478 réponses à ce sujet

[Geneaux486]

Machazareel wrote...

brb, looking up the codex entry for teleporting squadmates with the healing power of Wolverine.

Teleporting squadmates?  The Conduit, the beam from London to the Citadel.  The Mass Relays.  What healing powers are you referring to?

Modifié par Geneaux486, 31 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[Dr. rotinaj]

Geneaux486 wrote...
Funny thing is I don't have to pick one.  The so-called "plotholes" are quite debatable, and the ending just as defendable.  This is what I'm talking about.  Yes, it is all subjective, yes, it is a matter of opinion.  The endings are not factually bad, no matter how badly you want them to be.  It's all opinion.   And why is that a bad thing?  I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid, I'm just calling it what it is.  "The way I see it is the way it is and anyone else who sees it a different way is wrong" is narrow-minded.

When thinking about the entire trilogy, the ending is academically and artistically terrible. The obliteration of all choices in the game and the lack of closure is a complete disregard for the artistic signature of the ME series and the story-driven RPG genre. The introduction of the stupid and illogical starchild at the 11th hour is purely ridiculous in a literary sense. Then of course there's silliness like teleporting squaddies, robot DNA, and the stargazer scene. The plotholes are there and the ending can definitely be called objectively bad for it.  

[Lmaoboat]

Russalka wrote...

There is a difference between criticism and simply stomping on the joy of others.

The OP would get a similar reaction if he went onto a Star Wars forum and made a topic discussing what a great character Jar Jar Binks was, and how made made the prequels better than the original trilogy.

[The Angry One]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

brb, looking up the codex entry for teleporting squadmates with the healing power of Wolverine.

Teleporting squadmates?  The Conduit, the beam from London to the Citadel.  The Mass Relays.

What the hell do either of those have to do with teleporting squadmates?

[Jenonax]

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

If someone is saying that it is a fact that the ending is bad, and that other opinions are wrong, then yes, that is false.  Regardless of how many people say the ending is bad, it is still subjective, not objective.  It's not fact, plain and simple.

And you are YET AGAIN confusing opinion with objective fact.

It is a fact that the endings are bad. They make no sense. They run counter to the themes of Mass Effect. They introduce a new character in the final stretch with a nonsensical twist. They nullify all events in all 3 games up to that point.
They are objectively bad.

You have been given every chance to prove otherwise, and you have not.

It is your OPINION if you like it or not. You can, again, like it all you want.
It's still bad. Maybe for some arthouse storyline it would be good, but that is not ME.

Feel the overwhelming urge to weigh in here.

The Angry One's correct in this.  Whether or not you liked the ending is subjective.  No one can tell you how to feel about something.  We can't even tell ourselves how to feel.

But objectively from a narrative standpoint, the ending is a travesty.  It goes against the fundamentals of storytelling.  Basic things like theme, cohesion, character development all go out the window.  The fact that they strip the main antagonists of all their terror, power and allure and make them playthings at the eleventh hour automatically strips the narrative of its primary basic conflict between the protagonist and the antagonist.

Storytelling has rules.  It isn't a completely free for all medium.  As much as you might like to think you can do whatever you want, you can't.  End of story.  The ending manages to pull of as much rule breaking as is possible in a five minute period.  

Breaking of the reader-writer contract - check
Insertion of Deus Ex Machina to resolve/explain main conflict - check
Rendering primary character powerless in the final act - check
No resolution to conflict between protagonist and antagonist - check (Catalyst is NOT the main baddie.  Harbinger is.  The Reapers as a whole are.  The Catalyst is a wholely unnecessary DEM)
Complete abandonment of themes/lore - check

Like it all you want, I've no right to tell you otherwise, but the ending is a failure no matter what subjective feelings anyone has towards it.

[AlexXIV]

Lmaoboat wrote...

Russalka wrote...

There is a difference between criticism and simply stomping on the joy of others.

The OP would get a similar reaction if he went onto a Star Wars forum and made a topic discussing what a great character Jar Jar Binks was, and how made made the prequels better than the original trilogy.

And I would not in the least be surprised that he would be doing that.

[MCPOWill]

METALPUNKS wrote...

 I thought everything came together perfectly. It was too beautiful to even put into words. It made me think about life and and how extrodinary it is. Someone who sits down and plays all the Mass Effects would at the least have a different outlook on our existence. I think that is the whole point to the game, if bioware intended for you to have a spiritual experience then they did their job, they did more. I know it's only a video game but it's really more than that for me, it's a perfectly beautiful take on life. I take my hat off to Bioware, I wouldn't change a thing. 

 Also there may be a chance for more, right. First you see Shepard(I'm assuming) take a gasp for air, it may have been his last but we really don't know. Then my favorite cut scene of the game, the boy and the man on that planet. The boy asks for one more story of THE Shepard and the man says ok one more. This tells me shepard lives, at that point you'd think the man would have told Shepards whole story because he ended with what we saw last. I don't get how the story can continue since there would be no way to get around but maybe it does. If it doesn't then that's ok to. I'm happy and I really am more than impressed with what Bioware has done. I really was expecting something horrible after all the threads started popping up all over the place but it wasn't horrible at all for me, the furthest from it. Thank you Bioware for making the best and my favorite video game series of all time. I'm only sad or upset because it's ended, or is it?

I support this thread and your opinion, I found the same experience in the ending.

[AlexXIV]

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

brb, looking up the codex entry for teleporting squadmates with the healing power of Wolverine.

Teleporting squadmates?  The Conduit, the beam from London to the Citadel.  The Mass Relays.

What the hell do either of those have to do with teleporting squadmates?

You're argueing with the guy who said every plothole is defensible. He'll pull out Chewbacca defense next.

[Geneaux486]

Dr. rotinaj wrote...
When thinking about the entire trilogy, the ending is academically and artistically terrible. The obliteration of all choices in the game and the lack of closure is a complete disregard for the artistic signature of the ME series and the story-driven RPG genre.

 
But the choices matter all throughout Mass Effect 3.  Closure is obtained through being able to say goodbye to each and every squadmate and former squadmate before you make that final push.  You know what everyone plans to do, and you know whether or not they can do it based on how well the Crucible worked, which is based on your EMS, which is based on your choices.  If you're telling me we don't get enough closure, and our choices don't matter enough, that's a legit complaint, but it's also a matter of opinion.  Do you get what I'm saying now?  It's not objective, it is subjective.

The introduction of the stupid and illogical starchild at the 11th hour is purely ridiculous in a literary sense.

Well we knew there was a Catalyst, and AI/VI constructs appearing to provide exposition isn't anything new to Mass Effect.   

Then of course there's silliness like teleporting squaddies, robot DNA, and the stargazer scene. The plotholes are there and the ending can definitely be called objectively bad for it.  

Robot DNA is not what we get in the synthesis ending, we get a mutation of synthetic DNA.  The stargazer, honestly, I could take or leave.  It's after the fact, and it had no impact on me, but it wasn't a plothole.  Like I said, it is debatable whether or not they are "plotholes".  All I'm arguing now is that the opinions on the ending are just that, opinions, and there are equally valid ones for and against the endings. 

[Arken]

The Angry One wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

If someone is saying that it is a fact that the ending is bad, and that other opinions are wrong, then yes, that is false.  Regardless of how many people say the ending is bad, it is still subjective, not objective.  It's not fact, plain and simple.

And you are YET AGAIN confusing opinion with objective fact.

It is a fact that the endings are bad. They make no sense. They run counter to the themes of Mass Effect. They introduce a new character in the final stretch with a nonsensical twist. They nullify all events in all 3 games up to that point.
They are objectively bad.

You have been given every chance to prove otherwise, and you have not.

It is your OPINION if you like it or not. You can, again, like it all you want.
It's still bad. Maybe for some arthouse storyline it would be good, but that is not ME.

Basically this.

On a literary level, the Mass Effect 3 ending is horrible. If Bioware wants to make "art" then they should first learn basic story structure.

As for you liking the ending...

Go ahead. You can like what ever you want to like. I like a lot of movie that critics gave poor reviews to. I recognize that the flaws they point out are true, but I still manage to enjoy the film.

An example is Hot Tub Time Machine.

It only got a 50%, but I really enjoyed the movie and thought it was very funny. It broke from a lot of typical story telling conventions, and had characters who did things that seem like stuff people would actually do if they were sent back in time.

Critics pointed out the flaws in the film, but I liked it regardless.

The Mass Effect 3 ending is no different. Someone's opinion of it is their opinion.

[Baronesa]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Robot DNA is not what we get in the synthesis ending, we get a mutation of synthetic DNA.  The stargazer, honestly, I could take or leave.  It's after the fact, and it had no impact on me, but it wasn't a plothole.  Like I said, it is debatable whether or not they are "plotholes".  All I'm arguing now is that the opinions on the ending are just that, opinions, and there are equally valid ones for and against the endings. 

Mutation of synthetic DNA???? WHAT???

WHAAAAAAAAAT????????

Synthetics have no DNA... how can something they don't have be mutated???

It has also been stablished that the synthetics we have found are not limited to the physical bodies, they are software, hardware is just a platform, so how the hell can you introduce (introduce NOT mutate) DNA to a software????


It makes no  sense whatsoever!!!!!

Modifié par Baronesa, 31 mars 2012 - 01:04 .

[Geneaux486]

Baronesa wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Robot DNA is not what we get in the synthesis ending, we get a mutation of synthetic DNA.  The stargazer, honestly, I could take or leave.  It's after the fact, and it had no impact on me, but it wasn't a plothole.  Like I said, it is debatable whether or not they are "plotholes".  All I'm arguing now is that the opinions on the ending are just that, opinions, and there are equally valid ones for and against the endings. 

Mutation of synthetic DNA???? WHAT???

WHAAAAAAAAAT????????

Synthetics have no DNA... how can something they don't have be mutated???

My bad, I meant that organic DNA is mutated to incorporate synthetic material.

[Machazareel]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

brb, looking up the codex entry for teleporting squadmates with the healing power of Wolverine.

Teleporting squadmates?  The Conduit, the beam from London to the Citadel.  The Mass Relays.  What healing powers are you referring to?

None of those will enable my squadmates to teleport to the Normandy. I don't really know where you're going with this. Anyways, g'night.

[VoodooDrackus]

Loved the ending too. Good to see more and more people expressing how it made them feel and what they got out of it.

[AlexXIV]

Geneaux486 wrote...
Robot DNA is not what we get in the synthesis ending, we get a mutation of synthetic DNA.

Rofl. When does mutation of organics lead to anything that is not organic? Do you even have a clue about anything or are you just repeating things you overheard somewhere? Give me a link please where cyborgs are a result of mutation ...

[The Angry One]

Yeah, don't bother with Geneaux. If you refute his arguments he'll just ignore you.

[Geneaux486]

Machazareel wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

brb, looking up the codex entry for teleporting squadmates with the healing power of Wolverine.

Teleporting squadmates?  The Conduit, the beam from London to the Citadel.  The Mass Relays.  What healing powers are you referring to?

None of those will enable my squadmates to teleport to the Normandy. I don't really know where you're going with this. Anyways, g'night.

The Normandy is a mobile ship.  Your squadmates were just in a massive firefight with Harbinger that very few survived.  It is not impossible or even ulikley that Joker or even Steve didn't pick them up.

Rofl. When does mutation of organics lead to anything that is not organic? Do you even have a clue about anything or are you just repeating things you overheard somewhere? Give me a link please where cyborgs are a result of mutation ...

Who says they're cyborgs?  It's an alteration on a molecular level, introduced by a foreign wave of energy.  In a universe where ships can instantly beam from one giant tuning fork to another.  You're arbitrarily deciding where to suspend your disbelief.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 31 mars 2012 - 01:08 .

[joblagz]

its your opinion.. but just because you like it doesnt mean the ending is good.. the ending is bad, very it is an established fact.. but some people like bad stuff.. like BBW or necrophilia.. each to their own..

[Theb82]

Except hot tub time machine is a 50% film and your comparing it to a 10% game.

[thesnake777]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Machazareel wrote...

brb, looking up the codex entry for teleporting squadmates with the healing power of Wolverine.

Teleporting squadmates?  The Conduit, the beam from London to the Citadel.  The Mass Relays.  What healing powers are you referring to?

None of those will enable my squadmates to teleport to the Normandy. I don't really know where you're going with this. Anyways, g'night.

The Normandy is a mobile ship.  Your squadmates were just in a massive firefight with Harbinger that very few survived.  It is not impossible or even ulikley that Joker or even Steve didn't pick them up.

Dude cortez was grounded from the damnge the transport took. Joker was in the middle of a fire fight with the rest of the fleet

[Jenonax]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Robot DNA is not what we get in the synthesis ending, we get a mutation of synthetic DNA.  The stargazer, honestly, I could take or leave.  It's after the fact, and it had no impact on me, but it wasn't a plothole.  Like I said, it is debatable whether or not they are "plotholes".  All I'm arguing now is that the opinions on the ending are just that, opinions, and there are equally valid ones for and against the endings. 

Mutation of synthetic DNA???? WHAT???

WHAAAAAAAAAT????????

Synthetics have no DNA... how can something they don't have be mutated???

My bad, I meant that organic DNA is mutated to incorporate synthetic material.

How?  Did we grow the synthetic materials?  Were we spliced with Geth?  Did Geth start growing hair?  Exactly how did the Catalyst do it?  Why did EDI look exactly the same when she climbed out the Normandy?  Where's her new organic bits?  

NOt trying to be nasty, the synthetic ending just really perplexes me.  I really could do with some answers

[METALPUNKS]

AlexXIV wrote.

Dr. rotinaj wrote.

AxisEvolve wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...
If someone is saying that it is a fact that the ending is bad, and that other opinions are wrong, then yes, that is false.  Regardless of how many people say the ending is bad, it is still subjective, not objective.  It's not fact, plain and simple.

I'm not sure they were saying that. But saying the ending has plotholes is a fact. 
>Indoctrination theory
>Plotholes
Sorry but you have to pick one. 

I am saying that and I'll stand by my opinion. The ending, unless indoctrination theory is correct, is completely bad. Anyone that thinks the ending is good is glossing over the enormous stupidity. Unless of course they believe in the indoc theory.

That something is bad or badly done is not subjective. It is an objective fact. That people like a bad story is entirely subjective though. There are multiple threads and posts and essays of collected facts by fans that prove that the ending is a slobby rush job. The only reason people post here to defend the ending is to defend Bioware for some reason.

 Holt snot! Who cares who proves what!? I don't need proof of anything. A played a series of games, it ended, now I'm extremely happy with it. Nothing can prove otherwise. Just because a bunch of people post their opinions and rip apart the ending doesn't mean that is the 'right' way or the wrong way. In sure you've loves Bioware before, no you don't. 

[Geneaux486]

Basically, if you actually think that your view of the game is correct, and any views that disagree with yours are wrong, you need to get over your massive ego.  You are dealing in opinions when you interpret any aspect of a medium you didn't create, not fact.  I can't believe there's even a debate over that. XD

Dude cortez was grounded from the damnge the transport took. Joker was in the middle of a fire fight with the rest of the fleet

For one thing, Cortez wasn't flying the only transport in the universe.  For another thing, we don't know what Joker was in the middle of doing when Shepard entered the Citadel.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 31 mars 2012 - 01:12 .

[Russalka]

Theb82 wrote...

Except hot tub time machine is a 50% film and your comparing it to a 10% game.

By the standards, ME3 is hardly below 50%.

And comparing liking the endings to necrophilia? Seriously? 

[Zix13]

Jenonax wrote...

Breaking of the reader-writer contract - check
Insertion of Deus Ex Machina to resolve/explain main conflict - check
Rendering primary character powerless in the final act - check
No resolution to conflict between protagonist and antagonist - check (Catalyst is NOT the main baddie.  Harbinger is.  The Reapers as a whole are.  The Catalyst is a wholely unnecessary DEM)
Complete abandonment of themes/lore - check

This. All of these( minus the inevitable deus ex machina ) would result in a bad ending. The ME3 ending had multiple glaring fundamental problems with it. Objectively, it was a terrible ending that never should have been written by anyone with any sense of things literary. Whether you liked it is your business.

Also that Geneaux486 guy is either trolling or so selective in his opinions it's laughable.

Modifié par Zix13, 31 mars 2012 - 01:12 .