478 réponses à ce sujet

[Hobbyman]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

He is not a troll, but what your doing is considered such.

Indeed he/she is not a troll, maybe, since he/she also answered to other posts and vehemently defends his/hers position. But the lack of logical arguments and conclusions on his/her behalf just doesn't cut it in this case.

They way things have gone with this game, just coming to the forums and saying "I loved the ending because I loved it" without providing any logical counter-arguments to the various plot holes that have been posted, is a sure way to brand someone as an attention loving troll.

This is not a discussion about a hypothetical overpower that created the Universe, which can neither be proved or disproved with a series of logical arguments. The situation is pretty much straightforward. So, again, I would ask the OP to read the google doc about the plot holes and discrepancies (if he/she hasn't done already) and provide me with a series of counter-arguments to prove that he/she saw or understood something that I didn't.

Until then, the "I love the ending because it makes sense" is just like the "There is a God because there Is" argument. It's superficial, empty and devoid of any logical arguments which just makes people like me go "Yeah ok, whatever then".

If the OP wants credibility, then he/she should provide more elaborate answers, based on facts and logic. If he/she didn't care about any of this, then posting here means that he/she just seeks attention, like a multitude of others.

Modifié par TekMage, 31 mars 2012 - 12:10 .

[digby69]

I hate you, I hate you.

Is that ok op?

[LaraUE]

I love how people try to incite flaming.
Dude, good for you, happy for ya, really. If you found it satisfying then Bioware hit the mark with you.
Me, not so much.

[Toby Shepard]

It's good that you liked your ending. But you wouldn't mind if I could get my preferred ending.. right?

[Dragoonlordz]

TekMage wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

He is not a troll, but what your doing is considered such.

Indeed he/she is not a troll, maybe, since he/she also answered to other posts and vehemently defends his/hers position. But the lack of logical arguments and conclusions on his/her behalf just doesn't cut it in this case.

They way things have gone with this game, just coming to the forums and saying "I loved the ending because I loved it" without providing any logical counter-arguments to the various plot holes that have been posted, is a sure way to brand someone as an attention loving troll.

This is not a discussion about a hypothetical overpower that created the Universe, which can neither be proved or disproved with a series of logical arguments. The situation is pretty much straightforward. So, again, I would ask the OP to read the google doc about the plot holes and discrepancies (if he/she hasn't done already) and provide me with a series of counter-arguments to prove that he/she saw or understood something that I didn't.

Until then, the "I love the ending because it makes sense" is just like the "There is a God because there Is" argument. It's superficial, empty and devoid of any logical arguments which just makes people like me go "Yeah ok, whatever then".

If the OP wants credibility, then he/she should provide more elaborate answers, based on facts and logic. If he/she didn't care about any of this, then posting here means that he/she just seeks attention, like a multitude of others.

Why should he? Posting here is about attention, every single thread ever created is for that single purpose, how is that for a fact since you asked for facts. He does not have to resolve your problems you have with the ending in order to express that he enjoyed it. Noone cares about what you consider logical or seeks your approval in order to make any comments or stating of their enjoyment. If you take issue with plot holes then 'you' have issues with them. I can eat a cake and like the way it tastes without knowing every single ingredient inside prior to saying I liked it. I can drive a car and say I enjoyed driving it, from the way made me feel to the way it handled but I do not need to know how to strip the engine down to smallests parts in order to say so or like the car. Stop expecting everyone who likes what you do not to resolve your issues before you accept that they like it and to them why they like it is as valid as why you don't.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 31 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[Catriana]

TekMage wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

He is not a troll, but what your doing is considered such.

Indeed he/she is not a troll, maybe, since he/she also answered to other posts and vehemently defends his/hers position. But the lack of logical arguments and conclusions on his/her behalf just doesn't cut it in this case.

They way things have gone with this game, just coming to the forums and saying "I loved the ending because I loved it" without providing any logical counter-arguments to the various plot holes that have been posted, is a sure way to brand someone as an attention loving troll.

This is not a discussion about a hypothetical overpower that created the Universe, which can neither be proved or disproved with a series of logical arguments. The situation is pretty much straightforward. So, again, I would ask the OP to read the google doc about the plot holes and discrepancies (if he/she hasn't done already) and provide me with a series of counter-arguments to prove that he/she saw or understood something that I didn't.

Until then, the "I love the ending because it makes sense" is just like the "There is a God because there Is" argument. It's superficial, empty and devoid of any logical arguments which just makes people like me go "Yeah ok, whatever then".

If the OP wants credibility, then he/she should provide more elaborate answers, based on facts and logic. If he/she didn't care about any of this, then posting here means that he/she just seeks attention, like a multitude of others.

While I would argue that OP posted this thread as a way to get attention (the title alone should have been more than enough proof of that), trying to say "You must have a clear, concise, and logical argument for why you like something" is ridiculous.

No, I don't. I don't have to like something beyond merely saying "Because I do". It is my perogative whether or not I like something and why, and I, nor anyone else, needs to justify that to anyone. That's the beauty of an opinion belonging to someone and why opinions are not facts. Furthermore, stating an opinion is not an invitation for debate. You are trying to make it one, and therein lies the problem.

If I say "I like the color blue" and you ask me "Why?" and I say "Because I do", that is not an invitation for you to jump into a debate with me and demand I answer the question to your liking. I am not obligated to do anything for you. If you don't like that, find someone else to shove your demands at.

If people wish to discuss why they loved the ending, by all means do so. But no one is obligated to give you jack squat, nor is it your right to demand it of them.

And before people start jumping me: I don't actually care for ME3's endings, but I respect people's right to like them, and I don't begrudge them that. Whatever floats your boat, as far as I'm concerned.

Modifié par Catriana, 31 mars 2012 - 12:23 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Toby Shepard wrote...

It's good that you liked your ending. But you wouldn't mind if I could get my preferred ending.. right?

Depends, if you do not replace what we liked meaning cutting content or replacing what we saw then for most part no problem however of replaces or cuts it out then yes. There is also the issue of not being just case of "just don't download it" because I am 99% sure the DLC will contain far more than just ending content.

[Nightwriter]

I don't hate you. I just question your sanity. Is that so bad? Some of my favorite people are insane. Just go with it, man.

[Dragoonlordz]

Catriana wrote...

TekMage wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

He is not a troll, but what your doing is considered such.

Indeed he/she is not a troll, maybe, since he/she also answered to other posts and vehemently defends his/hers position. But the lack of logical arguments and conclusions on his/her behalf just doesn't cut it in this case.

They way things have gone with this game, just coming to the forums and saying "I loved the ending because I loved it" without providing any logical counter-arguments to the various plot holes that have been posted, is a sure way to brand someone as an attention loving troll.

This is not a discussion about a hypothetical overpower that created the Universe, which can neither be proved or disproved with a series of logical arguments. The situation is pretty much straightforward. So, again, I would ask the OP to read the google doc about the plot holes and discrepancies (if he/she hasn't done already) and provide me with a series of counter-arguments to prove that he/she saw or understood something that I didn't.

Until then, the "I love the ending because it makes sense" is just like the "There is a God because there Is" argument. It's superficial, empty and devoid of any logical arguments which just makes people like me go "Yeah ok, whatever then".

If the OP wants credibility, then he/she should provide more elaborate answers, based on facts and logic. If he/she didn't care about any of this, then posting here means that he/she just seeks attention, like a multitude of others.

While I would argue that OP posted this thread as a way to get attention (the title alone should have been more than enough proof of that), trying to say "You must have a clear, concise, and logical argument for why you like something" is ridiculous.

No, I don't. I don't have to like something beyond merely saying "Because I do". It is my perogative whether or not I like something and why, and I, nor anyone else, needs to justify that to anyone. That's the beauty of an opinion belonging to someone and why opinions are not facts. Furthermore, stating an opinion is not an invitation for debate. You are trying to make it one, and therein lies the problem.

If I say "I like the color blue" and you ask me "Why?" and I say "Because I do", that is not an invitation for you to jump into a debate with me and demand I answer the question to your liking. I am not obligated to do anything for you. If you don't like that, find someone else to shove your demands at.

If people wish to discuss why they loved the ending, by all means do so. But no one is obligated to give you jack squat, nor is it your right to demand it of them.

And before people start jumping me: I don't actually care for ME3's endings, but I respect people's right to like them, and I don't begrudge them that. Whatever floats your boat, as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you, it is nice to see someone else say this too for a change. I just hope that people will get it into their heads some simple common sense in how they treat those who like the endings.

[refuse81]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Toby Shepard wrote...

It's good that you liked your ending. But you wouldn't mind if I could get my preferred ending.. right?

Depends, if you do not replace what we liked meaning cutting content or replacing what we saw then for most part no problem however of replaces or cuts it out then yes. There is also the issue of not being just case of "just don't download it" because I am 99% sure the DLC will contain far more than just ending content.

Meh, if they replace it you can just play Deus Ex and get your fix. Quit the game after Anderson dies, load up your Deus Ex save post last boss and get the same thing but with a better cinematic.

Modifié par refuse81, 31 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[FOX216BC]

And another IGN-crusader lolololololololololololololol

[Dragoonlordz]

refuse81 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Toby Shepard wrote...

It's good that you liked your ending. But you wouldn't mind if I could get my preferred ending.. right?

Depends, if you do not replace what we liked meaning cutting content or replacing what we saw then for most part no problem however of replaces or cuts it out then yes. There is also the issue of not being just case of "just don't download it" because I am 99% sure the DLC will contain far more than just ending content.

Meh, if they replace it you can just play Deus Ex and get your fix.

Nope. As amusing as your trying to be they are not actually the same from neither in context or story, just in method.

[Toby Shepard]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Toby Shepard wrote...

It's good that you liked your ending. But you wouldn't mind if I could get my preferred ending.. right?

Depends, if you do not replace what we liked meaning cutting content or replacing what we saw then for most part no problem however of replaces or cuts it out then yes. There is also the issue of not being just case of "just don't download it" because I am 99% sure the DLC will contain far more than just ending content.

I don't want your ending to be rewritten, if you think it is a great way to end the series, awesome.
The other endings could be implemented as choices just as the red/blue/green ones.
The cutscenes would have to be a little bit longer than yours obviously but that shouldn't concern you if you liked the slightly confusing endings. Even a Dark Horse comic that starts playing after my DLC choice would do it for me at this point.

[Dragoonlordz]

FOX216BC wrote...

And another IGN-crusader lolololololololololololololol

What?

[Dragoonlordz]

Toby Shepard wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Toby Shepard wrote...

It's good that you liked your ending. But you wouldn't mind if I could get my preferred ending.. right?

Depends, if you do not replace what we liked meaning cutting content or replacing what we saw then for most part no problem however of replaces or cuts it out then yes. There is also the issue of not being just case of "just don't download it" because I am 99% sure the DLC will contain far more than just ending content.

I don't want your ending to be rewritten, if you think it is a great way to end the series, awesome.
The other endings could be implemented as choices just as the red/blue/green ones.
The cutscenes would have to be a little bit longer than yours obviously but that shouldn't concern you if you liked the slightly confusing endings. Even a Dark Horse comic that starts playing after my DLC choice would do it for me at this point.

At this stage we have no idea what they are going to do, I cannot and will not say I am happy with what contains until know what it actually does. Should find out soon enough in April.

[Hobbyman]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Why should he? Posting here is about attention, every single thread ever created is for that single purpose, how is that for a fact since you asked for facts. He does not have to resolve your problems you have with the ending in order to express that he enjoyed it.

Indeed he/she is in no way obligated to provide me with a logical argument about any of this. But by doing so, he/she just proves that he/she is just a gullible, mindless automaton who just discards everything in story, just because of a single occurence that agrees with his/hers religious views.

Noone cares about what you consider logical or seeks your approval. If you take issue with plot holes then 'you' have issues with them.

Indeed noone should care about how I feel apart from EA and BioWare who sold me the copy of their product. But the issues that I have with the plot holes are carefully examined and explained by various people in the forums therefore they are credible and trustworthy as to their truthfullness, since they are not based on blatant assumptions or beliefs. People have to understand at some point that when they wish to engage in a discussion (as invented by the Ancient Greeks) they must be ready and willing to defend their positions with logical arguments and conclusions.

I can eat a cake and like the way it tastes without knowing every single ingrediant inside prior to saying I liked it.

Indeed. But even in a matter of taste there are always underlying reasons on why someone likes something that someone else doesn't. Maybe it is the combination of chocolate and strawberry. Maybe it is the dressing. Maybe something else. But there is always a reason. In the case of the cake, no discussion is needed. The matter is superficial and mundane. But in an outrage such as the one about the ending, I would like something more elaborate, if not for another reason than to just accept the OP's position.

I can drive a car and say I enjoyed driving it, from the way made me feel to the way it handled but I do not need to know how to strip the engine down to smallests parts in order to say so or like the car.

Same thing as the cake.

Stop expecting everyone who likes what you do not to resolve your issues before you accept that they like it and to them why they like it is as valid as why you don't. 

I don't expect from anyone who likes the ending to resolve my "issues" because blatantly, they can't. Noone who said that they loved the ending has yet to disprove the claims of the plot holes or has provided anything more tangible thana simple "I like it because it is fun". Our main difference in all this is that I can provide you with at least 20 reasons on why the ending is bad story-wise, theme-wise and Mass Effect-wise. What can you provide apart from the blind faith of a fanatic?

[refuse81]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

refuse81 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Toby Shepard wrote...

It's good that you liked your ending. But you wouldn't mind if I could get my preferred ending.. right?

Depends, if you do not replace what we liked meaning cutting content or replacing what we saw then for most part no problem however of replaces or cuts it out then yes. There is also the issue of not being just case of "just don't download it" because I am 99% sure the DLC will contain far more than just ending content.

Meh, if they replace it you can just play Deus Ex and get your fix.

Nope. As amusing as your trying to be they are not actually the same from neither in context or story, just in method.

The difference is merely that in Deus Ex, the endings didn't feel out of place because they fit the theme of the game and it was a decision based on stuff you were facing all through the game. In ME3 they turn philosophical as a twist in the final minutes of the game.

[refuse81]

TekMage wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Why should he? Posting here is about attention, every single thread ever created is for that single purpose, how is that for a fact since you asked for facts. He does not have to resolve your problems you have with the ending in order to express that he enjoyed it.

Indeed he/she is in no way obligated to provide me with a logical argument about any of this. But by doing so, he/she just proves that he/she is just a gullible, mindless automaton who just discards everything in story, just because of a single occurence that agrees with his/hers religious views.

Noone cares about what you consider logical or seeks your approval. If you take issue with plot holes then 'you' have issues with them.

Indeed noone should care about how I feel apart from EA and BioWare who sold me the copy of their product. But the issues that I have with the plot holes are carefully examined and explained by various people in the forums therefore they are credible and trustworthy as to their truthfullness, since they are not based on blatant assumptions or beliefs. People have to understand at some point that when they wish to engage in a discussion (as invented by the Ancient Greeks) they must be ready and willing to defend their positions with logical arguments and conclusions.

I can eat a cake and like the way it tastes without knowing every single ingrediant inside prior to saying I liked it.

Indeed. But even in a matter of taste there are always underlying reasons on why someone likes something that someone else doesn't. Maybe it is the combination of chocolate and strawberry. Maybe it is the dressing. Maybe something else. But there is always a reason. In the case of the cake, no discussion is needed. The matter is superficial and mundane. But in an outrage such as the one about the ending, I would like something more elaborate, if not for another reason than to just accept the OP's position.

I can drive a car and say I enjoyed driving it, from the way made me feel to the way it handled but I do not need to know how to strip the engine down to smallests parts in order to say so or like the car.

Same thing as the cake.

Stop expecting everyone who likes what you do not to resolve your issues before you accept that they like it and to them why they like it is as valid as why you don't. 

I don't expect from anyone who likes the ending to resolve my "issues" because blatantly, they can't. Noone who said that they loved the ending has yet to disprove the claims of the plot holes or has provided anything more tangible thana simple "I like it because it is fun". Our main difference in all this is that I can provide you with at least 20 reasons on why the ending is bad story-wise, theme-wise and Mass Effect-wise. What can you provide apart from the blind faith of a fanatic?

Agreed. Like vs Dislike in regards to the ending judging by the posts on this board feels like religion vs. science.

[Dragoonlordz]

TekMage wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Why should he? Posting here is about attention, every single thread ever created is for that single purpose, how is that for a fact since you asked for facts. He does not have to resolve your problems you have with the ending in order to express that he enjoyed it.

Indeed he/she is in no way obligated to provide me with a logical argument about any of this. But by doing so, he/she just proves that he/she is just a gullible, mindless automaton who just discards everything in story, just because of a single occurence that agrees with his/hers religious views.

-snip-

From the moment you said that I lost all interest in further discussion with you.

[Hobbyman]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

TekMage wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Why should he? Posting here is about attention, every single thread ever created is for that single purpose, how is that for a fact since you asked for facts. He does not have to resolve your problems you have with the ending in order to express that he enjoyed it.

Indeed he/she is in no way obligated to provide me with a logical argument about any of this. But by doing so, he/she just proves that he/she is just a gullible, mindless automaton who just discards everything in story, just because of a single occurence that agrees with his/hers religious views.

-snip-

From the moment you said that I lost all interest in further discussion with you.

Hmmmmm, or could it be that you have no arguments to support your position? Discuss.

EDIT: If you want to have any credibility in a discussion you should be ready to read and discuss your arguer's position, whether it agrees with you or not. If you don't, you just prove that I am right.

Modifié par TekMage, 31 mars 2012 - 12:43 .

[Deventh]

Acidrain92 wrote...

I dont understand why people who like the endings are being called trolls.

if anything its the other way around O.o

Maybe because the endings suck and doesn't make any damn sense? 

[Russalka]

For all this talk of objectivity, there still is a lot of ad hominem going around.

[Dragoonlordz]

TekMage wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

TekMage wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Why should he? Posting here is about attention, every single thread ever created is for that single purpose, how is that for a fact since you asked for facts. He does not have to resolve your problems you have with the ending in order to express that he enjoyed it.

Indeed he/she is in no way obligated to provide me with a logical argument about any of this. But by doing so, he/she just proves that he/she is just a gullible, mindless automaton who just discards everything in story, just because of a single occurence that agrees with his/hers religious views.

-snip-

From the moment you said that I lost all interest in further discussion with you.

Hmmmmm, or could it be that you have no arguments to support your position? Discuss.

EDIT: If you want to have any credibility in a discussion you should be ready to read and discuss your arguer's position, whether it agrees with you or not. If you don't, you just prove that I am right.

I have discussed it for thirteen to fourteen  pages, read my signature thread. As for discussion with you, the moment you resorted to insult all your credability was lost. If shows a frame of mind that is closed and aggressive to anything does not agree with.

[Hobbyman]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I have discussed it for thirteen to fourteen  pages, read my signature thread. As for discussion with you, the moment you resorted to insult all your credability was lost. If shows a frame of mind that is closed and aggressive to anything does not agree with.

It wasn't an insult. Just an observation.

I will make sure to read your posts.

My mind is not closed, it just needs a specific key to be stimulated and respond called "Constructive argument that leads to logical conclusions based on facts" that people don't have. Also, I don't think that I was aggressive anywhere in my posts. All I wanted was a more elaborate discussion on the matter. I might pursued that aggressively, but I was not aggressive per se.

[Fuzzfro]

I see you only have the 3rd game registered.