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[jspiess]

Love Gameinformer, but they are killing me with this crap

[Jamie9]

This comment is not meant to offend anyone's opinions. If you feel offended, presume it was unintentional.

Does anyone feel that people's standards of writing are decreasing due to the sheer amount of entertainment the world is privy to now? I mean you can like the ending to ME3, but that doesn't make it good.

GI in that article states that it is good that the 3 choices are vague. It is bad writing to make things so vague you can hardly differentiate them, and not have any sense of the repercussions of those decisions. Wondering what BSN thinks...

[Hexley UK]

Jamie9 wrote...

This comment is not meant to offend anyone's opinions. If you feel offended, presume it was unintentional.

Does anyone feel that people's standards of writing are decreasing due to the sheer amount of entertainment the world is privy to now? I mean you can like the ending to ME3, but that doesn't make it good.

GI in that article states that it is good that the 3 choices are vague. It is bad writing to make things so vague you can hardly differentiate them, and not have any sense of the repercussions of those decisions. Wondering what BSN thinks...

I think it's utter tosh, if you wrote a movie like that people would hate it and rightly so.

[SolidisusSnake1]

I have never looked to GI for any sort of reviews or opinions on games, they are basically just a big PR site for games. They usually get first reveals and the cool BTS details on upcoming titles, due to this fact their reviews can hardly be described as bias free especially since they are owned by GameStop.

There job is to get you excited for a game to drive up pre-orders, if they start bashing devs how many do you think are going to give them a first reveal again?

[txmn1016]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Zion60660 wrote...

Game Informer is pretty awful. In reality, most video game reviewers are hardly qualified to critique anything involving a storyline, as most of them seem to have completely forgotten how one writes fiction. That whole "dramatic arc" and "hero story" thing. Oh and plot holes, they're pretty bad about ignoring those.

Yeah their reviews have always been awful and they always shout down anyone who says any game may not be perfect in their letters section. I can't remember the last time I saw a review in the mag where they gave any game less then a 7.0 rating.  They are owned by gamestop so they exist to sell games and they do whatever it takes to do that.  I only get the mag because I have gmaestop discount card.

This!!!!!!

[Wes Finley]

It's nice that Bioware has given us this great opportunity to see all these "journalists" out in the open, completely unable to relate to their audience, and in many cases unwilling to try to bridge that gap between their initial views and that of their audience.

I hope this "Art is untouchable" discussion continues, long and drawn out, until the industry finally owns up to the fact that it's completely full of ****, that every other medium has already been over this topic and came to a conclusion NOT in line with what these experts keep feeding us, and that desperately clinging to this turd ending was the crown jewel of a very long string of bad decisions.

The ending was bad. Objectively poor storytelling. Further, it was NOT what we were told we were buying with our money. The exact opposite in some cases. Artistic considerations aside, that was a business mistake that needs to be acknowledged at least, and rectified if Bioware expects to keep it's fan base.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Hexley UK wrote...

Murkman4683 wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

No one seems to want to take the consumer's rights into the equation. If the game a had bug that caused the game to freeze and no longer progress before Shepard went to earth, than I would have a faulty product that I would demand fixing. In the same way, the ending is a gamebreaking bug for me. It is riddled with plotholes, rushed, out of character, and changes the tone of the entire trilogy in the last ten minutes.

And yet, despite the fact that I was promised a satisfying conclusion and answers to all my questions, I'm not allowed to demand something better? Should we begin ending all games "rocks fall, you die"? After all, the developers are allowed to say whatever lies they come up with and then ignore all those things and do whatever they want in game. And the consumer who paid for it must just accept whatever **** they serve up.

That is the thing though, there is no law stating that if a game ships with bugs they have to fix it, it is not like the product is regualted by some law that requires a certain standard. 

Which means the same could be said for the ending and asking for more of a clarification.

No there is no law...don't you think that that is wrong? The game industry is the only industry where you can pay for a product and it doesn't have to work!

Yeah i wrote my congresman a letter last week pointing this out.  i don't think anything will happen but still at least I did something about it.   Still as it stands now there is nothing stoping gaming companies from selling us blank discs.  Most stores don't let you return video games so there is no way for a cheated gamer to get money back for a game that does not work.

[Haiyato]

yoshibb wrote...

No one seems to want to take the consumer's rights into the equation. If the game a had bug that caused the game to freeze and no longer progress before Shepard went to earth, than I would have a faulty product that I would demand fixing. In the same way, the ending is a gamebreaking bug for me. It is riddled with plotholes, rushed, out of character, and changes the tone of the entire trilogy in the last ten minutes.

And yet, despite the fact that I was promised a satisfying conclusion and answers to all my questions, I'm not allowed to demand something better? Should we begin ending all games "rocks fall, you die"? After all, the developers are allowed to say whatever lies they come up with and then ignore all those things and do whatever they want in game. And the consumer who paid for it must just accept whatever **** they serve up.

What is this consumer's right?

No I kid and I agree with your statements there. It amazes me, how invincible the industry has become though. People throw their money to these gaming companies for products and if its crap oh well. 60 bucks out the window nothing you can do about it except trade it as a used game.

Bethseda got called out, took the call out with a grain of salt and did what needed to be done. The studios that did Infamous 2 changed the look of the main character due to fan outrage. I respect what they do, but it goes to show this is a business first and foremost, and we are the customer and those two are doing what business do. Listen to teh customer. If you want to keep me then you have to offer me something I will enjoy and take my feedback seriously. Yea I get the whole feelings are hurt, but its life. My work gets criticised with a fine tooth and comb. I have to take with a grain of salt though. Take the feedback and do what is best for the customer. Sure I can hide behind the skirts of "artistic integrity" but the bottom line is I am not going to bite the hand that feeds me to make a statement lol. Accept it, learn from it, and implement it.  Just tired of the direction Bioware has been going. I still hope some good will come from all this next weekend, but if it not time to move on at that point.

[Narayan23]

For me it's the other way around because I have seen so many movies and read a lot of books i actually feel i'm better qualified to judge something on its merits on the other hand i don't usually read or watch the big blockbuster stuff so you might be onto something.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

txmn1016 wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Zion60660 wrote...

Game Informer is pretty awful. In reality, most video game reviewers are hardly qualified to critique anything involving a storyline, as most of them seem to have completely forgotten how one writes fiction. That whole "dramatic arc" and "hero story" thing. Oh and plot holes, they're pretty bad about ignoring those.

Yeah their reviews have always been awful and they always shout down anyone who says any game may not be perfect in their letters section. I can't remember the last time I saw a review in the mag where they gave any game less then a 7.0 rating.  They are owned by gamestop so they exist to sell games and they do whatever it takes to do that.  I only get the mag because I have gmaestop discount card.

This!!!!!!

Yeah I use to get EGM because they were better with their reviews but sadly EGM is no more:crying:

[Zu Long]

So here's what I don't get- If you liked the ending the way it was, DON'T DOWNLOAD THE DLC. It's that simple.

[Hexley UK]

Zu Long wrote...

So here's what I don't get- If you liked the ending the way it was, DON'T DOWNLOAD THE DLC. It's that simple.

Simple logic...is too simple.

[Unit-Alpha]

Not subscribing to them again.

[devSin]

I have to believe BioWare isn't going to change the ending (or the ending isn't even finished yet, or something); otherwise, they would be trying like hell to extricate themselves from the middle of this "art" nonsense. But it keeps getting trotted out on slow news days, and BioWare seems perfectly content to have their decision described as one that will influence the future of the gaming industry.

I had been checking news on Game Informer for a time, and was hoping for a reason to not have to bother anymore. Reason found.

[die-yng]

It's so unbelievably dumb that all those gaming journalists keep on telling us how great the ending is, when it is clearly not.

People have given this to literature and creative writing professors and docents, people who are writers themselves have analyzed it.

And it is a weak ending. It simply is! It doesn't stand up to logic, reason, it goes against the flow of the narrative...
I guess we've all read the analysis' now.

Still they argue as if it is such a creative and intelligent ending... cut the crap, you so called journalists.
If you think Bioware should stick to it's ending and give their fans the finger, because you don't ever want fans to be able to influence the ending of any game (even though corporations, focus groups and the like already influence it), just stick to that.
Don't go on telling us that something that is bad is good, no one who has played the game (well almost no one, since there is a small minority of gamers who actually like the ending) will think it is.

[Hexley UK]

die-yng wrote...

It's so unbelievably dumb that all those gaming journalists keep on telling us how great the ending is, when it is clearly not.

People have given this to literature and creative writing professors and docents, people who are writers themselves have analyzed it.

And it is a weak ending. It simply is! It doesn't stand up to logic, reason, it goes against the flow of the narrative...
I guess we've all read the analysis' now.

Still they argue as if it is such a creative and intelligent ending... cut the crap, you so called journalists.
If you think Bioware should stick to it's ending and give their fans the finger, because you don't ever want fans to be able to influence the ending of any game (even though corporations, focus groups and the like already influence it), just stick to that.
Don't go on telling us that something that is bad is good, no one who has played the game (well almost no one, since there is a small minority of gamers who actually like the ending) will think it is.

There are 3 lights!

+10 geek points for recognition.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Yeah well said and here is how it ends. Bioware has no right to our money,we don't have to buy their stuff and if the ending is not changed they lose our money. Artist who make art no body likes end up poor. if Bioware wants to make that type of art that is fine but they have no right to complain when they end up poor.

[blooregard]

From what I could tell he's not doing the "Colin Moriarty" and saying "derp artistic integrity" he's thinking more along the lines of "if we change the endings people may still be pissed at the new one" which could ruin bioware further then this little charade of theirs.

I see his point but still when you lie about your game you kinda have to correct your mistake.

[soundhole]

Wes Finley wrote...

It's nice that Bioware has given us this great opportunity to see all these "journalists" out in the open, completely unable to relate to their audience, and in many cases unwilling to try to bridge that gap between their initial views and that of their audience.

I hope this "Art is untouchable" discussion continues, long and drawn out, until the industry finally owns up to the fact that it's completely full of ****, that every other medium has already been over this topic and came to a conclusion NOT in line with what these experts keep feeding us, and that desperately clinging to this turd ending was the crown jewel of a very long string of bad decisions.

The ending was bad. Objectively poor storytelling. Further, it was NOT what we were told we were buying with our money. The exact opposite in some cases. Artistic considerations aside, that was a business mistake that needs to be acknowledged at least, and rectified if Bioware expects to keep it's fan base.

I agree.  This whole discussion is kind of drawn out and annoying at this point, but it's a vaccine that's going to innoculate the art as a whole.  It's all a part of video games "growing up".

[Mev186]

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Yeah well said and here is how it ends. Bioware has no right to our money,we don't have to buy their stuff and if the ending is not changed they lose our money. Artist who make art no body likes end up poor. if Bioware wants to make that type of art that is fine but they have no right to complain when they end up poor.

Good point. It's important for Bioware to consider that people can lose their jobs over this. They need to assess whether or not they are willing to lose a good portion of their fanbase or stand by what they create, even if its awful. Is so called "artistic integrity" worth someone losing their job ? 

[yoshibb]

Hexley UK wrote...

Murkman4683 wrote...

yoshibb wrote...

No one seems to want to take the consumer's rights into the equation. If the game a had bug that caused the game to freeze and no longer progress before Shepard went to earth, than I would have a faulty product that I would demand fixing. In the same way, the ending is a gamebreaking bug for me. It is riddled with plotholes, rushed, out of character, and changes the tone of the entire trilogy in the last ten minutes.

And yet, despite the fact that I was promised a satisfying conclusion and answers to all my questions, I'm not allowed to demand something better? Should we begin ending all games "rocks fall, you die"? After all, the developers are allowed to say whatever lies they come up with and then ignore all those things and do whatever they want in game. And the consumer who paid for it must just accept whatever **** they serve up.

That is the thing though, there is no law stating that if a game ships with bugs they have to fix it, it is not like the product is regualted by some law that requires a certain standard. 

Which means the same could be said for the ending and asking for more of a clarification.

No there is no law...don't you think that that is wrong? The game industry is the only industry where you can pay for a product and it doesn't have to work!

It's really sad, isn't it? I think it's about time gamers started to question these things more. It's only a matter of time before they start taking the ending out and selling it seperately. Oh wait, that's already happening.

[DoctorCrowtgamer]

Mev186 wrote...

DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...

Yeah well said and here is how it ends. Bioware has no right to our money,we don't have to buy their stuff and if the ending is not changed they lose our money. Artist who make art no body likes end up poor. if Bioware wants to make that type of art that is fine but they have no right to complain when they end up poor.

Good point. It's important for Bioware to consider that people can lose their jobs over this. They need to assess whether or not they are willing to lose a good portion of their fanbase or stand by what they create, even if its awful. Is so called "artistic integrity" worth someone losing their job ? 

yeah for all the people who say we are being mean to the Bioware staff I would ask "which is worse telling a company that if they don't fix a problem they will lose busines and try to keep them afloat or not saying a thing and then watching the company go under having no idea why people have stopped buying their products"?

[OMEGAlomaniac]

I'm not clicking the link. But I'm going to assume this is yet another case of posting a sensationalist article for hits.

It's for that very reason I stopped going to IGN and Kotaku (among others)

[Hexley UK]

OMEGAlomaniac wrote...

I'm not clicking the link. But I'm going to assume this is yet another case of posting a sensationalist article for hits.

It's for that very reason I stopped going to IGN and Kotaku (among others)

Yea pretty much.

[Iwillbeback]

They copyrighted the English language.