478 réponses à ce sujet

[Geneaux486]

Zix13 wrote...
Also that Geneaux486 guy is either trolling or so selective in his opinions it's laughable.

You can call me Gene if you'd like.  Also I'm not either of those things, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion!  Good to meet you though.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 31 mars 2012 - 01:14 .

[NUM13ER]

I don't hate you man. I envy you. If only I felt the same.

[AxisEvolve]

Geneaux486 wrote...
Funny thing is I don't have to pick one.  The so-called "plotholes" are quite debatable, and the ending just as defendable.  This is what I'm talking about.  Yes, it is all subjective, yes, it is a matter of opinion.  The endings are not factually bad, no matter how badly you want them to be.  It's all opinion.   And why is that a bad thing?  I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid, I'm just calling it what it is.  "The way I see it is the way it is and anyone else who sees it a different way is wrong" is narrow-minded.

Some of the plotholes are debatable... others, well let's just say I'd really like to see you try. I'm not saying the endings are factually bad. I'm saying the endings are factually inconsistent. By all means, people can like the endings. But you can't debunk all of the plotholes. They go too deep.

You can't excuse poor writing, poor execution. Or in this situation, both. Now THAT is my opinion. 

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 31 mars 2012 - 01:21 .

[VoodooDrackus]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Zix13 wrote...
Also that Geneaux486 guy is either trolling or so selective in his opinions it's laughable.

You can call me Gene if you'd like.  Also I'm not either of those things, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion!  Good to meet you though.

Why is it these people think that if we liked the ending then we are either paid by Bioware, trolling or completely stupid?

You are atleast civil to them and I commend you for that, especially when some of them are nothing but rude to us.



LOL. Whenever I read your posts I always read them in Jokers voice.

Anyhow, good to see you out here giving your opinions on things. I have similar opinions.

[Geneaux486]

Some of the plotholes are debatable... others, well let's just say I'd really like to see you try.

I'd be more than happy to try. Bottom line is the reason I'm here is because I like discussing Mass Effect, so I'm more than happy to do that.

Why is it these people think that if we liked the ending then we are either paid by Bioware, trolling or completely stupid?

You are atleast civil to them and I commend you for that, especially when some of them are nothing but rude to us.



LOL. Whenever I read your posts I always read them in Jokers voice.

Anyhow, good to see you out here giving your opinions on things. I have similar opinions.

Thanks, I appreciate that.
Happy to say I have met a lot of people who outright hated the endings who have been civil in return, so it's certainly not the whole movement.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 31 mars 2012 - 01:31 .

[Theb82]

VoodooDrackus wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Zix13 wrote...
Also that Geneaux486 guy is either trolling or so selective in his opinions it's laughable.

You can call me Gene if you'd like.  Also I'm not either of those things, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion!  Good to meet you though.

Why is it these people think that if we liked the ending then we are either paid by Bioware, trolling or completely stupid?

You are atleast civil to them and I commend you for that, especially when some of them are nothing but rude to us.



LOL. Whenever I read your posts I always read them in Jokers voice.

Anyhow, good to see you out here giving your opinions on things. I have similar opinions.

Its because most (not all) dont even explain why they liked the ending, some of us are trying to understand other views.

[Ck213]

I love it up to the point where the Crucible is delivered and the Andersone and Shep talk.
After that I will shut the game off. Which is greast since I don't have to be obsessed with the EMS to get the best ending.

Modifié par Ck213, 31 mars 2012 - 01:35 .

[Arken]

Theb82 wrote...
As for you liking the ending...

Arken wrote...
Go ahead. You can like what ever you want to like. I like a lot of movie that critics gave poor reviews to. I recognize that the flaws they point out are true, but I still manage to enjoy the film.

An example is Hot Tub Time Machine.

It only got a 50%, but I really enjoyed the movie and thought it was very funny. It broke from a lot of typical story telling conventions, and had characters who did things that seem like stuff people would actually do if they were sent back in time.

Critics pointed out the flaws in the film, but I liked it regardless.

The Mass Effect 3 ending is no different. Someone's opinion of it is their opinion.

Except hot tub time machine is a 50% film and your comparing it to a 10% game.

Well the ending was 10% quality. Well I actually think it's 1% quality. It was very poorly done, poorly executed, poorly written, and just plain... well bad.

Still there are people who liked movies like How Freddy got Fingered despite it being considered one of the worst movies of all time.

I bet there are people who didn't like Inception! 


Is that even possible?

EDIT: The game actually had a lot of flaws aside from the ending. I'm going to make a list of everything I felt Mass Effect 3 did wrong, and not include the endings in it. 

The list will probably start with the fact that Kaidan is put into th hospital before I even get access to the Normandy.

Then I might mention how cheesy the Reapers on the galaxy map is. When I read that the Normandy will need to outrun Reapers if they stay in a system for too long, I assumed it would an actual gameplay mechanic. Instead I got this pathetic sequence where Reapers would  chase me on the actual galaxy map. So they weren't giant frightening Reapers. They were tiny spite versions that chase me around the galaxy map. How exciting.

Then I'd probably go on to say how the sequence after the Mars level felt very drawn out. People just kept talking, and talking, and talking... I like dialogue, but the plot got really still really fast once I go to the Citadel.

The upsides would probably how Al Jilani suddenly transformed into an awesome babe that can knock my Shepard right in the face. "Wait! Come back! I like you now!" XO

I think that the ending is just distracting people from the rest of the product.

Modifié par Arken, 31 mars 2012 - 01:41 .

[Jenonax]

Zix13 wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Breaking of the reader-writer contract - check
Insertion of Deus Ex Machina to resolve/explain main conflict - check
Rendering primary character powerless in the final act - check
No resolution to conflict between protagonist and antagonist - check (Catalyst is NOT the main baddie.  Harbinger is.  The Reapers as a whole are.  The Catalyst is a wholely unnecessary DEM)
Complete abandonment of themes/lore - check

This. All of these( minus the inevitable deus ex machina ) would result in a bad ending. The ME3 ending had multiple glaring fundamental problems with it. Objectively, it was a terrible ending that never should have been written by anyone with any sense of things literary. Whether you liked it is your business.

Also that Geneaux486 guy is either trolling or so selective in his opinions it's laughable.

I've debated whether or not the DEM was inevitable before.  Basically I think we were led to believe that if we all stood up together as a Galaxy we could win this.  But thats another topic.


Plus if Geneaux486 is a troll he's a bloody polite one.  He's absolutely entitled to defend the ending, that's his opinion.  Doesn't make him a troll.

[Dr. rotinaj]

Geneaux486 wrote...
But the choices matter all throughout Mass Effect 3.  Closure is obtained through being able to say goodbye to each and every squadmate and former squadmate before you make that final push.  You know what everyone plans to do, and you know whether or not they can do it based on how well the Crucible worked, which is based on your EMS, which is based on your choices.  If you're telling me we don't get enough closure, and our choices don't matter enough, that's a legit complaint, but it's also a matter of opinion.  Do you get what I'm saying now?  It's not objective, it is subjective 

No, everything is completely changed in a random way. Suddenly all the relays are destroyed and/or synthetics are all destroyed, or organics and synthetics merge together (WTF?). Saying goodbye to all of your squaddies before that stupid crap happened isn't closure. Closure is needed because a galaxy-shaking event happened with absolutely no attempt at explanation.

Also, our choices don't matter because they are just boiled down to numbers and small cameos. You don't actually see many of the allies you've acquired and how they affect the game. It's just "Oh we're doing great because we have an EMS of 7000" instead of "oh we're doing great because those Geth juggernauts and Krogan warriors are holding key positions."  

Well we knew there was a Catalyst, and AI/VI constructs appearing to provide exposition isn't anything new to Mass Effect.   

You're comparing the Catalyst to Vigil... Really? Anyway, the starchild is stupid and illogical because it's existence makes no sense. Why doesn't it open the Citadel relay instead of the keepers? Why didn't it open the Citadel arms for Sovereign? "All machines rebel against their creator"-says the creator of the reapers. Yo Dawg I herd you like syntherics... I'm sure you know the rest. Not to mention the stupidity of making it appear as the earth kid, but that's an argument for another thread.

Robot DNA is not what we get in the synthesis ending, we get a mutation of synthetic DNA.  The stargazer, honestly, I could take or leave.  It's after the fact, and it had no impact on me, but it wasn't a plothole.  Like I said, it is debatable whether or not they are "plotholes".  All I'm arguing now is that the opinions on the ending are just that, opinions, and there are equally valid ones for and against the endings.

A mutation of synthetic and organic DNA? That makes no sense. 

I see what your trying to say when you claim that all of this is an opinion, but to call the for and against opinions equally valid is just wrong.

Modifié par Dr. rotinaj, 31 mars 2012 - 01:58 .

[xeNNN]

ediskrad327 wrote...

*looks at joining date* sure whatever

this. 

id take him seriously if the joining date wasnt like the day before yesterday.

after all the Stuff thats gone on these forums.
just looks like a troll.
:/.

[METALPUNKS]

Agh... I give up. Oneday Bioware has the greatest story telling, then the next they are horrible writers. Oneday ME is the best game ever, the another day it's the worst. There is nothing I can do besides know that I loved ending. I wasn't trying to push the idea on anyone or start a huge debate. I simply was excited that the ending turned out way way better than I expected. I'm thrilled some of us loved it. What I'm not so thrilled about is the reaction I got for thinking it was perfect. It reminds me of those times while playing ME when I said to myself why can't you all just get along? An opinion is an opinion. Nobody can prove the ending was horrible or perfect. Bioware wrote it, it's done. How you walk away from it is on you.

Oh and NO I wasn't paid by Bioware to say I loved the ending. It's all me, crazy as that sounds. Sorry.

[Rafe34]

METALPUNKS wrote...
 An opinion is an opinion. Nobody can prove the ending was horrible or perfect. Bioware wrote it, it's done. How you walk away from it is on you.

An opinion that is not backed by facts is an invalid opinion. People that say they like the endings generally don't really understand the ME universe, most of the time because they've only played ME3.

Actually, it's not over yet. Sorry to burst your bubble.

And yeah, posting it on a forum IS asking for other's opinions and to start something. Don't pretend like it's not.

[Eyeshield21]

ediskrad327 wrote...

*looks at joining date* sure whatever

yup, mostly everyone on this thread gave the OP troll the finger.

[scrapmetals]

    Because in life you only get to pick three choices ever, and they're all basically the same, and they all invalidate everything you've done before in life

    That's why it's beautiful, right?

[Skirlasvoud]

I don't hate you. /hug

I just think it's sad your that easily impressed. /pity

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

NUM13ER wrote...

I don't hate you man. I envy you. If only I felt the same.

I personally pity him, no sane person can enjoy these endings as they are right now, Thus there can only be one conclusion.

[Fliprot]

Jenonax wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

If someone is saying that it is a fact that the ending is bad, and that other opinions are wrong, then yes, that is false.  Regardless of how many people say the ending is bad, it is still subjective, not objective.  It's not fact, plain and simple.

And you are YET AGAIN confusing opinion with objective fact.

It is a fact that the endings are bad. They make no sense. They run counter to the themes of Mass Effect. They introduce a new character in the final stretch with a nonsensical twist. They nullify all events in all 3 games up to that point.
They are objectively bad.

You have been given every chance to prove otherwise, and you have not.

It is your OPINION if you like it or not. You can, again, like it all you want.
It's still bad. Maybe for some arthouse storyline it would be good, but that is not ME.

Feel the overwhelming urge to weigh in here.

The Angry One's correct in this.  Whether or not you liked the ending is subjective.  No one can tell you how to feel about something.  We can't even tell ourselves how to feel.

But objectively from a narrative standpoint, the ending is a travesty.  It goes against the fundamentals of storytelling.  Basic things like theme, cohesion, character development all go out the window.  The fact that they strip the main antagonists of all their terror, power and allure and make them playthings at the eleventh hour automatically strips the narrative of its primary basic conflict between the protagonist and the antagonist.

Storytelling has rules.  It isn't a completely free for all medium.  As much as you might like to think you can do whatever you want, you can't.  End of story.  The ending manages to pull of as much rule breaking as is possible in a five minute period.  

Breaking of the reader-writer contract - check
Insertion of Deus Ex Machina to resolve/explain main conflict - check
Rendering primary character powerless in the final act - check
No resolution to conflict between protagonist and antagonist - check (Catalyst is NOT the main baddie.  Harbinger is.  The Reapers as a whole are.  The Catalyst is a wholely unnecessary DEM)
Complete abandonment of themes/lore - check

Like it all you want, I've no right to tell you otherwise, but the ending is a failure no matter what subjective feelings anyone has towards it.

This. Forever and ever.

Modifié par Fliprot, 31 mars 2012 - 02:23 .

[CombustiblePanda]

What was the point of making this thread?

To start a conflict on purpose?

[Dr. rotinaj]

METALPUNKS wrote...
 An opinion is an opinion.  

That doesn't make it immune to stupidity.

Nobody can prove the ending was horrible or perfect. 

Yes they can and they already have. 

Modifié par Dr. rotinaj, 31 mars 2012 - 02:25 .

[Skirlasvoud]

Double post

Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 31 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[Skirlasvoud]

Fliprot wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

If
someone is saying that it is a fact that the ending is bad, and that
other opinions are wrong, then yes, that is false.  Regardless of how
many people say the ending is bad, it is still subjective, not
objective.  It's not fact, plain and simple.

And you are YET AGAIN confusing opinion with objective fact.

It
is a fact that the endings are bad. They make no sense. They run
counter to the themes of Mass Effect. They introduce a new character in
the final stretch with a nonsensical twist. They nullify all events in
all 3 games up to that point.
They are objectively bad.

You have been given every chance to prove otherwise, and you have not.

It is your OPINION if you like it or not. You can, again, like it all you want.
It's still bad. Maybe for some arthouse storyline it would be good, but that is not ME.

Feel the overwhelming urge to weigh in here.

The
Angry One's correct in this.  Whether or not you liked the ending is
subjective.  No one can tell you how to feel about something.  We can't
even tell ourselves how to feel.

But objectively from a narrative
standpoint, the ending is a travesty.  It goes against the fundamentals
of storytelling.  Basic things like theme, cohesion, character
development all go out the window.  The fact that they strip the main
antagonists of all their terror, power and allure and make them
playthings at the eleventh hour automatically strips the narrative of
its primary basic conflict between the protagonist and the antagonist.

Storytelling
has rules.  It isn't a completely free for all medium.  As much as you
might like to think you can do whatever you want, you can't.  End of
story.  The ending manages to pull of as much rule breaking as is
possible in a five minute period.  

Breaking of the reader-writer contract - check
Insertion of Deus Ex Machina to resolve/explain main conflict - check
Rendering primary character powerless in the final act - check
No
resolution to conflict between protagonist and antagonist - check
(Catalyst is NOT the main baddie.  Harbinger is.  The Reapers as a whole
are.  The Catalyst is a wholely unnecessary DEM)
Complete abandonment of themes/lore - check

Like
it all you want, I've no right to tell you otherwise, but the ending is
a failure no matter what subjective feelings anyone has towards it.

This. Forever and ever.

Still subjective.


It being bad in this respect is a matter of what you weigh it against. 

If you compare it against the established convention of proper storytelling as we know it, the ending is sub par.
If you compare it against the scribblings of a five year old, the ending is an improvement.


All you need to do now, is choose what subjective perspective you want to cling to.

Fact remains however, that "bad" is relative no matter how you slice it.

Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 31 mars 2012 - 02:30 .

[jahaa]

I don't hate you, random internet person.
Now hug me.

[SilentPhenomed]

I liked the ending. Loved the presentation when the faunts song started playing too.

But I think it can improve. And a little extra diversity doesn't hurt, but if the endings stay the same...I won't mind :]

[Zix13]

Jenonax wrote...

Zix13 wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Breaking of the reader-writer contract - check
Insertion of Deus Ex Machina to resolve/explain main conflict - check
Rendering primary character powerless in the final act - check
No resolution to conflict between protagonist and antagonist - check (Catalyst is NOT the main baddie.  Harbinger is.  The Reapers as a whole are.  The Catalyst is a wholely unnecessary DEM)
Complete abandonment of themes/lore - check

This. All of these( minus the inevitable deus ex machina ) would result in a bad ending. The ME3 ending had multiple glaring fundamental problems with it. Objectively, it was a terrible ending that never should have been written by anyone with any sense of things literary. Whether you liked it is your business.

Also that Geneaux486 guy is either trolling or so selective in his opinions it's laughable.

I've debated whether or not the DEM was inevitable before.  Basically I think we were led to believe that if we all stood up together as a Galaxy we could win this.  But thats another topic.


Plus if Geneaux486 is a troll he's a bloody polite one.  He's absolutely entitled to defend the ending, that's his opinion.  Doesn't make him a troll.

Geneaux486 wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

brb, looking up the codex entry for teleporting squadmates with the healing power of Wolverine.

Teleporting squadmates?  The Conduit, the beam from London to the Citadel.  The Mass Relays.  What healing powers are you referring to?

 
Is the only troll comment I've seen from him. 

However this kind of comment:

Geneaux486 wrote...
Who says they're cyborgs?  It's an alteration on a molecular level, introduced by a foreign wave of energy.  In a universe where ships can instantly beam from one giant tuning fork to another.  You're arbitrarily deciding where to suspend your disbelief.

Is just idiotic.

" You accept the assumptions the universe was build on but not a concept added in the last 5 minutes with no explanation. 
You're arbitrarily deciding where to suspend your disbelief.  "  That is why I said his arguments are very selective. He states his view on something while completely ignoring most of the premise.