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LI Tension: A Missed Opportunity


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#26
TJX2045

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DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

THIS
ISN'T
A
DATING
SIM

No one ever said it was. It's a game that has character depth and optional romance/intimacy. Besides, in the other games, they have had character confrontations before. This is like someone going to a thread where people are complaining about the combat system in this game and saying "THIS ISN'T A SHOOTER." I think everyone in this thread is smart enough to know that it isn't, but it has elements of both.

Modifié par TJX2045, 01 avril 2012 - 07:21 .


#27
CptData

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TJX2045 wrote...

 

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

THIS
ISN'T
A
DATING
SIM

No one ever said it was. It's a game that has character depth and optional romance/intimacy. Besides, in the other games, they have had character confrontations before. This is like someone going to a thread where people are complaining about the combat system in this game and saying "THIS ISN'T A SHOOTER." I think everyone in this thread is smart enough to know that it isn't, but it has elements of both.


True.

I think I wrote it once: BW created a darn fine trilogy and - and that's rare - one that's more character driven than anything else. BW tried so hard to create believeable, authentic characters, although with mixed results, the player cares for them. I never wanted to see Mordin die, but I was proud when he sacrificed himself to give the Krogans a second chance. Same for Thane - although facing certain death, he still was able to deal with Kai Leng for a while.

To get the player invested in such characters, they need flaws, a background, some conflicts and so on. The player needs to connect to a character, feel emotions, see them as real persons (at least as real as it's possible with a fictional character). Book authors did it for centuries - and game writers learn to do it now.

The -EASIEST- way, to get a player invested in a character is to make them feeling like friends and lovers. That works perfectly for Garrus and Vega for example. Liara always feels more like a lover than a friend, even if not being the LI in the current playthrough. 
Reducing said romances or friendships to few lines of dialogue without any way to interact with a certain character outside the missions for an extend period of time damages the character and reduces emotional investment of the player into that character.
In best case the player accepts it.
In worst case the player feels betrayed, since his/her investment didn't pay out.

That's currently happening with ME2!LIs and VS romances as well, since they got significantly less content than the trilogy's primary romance: Liara. Some of them (Thane, Jacob) got such bad treatment, their romance is no longer enjoyable if replaying the trilogy. Any investment in those characters won't pay out ever.

The trilogy is no dating sim, true.
However, it's comes with a character driven story. Most players I know play the game not just because of the story - they also want to see the fates of the characters in said story as well. And a lot of those guys want to see a happy Shepard and a happy LI in the end.

Modifié par CptData, 01 avril 2012 - 08:42 .


#28
TJX2045

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You know what I miss? Being able to talk to the characters whenever you wanted just to be able to talk to them. Without them just one lining you and actually being able to re-choose the investigate dialogue options. Some characters were just so cool I wanted to have dialogue with them again. Now they turned the dialogue style into DAII. *sigh*

#29
RedTail F22

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CptData wrote...

TJX2045 wrote...

 

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

THIS
ISN'T
A
DATING
SIM

No one ever said it was. It's a game that has character depth and optional romance/intimacy. Besides, in the other games, they have had character confrontations before. This is like someone going to a thread where people are complaining about the combat system in this game and saying "THIS ISN'T A SHOOTER." I think everyone in this thread is smart enough to know that it isn't, but it has elements of both.


True.

I think I wrote it once: BW created a darn fine trilogy and - and that's rare - one that's more character driven than anything else. BW tried so hard to create believeable, authentic characters, although with mixed results, the player cares for them. I never wanted to see Mordin die, but I was proud when he sacrificed himself to give the Krogans a second chance. Same for Thane - although facing certain death, he still was able to deal with Kai Leng for a while.

To get the player invested in such characters, they need flaws, a background, some conflicts and so on. The player needs to connect to a character, feel emotions, see them as real persons (at least as real as it's possible with a fictional character). Book authors did it for centuries - and game writers learn to do it now.

The -EASIEST- way, to get a player invested in a character is to make them feeling like friends and lovers. That works perfectly for Garrus and Vega for example. Liara always feels more like a lover than a friend, even if not being the LI in the current playthrough. 
Reducing said romances or friendships to few lines of dialogue without any way to interact with a certain character outside the missions for an extend period of time damages the character and reduces emotional investment of the player into that character.
In best case the player accepts it.
In worst case the player feels betrayed, since his/her investment didn't pay out.

That's currently happening with ME2!LIs and VS romances as well, since they got significantly less content than the trilogy's primary romance: Liara. Some of them (Thane, Jacob) got such bad treatment, their romance is no longer enjoyable if replaying the trilogy. Any investment in those characters won't pay out ever.

The trilogy is no dating sim, true.
However, it's comes with a character driven story. Most players I know play the game not just because of the story - they also want to see the fates of the characters in said story as well. And a lot of those guys want to see a happy Shepard and a happy LI in the end.


Very very true. Couldnt have said it better myself.

#30
CptData

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TJX2045 wrote...

You know what I miss? Being able to talk to the characters whenever you wanted just to be able to talk to them. Without them just one lining you and actually being able to re-choose the investigate dialogue options. Some characters were just so cool I wanted to have dialogue with them again. Now they turned the dialogue style into DAII. *sigh*


Like in ME1? Where you can have 'em with you and click @ them they'll say at least 2 or 3 different lines about the current situation?
Definitely. I'd go that far and say, that's one of the features I missed in ME2 and ME3. In ME2 you still had the "points of interest", in ME3 even those are missing.

I don't mind the Zaeed dialogues that much - if they wouldn't replace any real dialogue. However, they do. And that's a huge mistake in my eyes. :mellow: