108 réponses à ce sujet

[Hizoka003]

Ninjaphrog wrote...

SaveMeJeebus wrote...

Hi all,

Well I got this game recently done all six origins which don't give you much feel of building my characters, so of course I don't have time to try building loads of characters because I messed up so of course I did some research on these forums and what I found at upset me.

I found a thread where it says over powered talents (mainly mages) and under powered talents (warriors) then I see someone said 2h warriors are generally not worth playng as they dps is terrible.

So yeah I'm looking for reassures on these issues as I don't want to make a warrior that is terrible and don't want to make an overpowered mage that kills everything.

Here's how it goes down(I'm sure I'm widely agreed with in this)

Warrior

2 handed: On easy mode? Yes they can be powerful since you have a larger chance to hit...however...on higher difficulties, the hit/miss ratio is completely screwed up...even rogues tend to miss a bunch even with high Dex(My rogue which I just finished the game with had 60 dex in total, and still missed constantly). Generally though, the problem with 2 handed warrior is this: They need fairly high Dex in order to hit...they need fairly high Willpower to fund the high powered abilities...and in the meantime they need high strength to fuel the blows...so technically...you'll be alot weaker then the classes who only need 2 attributes focused on.

duel wield: Has a potential to be powerful, though if you do it wrong from the beginning you're doomed to fail misserably throughout the game(Trust me I did with my dwarf warrior lols). Although if you do it right, it can turn out to be the most powerful warrior there is...especially if mixed with Reaver! They do require high Dex however, but unlike 2handed they don't require high willpower.

Sworld & Buckler: Usefull if you're a tank, else? Weakest damage a warrior can do.


Mage: All around powerful. No specializations require different attribute focus since the first ability in Arcane warrior lets you use Magic instead of strength...so as Arcane Warrior there's a way to mess up...spend points in strength untill level 7 where you realize you just wasted a ton of points on a useless attribute. Blood Mage is all powerful in my opinion...fantastic Crowd Control, and the only charm spell in the game that can be used on anyone who has blood(So pretty much anything except golems). Arcane Warrior/Blood mage is widely known to be the most powerful mage available. Shapeshifter is fairly weak, due to the time it takes for you to cast the spell. Spirit Healer's pretty USEFUL, not powerful, since it's easy to slip up on Wynne. If you're the healer, you don't need wynne!!! Although due to their extreme damage, crowd control, area damage, and overall survivability, mages are thee most powerful class in the game, and the easiest to play.

Rogue:  My personal favorite. Assassin is incredibly powerful if you have feign death aswell. Get behind an enemy with a stun poison and you got automatic win...attack from the front you got auto fail, since assassin rogues are in their zone when looking at the enemy's back. A rogue who has Assassin/Duelist mix is known to be the most powerful. Bard is the weakest class, with nothing else but weak buffs and Crowd Controls. Ranger has a potential to be powerful if done right.


Warrior/Rogue archer: Archery is if not the weakest class in the game...Arrow of Slaying has the potential to get you the magic 250 damage number if you play your cards right, but all together, all the archer can do is stand in the background, shoot arrows and hope he hits. You don't get any special abilities, and pretty weak activated abilities.

again another ****** that thinks dex is the only way to increase hit... STR = HIT AND DAMAGE  so you are being typicaly stupid in thinking that a warrior that uses a 2h misses anymore then a DW... he doesn't you just happen to notice it more because of the slower swing speed... the ratio is EXACTLY the same when they both have the same amount of points divided between STR and DEX   a warrior with 30 dex and 30 str has the same hit as a warrior with 60 STR from raw stats

[Gliese]

Vaylor66 wrote...

First off, build a 2h with nothing but str. If you do that, you shouldn't have any issues with missing. My main has a 92% hit rate(Oghren and Sten are 72%/74% if you're curious). Dex is a waste. You'd have to put in about 50 points in dex to really start having any noticeable effect on the armor rating, at least on nightmare. You can take hits plenty fine just beefing up your armor rating. You can still get 40+ armor, which absorbs a ton of damage. Willpower just doesn't add enough to stamina to make it worthwhile. You get in a few more specials, but all your specials and normal attacks will hit for less(and you have a lower hit rate). And no need to go con on anything besides just a pure tank.

I find that 2h warriors do ok, but I'll never make one again. Oghren and Sten both are too screwed up stat wise to be worthwhile. And I think a dw rogue or any mage type is by far the best main to create. I find that 2h warriors are 20 second fighters. In that they're good for about the first 20 seconds of a battle, then they start to really lag. I've had a really easy time on some boss fights, because 3 2h warriors smashing into them for 100 damage a swing drops things very fast.

I've also had some really difficult fights, because once that 20 seconds is over, they become kinda useless. Also, Wynn runs out of mana fast trying to keep up haste and heals on them all. I've used way more pot's this run that all my others combined.

Perhaps your lack of stamina is the reason why you find them to be great in the first 20sec but bad afterwards? Just a thought.

Also three 2handers seems really suboptimal especially built with only strength
since that means you have nothing close to a tank in your party, I'm
not surprised that you needed alot of potions for that.

[JHorwath]

A 2h without proper care taken into using dexterity stats is very fragile. I should know I have a 2h warrior down the str path and one down a balanced path. The complete str build is more situational and needs to be with the proper party. Definitely hits harder and can make life easier but without the dex they go down fast.



The 2h with a more balanced build sacrifices some damage but when I put the two builds side by side there isn't that much of a difference. Even though I haven't been neglecting other stats just for str that doesn't mean my str isn't high. It's still the most important stat just don't neglect the others.



When I put the two builds side by side and compare encounters they go like this.



Ogre fight ostagar



balanced build best results - 2 health poltices no death



str build - no health poltices no death



random encounters and general play



balance build - 1 death on the wolves. No health poltices being used and morrigan as mage with no heal spell. The balance build can tank one on one foes effectively and with a three melee group consisting of two 2h warriors and alistair. Even when stamina runs out the balanced 2h can stay alive in combat and be effective.





str build - multiple party wipes, low tanking abilities. Deals a great amount of damage but has no defense. I found the complete str build to be less useful to a party when dealing with general gameplay. However, in a boss situation they seemed to excel. You get a trade off with all str- heavy damage- that truthfully was only a few points more than a balanced build. The party was morrigan alistair, sten, and pc. No heals no health poltices.



From playing both sides of the field and not ranting like some rabbid lunatic I found the str build to be less fun, less effective in the overall gameplay, and less durable. Good against boss encounters and ogres though.



The Balanced build was fun. I liked being able to tank and effectively deal damage. Great in party gameplay mechanics and can function as a very durable off tank. Takes a slight reduction in damage but if you pay attention to your stat points the character becomes much more well rounded.



*So that's that. This wasn't oh I want these stats to be good or I like this so it's good. I played both ends of the spectrum and found the balanced build to be better. Not that the str build was bad, even better in certain situations, but there are some downfalls.

[KylonOrina]

I started a 2h warrior recently. What equipment should I try to get him for endgame?

[Gliese]

JHorwath: I'm sure you got some valuable insights for the early game there but what about a little later on when there's better armour available and you can use disengage on your 2hander at the same time as you use taunt on your tank?

[sinosleep]

Wow, I can't believe how much I disagree with a lot of what's been posted in this thread. Having started over about a million times, and going through my first complete playthrough with a 2 handed weapon wielding warrior I've come to these conclusions. Practically every sustainable is a waste of time on 2 hander dps warrior. Indomitable isn't necessary because your tank should be immune to and taking all the knockdown hits himself and powerful blows seems to make very little difference in damage while at the same time making your hit rate garbage.

I've learned that massive armor is also a waste of time. With my 2 hander PC I wore massive armor and then wondered why my stamina was garbage and I could only get two or three talents off before it was completely drained. On my latest playthrough, having far better grasp of the combat system I played as a sword and board warrior PC and had Sten in the party for the entirety of the game. Sten wore medium armor for the vast majority and is currently wearing heavy armor only because it's one that provides bonuses to will. Not only does it hurt you in the stamina department, but the mobs in the game target characters based on armor rating off the bat. Massive armor will only put your nontanking dps warrior in a tanking situation that much more often. So with Sten, not only do I get off an easy 7 or 8 special moves before running out of stamina, but he's never forced to tank any way, my pc holds and handles aggro just fine while Sten lays the smack down.

There's nothing wrong with 2 hander warriors, it's just that first insticts (all of which I used on my first playthrough) don't mesh with what's actually best for the class. Lighter armor and more talents is FAR superior to massive armor and sustainables.

Modifié par sinosleep, 04 décembre 2009 - 08:28 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

2H work fine as long as you don't expect them to be a traditional tank. Dex is a waste of points because 2H should be spending their time knocking enemies down and doing massive damage, not dodging their blows.

Powerful Blows adds 5 points of damage to every hit, while imposing a 10 point attack penalty. You can reduce that penalty to 5 by taking the next talent in the line.

Precise Striking is really nice for 2Hers. Your attack speed is already terrible, and you shouldn't spend much time auto-attacking anyway, so take it for the attack bonus to cancel out the Powerful Blows penalty.

Oghren was my primary tank in the Deep Roads (freeing up Shale) and it worked great. Indomitable also made Oghren immune to the Stun effects from Shale's Earthquake, so combined with a single Heal the two of them could stand close together and lay waste to the darkspawn.

[Kalem40]

I've played dual wield and 2 hander, and I prefer the 2 hander. I love pommel strike, and the aoe knock down you get in the 2 hand skill tree really comes in handy. If you specialize as a champion, you then have two aoe knock downs, which goes a long way towards keeping the party alive.

[Mavkiel]

On hard difficulty I found 2 handed weapons to be o.k.. This is assuming you build the character and not let the computer do it. You want really high str, and talents that let you do ae damage and avoid knockdowns. The companions the computer builds tend to not go for really high str, and pick lousy talents(imo). If you have the wardens keep dlc, going for a star metal 2hander is a good idea. I have found that good one handers are easy to get, finding great 2 handed weapons is a wee bit more difficult.



Also, enchantment slots on 2handed weapons I am far more picky about. Using damage runes is a waste, as they swing slow. However, having spell resist runes is always nice. My warrior had about 50% spell resist with just a necklace and a couple runes.

[sinosleep]

Oh and another thing, go down the sunder armor tree 1st. All the activated talents in that tree swing twice while using less stamina than the one and done talents. So sure, while my critical strike might hit for 90 in one blow, I regularly hit for 50 on the first hit of sunder armor, only to crit for 80+ on the 2nd hit any way doing 130 damage for less stamina and in almost the same amount time while also lowering the targets armor rating. The passives in that line of talents are great too. Destroyer sunders armor with every hit while shattering blows takes down golemns and such like nobody's business.



It's another one of those first instinct things. Critical strike and mighty blow would seem like the go to talents for damage, but with a better understanding of game mechanics it turns out that the "support talents" are actually more effective.

[JHorwath]

Gliese wrote...

JHorwath: I'm sure you got some valuable insights for the early game there but what about a little later on when there's better armour available and you can use disengage on your 2hander at the same time as you use taunt on your tank?

I'll compare both builds at that point as well, O_o.    By the way, I have completed the game already having Sten in my party.  At end game he was so much fun that's why I'm rolling my own 2h warrior. 

Modifié par JHorwath, 04 décembre 2009 - 08:58 .

[gods999]

Two Handed Warriors are good only thing I don't like is the sword form but thats not a major issue.

[limpan21]

With a 2h build you rely on alot of other party members providing buffs for you to optimize your damage, also a as precise striking only adds 0.1 to your swing timer its definetly worth using (as it doubles your crit chance which means you will be sitting at around 30%++ crit) the biggest problem with the 2h build is the lack of + crit damage gear, theres only really 2 items you can get and both of them are dlc items (warden commander breastplate + wicked ring) those 2 items add up to + 25% crit damage increase which will be quit alot at the endgame (as much as 30-50 more damage / crit) , the absolutely biggest pro of the 2h spec is the indomitable buff though especially on the higher difficulties (nightmare), if you play vanilla/casual mode you will kill everything so fast it doesnt matter what you spec and the mobs have so low armor ratings that you dont need sunder armor etc, however when you crank up the difficulty and the bosses start to get 50+ armor you will notice the difference , for max umph you need a cunning focused liliana, bloodthirst+rage+reaver, with those on you are king burst dps build (well a archer will outdps anyone on 1 mob / 60 secs but im choosing to ignore that heh)

[Timortis]

I'm soloing on Nightmare with a 2H Warrior right now. The damage is pretty good when you hit, but defensively they're very weak. The reason I say "when you hit" is that the defensive weakness also factors in this area. Because you get hit more often, when you're surrounded there's always multiple debuffs on you, like Below the Belt, Cripple, Defensive Fire etc, and these stack, so your attack takes a pretty big hit. And since a lot of your damage comes from big slow specials, when these miss, you really feel it. Misdirection Hex is like a death sentence.



With support, in a group, a lot of this is rectified. You get buffs, you get heals so getting hit is not such a big deal.

[Timortis]

sinosleep wrote...

It's another one of those first instinct things. Critical strike and mighty blow would seem like the go to talents for damage, but with a better understanding of game mechanics it turns out that the "support talents" are actually more effective.

Stunning blows seems to proc more often with Mighty Blow and Critical Strike though, which can be very useful. I don't know what the deal is, maybe you have a higher chance to stun on big hits or crits, but it's definitely the case.

[DodgeMoreLightning]

2H isn't that bad, but it's not good. The problem is, people are frontloading their special attacks. This is an error. With Final Blow (or whatever it's called), you gain stamina back when you kill an enemy, and you have good ways to ensure you get the killing blow. Actually, four of them in Critical Strike, Mighty Blow, Sunder Armor, and Sunder Arms. You will be able to hit Sunder _____, Critical Strike, and Mighty Blow every CD if you make sure you auto attack or focus fire the enemy into killing range, then use an ability to finish it.

Strength + Dex works best for this method as you will need to be able to avoid a hit while you work their HP down to near-dead in a swing or two, and you don't want to spend your points on much else because you can't afford to have your attack rating dip.

Use the ability of your choice right after you connect with an auto-swing for maximum effect.

Modifié par DodgeMoreLightning, 10 décembre 2009 - 08:36 .

[Gecon]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

you have to give you 2H warriors some dexterity or they are not going to hit anything and take a lot of damage. A straight strength/ constitution build gimps them.

When will this stupid rumor ever die ?

Weapon Attack: 1/2 Str + 1/2 Dex

So it doesnt matter if you pump Str or Dex, you always get exactly the same result.

For twohander, you have to pump Str because it gives damage.

They are never going to have much of a defense though.

[castaftw]

My experience with 2 handed warrior is good. I completed nightmare with my main char as a 2-handed tank and in my experience indominable which gives you immune to stun and knockdown is insanely good. Get 2 handed sweep and spec champion for warcry knockdown, this way a large force of enemies will lie more on the floor than actually hitting you. I would go for a little more stamina to critical hit and mighty blow mages while still spamming 2-handed sweep and warcry all the time, I think my dex was 18 when the game ended, it is not really a priority, so focus on str, will and con.

Compared to a shield tank, his weakness is backstabs and generally being flanked. But a shield tanks weakness is stun, this problem the 2-handed tank dont have.

As for high dps, nothing beats a high cunning rouge single target or a mage aoe, warrior is for tank whatever spec imo.

Modifié par castaftw, 10 décembre 2009 - 08:53 .

[xka]

I have finished game with my caracter with 2 handed weapons. Lets see:

- I think itsnt very good in general terms-
- I gave points to strengh, willpower and constitution.
- You cant wear shield, so, you need more dex to avoid strikes, or more heavy armor. If you get heavy armor, you will need more willpower to use habilities.
- Damage ratio is not so high when you compare a 2 handed weapon with a one handed weapon.
- 1 handed weapon has more speed and DPS is similar  and with one handed weapon, you have shield.

The other tank in my team was Alistair, and i think it was so, or more effective than my main character. If i begin again the game with a warrior, i will not get 2 handed weapons.

[Asugai2]

Gecon wrote...

TanithAeyrs wrote...

you have to give you 2H warriors some dexterity or they are not going to hit anything and take a lot of damage. A straight strength/ constitution build gimps them.

When will this stupid rumor ever die ?

Weapon Attack: 1/2 Str + 1/2 Dex

So it doesnt matter if you pump Str or Dex, you always get exactly the same result.

For twohander, you have to pump Str because it gives damage.

They are never going to have much of a defense though.

What he said. Don't touch dex.

[JJM152]

Does anyone know of any good freeware program that lets you capture video from the game? I know of FRAPS, but it costs money...



Basically I need to take some videos of me playing my 2h warrior. Currently I'm at 95% hit rate and 55% of party damage done. The 2h spec can be good if you build/play correctly. I wrote a thread on it on these boards... I think it's fallen a few pages though.

[OneBadAssMother]

You need a STR build for a 2hander, as for stamina (as your offensive talents MUST be used for a 2hander to be of any use), sure, a few minor points here and there is cool but it is imperative you get the deathblow talent for stamina and equip willpower items instead.



My first character was a 2hander but he sucked, but my wife's 2hander totally kicked butt however, and she taught me how to use one - I had no idea the sunder arms/armor talent was 2 hits instead of one with low cooldowns/stamina cost for example - MUCH better then mighty blow/critical strike in terms of damage, the latter two only to stun or to fill in the gaps during sunder cooldowns. Whether a 2hander is good or bad is whether you know how to play them right you see.



When a 2hander reaches 60+ STR, with specialisations in berserker/champion, you can expect a warrior that is much more powerful then a sword/board one. I'm playing one now according to my wife's build and very pleased with it compared to my sword/board warrior (Overpower and Assault are simply too low DPS compared to a 2hander, and 37% party contribution is just not heroic enough, 72% of party damage however - that's what I prefer).



Yes a 2hander can get hit often, but you can balance this out with high armor, and never having to worry about getting stunned or knocked down, and CC such as two-handed sweep and warcry + superiority. In the end you won't be surrounded for long - you'll be doing enough damage anyway.



Also, if you find your tank overwhelmed and surrounded, just run up right next to him and 2handed sweep his opponents, this pretty much takes off 50% at least of all enemies surrounding him. Always look for opportunities to do the max damage. A DW rogue can do more DPS against a single target sure, but it always has to be from the flanks, and there is no immunity to stun or knockdown. I reckon 2handers are well balanced in the game myself.

[Evilsod]

Timortis wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

It's another one of those first instinct things. Critical strike and mighty blow would seem like the go to talents for damage, but with a better understanding of game mechanics it turns out that the "support talents" are actually more effective.

Stunning blows seems to proc more often with Mighty Blow and Critical Strike though, which can be very useful. I don't know what the deal is, maybe you have a higher chance to stun on big hits or crits, but it's definitely the case.

I've noticed that. My normal attacks barely seem to do it, but Mighty/Critical seem to stun frequently.

[OneBadAssMother]

Normal attacks are useless with 2handers.