections.com has its own uses, and, as far as I know, it never was and never did want to be a list of PW servers. If NWC doesn't plan to show a list of all servers on their site (considering that threre already are a few that do), it's their decision, and the question of whether Skywing, you or me are reputable people is beside the topic. For example, I create tools that may help a lot of people, but no one should be forced to use anything, especially if it doesn't achieve anything they want to do.
ehye_khandee, please tone down your aggression. It is completely inappropriate towards someone who just posted a single post in the wrong thread. You could just explain what NWC is.

Now let's move on and get this thread back on topic.

Friend Virusman - I totally agree, it does not belong here and I have been stating it all along.

The explanation of what neverwinterconnections.com is is the first post in this thread btw, and more information is found by clicking the link to visit the site of course.

neverwinterconnections.com will in fact be offering a list of servers with direct connect links and player count displays but will not be using the tools offered by the prior off-topic posters to achieve the design. I did not impune the reputation of yourself nor SkywingL here, in fact all statements of any repute found in this thread regarding you two have been on the part of the off topic poster (all recommendations). I have merely consistently stated we don't use and don't intend to use the tools you are authoring. We honestly don't have a need for them as we prefer to author our own content rather than rely on feeds from outside aggregator locations. I think having two reliable independent sources of data available to the public is a good thing (reduncancy can be good).

Please dont' take offense with my posting style habits, there is no aggresssion here. I have lowercase and UPPERCASE and I eschew learning 'non-standard markup' that is usually unique to each forum (it keeps me from learning what could be 'bad habits' - I stick to standard markup only). This is a forum not a NWN game, so my CAPS are intended as EMPHASIS not 'shouting'.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

[henesua]

With regards to the topic, what is happening with Neverwinter Connections?

The website is still not functioning as well as it did before the data was salvaged.

Last year when I was trying to use the site to organize my games in Arnheim, I noticed numerous problems. My offers to help fix things were rejected, and while someone appeared to be working on the bugs I brought up - I don't know if they were ever dealt with. At the time I was surprised that my offer to help was rejected, but I accepted it. But at this point, Ehye, I am concerned about the project.

NWC was once a pillar of this community. I made good use of it for years. Before I ever stepped foot in a PW. But I don't see much use for it now as it is buggy, and the beta release appearance seems to have driven its users away to find solutions elsewhere.

What gives?

I'd consider making another offer to help, but I'm a bit too busy now. I hope that others with some time and expertise could step forward to bring NWC back from life support. But even if they did, are you going to accept it?

[ehye_khandee]

Friend henshua,
Yes, as noted a few posts above, we are releasing the totally re-built neverwinterconnections.com site in a phased release. Phase One is online now, providing basic server listing in the database, and the unique feature that allowed DM/PLAYER matchmaking (this was deemed the most important and unique set of features the old site offered). Most of the rest of it was just a forum.

The forum we opted to do in Phase Two as it is a broad and deep subject that needed special attention but was replicated elsewhere on the web in many forms (so it was reasoned the NWC members could get by for a few months without the old forums).

As you may have noted, the old NWC was coded in a different language - which costs about $3000 for a license. No one stepped in with money for such a thing and honestly it was not needed (PHP did everything the other language did and costs NOTHING for a license). In the interest of making it less expensive to the next group that inherits NWC, we opted to recode from scratch in PHP.

Yes, we declined your offer of help. We frankly do not know you and we are handling this all very close to the vest for security reasons. There was no time nor resource to vett a new member of the team at that juncture so we worked on with the team we already had.

Phase Two is due out soon. If what is there now is buggy, please send us a bug report (either pm or use the bug tracker system).

What gives? As has been posted elsewhere, the isle of Cyprus has some serious electrical grid problems since the explosion that destroyed half the isle's power generation capacity. This has made it necessary to not work on the site during the hot summer months when air conditioning drain on the grid makes reliable computing impossible. Half of our team is on Cyprus.

We have the project well in hand and are not looking for additional coding help at this time. As previously stated, we need artists to contribute some specific art work and THAT is the point of this thread atm.

Thank you for your inquery.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

[henesua]

Thank you for your reply.

I am disappointed that you value security more highly than building a team to get the job done. Frankly to me this is quite obviously a bigger part of the problem than power outages on Cyprus.

I don't mean to press my own case to help you. My offer for help no longer stands as I don't have the time to deal with this. But considering the resources we still have available in the community I think this could have been handled in a way that actually saved the NWC.

I hope the NWC recovers, and regains its user base. And I wish you good luck.

Modifié par henesua, 13 février 2013 - 10:50 .

[ehye_khandee]

When security is less than the number one priority, security will surely come back to bite later.

NWC was and will be a popular site, these can be targeted by less than scrupulous sorts. In fact, it has a history of being an unwilling participant in various attempts on the site. Again, because we do not know you, nor your skill level, we choose not to involve you (a stranger) in the effort. This is prudence.

I can see by your post that you value security less than do the rest of my team. This is perhaps a good thing that we did not work together, I'm thinking it may not have gone well.

I am certain NWC will be just fine (but then, I've seen the code). Stay tuned for new releases from NWC very soon.

Best wishes to you in your projects. Again no offense intended with our declining your offer, I seek only to help you understand that we did not have the ability to vett an outsider - we inherited the code at the very end of March, and hardly had two months to complete Phase One before the powergrid went to hades in a handbasket. Before you make light of how bad it is over there, check out the wiki article on the matter, you'll notice there were even protests and resignations at the top offices. With no improvement after nearly two years of this Erin is looking to move to France, where at least the grid is clean.

Surges kill hardware. We are not made of money. Thank you for your patience.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

[OldTimeRadio]

@Ehye_Khandee -Some time back, I sent you a PM about Railo, a completely FOSS Cold Fusion solution.  At least from what I've seen, bringing the old site back up in it's last workable form does not require those thousands of dollars of licensing fees.  Right there, if you want to bring the site back up, there appears to be a tool for you to do it that doesn't require re-coding everything from scratch in PHP.

I know you're concerned about security issues.  But could hackers have done any damage which took down the site for eleven months straight?  For me, that's the tip-off that this project appears to have entered development hell and that's no reflection on you or Eriniel, that's just a fact of life with any kind of development.  If it wasn't for the rather strict deadlines of the CCC, I think all of my projects would have ended up in development hell!



I really, really hope you consider consulting with someone like Rolo and potentially throwing up at least a working placeholder site using something like Drupal.  It is used in awfully "serious" places.  Just something temporary that people can use. 

If you can get a barebones proxy site up with similar functionality, you can start rebuilding your core userbase for when you do have the major conversion ready for prime-time.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 14 février 2013 - 12:04 .

[henesua]

ehye_khandee wrote...

Again no offense intended with our declining your offer, I seek only to help you understand that we did not have the ability to vett an outsider - we inherited the code at the very end of March, and hardly had two months to complete Phase One before the powergrid went to hades in a handbasket.

No offense taken. I was simply pointing out a problem that I saw. The point was not that needed me specifically, but that in general your team is obviously too small to do the job.

ehye_khandee wrote...
Before you make light of how bad it is over there, check out the wiki article on the matter, you'll notice there were even protests and resignations at the top offices.

I wasn't making light of it at all. The point was how vulnerable your project was due to team size given that a regional disaster could cause you so much trouble. For example if you had drawn on more of the community, they would have been more evenly distributed around the globe.

Incidentally I wish Eriniel well, I enjoyed RPing with her in the old days on Vives.

And anyway... enough of this... get back to work.

[ehye_khandee]

OldTimeRadio wrote...

@Ehye_Khandee -Some time back, I sent you a PM about Railo, a completely FOSS Cold Fusion solution.  At least from what I've seen, bringing the old site back up in it's last workable form does not require those thousands of dollars of licensing fees.  Right there, if you want to bring the site back up, there appears to be a tool for you to do it that doesn't require re-coding everything from scratch in PHP.

I know you're concerned about security issues.  But could hackers have done any damage which took down the site for eleven months straight?  For me, that's the tip-off that this project appears to have entered development hell and that's no reflection on you or Eriniel, that's just a fact of life with any kind of development.  If it wasn't for the rather strict deadlines of the CCC, I think all of my projects would have ended up in development hell!



I really, really hope you consider consulting with someone like Rolo and potentially throwing up at least a working placeholder site using something like Drupal.  It is used in awfully "serious" places.  Just something temporary that people can use. 

If you can get a barebones proxy site up with similar functionality, you can start rebuilding your core userbase for when you do have the major conversion ready for prime-time.

We take security seriously. We are not interested in the FOSS solution you offered, for reasons we do not need to share (security related) we chose to go with PHP. The old site had been hacked, and had a history of being hacked and may have resulted in malware being introduced to the downloads from NWC. We are seeking to NOT repeat history here.

Your strange statement about "could hackers have done any damage which took down the site for eleven months straight?" makes no sense what so ever. The site has not been offline, we have only had possession of the site code since the very end of March last year, 10 months total. At no point during that time was NWC offline. The unique and essential portion of the site, the game scheduler is functioning (php) and the rest (essentially a forum software) is on the way. To read your post, you'd think it was a 404 page and that is far from truth.

We choose not to use drupal due to known flaws I will not discuss. I have better things to do that to be made to clean up after hackers, thanks.

Phase One of our release IS a bare bones functional site. We have no need to invest effort in a temporary drupal fix, we are proceeding as planned and for reasons well considered. The site IS a functioning thing atm, missing only the forums (which merit special attention to protect against mischief).

Phase Two will be out soon. In the meantime, we'd like to use this thread to alert ARTISTS - WE NEED YOUR HELP. WE NEED ORIGINAL ART (specific pieces) to be used in the NWC authentication system. Please help.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

[The Amethyst Dragon]

What kind of original art are you looking for?
Which specific pieces?
What sizes for which pieces?

[kamal_]

The Amethyst Dragon wrote...

What kind of original art are you looking for?
Which specific pieces?
What sizes for which pieces?

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/172/index/12655490#14939974

[ehye_khandee]

CONTACT INFORMATION:

GM_ODA aka Ehye_Khandee PM me on social.bioware.com and I'll give you an email in reply, to which you can send any images you submit for our use.

THANK YOU for your interest in helping us rebuild NeverwinterConnections.com.

As you already know, Eriniel and myself are rebuilding the neverwinterconnections.com website to run on Free Open Source Software (FOSS) rather than the proprietary (pronounced "several thousand dollars for a license" Cold Fusion) system on which it was based previously.

The original web site for neverwinterconnections.com was coded TEN YEARS AGO and much has changed on the Internet since those days. We are working to eliminate all obsoleted code and will deliver the system using only HTML, CSS and PHP. While we are busy about doing the 'heavy-coding' we have been discussing giving the site a new look. While the old graphics were OK, there were no 'pedigree' data about who made them and detailing licensing - as we respect IP rights, we would like to see NEW graphics to replace the old - the new graphics all donated by talented persons in the NWN Community. . . YOU.

==== BEGIN PROPOSED AGREEMENT ====

KUDOs to you and THANK YOU FOR VOLUNTEERING. To be totally up-front about this engagement, we are asking you to donate your original works to fill the modest needs of the new neverwinterconnections.com - the art you provide, you provide with full rights to re-use in perpetuity and grant that we may transfer those rights along with the site to the control of another in the future, such rights will always be conveyed with the site ownership. YOU will receive a text credit on the credits page of the new web site, along with this credit, at your option, we will include a link to an internet location of your choosing, and/or a link to email you (while disguising your email addy from bots with our best digital subterfuge).

If you submit any art to me at the above email address, you acknowledge the terms set forth in the preceeding paragraph apply.

These three paragraphs (this and the above two) are the whole of the agreement between us should you agree and signify this by sending art to the above email address.

==== END PROPOSED AGREEMENT ====

ART PIECES REQUESTED:

LOGO - font/look of your choosing 'NeverwinterConnections.com' this should be done to 'stand out' on a dark background'... provide in original format and .png - sized LARGE so we can 'reduce to fit', PLEASE send a sample also suited as overlay to the following banner art.

BANNER ART -
Replacement for 'nwtavern.jpg' in same size. We like the idea of a 'fade to black' on the left side of image, beyond that, you have carte-blanche. Please try to represent the NWN / NWN2 theme as broadly as you can (this is a versetile game engine so it may be challenging to conceive of the imagery to elicit a 'fits most of NWN' need - but praise be, there are talented persons like you to help us out there). 2200x472 pixels.

NEW ART - in the same size as 'nwtavern.jpg' to be used in the NWC FORUM - we ask you to do something that would 'evoke historic forums with a fantasy flair' beyond this, you have carte-blanche.

NEW ART - in the same size as 'nwtavern.jpg' to be used in the NWC LIBRARY - we ask you to do something that would 'evoke a library with a fantasy flair', beyond this, you have carte-blanche. 880x1152

NEW ART - 'Realms' are aka server clusters, e.g. two or more related NWN or NWN2 servers. What we would like for this one, done in the same size as 'nwtavern.jpg' - is to have something illustrative of portals/transit from "world to world", beyond that, you have carte-blanche. This piece will be used in the head of the server/realms search pages. 880x1152

FOR ALL THE ABOVE BANNER ART - please provide the art in native format and in .png format, both formats with and without the overlay of text 'NeverwinterConnections.com'

REPLACEMENT CHARACTER - traditionally, NWC has had a dwarf figure in the lower right corner. This character without a name that I know of - in some images seems to have the character of 'Dungeon Master' from the old D&D Cartoon series looking over his shoulder. This honestly alarms me as the IP for the cartoon is NOT even remotely conferred to NWN and has nothing to do with NWN. Whimsical, sentimental or whatever, I don't want that infringement on my watch. We respect IP here. All that said, what we need are one or more 'characters' to replace the friendly dwarf. In _some_ of the old dwarf's images (sorry, I was unable to locate them in time to send with this package) the dwarf held a plain white placard (like a small sandwich board in advertising parlance) - I rather liked the idea of the NPC depicted having 'signage space' that we can fill in with black or red text and links that change page to page. So, whhat we need from you are one or more characters (of approximate same size image) to replace the dwarf. The character or characters you provide should fit 'standard nwn/dnd' and be one of the 'classic' races; dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, human, half-elf or half-orc. The character should be outfitted as a DND character in whatever tasteful act you might envision that could involve either wearing signage or standing before signage (where we will insert text)... signage should be in the lower left quarter of the image, so that the character faces toward the center of the page. 880x1152

new/replacement art - small dragon icons, dragons sleeping, dragons 'breaking down the fourth wall' (e.g. looking at reader), dragons on treasure, in flight, etc. general purpose small dragon icons we can use about the site as buttons or accents. Beyond these few pointers, YOU HAVE CARTE BLANCHE on this too. keep size to 100x150 please. Submit in original format and as png.

replacement art - we need a new image to replace the 'NoImage.gif' (also in samples sent). Same size, as png file and original format please. 256x512

LASTLY - we need animation of a dragon doing a 'banner sized' swoop onto screen and drop object which bounces and resolves in near vision field as a scroll which features words "NEW MAIL" on it, as dragon takes wing up and out of view. This animation will play anew with each page-load while there is unread messages in the Members' inbox (the image will be engineered into the page to load only once, so it will have a small bandwidth usage overall). The swooping dragon should be done on a transparent background so it can appear 'in the foreground over' the banner and such links there. 880x1152


Disclosure - We have appealed to the community and were met with responses from only a few artists. We hope to enlist a few artists to assist us here, THIS IS TO GIVE US OPTIONS - and to be an 'insurance policy' if you will, ensuring that we get at least one image suited to each use. The characters, we will be using (randomized) from page to page, so we'll need BOTH of your efforts in that section of the page (variety is good there, you can use any 'look' you please to convey your desired message - e.g. sepia tones to help set the mood on a human sleuth entering a doorway is as OK as is bold realistic imagery with blood dripping from sword as the warrior pokes the anonymous monster body at his feet. . . whatever YOU as an artist feels best suits the piece you are making - the variety in your chosen styles from character to character helps us emphasize just how versatile NWN and NWN2 really ARE.

Where the banners are concerned, we'll choose from among the submitted pieces, but reserve the right to use all the good works you provide even if that means using them on other parts of NWC besides the one outlined in the paragraphs above.

In short, WE WILL USE YOUR WORK. I've seen/learned enough about YOU two artists that I feel very confident you are both going to turn in useful, high quality pieceds. YOU WILL GET CREDITED on the credits page for NWC as well (please provide us with the text and any email or web addy you might want associated with your name there).

WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR KIND ASSISTANCE AND VOLUNTEER SPIRIT! The community will appreciate your submissions for years to come.

If you can only do PART of the above request, please do. We need artistic assistance.

Modifié par ehye_khandee, 15 février 2013 - 12:11 .

[Urk]

 I am not an artist. I used to do graphic design back when I was still a website designer, so I can do logos, but I don't even own a graphics tablet any more. 

Here's a resource I've found handy as heck for finding illustrations for my hand-outs and guides...
www.thefreerpgblog.com/2008/12/free-images-to-spice-up-your-game.html

Modifié par Urk, 15 février 2013 - 04:52 .

[kamal_]

ehye_khandee wrote...

This character without a name that I know of - in some images seems to have the character of 'Dungeon Master' from the old D&D Cartoon series looking over his shoulder. This honestly alarms me as the IP for the cartoon is NOT even remotely conferred to NWN and has nothing to do with NWN.

Dungeon Master is a stock character in NWN2, and is included in the default game with a custom conversation that's available in any module. (Dungeon Master is the debug npc for the nwn2 original campaign, and the conversation reflects this). The npc is a nwn2 likeness of the cartoon character.

[ehye_khandee]

Thanks for that both yof you.

Urk, I'll review the content on that URL.

kamal_, mystery solved. I'll be avoiding use of the character and look to replacing it with some alternate image free of IP issues.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

[Elhanan]

Does NWC offer DM training? I have not utilized the site, but do know that Guides and tips were offered for starting players at one time, and wondered if newbie DM's could get their feet wet, too. Thanks, and best of luck!

[Shadooow]

ehye_khandee wrote...

Um, please don't derail the thread. This is about neverwinterconnections and has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR EXE HACK.

Thank you but no thanks. I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE CHANGE THE EXE FILES TO GET FUNCTIONALITY.

As for neverwinterconnections.com we write our own code. We do not use SOAP in the neverwinterconnections.com web site. We don't even run windows. Neverwinterconnections.com is not a server and does not run nwn software at all. Needless to say, we also don't use nwnx in any form.

Your post has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH NEVERWINTERCONNECTION.COM nor this thread. While your offer would have been welcomed had it come by private channels, what you are doing here is derailing the thread. PLEASE REMOVE YOUR OFF TOPIC MATERIAL as I do not want to be thought to be endorsing your methods (altering the nwn exe files) - which I do not endorse at all.

WARNING TO EVERYONE BENT ON CHANGING THE EXES - unless I miss my estimate here, YOU WILL END UP FRAGMENTING THE COMMUNITY BY SENDING PART OF THE DATA ONE PLACE AND PART OF IT TO ANOTHER. THIS HELPS HOW?

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

I'd say the thread derailed with this, even if it's an old thread, not with skywings comments, i am frankly just stunned at how you describe things, and the heavy use of caps - are you actually yelling, but i hope to get this thread back on track.

Seconded painpofdungeoneternal. Yet I also must react to this rant.

It was you who mentioned in this topic the gamespy issue and existing solutions to fix it. Your response to Skywing is absolutely unfair and uncivil. Your attitude towards the initiative of peoples trying to help this game is also stunning. Do you have a better solution? How do you want to add the server listing functionality within game client without modifying game files? How do you think that it does help if everyone will make his own server list like you?

Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 16 février 2013 - 11:32 .

[Urk]

I support the attempt to recover the game client's server list functionality and when you get it working I will use it, but I also see some important advantages to having separate decentralized server listings. I see no reason that these solutions would be mutually exclusive. Quite the contrary. I see them complimenting one another. 

Elhanan wrote...

Does NWC offer DM training? I have not utilized the site, but do know that Guides and tips were offered for starting players at one time, and wondered if newbie DM's could get their feet wet, too. Thanks, and best of luck!

NWC used to have a DM training program, but they stopped doing it years ago. Long before I even got involved with the site. 

Carlo_One's DM101 mods are a great intro to DMing. I highly recommend starting there.

DM 101 Self Study Module for NWN 
http://nwvault.ign.c...500450000.shtml 
DM 101 Self Study Module for NWN2 
http://nwvault.ign.c...id=14972&id=296 

Another great way to get some hands on training is to offer to assist an active DM. 

Once NWC is back up to full functionality I may be in a position to help Oda reinstitute the DM certification, but Carlo 1's mod will still be the central teaching tool. 

Modifié par Urk, 17 février 2013 - 02:52 .