58 réponses à ce sujet

[Sporothrix]

Rykoth wrote...
As a storyteller, one has to define their characters. Defining them all to be say, bisexual, is a huge mistake. It's not realistic, not believable, and kind of silly. 

No one is saying that they all should be "turned" bisexual. But since Kaidan was "turned" bi, it's unfair that Ashely didn't, especially since lesbian options we got are of much lower value (in terms of development when it comes to Samantha or portrayal when it comes to Liara) then gay male options.

Rykoth wrote...
Each character has their own identity. It doesn't matter how you feel Bioware handled their character for the sake of this argument, but each character has their own identity. Period.

Sorry, but THAT is silly. They completely changed Ashley from down to earth believable female soldier into dolly who goes into battle on high heels, strong makeup and loose (in fashionable style of course) hair (which interfere while shooting and that's the reason why real life soldiers have to keep them tied or cut). But of course you don't notice that for a sake of your argument...

Modifié par misoretu9, 31 mars 2012 - 01:58 .

[CptData]

To defent Rykoth & Ashley misoretu9:

You can pick a combat-worthy outfit for Ash - the armor.

Actually, Ashley's character got pretty much damaged - and not 'cause her looks. It's the lack of content outside her well done romance scenes. She's just there. No interaction with the crew, nearly no lines, neither on board of the Normandy nor while on missions.

Compared to the "old Ashley" in ME1, the "new Ashley" is too silent, too introverted and feels not like Ash in most cases.

And that's NOT looks related. It's just how she feels. Seems the good writer did her romance scenes - and the bad one the rest. Which means 80% of Ashley's time ...

[Sporothrix]

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

First, it's not in her character.

Second: Those interested in a female gay relationship, had Liara in ME1. So that option is already filled.

Each sexe has 2 gay options.

Femshep: Liara, Traynor
Manshep: Kaidan, Cortez.

Are you saying that Casey Hudson lied when he said that Liara is not lesbian romance option?

And when it comes to Traynor, like I said, there's barely any dialogue with her. It looks worse even then fling with Kelly in ME2. If they would put similar effort into her romance development as they did to Steve Cortez's, and take back somehow Hudson's words which completely cheapened romance with Liara and turned it to mere "Discount lesbian" option, propably people would not feel as mistreated and would have less problem with a fact that Ashley is not lesbian romance option.


 

CptData wrote...
You can pick a combat-worthy outfit for Ash - the armor.

High heels (yes, even in armor, which is ridiculous), strong makeup and loose hair remain (unless she wears a helmet). And that armor looks ridiculous on its own anyway. Like body paint on a naked woman with unreal proportions. If there is any plate in this armor, then there's barely any flesh under it.

Modifié par misoretu9, 31 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[SparkyRich]

Technically Liara isn't a lesbian. She's not technically a "she" either. Liara just looks like an extremely hot human female. Asari only have one gender - actually, it reminds me of a book I read a long time ago - The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. LeGuinn - though the species in question there looked more gender neutral except during their fertile cycles.

[Mrxknown]

misoretu9 wrote...

Rykoth wrote...
As a storyteller, one has to define their characters. Defining them all to be say, bisexual, is a huge mistake. It's not realistic, not believable, and kind of silly. 

No one is saying that they all should be "turned" bisexual. But since Kaidan was "turned" bi, it's unfair that Ashely didn't, especially since lesbian options we got are of much lower value (in terms of development when it comes to Samantha or portrayal when it comes to Liara) then gay male options.

Rykoth wrote...
Each character has their own identity. It doesn't matter how you feel Bioware handled their character for the sake of this argument, but each character has their own identity. Period.

Sorry, but THAT is silly. They completely changed Ashley from down to earth believable female soldier into dolly who goes into battle on high heels, strong makeup and loose (in fashionable style of course) hair (which interfere while shooting and that's the reason why real life soldiers have to keep them tied or cut). But of course you don't notice that for a sake of your argument...

I agree with your sentiments. If each character was defined, then Kaiden would have been romancable in ME1 and in ME2 you could have told Kelly you loved him or had an interest. Nope.

BioWare had 2 years for ME3 and slightly more than 2 years to develop ME2. Yet they continue to change characters not because they are defined, but because they decided to.

Who cares if one group wasn't as vocal as another. I went to college, I got a 40 hour a week job now. I'm not going to spend my free time campaigning for BioWare to treat their audiences' desires equally. They already know we want that, they CHOOSE not to listen. Or they choose to cherry-pick.

I'm actually surprised they included two gay characters, considering 4+ years ago they removed it from the first game.

[Terraforming2154]

CptData wrote...

Actually, Ashley's character got pretty much damaged - and not 'cause her looks. It's the lack of content outside her well done romance scenes. She's just there. No interaction with the crew, nearly no lines, neither on board of the Normandy nor while on missions.

Compared to the "old Ashley" in ME1, the "new Ashley" is too silent, too introverted and feels not like Ash in most cases.

And that's NOT looks related. It's just how she feels. Seems the good writer did her romance scenes - and the bad one the rest. Which means 80% of Ashley's time ...

Well, that sucks on all counts then. I really thought that players that had femshep were the only ones getting shafted in regards to Ashley.

I didn't need to romance her (though I really wanted to), but I seriously wanted her back as a friend. She felt like one in ME1 & even ME2 - I considered her to be the person my Shepard cared the most about.

I was so disappointed with how...detatched she felt. I wish she had had scenes like Liara did - like where Liara came to check up on Shep after one of the nightmares, or some variant of Liara's project. Something, anything, more than just that damn drunk scene on the Normandy and the little bit on the Citadel.

Modifié par Terraforming2154, 02 avril 2012 - 06:42 .

[CptData]

Interestingly enough, it seems as if a lot of her content got cut OR bugged out OR dummied out at some point. There are several unused lines in the files hinting Ash had a lot of additional dialogues (similar lines are found in the leaked script) and at least one additional romance scene.

Since Gabby+Ken got bugged dialogue I wonder if Ashley's dialogue is bugged as well. In that case, BW simply needs to patch the game and re-introduce that dialogue(s).

But even then Ash has significantly less dialogue than Garrus and Liara have in the second half of the game.

[flamingplatypus]

HopHazzard wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Kellleth wrote...

I think Ash is a devoted Christian, so it would be out of character.
But I really have no idea, I didn't make the game =P

As a devoted Christian man that is also gay I find your argument invalid.

Ashley also never says what faith she is.

Seconded. I am a Christian and a homosexual. The two are not mutually exclusive.

My bro's fiance would like to join in as well. Contrary to popular belief, not all Chrisitan denominations condemn homosexuality.

[Sporothrix]

SparkyRich wrote...

Technically Liara isn't a lesbian. She's not technically a "she" either. Liara just looks like an extremely hot human female. Asari only have one gender - actually, it reminds me of a book I read a long time ago - The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. LeGuinn - though the species in question there looked more gender neutral except during their fertile cycles.

Since ME1 Codex all games say you're wrong. But that has little matter. Romance with Liara is forever cheapened for such stance which was even presented by no one else then Casey Hudson, project director. By not doing anything about it and introducing such underdeveloped additional romance, compared to options gay men got, Bioware shows where they have equality and their lesbian fans.