191 réponses à ce sujet

[Sohlito]

ImmovableMover wrote...

Luzarius wrote...

Bioware should never cater to those who skip dialogue and don't read codex.

This "retake ME3" crowd should be thankful bioware gave them action mode and leave it at that.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

Still not figured out how signatures work?

Also, That has got to be the worst troll I've ever seen. I'm almost embarassed for you.

I was actually waiting for someone to say that. lol

[Vhalkyrie]

pikey1969 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

This same situation happened with DA2. They cancelled the expansion pack development due to lack of interest. Saying this backlash won't hurt them is a gamble.

Is it worth dealing with YET another PR storm just so they can sell more DLC? Nevermind the more important fact that the development team themselves CLEARLY are not enthused or interested in tackling such a project? Do you REALLY think the ending they were forced to make out of circumstance would turn out to be a quality ending that the Retake movement has been 'fighting' for?

Cancelling the expansion pack might have meant loss in potential profits from the DLC for DA2, but all Bioware had to do instead was reallocate that team back to DA3, it's hardly an example of 'death/downfall of Bioware' that everyone is claiming not doing a new ending will result in. If anything, it could very well be signs of Bioware putting more manpower/time into DA3 instead, and trying to avoid yet another scenerio of rushed/half-baked ending.

DAO had an expansion pack that sold very well, and introduced a very popular new character: Anders.  Who they promptly performed a character assassination on in DA2.  Canceling the xpack is an example that DA2 was unpopular enough that they reallocated resources.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 31 mars 2012 - 01:51 .

[Aesieru]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

pikey1969 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

This same situation happened with DA2. They cancelled the expansion pack development due to lack of interest. Saying this backlash won't hurt them is a gamble.

Is it worth dealing with YET another PR storm just so they can sell more DLC? Nevermind the more important fact that the development team themselves CLEARLY are not enthused or interested in tackling such a project? Do you REALLY think the ending they were forced to make out of circumstance would turn out to be a quality ending that the Retake movement has been 'fighting' for?

Cancelling the expansion pack might have meant loss in potential profits from the DLC for DA2, but all Bioware had to do instead was reallocate that team back to DA3, it's hardly an example of 'death/downfall of Bioware' that everyone is claiming not doing a new ending will result in. If anything, it could very well be signs of Bioware putting more manpower/time into DA3 instead, and trying to avoid yet another scenerio of rushed/half-baked ending.

DAO had an expansion pack that sold very well, and introduced a very popular new character: Anders.  Who they promptly performed a character assassination on in DA2.

DA2 killed the entire series as far as I'm concerned, I have no desire to re-enter that world now.

[Quietness]

ImmovableMover wrote...

Quietness wrote...

https://www.facebook...44005192318904/  is all i have to say its flawed logic because everyone is stating that ONLY those people hate the ending ^^ 

Where? I haven't read through this thread.

Not saying this thread, just in general. The 50k number was a random odd number that was used by a lot of the media/press (at the same time they kept using the phrase Vocal Minority) to state that, thats all the people who hate the ending. They implied (and in many cases outright claimed) that anyone who didnt voice their opinon agreed that the ending was amazing.

Its an arbitrary number that is constantly used to downplay the amount of people that are upset (Also it just takes into considering the english page)

Edit and i state random and odd as it just uses the english page, it ignore any other pages.

Modifié par Quietness, 31 mars 2012 - 01:58 .

[Vhalkyrie]

Aesieru wrote...

DA2 killed the entire series as far as I'm concerned, I have no desire to re-enter that world now.

Agreed.  DA2 had other problems that killed the series for me.  I did not like the arcade popping ninjas.  I hated not being able to sneak up on enemies and plan my tactics, even as a thief.  What the heck?

I have no enthusiasm for DA3.  They will have to work a lot harder to get me to consider it.

Modifié par Vhalkyrie, 31 mars 2012 - 01:53 .

[Quietness]

ImmovableMover wrote...

Luzarius wrote...

Bioware should never cater to those who skip dialogue and don't read codex.

This "retake ME3" crowd should be thankful bioware gave them action mode and leave it at that.

Luzarius
-SNIP THE LINK LAWL-
"no death ruleset"

Still not figured out how signatures work?

Also, That has got to be the worst troll I've ever seen. I'm almost embarassed for you.

He posts really controversial things and than always leaves links to his twitch page, yea thats not baiting for clicks... 

[Kanon777]

Luzarius wrote...

Bioware should never cater to those who skip dialogue and don't read codex.

This "retake ME3" crowd should be thankful bioware gave them action mode and leave it at that.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

[Aesieru]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

DA2 killed the entire series as far as I'm concerned, I have no desire to re-enter that world now.

Agreed.  DA2 had other problems that killed the series for me.  I did not like the arcade popping ninjas.  I hated not being able to sneak up on enemies and plan my tactics, even as a thief.  What the heck?

I have no enthusiasm for DA3.  They will have to work a lot harder to get me to consider it.

I hated huge health bars, very bland magical trees, the combo-style combat because it was not the type of way I had played in DA-1, a lot of the story, and the terrible boss battles and repetitive environments. The DLC was terrible because it still had those same issues.

[Shallyah]

Bioware can't risk that 60,000 unhappy people stop buying their games, and more importantly, that they spread every ill comment they can over everyone they know.

This isn't a silly threat or anything. I myself will probably keep buying Bioware's products as I see fit, but all my friends consider me the "expert" in RPGs, as I am the most invested, the one who cares to log in here to comment, research, and spend time in some game's forums instead of playing another game or just enjoying a sunny afternoon.

If my feedback about the game or the company is really negative, my friends will either not buy the game, or think very carefully before buying it. Perhaps they'll just leave it as a very last option, if they really have nothing else to do or to play.

That is what really will hurt Bioware/EA out of this situation. Nowadays it's even worse, due to social networks. They can't afford to earn a bad name. Because yeah, 50,000-60,000 is not much (it's still some 4+ million dollars, mind you), but the worst of it is the amount of people who will not preorder or buy the game based on the feedback from these 50,000-60,000 vocal fans. It's not like those that aren't vocal aren't sad about spending their money for a game that wasn't what was promised. I don't know about your country, but in mine money doesn't grow on trees, it's hard earned, and there is an economical crisis going on. And it only takes a little push to convince someone to not make the mistake of misspending it again.

Modifié par Shallyah, 31 mars 2012 - 02:07 .

[ImmovableMover]

Quietness wrote...

ImmovableMover wrote...

Quietness wrote...

https://www.facebook...44005192318904/  is all i have to say its flawed logic because everyone is stating that ONLY those people hate the ending ^^ 

Where? I haven't read through this thread.

Not saying this thread, just in general. The 50k number was a random odd number that was used by a lot of the media/press (at the same time they kept using the phrase Vocal Minority) to state that, thats all the people who hate the ending. They implied (and in many cases outright claimed) that anyone who didnt voice their opinon agreed that the ending was amazing.

Its an arbitrary number that is constantly used to downplay the amount of people that are upset (Also it just takes into considering the english page)

Even if it is used to downplay the "Significance" of the people who dislike the ending, even as a "50,000 is just a tiny minority compared to the millions that love the ending to bits" statement, even if it's just a conservative number, losing 50,000 people from your fanbase will strongly impact the bottom line.

Like I said, 50,000 people equates to $3 million lost...and thats discounting collectors editions, DLC, special editions, merchandise and good word of mouth.

My post, and these numbers, are to demonstrate that pleasing the "Hardcore fans" of a AAA game is not something you (not you specifically) can dismiss and go "Meh, who needs them?" to. They can have a MASSIVE impact if they follow through.

[Quietness]

ImmovableMover wrote...

Quietness wrote...

ImmovableMover wrote...

Quietness wrote...

https://www.facebook...44005192318904/  is all i have to say its flawed logic because everyone is stating that ONLY those people hate the ending ^^ 

Where? I haven't read through this thread.

Not saying this thread, just in general. The 50k number was a random odd number that was used by a lot of the media/press (at the same time they kept using the phrase Vocal Minority) to state that, thats all the people who hate the ending. They implied (and in many cases outright claimed) that anyone who didnt voice their opinon agreed that the ending was amazing.

Its an arbitrary number that is constantly used to downplay the amount of people that are upset (Also it just takes into considering the english page)

Even if it is used to downplay the "Significance" of the people who dislike the ending, even as a "50,000 is just a tiny minority compared to the millions that love the ending to bits" statement, even if it's just a conservative number, losing 50,000 people from your fanbase will strongly impact the bottom line.

Like I said, 50,000 people equates to $3 million lost...and thats discounting collectors editions, DLC, special editions, merchandise and good word of mouth.

My post, and these numbers, are to demonstrate that pleasing the "Hardcore fans" of a AAA game is not something you (not you specifically) can dismiss and go "Meh, who needs them?" to. They can have a MASSIVE impact if they follow through.

We're on the same side of the spectrum merely locked in semantics xP

[Austin N]

Hey, I'm curious about something. People often mention TOR when they talk about how Bioware has degraded in the last few years. Now, I know why DA2 was so controversial, but what's the problem with TOR? I've heard about a patch that screwed things up, but other then that I don't know why people are disappointd with it.

[pikey1969]

ImmovableMover wrote...

Luzarius wrote...

Bioware should never cater to those who skip dialogue and don't read codex.

This "retake ME3" crowd should be thankful bioware gave them action mode and leave it at that.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

Still not figured out how signatures work?

Also, That has got to be the worst troll I've ever seen. I'm almost embarassed for you.

Yea, that guy is equally as embarrassing to see as the guy who filed a complaint to the FTC. 

Modifié par pikey1969, 31 mars 2012 - 02:06 .

[Quietness]

Austin N wrote...

Hey, I'm curious about something. People often mention TOR when they talk about how Bioware has degraded in the last few years. Now, I know why DA2 was so controversial, but what's the problem with TOR? I've heard about a patch that screwed things up, but other then that I don't know why people are disappointd with it.

Ive heard problems from wow clone to some dissapointing story lines/endings to some combat log bug? that was around for a bit. 

I think people were expecting a lot more essentially that was gotten in the end. Merely speculation, just complaints ive heard in regards to ToR

[Aesieru]

Austin N wrote...

Hey, I'm curious about something. People often mention TOR when they talk about how Bioware has degraded in the last few years. Now, I know why DA2 was so controversial, but what's the problem with TOR? I've heard about a patch that screwed things up, but other then that I don't know why people are disappointd with it.

TOR isn't as we were promised, it has 1.9 million subscribers in total the last time I checked, but it is losing many that bought it based on what we were promised.

The story focus and cinematic quality is far less than we were led to believe, the newest content patch known as 1.2 adds features rather than additional story content or fixing the many issues in the game. The armor and equipment designs are mostly terrible. PVP is becoming far more important to them than the actual story, and worse... the flashpoints really degrade after the first one, and aren't what we were promised.

[Aesieru]

pikey1969 wrote...

ImmovableMover wrote...

Luzarius wrote...

Bioware should never cater to those who skip dialogue and don't read codex.

This "retake ME3" crowd should be thankful bioware gave them action mode and leave it at that.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

Still not figured out how signatures work?

Also, That has got to be the worst troll I've ever seen. I'm almost embarassed for you.

Yea, that guy is equally as embarrassing to see as the guy who filed a complaint to the FTC. 

The FTC is designed to take complaints, else it has no purpose. Filing one is fulfilling its purpose, and not bad.

[pikey1969]

Aesieru wrote...

pikey1969 wrote...

ImmovableMover wrote...

Luzarius wrote...

Bioware should never cater to those who skip dialogue and don't read codex.

This "retake ME3" crowd should be thankful bioware gave them action mode and leave it at that.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

Still not figured out how signatures work?

Also, That has got to be the worst troll I've ever seen. I'm almost embarassed for you.

Yea, that guy is equally as embarrassing to see as the guy who filed a complaint to the FTC. 

The FTC is designed to take complaints, else it has no purpose. Filing one is fulfilling its purpose, and not bad.

Same school of thought that made a careless woman win millions of dollars for spilling coffee on her lap.

[Archer]

Austin N wrote...

Hey, I'm curious about something. People often mention TOR when they talk about how Bioware has degraded in the last few years. Now, I know why DA2 was so controversial, but what's the problem with TOR? I've heard about a patch that screwed things up, but other then that I don't know why people are disappointd with it.

I think its mentioned because of the hype. Pre release TOR was presented as a really inovative entry to the MMO market. Something that hadnt been done before.

Now dont get me wrong personaly i enjoy TOR but its not inovative in the slightest. Its a total and utter rip of WOW gameplay with a star wars skin and Bioware voice actors. Thats it.

[-Area51-Silent]

Lets break out the numbers for a projection. Lets state that the vocals represent only part of the disenfranchised "core" fans, and those who are not vocal simply look at this as perhaps a reason to be more skeptical (like myself) about future Bioware games. So now we state that the vocal voice conerns that resonate with those who have not voiced their statements, and without some sort of action, both the vocal and non-vocal will be turned off to future bioware games, because they will expect products of a similar callibur.

So, looking at this from Biowares prospective, we state that Bioware knows they have core fans, and those core fans are "probable" sales, probable in accounting terms means highly likely and is the highest level of assumption (reasonable probable and remote are the other two). So with that number based on past experience, they can make projections of sales, set incentives etc... By reducing that number of probable sales to "reasonable probable" sales they are looking at taking on more risk, which essentially will reduce incentives, and more than likely affect the budgets set up due to that higher level of uncertainty. This will also effect them reaching out to those in the "remote" area which are those who they look to try and bring into the series..thus losing their "probable" sales hurts their business model over all :-)

[Torrible]

I love how people assert that the 50k people who voted in the polls are all disgruntled hardcore gamers who can be easily rallied to dump Bioware.


Many of them may have disliked the ending but still are pleased with Bioware or ME3

Many of them might have considered the possibility of getting a free ending DLC. They might think "Bioware panic = free dlc".

Some of them might have been recruited by Retakers to rig the results; they may not even be gamers.

Many of them would not let one disappointment affect their future decisions.

Many of them are disgruntled yes, but just like disgruntled Starwars fans post TPM, they will keep coming back. Some won't be able to keep away from the drama.

Modifié par Torrible, 31 mars 2012 - 02:20 .

[RenownedRyan]

Mad-Hamlet wrote...



If OP starts handing out fish and bread we can call it Sermon on the Mount Part 2.

Friends, Romans, Countrymen lend me your ears!  I come to bury hardcore fans, not to praise them.

[Fapmaster5000]

Not sure if this got mentioned yet, but there's a big point you're missing about the "CoD is huge and it doesn't care about it's hardcore fans". Yes, yes it does. The core of CoD is it's tight gameplay, namely it's gunplay. The series has become known for cinematic campaigns, sure, but the heart of the series is, at this point, rooted in visceral, responsive gunplay with multiple options in a multiplayer environment.

Bioware's core selling point is it's storytelling.

Bioware failing at storytelling would be like CoD failing at producing tight, responsive shooting. If CoD came to market with a loose, wimpy shooter, that did not reward reaction times, did not provide firepower diversity, and did not feel visceral, it would go down in flames. The core CoD player sticks around through a lot of crap to get the CoD unique selling point: great gunplay.

The core Bioware player sticks around through a lot of crap to get the Bioware unique selling point: great storytelling.

Yes, ME3 has the best gameplay yet, in my opinion. Multiplayer is fun. But this is not CoD levels of tight controls and investment/reward to justify standing on its own without the unique selling point of "great storytelling". To be blunt: ME3, without it's story/characters, is fun, but not fun enough to win over the shooter crowd.

If their gamble was to ditch the RPG circuit and break into the shooter market (and I don't believe it was), then this game was simply insufficient to do so, and can be broken apart on clumsy (comparatively) controls, imbalanced weapons/gameplay, and an insufficiently deep multiplayer system. The lack of this angle of attack should demonstrate that: 1. Bioware fans feel this is secondary to the story concerns. 2. Shooter fans weren't impressed enough to invest in this game AS A SHOOTER, not as an RPG with good gameplay.

Thank you. You may now return to your regularly scheduled "being wrong".

[ImmovableMover]

Quietness wrote...


We're on the same side of the spectrum merely locked in semantics xP

Ah, excellent The internet isn't the best way to communicate sometimes!

[Aesieru]

pikey1969 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

pikey1969 wrote...

ImmovableMover wrote...

Luzarius wrote...

Bioware should never cater to those who skip dialogue and don't read codex.

This "retake ME3" crowd should be thankful bioware gave them action mode and leave it at that.

Luzarius
www.twitch.tv/luzarius
"no death ruleset"

Still not figured out how signatures work?

Also, That has got to be the worst troll I've ever seen. I'm almost embarassed for you.

Yea, that guy is equally as embarrassing to see as the guy who filed a complaint to the FTC. 

The FTC is designed to take complaints, else it has no purpose. Filing one is fulfilling its purpose, and not bad.

Same school of thought that made a careless woman win millions of dollars for spilling coffee on her lap.

Why don't you actually read up on what actually happened rather than making gross assumptions and misinterpretations?

The coffee was ridiculously and illogically hot beyond what coffee should be, and a lot more went into that than happened.

Also, THE FTC IS DESIGNED TO TAKE MISADVERTISEMENT COMPLAINTS AS MUCH AS ANYTHING ELSE, and this was SERIOUS misadvertisement, when the FTC files a lawsuit cluster for it, we'll see just how much.

[-Area51-Silent]

Torrible wrote...

I love how people assert that the 50k people who voted in the polls are all disgruntled hardcore gamers who can be easily rallied to dump Bioware.


Many of them may have disliked the ending but still are pleased with Bioware or ME3

Many of them might have considered the possibility of getting a free ending DLC. They might think "Bioware panic = free dlc".

Some of them may have been recruited by Retakers to rig the results; they may not even be gamers.

Many of them won't let one disappointment affect their future decisions.

Many of them will be disgruntled yes, but just like disgruntled Starwars fans post TPM, they will keep coming back. Some won't be able to keep away from the drama.

No one is saying they won't come back, but many will wait for a review from users. Meaning those "pre-order" sales will tank, creating more uncertainty of sales. More or less, this won't happen again, people will buy their games as long as they hear/see good things from users they know/trust and get the ins and outs. Blind trust will more than likely go away. So in essence, you are correct, but that means if their next game (say Mass Effect 4) comes out and it has somthings that people deem as terrible, many of those "pre-order" folks who would have just bought it without reading anything about it, will probably not buy it, and wait for used/price dropped copies before they invest in the product thus reducing/eliminating sales that the publisher/developers would have gotten..its all about business and business is all about money, when you cut corners you lose customers.