191 réponses à ce sujet

[glacier1701]

Austin N wrote...

Hey, I'm curious about something. People often mention TOR when they talk about how Bioware has degraded in the last few years. Now, I know why DA2 was so controversial, but what's the problem with TOR? I've heard about a patch that screwed things up, but other then that I don't know why people are disappointd with it.

 Well for a game with a 'level' limit it had almost NO high level content and what was there was buggy and open to exploits. Months later and still a lot of bugs in the high level content are  not fixed, the content is basically do this same thing EVERY day and so on and so on. In short they put so much work into getting to the high level they had few resources devoted to developing high level content and even then have still not put much effort into adding high level content. As important there are certain things that should now be standard features for any MMO such as support for guilds (clans or whatever), role players, solo players and so on yet there was minimal stuff there and ONLY now almost 5 months on are some extras finally trickling in. 

 The bad thing is that supposedly they have people from OUTSIDE of BioWare who have MMO experience and who should have been able to point out issues but it seems as voicing the game was the single thing they thought would sell the game (apart from it being Star Wars) and did nothing else.

 Anyways all of the point - we are SIGNIFICANT to BioWare - market research shows any company the importance of customers. This is NOT something new (apart from how quickly the customer grouped up to voice concerns) and the effects of not solving the problem is well known. You can be sure the market research people of EA and the bean counters are looking at the numbers and trying to estimate the impact on sales. The fact that there ARE responses (even if only PR at the moment) suggests that internally they are scared that they might be forced into a situation of having to abandon any/all plans for anything ME related when they were counting on that money. And what of the EA shareholders? I doubt that they'll sit still if they feel that their shares are being devalued. So yes it comes down to money and right now past research shows that the money EA BioWare thought it had coming is no longer guaranteed.

[revo76]

New fans can be gained, you're correct. So if BW gain mostly old FIFA fans, this means we'll have FIFA Effect game right ? Or if they attract COD fans, we suppose to have Call of Effect game ?

If they want to turn ME series to Super Mario, be my guest. RPG is a unique type of gameplay and fans of these games are very hard to earn. A core RPG fans is worth more than COD-FIFA-BF3 fan.

[Aesieru]

glacier1701 wrote...

Austin N wrote...

Hey, I'm curious about something. People often mention TOR when they talk about how Bioware has degraded in the last few years. Now, I know why DA2 was so controversial, but what's the problem with TOR? I've heard about a patch that screwed things up, but other then that I don't know why people are disappointd with it.

 Well for a game with a 'level' limit it had almost NO high level content and what was there was buggy and open to exploits. Months later and still a lot of bugs in the high level content are  not fixed, the content is basically do this same thing EVERY day and so on and so on. In short they put so much work into getting to the high level they had few resources devoted to developing high level content and even then have still not put much effort into adding high level content. As important there are certain things that should now be standard features for any MMO such as support for guilds (clans or whatever), role players, solo players and so on yet there was minimal stuff there and ONLY now almost 5 months on are some extras finally trickling in. 

 The bad thing is that supposedly they have people from OUTSIDE of BioWare who have MMO experience and who should have been able to point out issues but it seems as voicing the game was the single thing they thought would sell the game (apart from it being Star Wars) and did nothing else.

 Anyways all of the point - we are SIGNIFICANT to BioWare - market research shows any company the importance of customers. This is NOT something new (apart from how quickly the customer grouped up to voice concerns) and the effects of not solving the problem is well known. You can be sure the market research people of EA and the bean counters are looking at the numbers and trying to estimate the impact on sales. The fact that there ARE responses (even if only PR at the moment) suggests that internally they are scared that they might be forced into a situation of having to abandon any/all plans for anything ME related when they were counting on that money. And what of the EA shareholders? I doubt that they'll sit still if they feel that their shares are being devalued. So yes it comes down to money and right now past research shows that the money EA BioWare thought it had coming is no longer guaranteed.

High level content is hardly the issue... the lack of story focus and continual story is the issue.

[Torrible]

-Area51-Silent wrote...

Torrible wrote...

I love how people assert that the 50k people who voted in the polls are all disgruntled hardcore gamers who can be easily rallied to dump Bioware.


Many of them may have disliked the ending but still are pleased with Bioware or ME3

Many of them might have considered the possibility of getting a free ending DLC. They might think "Bioware panic = free dlc".

Some of them may have been recruited by Retakers to rig the results; they may not even be gamers.

Many of them won't let one disappointment affect their future decisions.

Many of them will be disgruntled yes, but just like disgruntled Starwars fans post TPM, they will keep coming back. Some won't be able to keep away from the drama.

No one is saying they won't come back, but many will wait for a review from users. Meaning those "pre-order" sales will tank, creating more uncertainty of sales. More or less, this won't happen again, people will buy their games as long as they hear/see good things from users they know/trust and get the ins and outs. Blind trust will more than likely go away. So in essence, you are correct, but that means if their next game (say Mass Effect 4) comes out and it has somthings that people deem as terrible, many of those "pre-order" folks who would have just bought it without reading anything about it, will probably not buy it, and wait for used/price dropped copies before they invest in the product thus reducing/eliminating sales that the publisher/developers would have gotten..its all about business and business is all about money, when you cut corners you lose customers.

You are possibly right. A game should stand and fall on its own merit anyway. Nothing wrong with being discerning as well. But a poll on ME3's ending is in no way predictive of ME4's sales.

Modifié par Torrible, 31 mars 2012 - 02:30 .

[pikey1969]

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

Thank you. You may now return to your regularly scheduled "being wrong".

That line was just too funny to read, after your waxing praises of how awesomely COD has catered to and focused on  its 'hardcore fans' that put them on the map. 

Nope. As soon as COD reached that certain critical mass of 'fans' and customers, Activisions been milking the crap out of the franchise like no tomorrow, the 'hardcore' fans that put the series on the map have tossed to the way side, first the PC gamers, then the competetive players, and now whatever remained of the hardcore fans but the braindead teenagers or people who don't give a crap and just want to shoot **** (same people talked down to as being 'casuals' or 'nubs'). 

While I might have mentioned it, COD probably isn't the best comparison for this situation anyway. Different genre, different audience (in both age and level of expectations), and etc. Then again, you really think the 'suits' that much of the Retake movement thinks they'll be initimdating understand things like that? Probably not. I would not put it past them to look at the way some of the larger franchises have been shaped and model a lot of their thinking around those marketing strategies and history and apply it to managing Bioware projects.

[GreyLord]

If bioware tosses off the comments as nothing to worry about, and then the next game sells terribly...will anyone be surprised?

It's a bad idea to ignore anything that has tens of thousands of fans via a forum behind it.  They are no doubt NOT the only ones that are behind it...and if you have that many wanting something and being vocal, their is probably several times that who are silent.

I'd say it's a bad gamble that other companies have actually tried before...and died because no one bought their games after that.

So, I think it may be more significant to Bioware's future than the OP gives credence to.

[N7soldier]

you know, I don't care if bioware doesn't need me, it works the other way around too. I want to see how they handle this mess and to see if artistic integrity(aka their pride) will truely blind them to the fan complaints. If it does then see ya later bioware, I wish you luck.

[pikey1969]

revo76 wrote...

New fans can be gained, you're correct. So if BW gain mostly old FIFA fans, this means we'll have FIFA Effect game right ? Or if they attract COD fans, we suppose to have Call of Effect game ?

If they want to turn ME series to Super Mario, be my guest. RPG is a unique type of gameplay and fans of these games are very hard to earn. A core RPG fans is worth more than COD-FIFA-BF3 fan.

Think you're reading things selectively. I regret highlighting things for the TLDR people now. =/ 

So we're assuming anyone who ever spoke out against the ending or didn't like them (the 'core' fans) will completely forsake and boycott Bioware? I hardly think so, especially once Bioware puts out the 'clarification' patches/DLCs and draws the line there.

Even if they do walk away for good, Bioware can certainly earn them back. It's not as if Bioware came out and said 'screw you all, this is what you get'. They've announced the clarification patches/DLC, which is a clear public recognition that they're not entirely right here. It's very clear that the fans' message has hit home, quite hard, and they'll most certainly be looking at the way they've been handling the endings in the future, for the FUTURE titles.

Sure it'd be great, if everyone at Bioware, took a cold shower and looked at the endings and thought 'wow, yea maybe we SHOULD do something about this mistake right now' and decided to make an 'alternative' ending DLC. That obviously isn't what's been hinted at or alluded to by Bioware so far. The fans are really not in a position to make Bioware think 'omg if we don't do this we'll be ****ed' like they think they are.

[-Area51-Silent]

Torrible wrote...

-Area51-Silent wrote...

Torrible wrote...

I love how people assert that the 50k people who voted in the polls are all disgruntled hardcore gamers who can be easily rallied to dump Bioware.


Many of them may have disliked the ending but still are pleased with Bioware or ME3

Many of them might have considered the possibility of getting a free ending DLC. They might think "Bioware panic = free dlc".

Some of them may have been recruited by Retakers to rig the results; they may not even be gamers.

Many of them won't let one disappointment affect their future decisions.

Many of them will be disgruntled yes, but just like disgruntled Starwars fans post TPM, they will keep coming back. Some won't be able to keep away from the drama.

No one is saying they won't come back, but many will wait for a review from users. Meaning those "pre-order" sales will tank, creating more uncertainty of sales. More or less, this won't happen again, people will buy their games as long as they hear/see good things from users they know/trust and get the ins and outs. Blind trust will more than likely go away. So in essence, you are correct, but that means if their next game (say Mass Effect 4) comes out and it has somthings that people deem as terrible, many of those "pre-order" folks who would have just bought it without reading anything about it, will probably not buy it, and wait for used/price dropped copies before they invest in the product thus reducing/eliminating sales that the publisher/developers would have gotten..its all about business and business is all about money, when you cut corners you lose customers.

You are possibly right. A game should stand and fall on its own merit anyway. Nothing wrong with being discerning as well. But a poll on ME3's ending is in no way predictive of ME4's sales.

Oh, I don't use polls as prediction tolls, I look and read what is being said here and around the net. I am an accountant (CPA) by trade, I've also been working on my Sigma-6 designation as well. All my speculation is purely based on what I see and my experience in the gaming industry ( been following gaming for around 20+ years). I don't think ME4 will be bad because of ME3, simply put though, I won't (as many) buy it outright and blind because now I (and others) see that the game quality has a chance to be out of sync with what our expectations are. And I also undertand the implications of that, and how it effects everyone, so in essence keeping your core fans is a high priority! there will always be those who are a little let down with an ending or part of a game, but when its as major as we have seen, with the "Retake ME3" and what not, it has to be addressed immediately, else the chance of losing a lot in terms of certainty etc.. comes into play.

[-Skorpious-]

If Bioware/EA is keen on losing the support of loyal fans, fine, that is their prerogative. However, I hope they know that I am using a ME3 N7 Imperator, a $80 piece of ME merchandise, to write this response. Will your average consumer spend so much additional money on the Mass Effect brand? Hardly. Will the hardcore, loyal fanbase spend such money? Without a doubt.

So what is more important for Bioware/EA at the moment? Releasing a DLC that will win-back the support of long-time fans without impacting future consumers? Or losing a significant chunk of their fanbase by appealing to a crowd who will ultimately forget your game exists when the next shooter hits the shelves?

[iamthedave3]

pikey1969 wrote...

revo76 wrote...

New fans can be gained, you're correct. So if BW gain mostly old FIFA fans, this means we'll have FIFA Effect game right ? Or if they attract COD fans, we suppose to have Call of Effect game ?

If they want to turn ME series to Super Mario, be my guest. RPG is a unique type of gameplay and fans of these games are very hard to earn. A core RPG fans is worth more than COD-FIFA-BF3 fan.

Think you're reading things selectively. I regret highlighting things for the TLDR people now. =/ 

So we're assuming anyone who ever spoke out against the ending or didn't like them (the 'core' fans) will completely forsake and boycott Bioware? I hardly think so, especially once Bioware puts out the 'clarification' patches/DLCs and draws the line there.

Even if they do walk away for good, Bioware can certainly earn them back. It's not as if Bioware came out and said 'screw you all, this is what you get'. They've announced the clarification patches/DLC, which is a clear public recognition that they're not entirely right here. It's very clear that the fans' message has hit home, quite hard, and they'll most certainly be looking at the way they've been handling the endings in the future, for the FUTURE titles.

Sure it'd be great, if everyone at Bioware, took a cold shower and looked at the endings and thought 'wow, yea maybe we SHOULD do something about this mistake right now' and decided to make an 'alternative' ending DLC. That obviously isn't what's been hinted at or alluded to by Bioware so far. The fans are really not in a position to make Bioware think 'omg if we don't do this we'll be ****ed' like they think they are.

I think comparisons with Square-Enix are worthwhile. When a company gets a reputation - whatever that rep is - it behooves them to live up to it. Both Bioware and Squeenix were known for great games, at one point if it had Squeenix on it you should probably buy it.

Now?

Well, the Final Fantasy franchise is juddering and looked to be on life support up until FF 13-2, but even so there's all kinds of news about them taking a new direction for the next FF.

Bioware could end up in a similar situation. Their much-touted ending to the greatest trilogy of our time will now be enshrined as 'that game with the horrible ending'. It's bad enough that people barely talk about anything else even in the gaming media.

That kind of thing can leave a painful mark which stains a company for some time or does irreperable damage to how people perceive them.

So... it's hard to say. As the Wii learned, casual fans are casual. They're easily lost and they don't come back. In large part they're lured by noise made by the hardcores. If you lose the hardcore noise, you can easily end up losing the casuals, too. This isn't COD and it never will be. It cannot ever have the sort of easy appeal those games can. RPGs in general have always thrived on hardcore appeal, and in trying to convert that into public success. Dark Souls and Demon's Souls are the biggest examples of that in recent years.

Also interesting in the 'artistic' thingy; the Dark Souls team have decided to release DLC despite originally saying they had no intention of doing so, largely due to fan feedback. No news on what it is yet though.

[Fapmaster5000]

pikey1969 wrote...

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

Thank you. You may now return to your regularly scheduled "being wrong".

That line was just too funny to read, after your waxing praises of how awesomely COD has catered to and focused on  its 'hardcore fans' that put them on the map. 

Nope. As soon as COD reached that certain critical mass of 'fans' and customers, Activisions been milking the crap out of the franchise like no tomorrow, the 'hardcore' fans that put the series on the map have tossed to the way side, first the PC gamers, then the competetive players, and now whatever remained of the hardcore fans but the braindead teenagers or people who don't give a crap and just want to shoot **** (same people talked down to as being 'casuals' or 'nubs'). 

While I might have mentioned it, COD probably isn't the best comparison for this situation anyway. Different genre, different audience (in both age and level of expectations), and etc. Then again, you really think the 'suits' that much of the Retake movement thinks they'll be initimdating understand things like that? Probably not. I would not put it past them to look at the way some of the larger franchises have been shaped and model a lot of their thinking around those marketing strategies and history and apply it to managing Bioware projects.

First, it's not a matter of "intimidating".  At its best, the Retake movement is/was a notice of, "this is not acceptable, please fix this so we can go back to loving it", not "omg u suck bioware".  At it's worst, there was the FTC dude.  *sigh*  Some people.

Second, you used CoD, so I took your argument and countered.  The problem is your assumption about what is core to the CoD fans.  Server browsers are a service issue.  PC vs console is a platform issue.  Hardcore vs casual is a tricky mire of faulty arguments.  What matters to CoD is tight shooting and immersive gunplay.  The levelling system, the killstreaks, the mods, the modes, all of this feeds into the visceral shooting.  If and when that fails, CoD will sink, just like other franchises before it.  The fanbase (not every fan, but the bulk of the base) will stick around, so long as the core of the franchise continues to deliver what they want: tight, fun gunplay.

For Bioware fans, this is story. How many people do you think came to Mass Effect because, "Man, I love having the sprint and cover buttons bound to the same controls.  It's so fluid and responsive, and I never get stuck on a wall."  or "Dude, I love planet scanning and clunky vehicle controls."  or, now, "Yeah, that multiplayer is so well balanced, Vanguards don't ****** me off in the slightest!"  I'll put money on the table that those numbers are very, very small.  The players came for the story and characters, and that is what's broken.  Just like CoD fans will put up with server browser issues and lame stories to get to the shooting, ME fans will put up with some subpar mechanics to get to the amazing story.  When that core breaks, however, you get... this mess.  (If and when CoD's core breaks, I imagine that the break with be both more crude than this, yet far less passionate, just based on the stereotypes of who like which game.)

So, your arguments about "they'll get a new fanbase, CoD did" are false.  Even if you were correct in that ME3 was an attempt to swap bases (judging by the amount of story work for parallel outcomes, I'm guessing not) ME3 is still approaching being a game that is worth playing in a vacuum, bereft of it's story and characters, but it is not there yet.  If their intention was to jump genres with this game, then they will have failed, as the target audience they were trying to bring in did not give sufficient notice, and the current core fanbase has become a poisonous word of mouth trap.

(Please note: this is assuming the OP's arguments are somewhat valid, and do not actively represent my beliefs on the endings.)

[Yubz]

You're assuming that only the hardcore fans are disappointed with the ending.
What makes you think that?

Modifié par Yubz, 31 mars 2012 - 02:53 .

[Fapmaster5000]

Yubz wrote...

You're assuming that only the hardcore fans are disappointed with the ending.
What makes you think that?

Also... THIS. 

[foxlockbox]

As long as they fix it to the point that the current cycle still works and the familiar surroundings are there with a good partion of the old characters around I can look over the ME3 ending and give new game in this IP a chance, but if they fail to do that I'm pretty much done with Bioware games alltogether.

[pikey1969]

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

pikey1969 wrote...

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

Thank you. You may now return to your regularly scheduled "being wrong".

That line was just too funny to read, after your waxing praises of how awesomely COD has catered to and focused on  its 'hardcore fans' that put them on the map. 

Nope. As soon as COD reached that certain critical mass of 'fans' and customers, Activisions been milking the crap out of the franchise like no tomorrow, the 'hardcore' fans that put the series on the map have tossed to the way side, first the PC gamers, then the competetive players, and now whatever remained of the hardcore fans but the braindead teenagers or people who don't give a crap and just want to shoot **** (same people talked down to as being 'casuals' or 'nubs'). 

While I might have mentioned it, COD probably isn't the best comparison for this situation anyway. Different genre, different audience (in both age and level of expectations), and etc. Then again, you really think the 'suits' that much of the Retake movement thinks they'll be initimdating understand things like that? Probably not. I would not put it past them to look at the way some of the larger franchises have been shaped and model a lot of their thinking around those marketing strategies and history and apply it to managing Bioware projects.

First, it's not a matter of "intimidating".  At its best, the Retake movement is/was a notice of, "this is not acceptable, please fix this so we can go back to loving it", not "omg u suck bioware".  At it's worst, there was the FTC dude.  *sigh*  Some people.

Second, you used CoD, so I took your argument and countered.  The problem is your assumption about what is core to the CoD fans.  Server browsers are a service issue.  PC vs console is a platform issue.  Hardcore vs casual is a tricky mire of faulty arguments.  What matters to CoD is tight shooting and immersive gunplay.  The levelling system, the killstreaks, the mods, the modes, all of this feeds into the visceral shooting.  If and when that fails, CoD will sink, just like other franchises before it.  The fanbase (not every fan, but the bulk of the base) will stick around, so long as the core of the franchise continues to deliver what they want: tight, fun gunplay.

For Bioware fans, this is story. How many people do you think came to Mass Effect because, "Man, I love having the sprint and cover buttons bound to the same controls.  It's so fluid and responsive, and I never get stuck on a wall."  or "Dude, I love planet scanning and clunky vehicle controls."  or, now, "Yeah, that multiplayer is so well balanced, Vanguards don't ****** me off in the slightest!"  I'll put money on the table that those numbers are very, very small.  The players came for the story and characters, and that is what's broken.  Just like CoD fans will put up with server browser issues and lame stories to get to the shooting, ME fans will put up with some subpar mechanics to get to the amazing story.  When that core breaks, however, you get... this mess.  (If and when CoD's core breaks, I imagine that the break with be both more crude than this, yet far less passionate, just based on the stereotypes of who like which game.)

So, your arguments about "they'll get a new fanbase, CoD did" are false.  Even if you were correct in that ME3 was an attempt to swap bases (judging by the amount of story work for parallel outcomes, I'm guessing not) ME3 is still approaching being a game that is worth playing in a vacuum, bereft of it's story and characters, but it is not there yet.  If their intention was to jump genres with this game, then they will have failed, as the target audience they were trying to bring in did not give sufficient notice, and the current core fanbase has become a poisonous word of mouth trap.

(Please note: this is assuming the OP's arguments are somewhat valid, and do not actively represent my beliefs on the endings.)

I never said ME3 is attempting to swap bases. 

Only reason I cited COD in one of my replies was as an EXAMPLE of decisions/choices that alienate a specific core audience that ultimately doesn't have the same alienating effect on the rest of the audience.

The decision to stick with an unpopular narrative choice in ME3 (in this case the god child and blow-up, control, synthesis as being cannon) that alienated a portion of their core is comparable in significance and magnitudeof COD's choice to change its networking/overall design priorities to something that alienated/pissed of a significant portion of the PC market or their growing emphasis on amplifying accessability and instant gratification of increasingly overpowered streaks over gameplay balance/depth that alienated many hardcore players that spoke out passionately against it. 

You may object to my choice of the word 'portion' when describing the fans that would be completely alienated by Bioware's decision to only 'clarify' the ending, but that's really one of my main points in the OP.

[Chaoswind]

Bioware said they are saddened that I wasn't able to understand their ending, in short they are calling me stupid...

So yeah, I am probably a gonner, I was never a "hardcore" fan, i liked ME1, but it was a game I played on a friend house and never finished, then I played ME2 and liked the game, and went back and bought ME1 because my decisions changed the game, and I loved that; for ME3 I bought the collectors edition meaning I was going to be part of the core fanbase, but that is no longer a possibility, now I am back where I started, I know Bioware makes RPGs, but I won't go out of my way to buy them.

[Lancane]

Legendaryred wrote...

If your product is good enough to satisfy a "small" group like a hardcore fanbase you won't go out of business. How did you think ME1 made it into ME2 and then into ME3? Not many people gave 2 cents when ME1 came out, and that's when BW started to build a fanbase for ME, that same fanbase bought ME2 which brought more people in as it was more in par with other games at the time. Plenty of developers do just fine by pleasing a small group of fans.

Without a doubt this is one of the most inaccurate comments I've read thus far on these boards. 

Mass Effect was one of the most heralded releases in gaming history, Bioware was already a well respected game developer by the time they even started the initial developement of the game. Baldur's Gate a classical role playing game brought them to the level of other highly respected developers such as Activision. They followed that up with Neverwinter Nights which was considered to be another pinnacle game for the genre. Bioware's Tour De Force and the game that launched them past other developers and into the spotlight was Knights of the Old Republic, this brought about a whole legion of fans that would eventually make up a good percentage of the core of fans that they have today. Bioware continued to strive and show their mastery of the genre following up KOTOR with Jade Empire which was a first of it's kind, a martial arts game with a role playing twist and like Knights of the Old Republic earned the company even greater acclaim and success. 

So claiming that Mass Effect succeeded due to a small group of hardcore fans is completely false, in fact if you check the overall sales for Mass Effect the game was the most successful in Bioware history at that point and time. Considering their past successes, it would be a fair assessment to state that had they not developed Knights of the Old Republic and Jade Empire that Mass Effect wouldn't have had the sales or following that it did have. 

[BadlyBrowned]

Yubz wrote...

You're assuming that only the hardcore fans are disappointed with the ending.
What makes you think that?

Firstly, this was my first thought at the OP.

Secondly, Bioware has every right to cater to whatever audience they are targeting. If I am no longer part of that audience, then so be it, they won't get any revenue from me anymore. 

[Fapmaster5000]

pikey1969 wrote...

I never said ME3 is attempting to swap bases.

To quote your OP: 

pikey1969 wrote...

That said, even if many of the long-time/hardcore fans are lost, new fans can be gained. 

Okay, you didn't use those exact words, but please, do tell me how that statement was not intended to be conflated with "losing one group of longtime fans to gain another group of fans".  And, if you didn't mean the base when you referred to "long-time/hardcore fans", who did you mean?  And which "new fans" would be gained?  

pikey1969 wrote... 

Only reason I cited COD in one of my replies was as an EXAMPLE of decisions/choices that alienate a specific core audience that ultimately doesn't have the same alienating effect on the rest of the audience.

The decision to stick with an unpopular narrative choice in ME3 (in this case the god child and blow-up, control, synthesis as being cannon) that alienated a portion of their core is comparable in significance and magnitudeof COD's choice to change its networking/overall design priorities to something that alienated/pissed of a significant portion of the PC market or their growing emphasis on amplifying accessability and instant gratification of increasingly overpowered streaks over gameplay balance/depth that alienated many hardcore players that spoke out passionately against it.  

All stop.

Please note your own wording: "significant portion of the PC market".  Please pay special attention to "portion of the PC market".  That's a portion of a portion that is not even their main market, and I say this as a huge fan of PC gaming.  This would be akin to if Bioware had put good endings on the PS3 and XBOX, but gave PC users the current magic cupcake ending.  Maybe not even that, we'd have to compare how much of ME3's market was on PC versus console, and then compare that to CoD.  Nevertheless, this is not a sectional issue.  Every player of ME3 got the same nut punch.  Some didn't mind it, obviously many (quite possibly most) did.

Also note in your paragraph: "their growing emphasis on amplifying accessability and instant gratification".  Please note that I argued that CoD's core selling point was it's tight multiplayer and gunplay.   Instant gratification and accessability are NOT in direct conflict with tight multiplayer and gunplay.  Some (again, portions of portions) may have found those changes grating (and were rewarded with changes in the killstreak system in each version, usually with the intent to reduce factors that reduced fun, but these changes were not directly against the core selling point, nor were they severe enough to warrant such backlash.

pikey1969 wrote...  

You may object to my choice of the word 'portion' when describing the fans that would be completely alienated by Bioware's decision to only 'clarify' the ending, but that's really one of my main points in the OP.

I never objected to the word portion.  I objected to the drift of your argument that this was simply another DA2/PC-no-server-browser/core-selling-points-don't-matter, and attempted to *ahem* clarify why your arguement was misguided, as it orginated from a false comparison.

As for the endings themselves: we'll see what "clarify" means within the month.  I'm hopeful, but also doubtful.  I simply disagree on how much this could hurt Bioware.  Even without fixing this ending (which does include ending DLC, or even just a really, really good "clarification"), they may still recover in the long haul, but they'll have to spend a lot more money/time to buy back goodwill they never should have lost.  I know I'll be waiting for user reviews on their products from here out, and I'm sure as heck not buying into a trilogy until I know it doesn't faceplant in the ending act.

[vigna]

Each day that passes it seems to matter less and less to me......That isn't good for loyal customers like myself in relation to future Bioware purchases. If they wish to remain steadfast and bank on future customers that is up to them.

[Baine10]

They didn't lose the hardcore fan. They turned the hardcore fan against them.

In doing so, the hardcore fan will engage in active counter-publicity. Everything unravels. Retake will have it's effects and victory will eventually be theirs.

It never pays to abandon your most loyal customers. Sure, you may benefit from new ones in the short-term, but eventually you'll maxis and westwood out of the market.

[Vhalkyrie]

Buying games is part of my entertainment budget. It doesn't make a difference to me whether I'm in the minority or majority opinion. It doesn't change my opinion either way. If they go on to be more successful than ever without changing a thing, more power to them. It's just not the kind of story that I have an interest in continuing to follow. "Twilight" is a series that is very popular, but it's not my kind of story. If other people enjoy it, great. ME is a story that has taken a turn that I no longer enjoy, so I won't pursue it. My entertainment budget gets spent either way, just on a different game.

[Taboo]

effortname wrote...

Hardcore fans are the idiots who buy all your merchandise, take pictures of themselves cosplaying your characters, and generally do other stupid crap to spread word of mouth all over the place. It's really not good at all for a company to lose millions of dollars in free marketing.

[ZiegenkonigIII]

I love how you keep editing the title and post to make it more offensive/inciteful then it already is.