158 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

My opinion?

They are good at getting traffic. Darn good.

I understand both arguments, I believe in artistic integrity but I also believe in customer oriented work. Merging the two isn't easy but Bioware has my confidence.

I do NOT want the current endings to be axed/replaced. I want them expanded. If additional endings are thrown in, fine. Just as long as there are no "Happily ever after" fluff balls. That would leave ME "gutted".

[Montana]

Great article (as usual)!

[chevyguy87]

"But hiding behind the skirts of ‘artistic integrity’ is just a terrible business decision."

That one line... I believe Bioware has a rare chance to redeem themselves and to revitalize it's fan base as well as restoring trust in the company. I find it to be a poor decision if they squander this opportunity. In the mean time I will continue to see how this fiasco unfolds. Forbes has become a shining beacon of hope for me.

[Seival]

Baronesa wrote...

E.D. Kain made another article.

Link: Forbes article


What is your opinion?

One more article that BioWare should read carefully.

[txmn1016]

chevyguy87 wrote...

"But hiding behind the skirts of ‘artistic integrity’ is just a terrible business decision."

That one line... I believe Bioware has a rare chance to redeem themselves and to revitalize it's fan base as well as restoring trust in the company. I find it to be a poor decision if they squander this opportunity. In the mean time I will continue to see how this fiasco unfolds. Forbes has become a shining beacon of hope for me.

I agree.  "Artistic integrity" shouldn't mean (in video games) never changing anything about your work due to fan scrutinization. The very fact that DLC exists (that the artist(s) can add something after the fact to enahnce the experience of the story) makes an expansion of the endings pretty in line with this art form.  I really don't see what the big deal is.  The "artistic integrity" and "dangerous precedent" arguements have never made sense to me.

[Nyctyris]

I read the article a few hours ago and liked it. I really wish Yahtzee could see it though, but I bet he never even knows about it.

[Ice Cold J]

Modifié par Ice Cold J, 01 avril 2012 - 06:40 .

[chevyguy87]

txmn1016 wrote...

chevyguy87 wrote...

"But hiding behind the skirts of ‘artistic integrity’ is just a terrible business decision."

That one line... I believe Bioware has a rare chance to redeem themselves and to revitalize it's fan base as well as restoring trust in the company. I find it to be a poor decision if they squander this opportunity. In the mean time I will continue to see how this fiasco unfolds. Forbes has become a shining beacon of hope for me.

I agree.  "Artistic integrity" shouldn't mean (in video games) never changing anything about your work due to fan scrutinization. The very fact that DLC exists (that the artist(s) can add something after the fact to enahnce the experience of the story) makes an expansion of the endings pretty in line with this art form.  I really don't see what the big deal is.  The "artistic integrity" and "dangerous precedent" arguements have never made sense to me.

I agree with you as well sir. As far as I'm concerned wouldn't them altering/changing the ending via DLC or otherwise be a win-win for the fans and the company? They fix their mistake, we forgive them and enjoy the masterpiece they have put together. They win back the fans' trust and we continue to purchase their products. So like you and so many others, I do not see what the big deal is. 

[Xivai]

Forbes you've done it again. Another amazing news article. Or would that be an opinion piece? At any rate great job!

[BWGungan]

Winner.

[BWGungan]

Persephone wrote...

My opinion?

They are good at getting traffic. Darn good.

I understand both arguments, I believe in artistic integrity but I also believe in customer oriented work. Merging the two isn't easy but Bioware has my confidence.

I do NOT want the current endings to be axed/replaced. I want them expanded. If additional endings are thrown in, fine. Just as long as there are no "Happily ever after" fluff balls. That would leave ME "gutted".

What happens now leaves ME gutted.  That's the entire problem with the endings.

[RiouHotaru]

iamthedave3 wrote...

You haven't seen any of the decisions, because you're not a staff member. In fact they've made thousands of decisions. PR decisions, budget decisions, time decisions, DLC decisions. Each and every one of these is a corporate decision which affects the game and the game trilogy. And since they came under EA's banner, guess who was making a lot of the PR calls and marketing decisions which have contributed enormously to the game's success?

At least think about the point before going off half-cocked.

You assume EA has been having a direct hand in Bioware's development of Mass Effect, which isn't entirely accurate.  It wasn't EA that put multiplayer into ME3, that was entirely Bioware's doing.  I believe there's an interview with Bioware where they state EA has actually been very hands-OFF of the process with regards to ME3.

[RiouHotaru]

BWGungan wrote...

Persephone wrote...

My opinion?

They are good at getting traffic. Darn good.

I understand both arguments, I believe in artistic integrity but I also believe in customer oriented work. Merging the two isn't easy but Bioware has my confidence.

I do NOT want the current endings to be axed/replaced. I want them expanded. If additional endings are thrown in, fine. Just as long as there are no "Happily ever after" fluff balls. That would leave ME "gutted".

What happens now leaves ME gutted.  That's the entire problem with the endings.

No, it just leaves it vague and open-ended.  Huge difference.  And that gap can be colored in without axing or replacing the current endings.

[darknessmyown]

+1 Internet for Forbes

[Aulis Vaara]

RiouHotaru wrote...

BWGungan wrote...

Persephone wrote...

My opinion?

They are good at getting traffic. Darn good.

I understand both arguments, I believe in artistic integrity but I also believe in customer oriented work. Merging the two isn't easy but Bioware has my confidence.

I do NOT want the current endings to be axed/replaced. I want them expanded. If additional endings are thrown in, fine. Just as long as there are no "Happily ever after" fluff balls. That would leave ME "gutted".

What happens now leaves ME gutted.  That's the entire problem with the endings.

No, it just leaves it vague and open-ended.  Huge difference.  And that gap can be colored in without axing or replacing the current endings.

The ending invalidates the entire plot of Mass Effect 1 among other things, most people would call that "gutted".

[Ratimir]

Juromaro wrote...

I find it funny.....Someone agrees with the Retake movement/bad ending etc and they get praised, yet someone defends the endings or says it wasn't that big of a deal and they are ****s or special ed students because they "glossed" over the endings. Everyone seems to post only articles on why the endings should be changed etc but never an article on why the endings shouldn't be changed.

I'd be happy to post an article on why the endings shouldn't be changed, if there were any that had valid points. Every single one I've seen is made up of one or more of these:
 - "Artisitic Integrity", which the Forbes articles have tackled in depth
 - "Dangerous Precedent"/"Slippery Slope" rubbish. Which the Forbes articles have also addressed.
 - Belittling and insulting the opposition without addressing their concerns.
 - Simple denial that there is anything wrong with the endings.

It seems to me that the reason that there are so few articles posted in support of the original endings is that there are few, if any, that are even remotely objective and intelligent. This in turn suggests that objective and intelligent analysis of the issues leads naturally to the conclusion that the endings should be changed.

[sorentoft]

Ratimir wrote...

Juromaro wrote...

I find it funny.....Someone agrees with the Retake movement/bad ending etc and they get praised, yet someone defends the endings or says it wasn't that big of a deal and they are ****s or special ed students because they "glossed" over the endings. Everyone seems to post only articles on why the endings should be changed etc but never an article on why the endings shouldn't be changed.

I'd be happy to post an article on why the endings shouldn't be changed, if there were any that had valid points. Every single one I've seen is made up of one or more of these:
 - "Artisitic Integrity", which the Forbes articles have tackled in depth
 - "Dangerous Precedent"/"Slippery Slope" rubbish. Which the Forbes articles have also addressed.
 - Belittling and insulting the opposition without addressing their concerns.
 - Simple denial that there is anything wrong with the endings.

It seems to me that the reason that there are so few articles posted in support of the original endings is that there are few, if any, that are even remotely objective and intelligent. This in turn suggests that objective and intelligent analysis of the issues leads naturally to the conclusion that the endings should be changed.

Well said, good sir.

[Skyhawk02]

Lookout1390 wrote...

I never would have expected Forbes-writer to back us like this.

Why?  This guy has been supporting the retakeME3 movement since the beginning, not sure why it would come as a surprise that he is still doing it.

Modifié par Skyhawk02, 01 avril 2012 - 10:31 .

[asagishepherd]

Can i just point out that this would not set a precidence. Its already happened. Broken Steele for Fallout 3 which was mentioned in the article, but there is a game out there that was so bad, an mmo for the artistic vision of square enix named FFXIV. Maybe its not known cause no-one plays it. Its said to have 30k subs. Maybe more, maybe less.

This vision that no-body else could see lead square to keep their pay to play mmo free for a full year. The producer was made/asked to step down and a new producer replaced him. Last time i checked, this artistic vision is now being rewritten to FFXIV 2.0. New engine, new game. So yes it can be done. There is already a precedence. Hell patches, DLC, expansion are a precedence.

[mirage2154]

This is what true journalism is, report, inspire and visions. This can not be achieve without understand of industry, gamers and most importantly the human nature. A great article that I havnt seen for so long,(I may be just ignorant though)

[Wowlock]

Another point for the logical and common sense. Nowadays it is rare to see this kind of news while every other news kinda get twisted around or outright corrupted by self-interest....

[Orumon]

Note that he's looking at it strictly from a business perspective, undercutting the whole 'artistic integrity' commentary (Deus ex Machina being a tired and un-artistic literary convention anyway).

And that he chooses the fans or customers side of the argument as well. Take notes BW.

[ed87]

Forbes needs to slow down with these ME3 articles. If they can thumping them out they will appear to be very biased

Modifié par ed87, 01 avril 2012 - 02:02 .

[sorentoft]

ed87 wrote...

Forbes needs to slow down with these ME3 articles. If they can thumping them out they will appear to be very biased

I disagree. Is a newspaper necessarily biased because it delivers news about an event as it goes along? No. I think they are just about the only business magazine that gives this any light at all. To be honest I find it very refreshing, even if not all of the points made are accurate at times. Compared to many of the gaming journalists the Forbes journalists actually have an idea of what they are talking about and can remain neutral.

[BD Manchild]

This is one article that BioWare should definitely have a good read of. I love how it just speaks straight, smart common sense, something a lot of other commentators on the issue - especially those who defend the endings - fail to grasp.

Anyway, another fantastic Forbes article. Their ME3 coverage has been great, and this amounts to what football fans would call a "hat-trick" (unless they've written more than three articles on the subject, and I've not seen the rest).