330 réponses à ce sujet

[RevanchistStenn]

If things stop being art because they are changed, then every game, movie, book, and song you ever read, heard or saw is just the shallow shell of a rough draft's corpse.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Ultra Prism wrote...

game informer is off my list

get over yourself when people disagree with you.

Seriously, that is kind of arrogant. No offense, or anything but the fact that people have opinions makes them bad?

I have always thought GI was a poorly written magazine that only survives because people get it for free with Gamestop discount cards.  GI only exists to make sales for Gamestop so forgive me if I don't take their word for anything and find their reviews poorly written.  I can't remember the last time I saw them give any game a bad score.

[SilentPhenomed]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

They're basically saying that fans don't have the right to demand a new ending.

Exactly. Lol, I wouldn't say we have no right to demand...I mean that's voicing our opinion....but we shouldn't be expecting a new ending or hating Bioware forever because we didn't like how ME3 ended. We shouldn't be pressuring them to change the ending for us when it's BIOWARE'S STORY. You don't like it? Okay, forget about it or deal wth it, IMO, that's how I see it lol.

But there's the excuse that "but Mass effect IS YOUR STORY!!" It's not >_> Sorry, but that's the news. Mass Effect is already a predetermined story. We simply make our own Commander Shepard (or stick to default) and pick the many paths given to us throughout. We start from the same beginning, reach the same end. Our choices only affect what's in between. Thus, that's why we replay games...to see "what would happen if i did this or that?" We'd know what happens in the end and other certain parts of the game.

So that being said, it's Bioware's story. i don't think they should make a new ending because the fans want one...they should make one because they want a new one or something. It's Bioware's story, their creativity, you have to respect that. Yes you paid 60 or 80 bucks for mass effect 3 and expected amazing, diverse endings, but it was never guaranteed that you'd love the ending or that they'd be VASTLY diverse.

[LinksOcarina]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Ultra Prism wrote...

game informer is off my list

get over yourself when people disagree with you.

Seriously, that is kind of arrogant. No offense, or anything but the fact that people have opinions makes them bad?

I have always thought GI was a poorly written magazine that only survives because people get it for free with Gamestop discount cards.  GI only exists to make sales for Gamestop so forgive me if I don't take their word for anything and find their reviews poorly written.  I can't remember the last time I saw them give any game a bad score.

I don't disagree with that, but I did read the article, and Jeff M did try to justify it from a neutral standpoint.

The problem with this is that its hard to be neutral to such an issue, so any article for or against the ending is already biased in the minds eye of the population. It's why I said **** it to the issue and wrote a socratic debate.

[RevanchistStenn]

Saying the phrase "setting a dangerous precedent" is a rallying cry I've heard over and over, and it's only said by people who completely ignore history.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

SilentPhenomed wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

They're basically saying that fans don't have the right to demand a new ending.

Exactly. Lol, I wouldn't say we have no right to demand...I mean that's voicing our opinion....but we shouldn't be expecting a new ending or hating Bioware forever because we didn't like how ME3 ended. We shouldn't be pressuring them to change the ending for us when it's BIOWARE'S STORY. You don't like it? Okay, forget about it or deal wth it, IMO, that's how I see it lol.

But there's the excuse that "but Mass effect IS YOUR STORY!!" It's not >_> Sorry, but that's the news. Mass Effect is already a predetermined story. We simply make our own Commander Shepard (or stick to default) and pick the many paths given to us throughout. We start from the same beginning, reach the same end. Our choices only affect what's in between. Thus, that's why we replay games...to see "what would happen if i did this or that?" We'd know what happens in the end and other certain parts of the game.

So that being said, it's Bioware's story. i don't think they should make a new ending because the fans want one...they should make one because they want a new one or something. It's Bioware's story, their creativity, you have to respect that. Yes you paid 60 or 80 bucks for mass effect 3 and expected amazing, diverse endings, but it was never guaranteed that you'd love the ending or that they'd be VASTLY diverse.

So you are saying it is okay for companies to lie to get people's money?  Why not just go whole hog and let Bioware excutives hold people up in the streets at gun point and take their wallets?

Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”


EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever
before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle
for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike
Gamble.


In an inteview with NowGamer at Gamescom, we asked if BioWare was taking risks with Mass Effect 3's
plot, including a negative ending in which the Reapers win. Gamble simply said, "Yes". We asked him again to confirm what he had just said and he said, "Yes".


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....ry_details.html


"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play
all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll
still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a
totally different way of playing"


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst...active-stories/

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and
the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all
of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to
live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”

Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computera...ly-good/?page=2

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And
even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to
some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending
where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things
- it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the
final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who
plays it.”

Also they are still lying about not needing MP to get SP endings,how is that okay again?

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

RevanchistStenn wrote...

If things stop being art because they are changed, then every game, movie, book, and song you ever read, heard or saw is just the shallow shell of a rough draft's corpse.

Yeah I have been making that same point for weeks and so far no pro ender has come up with answer for it.

Why is it okay for bioware to patch,release DLC for their games,and end ME3 with an add for DLC if making changes to art means it is not art any more?  No one has been able to answer this point.

[Blc949]

I do find it odd that a game that was so much about choice that effects the game, when people want one extra choice other people are telling them that another choice is wrong....

Why be so into a game with so many choices then get angry when people would like some extra ones?

[Yalision]

Yep. Avoiding links to these sites so long as it is possible. Tired of propaganda.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Blc949 wrote...

I do find it odd that a game that was so much about choice that effects the game, when people want one extra choice other people are telling them that another choice is wrong....

Why be so into a game with so many choices then get angry when people would like some extra ones?

Yeah why are there any choices in the game at all if art is the artist's way or the highway?  Also why did Bioware lie about the endings and why is it okay for them to sell DLC and patches that change their games?

[rvgifford]

Don't give them traffic. Forbes, however . . . rocks.

[LinksOcarina]

rvgifford wrote...

Don't give them traffic. Forbes, however . . . rocks.

Forbes is just as biased though. They are just on your side and better written.

They honestly have not had a new article regarding Mass Effect for two weeks if you read the articles.

[The RPGenius]

Ha! People still read Game Informer? That's adorable. Their level of journalistic competence has always made them the corner kiddie lemonade stand of gaming news, so every time I hear they still haven't closed down, it just always seems so precious.

Modifié par The RPGenius, 31 mars 2012 - 02:40 .

[lillitheris]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

RevanchistStenn wrote...

If things stop being art because they are changed, then every game, movie, book, and song you ever read, heard or saw is just the shallow shell of a rough draft's corpse.

Yeah I have been making that same point for weeks and so far no pro ender has come up with answer for it.

Why is it okay for bioware to patch,release DLC for their games,and end ME3 with an add for DLC if making changes to art means it is not art any more?  No one has been able to answer this point.

A complete, published work is not a draft. It's, frankly, silly to equate the two - especially since the argument can easily be shot down.

The argument with ME3 boils down to it being released when it was not yet completed, and having compromised the original artistic integrity of the work because of that.

[Eyeshield21]

The Angry One wrote...

Doomhams wrote...

From the article:

but the demand from angry fans for a new ending is unprecedented. BioWare complying with these demands, in some form or another, is also unprecedented, and is a goodwill tactic I believe will likely backfire

I think Bethesda and their Broken Steel DLC and the mucho money it made them would like to say hi.

Hi Bethesda!!

[LinksOcarina]

lillitheris wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

RevanchistStenn wrote...

If things stop being art because they are changed, then every game, movie, book, and song you ever read, heard or saw is just the shallow shell of a rough draft's corpse.

Yeah I have been making that same point for weeks and so far no pro ender has come up with answer for it.

Why is it okay for bioware to patch,release DLC for their games,and end ME3 with an add for DLC if making changes to art means it is not art any more?  No one has been able to answer this point.

A complete, published work is not a draft. It's, frankly, silly to equate the two - especially since the argument can easily be shot down.

The argument with ME3 boils down to it being released when it was not yet completed, and having compromised the original artistic integrity of the work because of that.

but games can be art with DLC. Why? Because many works have had add-ons, as it were, that were part of artistic endeavors. Sequels to artworks, seires of artworks only valuable because of the whole set, ammendums to stories lilke sherlock holmes for an example, its all art in the end IF YOU PERCIEVE IT as such.

That is the key here in the end. Do you see it as art.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 31 mars 2012 - 02:47 .

[clos]

Come on people, you know how this works.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Lots of that will get you any reviews you want from so called 'professional reviewers'.

And EA/Bioware have dished out more for ME3 than they ever have.

Edit: Just make sure you read user reviews from now on. Can't trust the paid for advertisers...I mean, the "critics".

Modifié par clos, 31 mars 2012 - 02:49 .

[LinksOcarina]

clos wrote...

Come one people, you know how this works.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Lots of that will get you any reviews you want from so called 'professional reviewers'.

And EA/Bioware have dished out more for ME3 than they ever have.

Lies.

And as a game reviewer, I take offense to this. At least, not for everyone. i can't say for IGN or anything, but I can say for myself that this is not exactly true.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 31 mars 2012 - 02:50 .

[Wolven_Soul]

Not looking at this.  I lost a lot of respect for Game Informer already over their reaction this issue.  From a lot of the stuff that I have been reading lately about the relationship between Game Developers and Game Reviewers, I no longer trust Game Reviews period. 

I mean, I know that even with the endings Mass Effect is a good game, but even if the endings were fantastic, it is by no means a perfect game.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

lillitheris wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

RevanchistStenn wrote...

If things stop being art because they are changed, then every game, movie, book, and song you ever read, heard or saw is just the shallow shell of a rough draft's corpse.

Yeah I have been making that same point for weeks and so far no pro ender has come up with answer for it.

Why is it okay for bioware to patch,release DLC for their games,and end ME3 with an add for DLC if making changes to art means it is not art any more?  No one has been able to answer this point.

A complete, published work is not a draft. It's, frankly, silly to equate the two - especially since the argument can easily be shot down.

The argument with ME3 boils down to it being released when it was not yet completed, and having compromised the original artistic integrity of the work because of that.

Mass Effect 2 is a published work that had patches and DLC released for it and ME3 is a published work but it still ending with an add for game changing DLC.  As I said Bioware has never been in the art business by their own logic so it doesn't matter if they release new endings.

[Barbarossa2010]

RevanchistStenn wrote...

Saying the phrase "setting a dangerous precedent" is a rallying cry I've heard over and over, and it's only said by people who completely ignore history.

Yep.  And you want to know a really dangerous precedent from history, for any company to follow?  

Malign and ignore your customers and fail to please them.

The people who use the "dangerous precedent" argument are typically those with little to no stake in actually saying it.

[twizbuck]

Stuff like this makes me resent working at gamestop.

[Barbarossa2010]

LinksOcarina wrote...

rvgifford wrote...

Don't give them traffic. Forbes, however . . . rocks.

Forbes is just as biased though. They are just on your side and better written.

They honestly have not had a new article regarding Mass Effect for two weeks if you read the articles.

This was published today.

http://www.forbes.co...ffect-protests/

[RevanchistStenn]

lillitheris wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

RevanchistStenn wrote...

If things stop being art because they are changed, then every game, movie, book, and song you ever read, heard or saw is just the shallow shell of a rough draft's corpse.

Yeah I have been making that same point for weeks and so far no pro ender has come up with answer for it.

Why is it okay for bioware to patch,release DLC for their games,and end ME3 with an add for DLC if making changes to art means it is not art any more?  No one has been able to answer this point.

A complete, published work is not a draft. It's, frankly, silly to equate the two - especially since the argument can easily be shot down.

You mean like my two links below?

[Wolven_Soul]

joe1852 wrote...

we loved them for doing the cupcake story now we hate them yeaaaaah!!!!!!!

I didn't love them for the cupcake story.