478 réponses à ce sujet

[refuse81]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
I have discussed it for thirteen to fourteen  pages, read my signature thread. As for discussion with you, the moment you resorted to insult all your credability was lost. If shows a frame of mind that is closed and aggressive to anything does not agree with.

Can you blame him? The only person I've seen on this board who post about how they 'liked' or 'loved' the ending willing to actually discuss it is you. And still your OP in the signature thread contains plot holes. (You say that you don't like your Shepard to play god and yet feel it's appropriate to decide that every living entity in the entire galaxy should now become a synthetic organic symbiosis) I agree to some degree that the entire game can be seen as an ending, but they still leave us with lots of loose threads at the end. 

[Computron2000]

Reading the first post made me a bit thirsty

[Gerudan]

Well, there are a lot of people who like twilight too, that doesn't mean it is a good story.

[Motherlander]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The world does not work that way. People come here to discuss what they love not come here only to rant about what they hate.

I am going to do something unusual and admit that you are correct in this case and that I was wrong to say what I did. Yes, people do come here to express their admiration for the game and have a right to express their belief the ending is good. Fair point.

I also agree with your point to some extent that people don't need to justify why they like an ending. These things are subjective.

For example, I can understand why some would like the sythesis ending. If you are willing to make certain assumptions about what happens and make up your own story, then the systhesis ending can appear quite a beautiful and perfect conclusion. I personally don't see it that way. But I can understand why others might.

However, it would be nice to hear why those who like the endings can explain or do not find at least the plot holes important. Even if it is just a personal opinion that they are happy to assume something outside the game or perhaps it doesn't matter to them. These answers are valid on a purely subjective level.

I know from my own love of certain movies that I am willing to ignore or explain away plot holes in movies I love.

However, it would be nice to know if any of those who like the ending have any information from within the game explaining why certain things happened or not just in case we missed anything. They don't have to add anything of course, But it would add to the quality of the discussion rather than discussing whether people are trolls or not.

In the end, some people like the ending, no one else will change that.

I and others don't like the ending. I just hope that bioware shows some consideration for this part of the otherwise enthusiastic and loyal fanbase and provides us with some alternative we can accept.

The we don't need to have these threads about fans hating each other.

Modifié par Motherlander, 31 mars 2012 - 01:00 .

[FatalX7.0]

I can see people liking the ending.

But beautiful? Extraordinary? Making you think about life?

Right.

I saw a dog poop on the sidewalk the other day. It completely changed my outlook on life. I realized that the dog represented society, and that I was the sidewalk!

I'm not letting society poop on me anymore.

[Russalka]

Gerudan wrote...

Well, there are a lot of people who like twilight too, that doesn't mean it is a good story.

And yet there are plenty of people, who instead of criticising the endings and the arguments for liking it, take on the likers themselves.

Modifié par Russalka, 31 mars 2012 - 01:03 .

[Catriana]

TekMage wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I have discussed it for thirteen to fourteen  pages, read my signature thread. As for discussion with you, the moment you resorted to insult all your credability was lost. If shows a frame of mind that is closed and aggressive to anything does not agree with.

It wasn't an insult. Just an observation.

I will make sure to read your posts.

My mind is not closed, it just needs a specific key to be stimulated and respond called "Constructive argument that leads to logical conclusions based on facts" that people don't have. Also, I don't think that I was aggressive anywhere in my posts. All I wanted was a more elaborate discussion on the matter. I might pursued that aggressively, but I was not aggressive per se.

No, you've been pretty aggressive in your arguments. Calling someone a gullible, mindless automaton is not only an illegitimate argument, it's degrading the individual you believe to be your opponent in an effort to either get them to react or to make them believe in your false dichotomies.

The fact of the matter is, you came to this thread and you attempted to challenge the OP's opinions and expressed a demand to elaborate on their opinions based on what you believe the requirements for doing so would be. But the bottom line is: No one has to do what you want, and them not doing what you want doesn't make you right. Trying to present a false dichotomy "Either you argue based on these set perameters or you admit I'm right" is not a legitmiate method of argument, it's an aggressive method to force someone to do what you want, when no where in OP's starting post did they ever try to present their views as facts. OP has already expressed why they enjoyed the game, you do not wish to accept their view.

That's your problem, not OP's, and it doesn't make your viewpoint right and theirs wrong.

[Gerudan]

Russalka wrote...

And yet there are plenty of people, who instead of criticising the endings and the arguments for liking it, take on the likers themselves.

Yep, a lot of people are like that. If someone criticizes something, they like (or the other way around), they think it is a personal insult against them or something. That's why flame wars exist.

[Dragoonlordz]

Deventh wrote...

Acidrain92 wrote...

I dont understand why people who like the endings are being called trolls.

if anything its the other way around O.o

Maybe because the endings suck and doesn't make any damn sense? 

Your mistaking making sense vs seeing and being told. Care to explain why Terminator Reaper makes sense? How does the way relays work make 'sense', care to explain the mechanics and physics that makes it possible? Since everything has to make sense to you, care to explain the normandy drive core relative to real life physics that can even make it possible, omni tool blades, why Asari are blue, how cerberus brought you back to life yet managed to somehow restore your memory even though you was a burnt corpse, how every single crew mate magically knows of some secret way to improve your ship which has had some of the best scientific minds of both alliance and cerberus develop for years?

[Russalka]

Gerudan wrote...
Yep, a lot of people are like that. If someone criticizes something, they like (or the other way around), they think it is a personal insult against them or something. That's why flame wars exist.

Things would be so much easier, if people of either side were more relaxed about this difference of opinion.

But it would also be boring, I suppose.

[Deventh]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Deventh wrote...

Acidrain92 wrote...

I dont understand why people who like the endings are being called trolls.

if anything its the other way around O.o

Maybe because the endings suck and doesn't make any damn sense? 

Your mistaking making sense vs seeing and being told. Care to explain why Terminator Reaper makes sense? How does the way relays work make 'sense', care to explain the mechanics and physics that makes it possible? Since everything has to make sense to you, care to explain the normandy drive core relative to real life physics that can even make it possible, omni tool blades, why Asari are blue, how cerberus brought you back to life yet managed to somehow restore your memory even though you was a burnt corpse, how every single crew mate magically knows of some secret way to improve your ship which has had some of the best scientific minds of both alliance and cerberus develop for years?

All the things you just listed are irrelevant  while the ending isn't and they can't give you a black hole which sucks everything that makes sense in it. While i could care less why the Asari are blue or how they restored my memory etc. i would love to know what happens to my personal story in the end.

Modifié par Deventh, 31 mars 2012 - 01:16 .

[Lietuvis]

You must be new here, therefore i hate you ???

[AllThatJazz]

 When I first finished the game, I liked the ending. I firmly believed that Shep actually died with Anderson in a really beautiful scene (an impression reaffirmed when I saw Shep's lifeless body 'ascending' into the light on that platform). I therefore did not think that any of the stuff with the Starchild was real - I thought it was Shep trying to make everything okay in her mind before she died, in a simple way that could be expressed by a brain that was shutting down. Therefore, none of the 'choices' were real choices, I could simply choose whichever one would allow Shep to go off into the good night feeling as though she'd done her best. I still like that the ending is open to that kind of interpretation. There is a certain amount of ambiguity there (without it, things like the Indoctrination Theory wouldn't be possible) that I definitely don't hate.

I became less happy about the way my story ended when I realised that the 'destroy' ending with high EMS results in Shep apparently still being alive. It seemed to make the ending more literal (and I really don't like that approach to the Starchild ;p) - although at least - since I can't get that level of EMS in SP - I can ignore it.

It also falls apart a bit when I start thinking about that slomo bit after getting hit by Harbinger's beam. Where is my armour? Where are all my weapons? Where are my powers? Why am I in slow-motion? (That's only happened to a controllable Shepard during the dreams, apart from that really short bit with the Rannoch Reaper). So the Indoc Theory/Hallucination ideas start seeming a bit more appealing at this point - but that leaves us with a game that effectively has no ending at all, yet. Which I kind of like from the 'you've been Mind-F****d!' point of view, but not from the point of view of potentially having to pay for the real ending or never getting one at all :/

The one thing that has started to worry me about Bioware just 'clarifying' the existing ending is precisely that - that it will reinforce the Starchild ending as a literal ending (I really don't think they will change it outright) - and at that point, I will actually dislike the ending more than I do now, because there will be no room for me to interpret the ending my way.

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 31 mars 2012 - 02:27 .

[Dragoonlordz]

refuse81 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
I have discussed it for thirteen to fourteen  pages, read my signature thread. As for discussion with you, the moment you resorted to insult all your credability was lost. If shows a frame of mind that is closed and aggressive to anything does not agree with.

Can you blame him? The only person I've seen on this board who post about how they 'liked' or 'loved' the ending willing to actually discuss it is you. And still your OP in the signature thread contains plot holes. (You say that you don't like your Shepard to play god and yet feel it's appropriate to decide that every living entity in the entire galaxy should now become a synthetic organic symbiosis) I agree to some degree that the entire game can be seen as an ending, but they still leave us with lots of loose threads at the end. 

My Shepard resented the position others put him in. He was so very tired of being used and tired of seeing the people he cares about dying. By the time he was at the end bleeding to death and barely able to stand he knew time was not on his side in order to have a large scale chat with the AI core catalyst. Since I role played through the eyes of the character not a god who knew all outcomes like mentioned to him he had to make a choice or watch the reapers probably kill everyone of which he is responsible for leading them all there to potentially their deaths. He really struggled to choose an outcome from his perspective but he understood that is the way the crucible was designed.

[Dragoonlordz]

Deventh wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Deventh wrote...

Acidrain92 wrote...

I dont understand why people who like the endings are being called trolls.

if anything its the other way around O.o

Maybe because the endings suck and doesn't make any damn sense? 

Your mistaking making sense vs seeing and being told. Care to explain why Terminator Reaper makes sense? How does the way relays work make 'sense', care to explain the mechanics and physics that makes it possible? Since everything has to make sense to you, care to explain the normandy drive core relative to real life physics that can even make it possible, omni tool blades, why Asari are blue, how cerberus brought you back to life yet managed to somehow restore your memory even though you was a burnt corpse, how every single crew mate magically knows of some secret way to improve your ship which has had some of the best scientific minds of both alliance and cerberus develop for years?

All the things you just listed are irrelevant  while the ending isn't and they can't give you a black hole which sucks everything that makes sense in it. While i could care less why the Asari are blue or how they restored my memory etc. i would love to know what happens to my personal story in the end.

No they are not irrelevant, they are as relevant. Things that do not make sense from big to small yet I did not moan about them when played previous titles so why should it be shocking I do not complain about current ones.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 31 mars 2012 - 01:31 .

[JosieFrances]

Wow really?

[Eshaye]

I liked the ending(s) too. But it's not loved and it's not hated either. I just think they rushed through it. What bugs me is the explanation that the Reapers are the solution to synthetics killing off organics when we've just spent the whole game realising that the Geth only fought off the Quarians because the Quarians tried to kill them first, twice. And EDI becomes very human by the end.

So this possibility isn't much of an explanation. That's the only thing I find unsatisfying. Other then that the actual outcomes are okay.

I'm also hoping for more to explain or the REAL reason the catalyst exists.

[kkndgr]

Congrats ,you are truly admirible since you understand the most illogical ,nonsenial ending that even BIOWARE. Can explain .... GJ,becaise if they could at least would have come put to say something.

Modifié par kkndgr, 31 mars 2012 - 01:35 .

[Adamantium93]

I disagree with your conclusions about the ending, but if you liked them, than all power to ya.

[Dragoonlordz]

kkndgr wrote...

Congrats ,you are truly admirible since you understand the most illogical ,nonsenial ending that even BIOWARE. Can explain .... becaise if they could at least would have come put to say something.

If you think it's bad then you are implying you could do better. I am still waiting for those who dislike it and complain about the writing to write an ending themselves containing 16 outcomes and all choices you would like to have plus all outcomes fully explained based on all those possible choices across all possible decisions you and everyone else made in the game(s). You can't even go running to the indoc theory because all it does is reset it to zero meaning making what has happened not happen, it does not give you an actual ending especially not one with all 16 endings and taking into account all possible player differences.

Like I have said before... Where they see a literary failure, I see an enjoyable game and emotional success.Where they bought it for conclusion and end of the trilogy, I bought it game to merely continue the story of the previous two. Where they bought it for these so called 16 endings, I bought it knowing would have an ending of which it did just some people do not like that ending. Whether someone thinks I am being critical enough does not matter to me, I paid around £28 (PC version) for a game that lasted 45 hours and of which I gained enjoyment from during that time.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 31 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[Arppis]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Arppis wrote...

"Hate me, but do it honestly."

Ewww... Legacy of Kain Soul Reaver picture.. Legacy of Kain Blood Omen was a much better title (imho).

But the quote isn't from that game.

True I can't argue with that, I do not recall him saying it in the game.

From the second Soul Reaver game.

[Motherlander]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

No they are not irrelevant, they are as relevant. Things that do not make sense from big to small yet I did not moan about them when played previous titles so why should it be shocking I do not complain about current ones.

To a very limited degree you make a fair point. And who knows. In another thread, you may be on the opposite side of the fence with you complaining about things that are illogical to you while some ending-haters will defend them.

The three major plot holes in ME3 are how the 1) Citadel got to Earth and 2) how they managed to keep the God-maching hdden from the reapers with so many indoctrinated spies and 3) Why the reapers didn't attack the Citadel sooner.

But the poor ending overshadows all that for me.

There is a difference comparing the Ending of ME3 with other "questions" in the series.

That is that the ending of ME3 is unique. It is not just a passing plot point, it is something that is definitive and makes a lasting impression.

So for many of us, plot holes in the ending will make a much more significant impact than they perhaps would otherwise in the middle of the story.

Ideally, we want explanations of the story and consistency with the rest of the series. And for many of us this is all missing.

You and others may disagree. In that case it is just a matter or priorities and taste. Yours are different from those who hate the endings. So be it.

You keep your ending and hopefully we will get an alternative. Then we will all be one big happy community again. That is the only synthesis I want to see in ME. 

Modifié par Motherlander, 31 mars 2012 - 01:50 .

[METALPUNKS]

thefallen2far wrote...

METALPUNKS wrote...


See but some people really do hate me for it. Why? I don't know. I got it now don't worry. I won't bother anyone anymore with this. We few who thought the ending was great know we are not welcome. 

I think the question you should be asking yourself is: Why do you hate us who hate the ending? 

The only hate you can control is your own.

Huh? It doesn't make sense. I have never said I hated you ever!  In fact I keep saying you deserve an ending hair as much as I got one. How is that hate? Really how? I've been nothing but nice and all I got was slammed each and every time. 

[Luzarius]

METALPUNKS wrote...

 I thought everything came together perfectly. It was too beautiful to even put into words. It made me think about life and and how extrodinary it is. Someone who sits down and plays all the Mass Effects would at the least have a different outlook on our existence. I think that is the whole point to the game, if bioware intended for you to have a spiritual experience then they did their job, they did more. I know it's only a video game but it's really more than that for me, it's a perfectly beautiful take on life. I take my hat off to Bioware, I wouldn't change a thing. 

 Also there may be a chance for more, right. First you see Shepard(I'm assuming) take a gasp for air, it may have been his last but we really don't know. Then my favorite cut scene of the game, the boy and the man on that planet. The boy asks for one more story of THE Shepard and the man says ok one more. This tells me shepard lives, at that point you'd think the man would have told Shepards whole story because he ended with what we saw last. I don't get how the story can continue since there would be no way to get around but maybe it does. If it doesn't then that's ok to. I'm happy and I really am more than impressed with what Bioware has done. I really was expecting something horrible after all the threads started popping up all over the place but it wasn't horrible at all for me, the furthest from it. Thank you Bioware for making the best and my favorite video game series of all time. I'm only sad or upset because it's ended, or is it?

I love Bioware games but even I noticed three problems with the ME3 ending.

1. normandy? what happened?
2. how did shep get back on the surface? seriously bioware wtf man?
3. no epilogue before the old man, child scene?

Other than that I agree with you completely.  The ending was amazing.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

[ahandsomeshark]

I keep thinking this read Hate ME but love the ending? And it confuses me.