8 réponses à ce sujet

[MartialArtsMaster]

For simplicity's sake I'm not including the choices that either only matter if you actually do the assignment (for example, it's better to complete Lair of the Shadow Broker than not to complete it so you can get Feron as a War Asset and it's better to get the asari consort's trinket than not to so you can use it on Eletania), or that can be solved either by Charm OR Intimidate (for example, it's better to keep Chairman Burns alive so he can change his ways and give reparations to biotics in ME2, but you can do that by either Charming or Intimidating the extremist leader; or for another example it's better not to let Kolyat go to jail so he can be there to comfort Thane as he dies in ME3, but you can do that either by Charming Bailey into putting Kolyat in community service or by Intimidating Bailey into putting Kolyat in C-Sec), or that have no impact at all not even a minor one.

Also, keep in mind the possibility that if DLC is released in the future it may either change some of this list or add to it depending on the content of the DLC.

Paragon choices that pay off better:

--Letting Fist live, believe it or not. If you let him live, he reappears in Mass Effect 2 in Omega and you can get +2 Paragon or +2 Renegade depending on the dialogue option you select. Considering how difficult it is for the ME2 Morality system to open up "Charm" and "Intimidate" options, you need every Paragon and Renegade point you can get, and nothing at all comes of it if you either kill Fist or let Wrex kill Fist.

--This one's a bit conditional depending on whether you want full krogan support in ME3 or full salarian support in ME3: If your goal is to get full krogan support in Mass Effect 3, pick the Paragon choice to recruit Wrex into your squad in the first place, then don't kill him on Virmire, then with Wrex in charge of the krogan he'll give you the Krogan Mercenaries War Asset with a Military Strength of 75(which Wreav won't), then choose to tell Wrex and Eve about the genophage and let Mordin cure it because if Wrex is in charge, you need to go Paragon so Wrex won't turn on you.

--Giving Tali the geth data. There are no payoffs at all for refusing to give her the data, and if you give her the data you can use it to prove your identity when you reunite with Tali on Freedom's Progress in ME2.

--Returning Nirali Bhatia's corpse back to Samesh Bhatia. Originally Bioware was planning for leaving the corpse with the Alliance to pay off, but that content was cut, so the only payoff is if you return the body so Samesh sends you an e-mail thanking you in ME2.

--Agreeing to scan the keepers for Chorban and then scanning all 21 keepers. The only payoff in the trilogy you can possibly get related to the entire Chorban and Jahleed fiasco is if you scan all 21 keepers for Chorban, since Chorban sends you an e-mail thanking you in ME2. Getting them arrested or killing Chorban or taking Jahleed's bribe etc. has no affect on the trilogy.

--Helping out Emily Wong so she sends you an e-mail in ME2

--It's better to be Paragon to the fans' least favorite reporter. If you "Charm" your way through Khalisah Bint Sinan al-Jilani's interview in Mass Effect 1 (except the last "Charm" option which reveals details about Saren the Alliance and Council don't want people to know), you can make the Alliance look very good to both humans AND aliens and her look like a raving idiot. [/b]It doesn't matter if you're Paragon to her in Mass Effect 2. In Mass Effect 3, taking the Paragon interrupt lets you recruit her as a War Asset.

--Being nice to Conrad Verner throughout the trilogy so that he'll appear in ME3 and give you his dissertation as a War Asset

--Helping out Jenna during the Rita's Sister sidequest so she'll appear and save Conrad Verner's life in ME3

--Doing all the optional Feros assignments to get the Zhu's Hope colony back up to full strength, then sparing all the colonists under Thorian control, then sparing Shiala's life. You'll get a War Asset in ME3. You can't get the War Asset if either Shiala died or Zhu's Hope failed as a colony.

--Agreeing to get Gavin Hossle's data back to him; Conrad Verner can use it in ME3 to boost the score of his associated War Asset.

--Helping out Gianna Parasini instead of screwing her over, so you get an opportunity for more Paragon and Renegade points in Mass Effect 2, and like I said in ME2 you need every morality point you can get. Technically Gianna will still appear as long as you didn't actually get her killed (such as getting the garage pass from Anoleis by giving him Opold's package for instance), but if you didn't actually "help her out" she won't give male Shepard a kiss on the cheek.

--Sparing the rachni queen in ME1, and then sparing her again in ME3. You're ultimately better off in the very long run: If you spare the Rachni Queen, you can get Rachni Workers 100 (without the betrayal that comes from the artificial queen) + Grunt 25 (if you earned his loyalty in ME2 so he survives holding off the Ravagers) + Aralakh Company weakened -25 by saving rachhi strengthed by Grunt leading it +25 strengthened by Grunt loyal +25 and surviving for an Aralakh Company total of 50 = total of 175 boost

--Either letting Balak go to save the hostages in Bring Down the Sky or not completing Bring Down the Sky in the first place so Balak lives by default. Then you can Charm or Intimidate Balak into boosting the score of the Batarian Fleet. You'll still get a Batarian Fleet if it's an unnamed batarian commander, but it won't get a boost in score.

--For spacers, being nice to Zabaleta in ME1 so you get an e-mail from your mother in ME2. For colonists, successfully sedating Talitha so Talitha will send you an e-mail in ME2.

--Convincing Toombs not to shoot Dr. Wayne using "Charm", which will allow Dr. Wayne and Toombs to give testimonies about Cerberus in ME2 in exchange for Dr. Wayne's immunity from prosecution (although you get an angry e-mail from Toombs about having joined Cerberus). Killing the scientist yourself using "Intimidate" will result in Toombs' accusations against Cerberus being dismissed based on lack of evidence, and letting Toombs kill the scientist and himself results in the incident not being brought up at all.

--Saving the original council and the Destiny Ascension, although the Paragon choice here is superior only by a VERY narrow margin, it puts you at a disadvantage at first until you save the "old" salarian councilor then it becomes an advantage. The War Assets/Asari Destiny Ascension section on the Mass Effect Wikia explains the differences and math.

--Picking Anderson to be the new human Councilor. If you pick Udina as Councilor, you can only get your Spectre status back if it's the old council. Udina-as-councilor will refuse to reinstate your Spectre status if it's the new council, and Anderson will wish helplessly that he could help you. But if you pick Anderson to be the new human Councilor, you can potentially get your Spectre status back whether it's the old council or the new one, giving you more leeway. If you don't get your Spectre status back in ME2, the turian councilor (old or new) has to waste time "reinstating" your Spectre status after asking you to save the turian primarch.

--Choosing to destroy the geth flyers and disable the alarms that might alert the geth to Captain Kirrahe's team so that Kirrahe survives. Kirrahe will then get promoted to Major in ME3 and either become a War Asset or (if Thane is dead) sacrifice his life to save the salarian councilor's, which is still useful by itself since if the salarian councilor dies Udina makes the Reputation check for talking down Ashley/Kaidan much more difficult by playing a convincing-but-doctored video of you shooting the councilor to Ashley/Kaidan.

--Saving Rana Thanoptis' life, MAYBE. You can get +2 Paragon or +2 Renegade points from talking to her in ME2, and as stated before in ME2 you need all the Morality points you can get. But in ME3 Rana falls under the Reapers' thrall and murders several asari officials, and you get an e-mail from the Alliance News Network about this.

--Giving Veetor to the quarians instead of to Cerberus, and taking the Paragon interrupt to make Kal'Reegar stand down and leave the Geth Colossus to you. Though this payoff is itself conditional; the Veetor part at least is only necessary if you're trying to use the "Rally the Crowd" option to exonerate Tali because for that you need a non-tortured Veetor and an alive Reegar. If you don't want to use "Rally the Crowd" you can give Veetor to Cerberus, but it's still better to keep Reegar alive so in Mass Effect 3 you get an e-mail where he and his company heroically sacrifice themselves so a turian comm relay won't fall to the Reapers.

--Persuading Miranda to speak to her sister Oriana during Miranda's loyalty mission, just so Oriana can send you an e-mail later. Miranda can still survive ME3 as long as you earned her loyalty just by completing the mission, but since nothing comes of letting Miranda watch Oriana go by, it's better to persuade Miranda to speak to her just for the ME2 e-mail.

--Refusing to have sex with Jack when she offers because you want to get to know her. You can't romance her if you accept casual sex.

--Persuading Jack to spare Aresh, so in ME3 he can heroically save a group of children by sacrificing himself. Nothing comes of letting Jack kill him.

--Persuading Mordin not to kill Maelon, and saving Maelon's data. Unlike the Wrex example I gave above this is (ultimately) the case even if you're trying to side with the salarians in ME3. Saving Maelon first of all lets him send you an e-mail in ME3 explaining that he took Mordin's advice and set up a clinic on Omega. As for the data, if you don't save Maelon's data Eve dies, subtracting -50 from Krogan Clans. The only possible reason to not save the data is if you want to save Mordin, which requires Wreav to be the leader and Eve to be dead. But Mordin only gives you a + 25 boost as a War Assets, which isn't worth Eve's death's -50 subtraction from Krogan Clans.

--Saving Samara instead of saving Morinth. Morinth at least sends you an e-mail in ME3, but the next time you see her you have to fight her as a Banshee. Whereas if you save Samara, you can eventually get Samara as a War Asset and have more conversations with her in the Ardat-Yakshi monastery and on the Citadel.

--Persuading Ereba to remain romantically involved with her boyfriend Charr. You need them to be together so you can discover Charr's corpse in ME3, then bring his message back to Ereba for a +5 Reputation boost. There's no payoff for persuading Ereba to dump Charr.

--Allowing Kasumi to keep Keiji's greybox. If the greybox is destroyed, Kasumi pieces together the information anyawy out of curiosity, so all you accomplish by destroying the greybox is taking Keiji's memories away from Kasumi. So this is a bit subjective but it might be better to keep the greybox.

--The decision to keep Legion instead of giving it to Cerberus, but NOT the heretic geth decision during Legion's loyalty mission. I'll explain the latter under Renegade superior choices, but you have to keep Legion so you don't have to fight him in ME3 at the Cerberus base and so you can do his loyalty mission and have the argument between Legion and Tali to resolve through Charm or Intimidate, contributing to the peace process.

--I actually had to check my own ME3 Paragon save to make sure, but the Mass Effect Wikia was previously missing a detail and I've changed it accordingly. Saving David from Project Overlord gets you a +5 boost to Kahlee Sanders, BUT it turns out you can still get Dr. Gavin Archer as a War Asset worth 25 as long as you don't let Grissom Academy fall (and David die) and you don't choose to make Gavin worry. So doing the Paragon decision in Project Overlord actually gets you Dr. Gavin Archer + 25 and David + 5 for "net gain" of + 30, while doing the Renegade decision in Project Overlord only gets you Dr. Gavin Archer + 25.

--This one's conditional: If Kasumi didn't survive Mass Effect 2, then she's not around to save the hanar and drell homeworld for you when Regards The Works Of The Enkindlers In Despair attempts to infect it with a computer virus. So you're forced to choose between saving Jondum Bau from the thug strangling him or saving the hanar and drell homeworld. I think saving the hanar and drell homeworld is the Paragon choice, so in this case the paragon choice is better, since Hanar and Drell Forces are either 50 (by themselves) or 58 (if you did the hanar medi-gel sidequest), while Spectre Unit is only 40.

--During the Aria: Blue Suns mission, it's ultimately better to agree to Oraka's request instead of killing him; sure it takes longer, but that way you can get morality points from talking to Kannik as well, not just from talking to Oraka.

--Giving Joker and EDI's relationship your blessing. There's no payoff for breaking them up, and you get more dialogue if you encourage them to become romantically involved.

--If in your save peace between geth and quarians is impossible for any reason (like you forgot to do Legion's geth server mission for example), and if you rewrote the geth heretics, you're better off taking the Paragon choice of siding with the geth since rewriting gave them a boost, even if this means either Tali jumps off a cliff or Raan shoots herself in the head.

--If you want Shepard to survive the game's ending, it's better to pick "Destroy" when the Catalyst asks you what to do with the Reapers.

Renegade choices that pay off better:

--Killing Rana Thanoptis in ME1, MAYBE. If you kill her there she won't kill several asari officials in ME3. But this screws you out of a couple of Paragon or Renegade points you can get from dialogue options with her in ME2. So to borrow a phrase from TV Tropes, Your Mileage May Vary.

--For Earthborn Shepards, sparing Finch, which is why I only listed Spacer and Colonist choices under Paragon superior choices. Killing Finch results in no payoff, but if you spare Finch you get an e-mail from him cheering you on in ME2.

--This one's conditional: if you already killed the ME1 rachni queen, in that case the correct choice is to kill the Reapers' artificial replacement and save Aralakh Company. The artificial queen betrays you and takes away the rachni workers and sharply decreases Alliance Engineering Corps' strength, which is astronomically not worth weakening Aralakh Company.

--You're better off telling Dr. Chakwas to stay in the labs so she can become a War Asset, but it's a renegade choice.

--In terms of War Assets, it's better to tell Kaidan or Ashley not to come aboard the Normandy, but you lose out on possible Reputation and Morality points if you do this, and this costs you a romance opportunity.

--If Wreav is the Urdnot leader, it's better to go Renegade and let the sabotage of the cure go unfixed. Wreav won't find out, won't take away any War Assets, and you'll get the Salarian 1st Fleet asset worth 150. This particular War Asset isn't worth it if Wrex turns on you and takes away hundreds and hundreds of Assets, but since Wreav doesn't give you any advantages like Krogan Mercenaries 75, and since you can get a +150 advantage, with Wreav in charge leaving the genophage unfixed is the better choice. In fact, in terms of absolutely PURE MATH, Renegade-with-Wreav-in-charge actually gives you the strongest boost. That's because the two "strongest" outcomes are Wrex in charge and curing the genophage, which gives you a total net gain of +75, and Wreav in charge and not curing the genophage, which gives you a total net gain of +150. The latter outcome is the best choice if you only care about pure numbers.

--Again, like I said under Paragon, you're ultimately better off saving Maelon's data since Eve's loss is more than the possible gain of Mordin Solus. But if you really want Mordin as a War Asset, it's better to destroy Maelon's data.

--Letting Garrus kill Sidonis. If Sidonis survives ultimately nothing comes of it; Sidonis attempts to turn himself in, but it's unsure whether or not he can be convicted since he committed his betrayal on Omega, which is out of the Council's jurisdiction. So Sidonis ends up being unable to redeem himself after all; maybe Garrus putting Sidonis out of his misery to end his sleepless nights is the right idea.

--This one's conditional: If you don't have enough morality points to use "Charm" or "Intimidate" during Tali's trial, and if you haven't met the conditions for Rally the Crowd, the only options you have are to either keep silent about your findings and let Tali be exiled, or reveal Rael's crimes to exonerate Tali but lose her loyalty. If you're in this bind and can't persuade or rally your way out, ultimately the Renegade choice of revealing Rael's crimes is the better one, since you need Tali non-exiled for peace. It'll cost you Tali's loyalty, but if you manage to keep her alive through the Suicide mission anyway the quarian/geth peace process is better off.

--Destroying the heretic geths instead of rewriting them during Legion's loyalty mission. If you rewrite the heretics, you get a geth boost of +150 but a quarian subtraction of -150. If you destroy the heretics, you get a geth subtraction of -150 but a quarian boost of +150. But destroying the geth heretics has the additional advantage of contributing a couple of points to the quarian/geth peace process.

--Saving the Collector Base at the Illusive Man's suggestion instead of destroying it. Destroying the Collector Base eventually gives you a Reaper Heart 100 War Asset while saving the Collector Base gives you a Reaper Brain 110 War Asset.

--This one's conditional: If Zaeed didn't survive Mass Effect 2, or if he survived but wasn't loyal so he dies before you can talk to Din Korlack, then instead of getting "Charm" or "Intimidate" to get the best of both worlds you're forced to either make Din Korlack confess the location of the turian colony Cerberus is going to attack, against Korlack's will so he won't give you any war assets, or agree to Din Korlack's bribe of a Volus Bombing Fleet +75 at the cost of -10 from Turian Sixth Fleet. In this case, the Renegade option of accepting the volus bombing fleet is ultimately better than choosing to save the turian colony, since +75 - 10 is still a net gain of 65.

--It's better to pick the Renegade choice of telling Jack's students they're ready to attack the Reapers; that way they'll form a Biotic Company that's numerically worth more than the boost to 103rd Marine Division they give if you tell them the Alliance needs them for support only.

--Asking Kelly Chambers to change her identity so Cerberus won't shoot her when they come by her area. This particular Renegade choice not only results in a War Asset payoff, it's absolutely necessary for players who wish to romance Kelly.

--Supporting the Dock Officer over the Refugee. True you get Reputation points instead of Paragon/Renegade for either one, but in order to boost the Citadel Defense Force instead of weakening it you have to support turning the refugee and his whole family away.

--Supporting the Angry C-Sec Officer over the Patient C-Sec Officer.

--Agreeing to buy James' whole group a round of drinks (which is itself a Renegade choice since Paragon says you'd rather not) and then taking the Renegade interrupt to finish the chant. You get +2 Reputation either way, but you get more James dialogue if you go Renegade here.

--Supporting Xen over Tali when they argue. You get a War Asset boost if you support Xen, while all you get if you support Tali is +2 Paragon.

--If in your save peace between geth and quarians is impossible for any
reason (like you forgot to do Legion's geth server mission for example),
and if you destroyed the geth heretics, you're better off taking the
Renegade choice of siding with the quarians since destroying the heretics gave the quarians a
boost, even if this means having to kill Legion.

[Doom Lich]

I don't think you get it. There's always going to be a choice that gives more in the way of palpable rewards. But War assets, paragon/renegade/reputation points, credits, aren't the only thing that exists in the Mass effect universe. More philisophical rewards such as morality and reputation exist. I play my Shephard to demonstrate their moral principals, never to get the biggest score at the end. (Read: E-Penis)
There's also the matter of impact on the universe the game ties you into. Sure, killing Mordin will objectively get me less war assets, but there's so many issues tied into both the morality of killing one of my Shephard's best friends, and the potential ramifications on future generations of having unhindered Krogan proliferation. So I killed Mordin. Am I objectively wrong?
I know your not trying to make a point with this thread. I'm just venting because I feel it insults the depth of the game series to play for the "Best ending" rather than for a genuine roleplaying experience. Moreso than the endings could ever insult the series. I guess I'm just pissy today.

[MartialArtsMaster]

I apologize, Doom Lich. I can see how I gave the impression that I was a scoremonger.

If you'll allow me to try again, I promise that's the furthest thing from the truth. This list is just for people who are trying to "test out" Shepards and what the consequences are; I just wanted to make some of their decisions easier.

I myself haven't tested everything out yet, once I do, I'll play according to principles too.

[Doom Lich]

It's cool. As I said. I'm just in a pissy mood today. I can't actually imagine anyone playing as a scoremonger. Mostly because it seems like every single person who plays I've talked to has scolded me for killing Mordin.

[MartialArtsMaster]

Doom Lich wrote...

It's cool. As I said. I'm just in a pissy mood today. I can't actually imagine anyone playing as a scoremonger. Mostly because it seems like every single person who plays I've talked to has scolded me for killing Mordin.

Then my list should actually help you, since the only way to save Mordin is for Eve to die, but Eve's loss is greater than what you gain from Mordin.

[Doom Lich]

MartialArtsMaster wrote...

Doom Lich wrote...

It's cool. As I said. I'm just in a pissy mood today. I can't actually imagine anyone playing as a scoremonger. Mostly because it seems like every single person who plays I've talked to has scolded me for killing Mordin.

Then my list should actually help you, since the only way to save Mordin is for Eve to die, but Eve's loss is greater than what you gain from Mordin.

I actually know that, but that involves killing Wrex on Virmire, when I feel there is literally zero point to doing so. (Yes, I know. I kill him anyway.) (Also, eve dies in my game anyway.)

But my moral compass' interesting direction is rather off topic. Thank you though.

Modifié par Doom Lich, 30 mars 2012 - 04:48 .

[MartialArtsMaster]

Doom Lich wrote...

MartialArtsMaster wrote...

Doom Lich wrote...

It's cool. As I said. I'm just in a pissy mood today. I can't actually imagine anyone playing as a scoremonger. Mostly because it seems like every single person who plays I've talked to has scolded me for killing Mordin.

Then my list should actually help you, since the only way to save Mordin is for Eve to die, but Eve's loss is greater than what you gain from Mordin.

I actually know that, but that involves killing Wrex on Virmire, when I feel there is literally zero point to doing so. (Yes, I know. I kill him anyway.) (Also, eve dies in my game anyway.)

But my moral compass' interesting direction is rather off topic. Thank you though.

No, what I meant was my list should help you defend yourself against the Mordin fans who scold you for killing him, since I've proven that there's a greater advantage in letting Eve live and Mordin die.

[Intax]

Good list. I am curious about the Dr. Chakwas decision though. If Chakwas is on the Normandy she eventually gives you a quest for improved Medi-Gel which is a war asset boost. Is there something else going on there? I was actually thinking about that, if you save Dr. Michel from Fist's thugs in ME1 will she take Chakwas' place and give the Medi-Gel quest anyway?

[incinerator950]

I've been an ass through both ME 1 and ME 2 and Conrad still gave me the dissertation...granted I did his quest, but still it counts when I threaten him, and then shoot him in the foot.

Keeping or destroying the Collector Base influences the Destroy or Control ending.  Keeping lowers the EMS score to save Earth, Destroy vice versa. 

Saving Sidonis, Maelon, Aresh, Rana, Fist, Helena Blake, and a few other people actually don't contribute anything more than emails.  Your reputation doesn't go up, and War Assets don't go up or down.  Emails are trivially worthless, but talking to Steve Cortez, Kelly, and Shiala is more beneficial.  Their emails actually give you War Assets. 

Sparing Shiala and saving the Colonists is well worth it.  Sparing Balak and convincing him to help you in ME 3, is more beneficial.  

Saving the Geth Heretics is mutually equal to destroying them.  Even if you save them, you can just do a few more missions.  Admiral Koris is significantly more important then the dozen survivors of his crew, and the Geth Prime Platoon is worth saving the Live Ships from Geth Fighters. 

Believe me, you should have enough Reputation to persuade the Geth and Quarians to peace with the right conditions.  Persuading TIM to do anything requires you have enough reputation throughout the game when you talk to him.  Again, easier than either ME 1 or ME 2 persuasion checks.  

Modifié par incinerator950, 30 mars 2012 - 10:39 .