317 réponses à ce sujet

[Rabid Rooster]

The Angry One wrote...

I still believe that the fleet would've won at high EMS, the Reapers are not invincible. Just because the ground war was lost means nothing (fighting a ground war without air superiority is a futile waste of resources anyway).
My Shep would've told that little punk that it can shove it's choices, the war ends today one way or another by our choices, not his.

Pretty much this, after telling the brat to f*** off.

[Caz Tirin]

Hexley UK wrote...

*Throws spacebrat into option B*
S:Joker come pick me up
J:Be right there commander
S:Take me back to earth, lets finish this ****
J:Aye aye commander
*Sheperd lands back on earth and dons new armour and calls all units to his position*
*Banzai charge Harbinger with Sheperd and krogan at the fore front*
* **** his **** up bad with my awesomeness and overt l33titude.*
*Reapers run in fear*
*Massive party inside Harby's skull*
*Get laid with Tali waifu*

The End

The only thing I'd change would be to add Liara into the final line. 

[OhoniX]

All the people claiming the Reapers can or cannot be defeated
conventionally confuse me. It is whatever the writer says it is,
obviously.

Sure, but the writers have made it perfectly clear that a conventional victory is impossible. To make it be otherwise would not only require rewriting the last five minutes, but rewriting pretty much the entire game! It'd be the equivalent of having a football (American) movie in which the underdogs are behind 70-3 with five minutes to go, and they decide "we're going to win this one on points!" It's just not going to happen. The only way to make it happen would be to rewrite the entire previous game such that the other team hadn't gotten 67 points ahead.

Even if there had been some theoretical chance of defeating the Reapers conventionally before Operation Sword started, after it there's ab****ely no chance, because they've already committed most of their forces and are on their last legs by the time Shepard activates the Crucible. If at that point Shepard ordered a final charge, they'd be annihilated. If she ordered a retreat, they would limp away with a skeleton force that would stand no chance in any sort of future engagement, likely incapable of taking out even a single Reaper Cruiser.

I would have ordered Hackett to blow up the citadel with me on it. Then I
would have said my goodbyes to my crew and LI through the radio. That's
a bittersweet ending Bioware.

And then the Reapers would kill everyone. Yay.

*Shepard and the Normandy take off, the combined fleet destroys the
Citadel including Starchild, and the Reapers everywhere blow apart, and a
big celebration (followed by a big galactic-wide funeral...) takes
place, with lots of booze, dancing and ... private anti-stress-therapy
for the saviour of the galaxy*

Neither the Citadel nor the Catalyst are necessary for the Reapers to win. In fact, if you do nothing at the end of the game then after a while the Citadel blows up by itself, which is considered a "bad end" because there is not nothing in the galaxy that can stop the Reapers. Your "perfect ending" is already in the game. Enjoy.

I'd have had the fleet make a full retreat through the Charon Relay and
sent one ship on a suicide run into it. Sol and most of the Reaper
forces would have been destroyed, but most of the allied fleet would
have survived, and have a fighting chance in a war of attrition against
the Reapers in other systems.

Now THAT is a bittersweet ending:
risk the extinction of organic life in order to save Earth, or sacrifice
Earth and almost all of humanity in order to give the other races the
best possible fighting chance against the Reapers. I think my Shepard
would have made this choice.

That's actually a good plan, but they don't have the logistics to pull it off. The only known way to destroy a relay is to ram a truly gigantic rock into it, like basically a moon of Pluto or something, and setting that up for the Alpha Relay took months of work. It's not something they could just throw together at the last minute.

On a more serious note, there weren't any paragon choices available
at the end. A paragon Shepard would have let the chips fall where they
may and chanced a conventional confrontation with the reapers.

No, even Paragon Shep sometimes had to make sacrifices for the great good, she was just less willing to do so when it wasn't strictly necessary.

Seems like we've reached an impasse. What I hear is: "I would not
accept it even if the writers said 'this is so'", but I am saying that
most people would accept it if the writers said "this is so" regarding
the ability to face the Reapers conventionally.

It would be bad writing though. It would make hypocrits out of everyone that claimed that they are upset because the existing endings "go against the previous series," because for the allies to be capable of just "beating up" the Reapers would definitely go against everything about the rest of the series. It would be the equivalent of having a Superman movie in which Lex Luthor just beats him up with his bare hands, no Kryptonite, no red sun, no fancy gadgets, he just starts wiling on the man of steel and inexplicably it works. They stress time after time throughout the series that a concentional victory is impossible, that it can only be through an unconventional means that they could possibly pull this one out, so any ending that involved a conventional victory would completely take the wind out of the game.

The writers can write whatever they want, but that doesn't make it good writing.

[parrmi22]

I would have punted that little brat right off the Citadel. Then I would have called Joker, activated the Crucible, got the hell off the Citadel, rejoiced as the Reapers died horribly, settled down with Liara, have lots of lil' blue babies. End.

[Kalas82]

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

All the people claiming the Reapers can or cannot be defeated conventionally confuse me. It is whatever the writer says it is, obviously. The way the ending is now they cannot, but a few tweaks here and there towards the end and they would be. Saying one thing while showing another is a common film writing technique. Remember the suicide mission. Everyone said "we won't be coming back from this" yet, here Shepard is....

I don`t see logic there. What you see in cutscenes, in the game itself is written by the Bioware-team, why should the logic implented there not be valid?
Besides you hear from ME1 to ME3 that the reapers always won by surprise attacks, by dividing the enemys forces through shutting down the relays none of this happens in ME3. If you take their first attack on the citadel minus the geth (which are now on ur side) you saw even back then how they were not "sure doom" anymore.
With the fleets gettin their new tech and cannons trough ME2 and 3 i`m sure that the "canon" of the game you actualy played points to conventional whinning the battle for earth. When i look at all the war-assets in my playtrough and compare them to what happened in ME1...my Shep wouldn`t even bother to listen to Space-God for more than a minute.
Even when you look at the reapers ground-battle-forces they seem pathetic week in ME3, their biggest thingys just needs 2 rockets befor it explodes, how many reaper-goon-forces have you killed in ur ME3 playtrough?


Which is how i would`ve created the ending,
if your ems is to low -> a bad ending
if you ems is high enough -> a good ending with heavy losses
if you ems is extreme high -> a good ending with fewer losses

keep it simple = win

Modifié par Kalas82, 01 avril 2012 - 07:35 .

[Slash1667]

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

My Shep would start ripping up pannels and pulling out wires.

Starchild: "What are you doing?! Don't touch that!"
Shepard: "Why not? What's this doohicky do?"
(rips out a circuit board)
Starchild: "AAAAAAAAAAH!"
Shepard: "Guess that was important, huh?"
Starchild: "WHY?! WHY WAS I PROGRAMMED TO FEEL PAIN?!"

Nice Iron Man reference

[ElMuchu]

Vox Draco wrote...

lordnyx1 wrote...

S:Yo Hackett you still there?
H: Aye.
S: I've located the Reaper's leader, would you be so kind to send a shuttle to pick me up and synch all the fleets weaponry on this location.
H: Sure...

Shepard's shuttle zooms off as many colorful explosions appear...

hehe...that indeed would have been my perfect Ending...let's get into detail then!

Starchild: The reapers are my solution. With them I stop Synthetics from wiping out organics.
Shepard: So this makes you basically their leader? You are responsible for all this?
Starchild: Yes. But for good reasons...
Shepard: Yeah, right. Hackett?
Hackett: You're still alive?
Shepard: Sure. What did you think of me? *laughs* I am not killed that easily !
Starchild: Would you please listen to what...
Shepard: Please, Casper...be quiet while adults are talking...
Starchild: But I am billions of years old!
Shepard: And still you behave like some spoiled brat. And you committed mass-genocide. Damn, you make me sick!
Starchild: But for good reasons! And I will show you ways to end all this! If you just...
Hackett: Commander, everything alright?
Shepard: Yes. Just some interferences. You know what? Forget the crucible, I found the Reaper's leader. Just use my coordinates and blow everything here including the citadel to smithereens. But pick me up first!
Hackett: Alright, no problem. The normandy is underway.
Shepard: Great. *sighs* I can't wait to get a drink. *thinking to herself* And then? I hope Kaidan's ready, willing and able, because I'll need some serious anti-stress-therapy after this...*grins*
Starchild: Ahem, hey, listen to me! You cannot ignore me! I am the CATALYST! I AM THE SOLUTION!
Shepard: Oh, you're still here? *looks at incoming Normandy* Well, I am outta here! Good luck, Casper,  
Starchild: But...but...Synthesis...Control...my solution....*explosions* ... But it would have been...so artistically done! *more explosions, fade to black*

*Shepard and the Normandy take off, the combined fleet destroys the Citadel including Starchild, and the Reapers everywhere blow apart, and a big celebration (followed by a big galactic-wide funeral...) takes place, with lots of booze, dancing and ... private anti-stress-therapy for the saviour of the galaxy*

could be a good ending indeed.

[Clayless]

Kalas82 wrote...

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

All the people claiming the Reapers can or cannot be defeated conventionally confuse me. It is whatever the writer says it is, obviously. The way the ending is now they cannot, but a few tweaks here and there towards the end and they would be. Saying one thing while showing another is a common film writing technique. Remember the suicide mission. Everyone said "we won't be coming back from this" yet, here Shepard is....

I don`t see logic there. What you see in cutscenes, in the game itself is written by the Bioware-team, why should the logic implented there not be valid?
Besides you hear from ME1 to ME3 that the reapers always won by surprise attacks, by dividing the enemys forces through shutting down the relays none of this happens in ME3. If you take their first attack on the citadel minus the geth (which are now on ur side) you saw even back then how they were not "sure doom" anymore.
With the fleets gettin their new tech and cannons trough ME2 and 3 i`m sure that the "canon" of the game you actualy played points to conventional whinning the battle for earth. When i look at all the war-assets in my playtrough and compare them to what happened in ME1...my Shep wouldn`t even bother to listen to Space-God for more than a minute.
Even when you look at the reapers ground-battle-forces they seem pathetic week in ME3, their biggest thingys just needs 2 rockets befor it explodes, how many reaper-goon-forces have you killed in ur ME3 playtrough?


Which is how i would`ve created the ending,
if your ems is to low -> a bad ending
if you ems is high enough -> a good ending with heavy losses
if you ems is extreme high -> a good ending with fewer losses

keep it simple = win

The only reason their ground forces seem pathetic and weak is because Shepard can soak up damage like he's some sort of computer game protaganist or something.

Once it hits cutscenes, and starts running into the more realistic approach, the Reapers would decimate the galaxies forces. A lot of people think "Well it only takes X amount to kill a Reaper" but most people fail to remember that it only takes ONE Reaper blast to wipe out ANY ship the galaxy can throw at it. There's no way the galaxies forces would be able to defeat the Reapers.

Seriously, once the Crucible fell, the whole galaxy would be doomed, and all the infinite life in the galaxy would be Reaper until the end of time.

[nicksmi56]

Everyone seems to forget that everyone and their mother now has thannix cannons

[nicksmi56]

Also, about the Reaper blasts, it's calles 'dodging'. It can get you out of trouble

[Clayless]

nicksmi56 wrote...

Everyone seems to forget that everyone and their mother now has thannix cannons

Don't forget Thannix Cannons are just smaller, crapper versions of the Reaper weapons, and the only ships nimble enough to dodge the Reapers lasers are the ones small enough to be threatened greately by the Oculus.

Sure they could dodge them too, but if dodging was the way to win you've found the biggest flaw in every fight ever.

[wright1978]

AshenSugar wrote...

Let's imagine your Shepard was standing, facing 'Star Child', he'd been given those free nihilistic choices....

... Only this time, the boundaries and limitations of the game had been removed and you were free to act as you saw fit, according to his character.


In my own situation, Shepard would have basically told 'Star Child' to, "go to hell" in regard to destroying all Synthetics, and the Mass Relays, refusing to compromise until another way had been revealed.

He'd have interrogated Star Child, trying to find answers...and if Star KId refused to comply, he'd  probably have ignored the trap of the three choices, and just radioed the fleet with an order to push forward the attack and blow The Reapers to hell with everything they had!

Even if it resulted in utter defeat, it may at very least, have lessened the Reapers' numbers, and bought time for the rest of the galaxy.

Under no circumstances would he have accepted any scenario in which all Mass Effect relays were destroyed, nor would he have blindly taken 'Star Child's explanation on pure faith, and accepted the three solutions as the only solutions.

Yep this. Listening and trusting a genocidal space hitler of a character, no thanks. I'd prefer to go down swinging.

[navi88hh]

Shepard: I've Had Enough of your Disingenuous Assertions: * Bang!

- Wakes up from indoctrination -

[E_rik]

Shepard: Catylyst, I have one question for you.
C: What?
S: Does a set of all sets contain itself?
C:... *Frizzes*
(Cutscene of Reapers falling to Earth)

[Edrick1976]

I would have told him to F*&K OFF and I would have told the fleet that we will win or loss this the old fashion way....

[mirage2154]

There is alway the other way, we will fight, we will die and we will sacrifice until we find out. To the last man!!!

[nicksmi56]

@Our_Last_Scene If the Reapers are truly unbeatable (even though I have my doubts since they basically kill all organic life by using a back door, plus the battle scene you get if you get really high EMS which shows Reapers dying) I'd rather die fighting and giving future races a better chance by taking out as many of the bastards as I can and leaving a warning than giving in to the enemy's demands. Plus the fact that you do much more damage than the Reapers would have. The ending is basically telling me "Life is meaningless. Nothing you do matters and why you try to help you'll make things much worse. You might as well just roll over and die right now."

[Fenrisfil]

I would have pointed out the flaws in logic of the Starchild, gave him a bit of a talk on the rights of species to carve their own path, that nothing is inevitable and that no solution will always be 100%. I would have pointed out the great strides that have happened in this cycle and how they demonstrate that Synthetics can develop peacefully alongside organics.

Then if it still refused to listened to reason I would have pointed out that if he controls the Reapers and lives in the Citadel, which is part of him, perhaps all I need to do is get the fleets to focus on destroying the Citadel and it would loose control giving the fleet a chance to take out the confused Reapers.

"But you'll die!"
"Yes, but this time I do it on MY terms!"

[Clayless]

nicksmi56 wrote...

@Our_Last_Scene If the Reapers are truly unbeatable (even though I have my doubts since they basically kill all organic life by using a back door, plus the battle scene you get if you get really high EMS which shows Reapers dying) I'd rather die fighting and giving future races a better chance by taking out as many of the bastards as I can and leaving a warning than giving in to the enemy's demands. Plus the fact that you do much more damage than the Reapers would have. The ending is basically telling me "Life is meaningless. Nothing you do matters and why you try to help you'll make things much worse. You might as well just roll over and die right now."

You wouldn't give future races a fighting chance though. The Reapers would just reset the signal and go back to doing things the old fashioned way, AKA coming through the Citadel and switching off all the Relays.

Leaving warnings wouldn't work, it didn't work for the thoudands of civilisations beforehand and it never worked for this one.

[nicksmi56]

@Our_Last_Scene Pardon me if I don't buy into defeatist logic in a series that has made a point of telling me that impossible things are possible. Betraying key themes doesn't really work in the last act of a trilogy XD

[Clayless]

nicksmi56 wrote...

@Our_Last_Scene Pardon me if I don't buy into defeatist logic in a series that has made a point of telling me that impossible things are possible. Betraying key themes doesn't really work in the last act of a trilogy XD

You can't come up with a way to defeat the Reapers. Complaining about the Catalyst but not being able to find an alternative yourself is ridiculous.

Not buying itno logic is fine, you would just let the Reapers kill everyone forever, they don't care if you buy into it.

[nicksmi56]

@Our_Last_Scene As my Shepard would say, "No! I'm not taking these thinly veiled self- destruction choices of yours! We will sit here and watch as my forces take on yours because THIS is the way they would have wanted it to end! I choose what we've always chosen. I choose to take our **** chances! If we die, we'll do it on our terms, not yours!"

[Clayless]

nicksmi56 wrote...

@Our_Last_Scene As my Shepard would say, "No! I'm not taking these thinly veiled self- destruction choices of yours! We will sit here and watch as my forces take on yours because THIS is the way they would have wanted it to end! I choose what we've always chosen. I choose to take our **** chances! If we die, we'll do it on our terms, not yours!"

Actually the forces were there because of the Crucible. Hackett says so himself.

[nicksmi56]

@Our_Last_Scene Also, is it odd that I can match everything you just said to what a Loyalist would tell a Patriot in the American Revolution exactly? XD just thought about it lol

[Clayless]

nicksmi56 wrote...

@Our_Last_Scene Also, is it odd that I can match everything you just said to what a Loyalist would tell a Patriot in the American Revolution exactly? XD just thought about it lol

I don't know about your wars, I do not know that analogy, but anyway:

Shepard the Crucible isn't doing anything!

Actually Hackett it's giving me the option to destroy the Reapers.

Then do it!

No. I want to doom the galaxy forever.

WHY?!?!

Because I think we can beat the Reapers normally for some reason.

WE CAN'T SHEPARD, HAVEN'T YOU BEEN PAYING ATTENTION?!?!

Bye Hackett.