199 réponses à ce sujet

[Atheosis]

lolpunch wrote...

Graal is good, but it doesn't have tracking projectiles when you use the sights like the GPS does, which makes it just that little bit better since you can just spam it in the general vicinity of the enemy and do some serious damage. I do love using the Graal without a doubt, especially that super satisfying double burst that chunks virtually anything it hits.

The Graal vs GPS comparison is perfect illustration of a balanced gun and an overpowered gun.  They are very close in functionality, and in the hands of player that has used it a lot, the Graal may even outperform the GPS.  But the Graal has clear downsides, while the GPS has none (other than weight I suppose, though it even feels lighter than it should to me).  Seriously the gun is good at ranges other sotguns can only dream of, has homing projectiles, and does the best DPS of any shotgun.  It's overpowered.  Period.

Now do I think it needs to be nerfed?  I wouldn't object if they increased its weight to heavy sniper level, but at the same time I don't really care if they leave it as is.  I'm much more interested in improving the garbage guns than messing with the uber guns.   

[translationninja]

Scorpion - So misunderstood.

If you're bugged by the 3 second delay just place your shots in your target's path, they'll explode when it walks onto them

Splatter damage FTW

[Atheosis]

IPraetoriaNI wrote...

Ummm, I use Phaeston, Locust, and Eviscerator on a daily basis on multiple chars, and I'm quite satisfied with them. (And yeah, I play Silver, sometimes Gold).

So I guess I'm either a mega-ubah-pr0, or the OP's oppinion is flawed. I vote for the later.

Or you are simply satisfied with sub-par guns.  That's a possibility as well.

Seriously, do people not know how to disagree without being jerks?

[Icophesis]

I hear the Scorpion also fails a lot due to lag.

Also, you didn't mention the Falcon. I'm surprised. I haven't played since the latest patch which upped the damage since the uber nerf it received, is it ok to use now?

[DangerSandler]

ManualReplica wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

ManualReplica wrote...

I have negative recoil on my Revenant.

Upgrade your attachments guys.

I have all the mods available.  There's no way to completely remove the Revenant's recoil.  More than that, the issue is more about the gun's horrid accuracy than its recoil.  The gun can't score head shots worth a crap beyond short range, and that's how most guns earn their place on Gold.  So if you leave the recoil and accuracy alone, then you need to boost damage to compensate for the lack of headshots.  The point is that the Revenant, a gun that is supposed to be about overwhelming firepower, just doesn't have said overwhelming firepower as long as its damage/accuracy ratio is so terrible.

Three words,

Turians + Stability Dampener

You shouldnt have to use a specific build setup to make a weapon remotely viable. 

[Xaijin]

Atheosis wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

The scorpion is actually fine except for detonation speed. The problem is like the falcon its effectiveness is mitigated by lag. Looking over your list, it looks a lot of your complaints are actually lag or hit-effect based. The geth shotgun is in no way OP, it's simply the best shotgun along with the Wraith and Graal, and there's always going to be a best weapon, like the Black Widow or Talon or Carnifex. You're also ignoring that the Krogan Sent and Turian Sent and Asari vanguard need a mid range option one carry option and the GPS or Graal is it. Also hilarious that you failed ot mention the Graal but call the GPS OP. Have oou not looked at their stats? You also conveniently ignored the viper's fire rate and revenant's knock back attributes.

The GPR needs a damage boost, and the Hornet needs serious recoil/kickback care, but most your list is simply playstyle incompatibility.

When the Graal develops homing projectiles instead of slow moving projectiles that require you to lead a target at a distance, you'll have a point.  

As far as "playstyle incompatibility" goes, you're right.  My playstyle is incompatible with crappy guns.  

Oh, and I did mention the Viper's RoF by the way.  I mentioned that it's one of the many things that make it suck.

When the GPS stuns as hard as, and has DoT like the Graal you'll have a point. Opinion != fact.

Modifié par Xaijin, 31 mars 2012 - 02:59 .

[SinerAthin]

Icophesis wrote...

I hear the Scorpion also fails a lot due to lag.

Also, you didn't mention the Falcon. I'm surprised. I haven't played since the latest patch which upped the damage since the uber nerf it received, is it ok to use now?

Unless you are the host, 2-5 of the shots are blanks(out of a 6 shot mag)

[Rifneno]

ManualReplica wrote...

Not every weapon is viable for gold and not every weapon should excell at any range.

No. But rares should definitely be viable for gold.

TexasToast712 wrote...

Yes, it is fine. Don't get agree? Bioware does. Get over it.

BW thinks it's fine? You base that off what exactly, the ever-growing list of balance changes which include it or the deafening silence they've given in response to concerns about it? That, like absolutely everything else I've ever seen you say, is nothing but your opinion coated in a thick layer of "nuh uh, I'm right cuz I said I'm right!" and exactly zero well thought out arguments to defend your side.

[Xceptopec]

I'm a staunch defender of the Geth Pulse Rifle (and as a basis for comparison behind my reasoning - before I got mine I was a die-hard advocate of either the Avenger or the Mattock).

Prior to getting my Geth Pulse Rifle I already had my Avenger at X and my Mattock at II - both with barrel extension V and ammo cap expansion V - switching those mods to my Geth Pulse Rifle I, that gun was better than the Avenger X.

Why?

With those mods, the GPR I packed one hell of a punch, with virtually no recoil. 144 round magazine and 400 spare rounds. No other weapon can give such devasting suppression fire due to recoil. Full auto burst rips shields and barriers to pieces, and it's damned handy for taking Guardians down.

Mine is now a GPR III with ammo cap extension V and piercing I - 422 spare rounds, and deals immense damage to armour on top of shjelds and barriers.

While i don't really know 8 of the listed weapons, and fully agree with the OPs summary of the Eviscerator and the Incisor - I have to state that the GPR does not belong on this list, the GPR is probably the best suppresion fire and sustained fire weapons in the game.

[Atheosis]

translationninja wrote...

Scorpion - So misunderstood.

If you're bugged by the 3 second delay just place your shots in your target's path, they'll explode when it walks onto them

Splatter damage FTW

I don't misunderstand it at all.  The targeting the feet thing makes it better, but it doesn't always work (sometimes they wait to blow up anyway), and you can't always get the angle on an enemy's feet.  Just to be clear, I shoot at enemies' feet whenever I can, and I still feel the gun is a bit sub-par, especially for an N7.  At the same time, I don't think the gun is awful, like many on the list, so much as hindered by the explosion delay and very low ammo capacity.

[Atheosis]

Xceptopec wrote...

I'm a staunch defender of the Geth Pulse Rifle (and as a basis for comparison behind my reasoning - before I got mine I was a die-hard advocate of either the Avenger or the Mattock).

Prior to getting my Geth Pulse Rifle I already had my Avenger at X and my Mattock at II - both with barrel extension V and ammo cap expansion V - switching those mods to my Geth Pulse Rifle I, that gun was better than the Avenger X.

Why?

With those mods, the GPR I packed one hell of a punch, with virtually no recoil. 144 round magazine and 400 spare rounds. No other weapon can give such devasting suppression fire due to recoil. Full auto burst rips shields and barriers to pieces, and it's damned handy for taking Guardians down.

Mine is now a GPR III with ammo cap extension V and piercing I - 422 spare rounds, and deals immense damage to armour on top of shjelds and barriers.

While i don't really know 8 of the listed weapons, and fully agree with the OPs summary of the Eviscerator and the Incisor - I have to state that the GPR does not belong on this list, the GPR is probably the best suppresion fire and sustained fire weapons in the game.

Being better than the Avenger X is not quite the standard I hold a rare gun to.  And presently it's pretty debatable statement anyway.  I personally see them as equal, unless I'm using cryo or incendiary ammo, in which case I prefer the GPR.  

At the same time, you do have good points about ammo and sustained fire.  Which is why I actually use the gun on one of my characters as stated in my original post.  It still needs a buff to live up to its status as a rare.  Even if that buff comes with a slight weight increase so as to not completely kill the Avenger as the power spammer AR, a buff really needs to happen.

[elferin91]

Chrumpek wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

 This list is a total failure. These guns are perfectly fine. Especially the Revenant and Evi.

Care to elaborate beyond a single sentence?  I've usd all these guns extensively, and I stand by my takes on them.  You seem to almsot be saying weapon balance overall in this game is good.  That can't possibly be your take.  Can it? 

Let me state it then.

This game is perfectly balanced. Any opinion you have on these guns is wrong. The Revenant and Evi especially don't need a buff. Leave the balance to the guys who made the game.

And you still didn't elaborate....

Everything is fine, leave everything to devs so far gave us ME3 ending and DA2 ;>

Feedback is appreciated everywhere, if you got your own opinion about balance - share it.

i think what he/she is trying to say that just because you are noobs and don't know when or how to properly use this guns, doesn't mean it needs a nerf, and i for one agree

ESPECIALLY ON SCORPION, that gun is not for every class and no it doesn't need a buff

[dunx125]

Your buff choices make a lot of sense. I disagree with your choice to lower recoil of some automatic weapons though, since recoil can be controlled by sliding the mouse/controller down as you fire. In my opinion, the only guns which have excessive recoil are the Hornet and Incisor (don't have the Hurricane). The accuracy and damage stats definitely need to be looked at though.

Do you think that the balance system should account for the fact that all automatic weapons are much more powerful with a Turian soldier? I think that shouldn't be a problem, considering how powerful the caster classes are.

[TexasToast712]

Rifneno wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Yes, it is fine. Don't get agree? Bioware does. Get over it.

BW thinks it's fine? You base that off what exactly, the ever-growing list of balance changes which include it or the deafening silence they've given in response to concerns about it? That, like absolutely everything else I've ever seen you say, is nothing but your opinion coated in a thick layer of "nuh uh, I'm right cuz I said I'm right!" and exactly zero well thought out arguments to defend your side.

I love it when you are angry. Your arguments make no sense. Bioware thinks it is fine otherwise it would have received a DPS buff by now.

[Athenau]

I love it when you are angry. Your arguments make no sense. Bioware thinks it is fine otherwise it would have received a DPS buff by now.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[TexasToast712]

Athenau wrote...

I love it when you are angry. Your arguments make no sense. Bioware thinks it is fine otherwise it would have received a DPS buff by now.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Again, you make no sense.

[Atheosis]

dunx125 wrote...

Your buff choices make a lot of sense. I disagree with your choice to lower recoil of some automatic weapons though, since recoil can be controlled by sliding the mouse/controller down as you fire. In my opinion, the only guns which have excessive recoil are the Hornet and Incisor (don't have the Hurricane). The accuracy and damage stats definitely need to be looked at though.

Do you think that the balance system should account for the fact that all automatic weapons are much more powerful with a Turian soldier? I think that shouldn't be a problem, considering how powerful the caster classes are.

Other than the Revenant, the only gun's I proposed recoil reductions on were the Hornet and Incisor.

As far as your Turian Soldier point goes, no I don't see that as an issue.  The Turian Soldier is long way from being as good as many other classes presently, so I'm not worried about him suddenly becoming overpowered.  At worst he would become a DPS machine with practically no utility powers.  Not particularly a big deal. 

[dunx125]

Do you think that the Heavy pistols need a nerf of some kind? Someone on the forum had the idea to replace the 2x sight with a laser sight. That's quite a clever way of doing it, since then it will require more skill to get headshots. Also, I miss the blue laser sight of the Phalanx in ME2.

[FataliTensei]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

 This list is a total failure. These guns are perfectly fine. Especially the Revenant and Evi.

Care to elaborate beyond a single sentence?  I've usd all these guns extensively, and I stand by my takes on them.  You seem to almsot be saying weapon balance overall in this game is good.  That can't possibly be your take.  Can it? 

Let me state it then.

This game is perfectly balanced. Any opinion you have on these guns is wrong. The Revenant and Evi especially don't need a buff. Leave the balance to the guys who made the game.

 Are you ****ing kidding me?

[Atheosis]

dunx125 wrote...

Do you think that the Heavy pistols need a nerf of some kind? Someone on the forum had the idea to replace the 2x sight with a laser sight. That's quite a clever way of doing it, since then it will require more skill to get headshots. Also, I miss the blue laser sight of the Phalanx in ME2.

I think they should've been originally designed to be much less accurate, but I'm leary of proposing nerfs.  This is a coop game, so I think I'd rather just bring everything up (including enemies if necessary) than nerf.  But if they nerf pistols I'll certainly understand why.

That said, pistols do not outclass everything as some people claim.  Sometimes I think people simply look at bar graph comparisons and conclude one gun is better than another.  The Mattock for instance, actually has better firepower than pretty much every pistol when factoring in DPS and ammo capacity, but many will claim otherwise.  Or people will say the Paladin is better than the Saber when the Saber pops heads at pretty much the same rate while having twice the magazine and twice the spare ammo.  

Modifié par Atheosis, 31 mars 2012 - 03:37 .

[Skaife417]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Yes, it is fine. Don't get agree? Bioware does. Get over it.

BW thinks it's fine? You base that off what exactly, the ever-growing list of balance changes which include it or the deafening silence they've given in response to concerns about it? That, like absolutely everything else I've ever seen you say, is nothing but your opinion coated in a thick layer of "nuh uh, I'm right cuz I said I'm right!" and exactly zero well thought out arguments to defend your side.

I love it when you are angry. Your arguments make no sense. Bioware thinks it is fine otherwise it would have received a DPS buff by now.

Bioware also thought day 1 DLC and the endings were fine as well. They are also rebalancing weapons every week.

[Elecbender]

Atheosis wrote...

dunx125 wrote...

Do you think that the Heavy pistols need a nerf of some kind? Someone on the forum had the idea to replace the 2x sight with a laser sight. That's quite a clever way of doing it, since then it will require more skill to get headshots. Also, I miss the blue laser sight of the Phalanx in ME2.

I think they should've been originally designed to be much less accurate, but I'm leary of proposing nerfs.  This is a coop game, so I think I'd rather just bring everything up (including enemies if necessary) than nerf.  But if they nerf pistols I'll certainly understand why.

Ever tried using a Paladin without a scope?  Just the amount of crosshair bloom will throw your aim off on long-range shots after the first shot.  Pretty much have to wait until the crosshairs reset itself to fire again.

[Drogonion]

TexasToast712 wrote...

 This list is a total failure. These guns are perfectly fine. Especially the Revenant and Evi.

Troll is troll.  Ignore.

Agree with the OP.  Those guns, especially the AR's, are junk.  

[Atheosis]

Elecbender wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

dunx125 wrote...

Do you think that the Heavy pistols need a nerf of some kind? Someone on the forum had the idea to replace the 2x sight with a laser sight. That's quite a clever way of doing it, since then it will require more skill to get headshots. Also, I miss the blue laser sight of the Phalanx in ME2.

I think they should've been originally designed to be much less accurate, but I'm leary of proposing nerfs.  This is a coop game, so I think I'd rather just bring everything up (including enemies if necessary) than nerf.  But if they nerf pistols I'll certainly understand why.

Ever tried using a Paladin without a scope?  Just the amount of crosshair bloom will throw your aim off on long-range shots after the first shot.  Pretty much have to wait until the crosshairs reset itself to fire again.

This kind of the point of scopes yes?

[OneDrunkMonk]

The only time I've used any SMG is when I have a temp bonus on damage, with an ammo bonus. Other than that I'd rather the Avenger or solo a pistol. SMG with scope is virtually useless (have yet to receive a stability mod for the SMG). Phaeston I used once, didn't like it for it's weight to effectiveness ratio, wasn't that good in SP either. Incisor the same, I mean why when I have a Raptor lvl IV? Sniper Rifles like the Mantis should have character auto-reload after every shot. It's bad enough we have to deal with this rather nonsensical bolt-action lever but sometimes in the heat of battle you find yourself with an empty chamber just as you finally lined up the perfect shot. Meh.