199 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabresandiego]

Atheosis wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Viper is good on an infiltrator, it just becomes obsolete once you get a black widow or valiant. You can outscore a widow user with a viper on trash enemies, the widow only outclasses the viper due to its heavy damage on big armored targets.

The Mantis is worlds better than the Viper, so it is obsolete out of the gate.  And just so you know, outside the possible exception of the common guns, no gun is ever supposed to outright become obsolete.  I mean the Raptor never becomes obsolete and its an uncomomon just like the Viper.  

I prefer the viper to the mantis, especially on a human or quarian infiltrator.

[Elecbender]

robarcool wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Elecbender wrote...

Here's an interesting alternative for the Arc Pistol:

Increase its encumbrance to 1.75 - 1.15 but give it 12 more base damage and make it consume 4 shots per charge for the same charge time (the second part is actually an advantage rather than a disadvantage).

That's one freaking heavy pistol.

Yep. At least make the weight of the pistols mean something. A pistol that weighs as much as a shotgun? Wow, just wow.

It also does as much as a shotgun.  The point was making its CHARGE do more damage than one Paladin shot.  And its easily showable that 200% recharge bonus isn't as godly as most people here think.

[GodlessPaladin]

TexasToast712 wrote...
Let me state it then.

This game is perfectly balanced. Any opinion you have on these guns is wrong.

Obvious troll is obvious.

No game as complex as ME3 is perfectly balanced.  Even if it somehow was, for the sake of argument, what would you say to the changes they make every week?  You can't get "more perfect than perfect."  All I've ever seen you do in any of the threads you post in, TexasToast, is thoughtlessly and aggressively support the status quo while never, ever backing up your arguments with anything even resembling actual logic (though you say you do  ).

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 31 mars 2012 - 08:05 .

[Arkley]

The Talon needs some attention as well. It weighs the same as the Paladin now, but the Paladin does more damage and has a higher rate of fire. Combine this with the fact that the Talon is essentially a shotgun and isn't viable over long ranges (which the Paladin is), and note that they're the same rarity. It's embarrassing, really, because the Talon has no reason to exist - it has no advantages over the Paladin despite being slower, shorter-ranged, equally as heavy and equally rare.

The solution is simple; buff its damage to either match or slightly surpass the Paladin, with a slightly higher RoF. The Talon is now superior to the Paladin at close range, while the Paladin is still superior at long range and precision fire.

Alternatively, just increase its RoF and reduce its weight. Reducing its weight will make it more a more viable weapon for power-centric classes, who are more likely to use their powers at a distance anyway. Having lower firepower than the Paladin is the tradeoff for less encumbrance and faster close-range damage.

Modifié par Arkley, 31 mars 2012 - 08:09 .

[KainD]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Let me state it then.

This game is perfectly balanced..

Not even close. This game has HUGE overlaps of effectivness between both classes and weapons. It's very poorly balanced.

[Sabresandiego]

Arkley wrote...

The Talon needs some attention as well. It weighs the same as the Paladin now, but the Paladin does more damage and has a higher rate of fire. Combine this with the fact that the Talon is essentially a shotgun and isn't viable over long ranges (which the Paladin is), and note that they're the same rarity. It's embarrassing, really, because the Talon has no reason to exist - it has no advantages over the Paladin despite being slower and short-ranged.

The solution is simple; buff its damage to either match or slightly surpass the Paladin, with a slightly higher RoF. The Talon is now superior to the Paladin at close range, while the Paladin is still superior at long range and precision fire.

Alternatively, just increase its RoF and reduce its weight. Reducing its weight will make it more a more viable weapon for power-centric classes, who are more likely to use their powers at a distance anyway. Having lower firepower than the Paladin is the tradeoff for less encumbrance and faster close-range damage.

The talon is the strongest close range weapon in the game for a vanguard, due to its balanced stats (large clip, fast reload, high dps). The weapon sucks at any range except super close, making it a vanguard only weapon for the most part, although infiltrators could also excel with it (they can excel with any weapon).

The talon already makes shotguns like the katana, scimitar, eviscerator, and wraith completely obsolete by the time you have a talon 4 or 5.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 31 mars 2012 - 08:11 .

[TexasToast712]

Arkley wrote...

The Talon needs some attention as well. It weighs the same as the Paladin now, but the Paladin does more damage and has a higher rate of fire. Combine this with the fact that the Talon is essentially a shotgun and isn't viable over long ranges (which the Paladin is), and note that they're the same rarity. It's embarrassing, really, because the Talon has no reason to exist - it has no advantages over the Paladin despite being slower and short-ranged.

The solution is simple; buff its damage to either match or slightly surpass the Paladin, with a slightly higher RoF. The Talon is now superior to the Paladin at close range, while the Paladin is still superior at long range and precision fire.

Alternatively, just increase its RoF and reduce its weight. Reducing its weight will make it more a more viable weapon for power-centric classes, who are more likely to use their powers at a distance anyway. Having lower firepower than the Paladin is the tradeoff for less encumbrance and faster close-range damage.

The Talon is a shotgun. It isn't meant to compete with a Paladin.

[Arkley]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Arkley wrote...

The Talon needs some attention as well. It weighs the same as the Paladin now, but the Paladin does more damage and has a higher rate of fire. Combine this with the fact that the Talon is essentially a shotgun and isn't viable over long ranges (which the Paladin is), and note that they're the same rarity. It's embarrassing, really, because the Talon has no reason to exist - it has no advantages over the Paladin despite being slower and short-ranged.

The solution is simple; buff its damage to either match or slightly surpass the Paladin, with a slightly higher RoF. The Talon is now superior to the Paladin at close range, while the Paladin is still superior at long range and precision fire.

Alternatively, just increase its RoF and reduce its weight. Reducing its weight will make it more a more viable weapon for power-centric classes, who are more likely to use their powers at a distance anyway. Having lower firepower than the Paladin is the tradeoff for less encumbrance and faster close-range damage.

The Talon is a shotgun. It isn't meant to compete with a Paladin.

Yes, it is meant to compete with the Paladin, because equipping it uses the pistol slot, thereby excluding one from equiping the Paladin.

As for it being a shotgun - which it essentially is - its comparison with other shotguns is not exactly favourable either.

Modifié par Arkley, 31 mars 2012 - 08:13 .

[Sabresandiego]

Arkley wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Arkley wrote...

The Talon needs some attention as well. It weighs the same as the Paladin now, but the Paladin does more damage and has a higher rate of fire. Combine this with the fact that the Talon is essentially a shotgun and isn't viable over long ranges (which the Paladin is), and note that they're the same rarity. It's embarrassing, really, because the Talon has no reason to exist - it has no advantages over the Paladin despite being slower and short-ranged.

The solution is simple; buff its damage to either match or slightly surpass the Paladin, with a slightly higher RoF. The Talon is now superior to the Paladin at close range, while the Paladin is still superior at long range and precision fire.

Alternatively, just increase its RoF and reduce its weight. Reducing its weight will make it more a more viable weapon for power-centric classes, who are more likely to use their powers at a distance anyway. Having lower firepower than the Paladin is the tradeoff for less encumbrance and faster close-range damage.

The Talon is a shotgun. It isn't meant to compete with a Paladin.

Yes, it is meant to compete with the Paladin, because equipping it uses the pistol slot, thereby excluding one from equiping the Paladin.

As for it being a shotgun - which it essentially is - its comparison with other shotguns is not exactly favourable either.

The talon has only one weakness, and that is that you cant put an accuracy mod on it and so you are limited to close range. This makes the gun only useful on vanguards. At close range, it outperforms all other weapons, especially on a vanguard.

[JohnDoe]

you can spam the arc pistol and kill most mobs enemies in silver with a single charged shot on head.

[Arkley]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Arkley wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Arkley wrote...

The Talon needs some attention as well. It weighs the same as the Paladin now, but the Paladin does more damage and has a higher rate of fire. Combine this with the fact that the Talon is essentially a shotgun and isn't viable over long ranges (which the Paladin is), and note that they're the same rarity. It's embarrassing, really, because the Talon has no reason to exist - it has no advantages over the Paladin despite being slower and short-ranged.

The solution is simple; buff its damage to either match or slightly surpass the Paladin, with a slightly higher RoF. The Talon is now superior to the Paladin at close range, while the Paladin is still superior at long range and precision fire.

Alternatively, just increase its RoF and reduce its weight. Reducing its weight will make it more a more viable weapon for power-centric classes, who are more likely to use their powers at a distance anyway. Having lower firepower than the Paladin is the tradeoff for less encumbrance and faster close-range damage.

The Talon is a shotgun. It isn't meant to compete with a Paladin.

Yes, it is meant to compete with the Paladin, because equipping it uses the pistol slot, thereby excluding one from equiping the Paladin.

As for it being a shotgun - which it essentially is - its comparison with other shotguns is not exactly favourable either.

The talon has only one weakness, and that is that you cant put an accuracy mod on it and so you are limited to close range. This makes the gun only useful on vanguards. At close range, it outperforms all other weapons, especially on a vanguard.

It does not outperform all other weapons. The range at which you use the Paladin is irrelevant - it's more powerful than the Talon whether fired point-blank or not. Getting closer to an enemy won't make the Talon do more damage than the Paladin. Being closer to a target won't make it fire faster than the Paladin. It has no advantages over the Paladin at any range and - because they're of equal weight - in any build.

[Trix-Rabbit]

It seems that many in this thread simply dont play gold. This is a pistol/sniper game entirely, if you are close enough to use a shotgun, chances are you are dead or able to grab, in which case you would just grab until there are no more enemies.

[Atheosis]

Trix-Rabbit wrote...

It seems that many in this thread simply dont play gold. This is a pistol/sniper game entirely, if you are close enough to use a shotgun, chances are you are dead or able to grab, in which case you would just grab until there are no more enemies.

First of all, that's actually what I play primarily.  Second of all, you are wrong.  Particularly about shotguns.  

And actually you sound like someone farming White to me with your talk of grabs over shotguns, so I'm going to have to say you are the one who doesn't actually play Gold.  Exploiting design flaws (grab camping on a particular map) is not playing Gold.

[Atheosis]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Arkley wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Arkley wrote...

The Talon needs some attention as well. It weighs the same as the Paladin now, but the Paladin does more damage and has a higher rate of fire. Combine this with the fact that the Talon is essentially a shotgun and isn't viable over long ranges (which the Paladin is), and note that they're the same rarity. It's embarrassing, really, because the Talon has no reason to exist - it has no advantages over the Paladin despite being slower and short-ranged.

The solution is simple; buff its damage to either match or slightly surpass the Paladin, with a slightly higher RoF. The Talon is now superior to the Paladin at close range, while the Paladin is still superior at long range and precision fire.

Alternatively, just increase its RoF and reduce its weight. Reducing its weight will make it more a more viable weapon for power-centric classes, who are more likely to use their powers at a distance anyway. Having lower firepower than the Paladin is the tradeoff for less encumbrance and faster close-range damage.

The Talon is a shotgun. It isn't meant to compete with a Paladin.

Yes, it is meant to compete with the Paladin, because equipping it uses the pistol slot, thereby excluding one from equiping the Paladin.

As for it being a shotgun - which it essentially is - its comparison with other shotguns is not exactly favourable either.

The talon has only one weakness, and that is that you cant put an accuracy mod on it and so you are limited to close range. This makes the gun only useful on vanguards. At close range, it outperforms all other weapons, especially on a vanguard.

Err...you can put a scope on a Talon.  

[Atheosis]

Arkley wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Arkley wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Arkley wrote...

The Talon needs some attention as well. It weighs the same as the Paladin now, but the Paladin does more damage and has a higher rate of fire. Combine this with the fact that the Talon is essentially a shotgun and isn't viable over long ranges (which the Paladin is), and note that they're the same rarity. It's embarrassing, really, because the Talon has no reason to exist - it has no advantages over the Paladin despite being slower and short-ranged.

The solution is simple; buff its damage to either match or slightly surpass the Paladin, with a slightly higher RoF. The Talon is now superior to the Paladin at close range, while the Paladin is still superior at long range and precision fire.

Alternatively, just increase its RoF and reduce its weight. Reducing its weight will make it more a more viable weapon for power-centric classes, who are more likely to use their powers at a distance anyway. Having lower firepower than the Paladin is the tradeoff for less encumbrance and faster close-range damage.

The Talon is a shotgun. It isn't meant to compete with a Paladin.

Yes, it is meant to compete with the Paladin, because equipping it uses the pistol slot, thereby excluding one from equiping the Paladin.

As for it being a shotgun - which it essentially is - its comparison with other shotguns is not exactly favourable either.

The talon has only one weakness, and that is that you cant put an accuracy mod on it and so you are limited to close range. This makes the gun only useful on vanguards. At close range, it outperforms all other weapons, especially on a vanguard.

It does not outperform all other weapons. The range at which you use the Paladin is irrelevant - it's more powerful than the Talon whether fired point-blank or not. Getting closer to an enemy won't make the Talon do more damage than the Paladin. Being closer to a target won't make it fire faster than the Paladin. It has no advantages over the Paladin at any range and - because they're of equal weight - in any build.

The Paladin is categorically not more powerful than the Talon at close range, especially for a Vanguard who needs finishing damage (ie burst damage over DPS).  The Talon does considerably more damage per shot, and that first shot should ideally finish your target with a Vanguard.

[Atheosis]

Arkley wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Arkley wrote...

The Talon needs some attention as well. It weighs the same as the Paladin now, but the Paladin does more damage and has a higher rate of fire. Combine this with the fact that the Talon is essentially a shotgun and isn't viable over long ranges (which the Paladin is), and note that they're the same rarity. It's embarrassing, really, because the Talon has no reason to exist - it has no advantages over the Paladin despite being slower and short-ranged.

The solution is simple; buff its damage to either match or slightly surpass the Paladin, with a slightly higher RoF. The Talon is now superior to the Paladin at close range, while the Paladin is still superior at long range and precision fire.

Alternatively, just increase its RoF and reduce its weight. Reducing its weight will make it more a more viable weapon for power-centric classes, who are more likely to use their powers at a distance anyway. Having lower firepower than the Paladin is the tradeoff for less encumbrance and faster close-range damage.

The Talon is a shotgun. It isn't meant to compete with a Paladin.

Yes, it is meant to compete with the Paladin, because equipping it uses the pistol slot, thereby excluding one from equiping the Paladin.

As for it being a shotgun - which it essentially is - its comparison with other shotguns is not exactly favourable either.

The Talon outclasses every shotgun not named Geth Plasma Shotgun.  Even then, it has roles with certain builds where it is better.  The Talon is a good gun, especially after the damage buff they just gave it.

[Torguemada]

Arkley wrote...
It does not outperform all other weapons. The range at which you use the Paladin is irrelevant - it's more powerful than the Talon whether fired point-blank or not. Getting closer to an enemy won't make the Talon do more damage than the Paladin. Being closer to a target won't make it fire faster than the Paladin. It has no advantages over the Paladin at any range and - because they're of equal weight - in any build.

Talon does way more damage then paladin, infact Talon I does more damage then Paladin X.

[Eckswhyzed]

Icophesis wrote...

I hear the Scorpion also fails a lot due to lag.

Also, you didn't mention the Falcon. I'm surprised. I haven't played since the latest patch which upped the damage since the uber nerf it received, is it ok to use now?

It's not overpowered any more. Does decent damage on bronze/silver with my Adrenaline Rush soldier. Haven't tried it on Gold yet.

[Darkslayer557]

TexasToast712 wrote...


This game is perfectly balanced. 

I don't think even the devs would say that, otherwise why do they release a balance patch every now and then?

[Atheosis]

Eckswhyzed wrote...

Icophesis wrote...

I hear the Scorpion also fails a lot due to lag.

Also, you didn't mention the Falcon. I'm surprised. I haven't played since the latest patch which upped the damage since the uber nerf it received, is it ok to use now?

It's not overpowered any more. Does decent damage on bronze/silver with my Adrenaline Rush soldier. Haven't tried it on Gold yet.

After the nerf I was convinced it sucked.  I continued to be convinced it sucked after they buffed its damage.  Then I realized I was judging the gun based more on preconecptions than reality.  So I went ahead and tested it out over multiple matches with a character custom built for it (max weapon damage, heavy barrel, and extended magazine are extremely important), and I can confidently say used right, the gun is one of the better AR's available.  I use it with Concussive Shot spam instead of Adrenaline Rush however, because the constant disruption of the weapon and the power combined along with AoE damage basically destroys everything in its path.  Adrenaline Rush just doesn't do it for me as it's currently designed.  Way too weak and short-lived.

Which pretty much sums up why I didn't put the Falcon on my list.  If it didn't have that annoying bug, I think I might even go as far as to say its the best AR in the game.  (This is funny to me, because just few days ago I was hating on it in another thread.)

[squidney2k1]

 Not bad, TC. But I have 2 additions:


12. Raptor
This is supposed to be a Sniper Rifle with the rate of fire and low-powered scope of a semi-automatic Assault Rifle. The problem? Those semi-automatic assault rifles have less recoil and do more damage than the Raptor.
Solution: Increase the damage by 25% (it should at least be more than the Mattock). Increase reload time by 50% (reload is already too fast).

13. Claymore
The mother of all Shotguns? Not really. While it looks great on paper with it's high damage, it's range, firing speed, ammo count, and weight are all eclipsed by the Geth Pulse Shotgun. And the kicker? A charged GPS shot will actually do more damage than the Claymore upclose, and you can get off 2 shots by the time the Claymore reloads the first.
Solution: Increase the damage by 20%. This weapon is supposed to be THE ultimate in-your-face gun, but it's outclassed in so many ways that it's hardly worth equiping.

[Abraham_uk]

Scorpion is my favourite pistol. It's great fun.

In Dragon Age Origins I loved the ticking time bomb spell. This gun is just like that. It places a mini bomb on a foe and it will explode doing damage to nearby enemy. Great fun.

Also the geth assault rifle being on this list too? I love that gun.

Aside from those two, I agree with this list.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 31 mars 2012 - 10:11 .

[Abraham_uk]

squidney2k1 wrote...

 Not bad, TC. But I have 2 additions:


12. Raptor
This is supposed to be a Sniper Rifle with the rate of fire and low-powered scope of a semi-automatic Assault Rifle. The problem? Those semi-automatic assault rifles have less recoil and do more damage than the Raptor.
Solution: Increase the damage by 25% (it should at least be more than the Mattock). Increase reload time by 50% (reload is already too fast).

13. Claymore
The mother of all Shotguns? Not really. While it looks great on paper with it's high damage, it's range, firing speed, ammo count, and weight are all eclipsed by the Geth Pulse Shotgun. And the kicker? A charged GPS shot will actually do more damage than the Claymore upclose, and you can get off 2 shots by the time the Claymore reloads the first.
Solution: Increase the damage by 20%. This weapon is supposed to be THE ultimate in-your-face gun, but it's outclassed in so many ways that it's hardly worth equiping.

The Raptor is a pretty good weapon. If you're only going to equip one weapon (for cooldown reasons) then it might as well be a jack of all trades. Sure it's trumped by other weapons but it holds it's own pretty well. I liked the fact it was a quick firing sniper/assault rifle. Recoil is a pain. But it's not as bad as you're making it out.

Claymore. Big dissapointment. I wholeheartedly agree with you there.

[Rofl a wet sock]

A good thread, 3 things outstanding to me.
Hornet: Yes, what you said hit the nail on the head.
Viper: Wrong. That gun may get outclassed by the carnifex, but it is nowhere near being a bad gun.
Eviscerator: Good gun IF you know how to use it, especially with a Salarian Inf.

[Atheosis]

squidney2k1 wrote...

 Not bad, TC. But I have 2 additions:


12. Raptor
This is supposed to be a Sniper Rifle with the rate of fire and low-powered scope of a semi-automatic Assault Rifle. The problem? Those semi-automatic assault rifles have less recoil and do more damage than the Raptor.
Solution: Increase the damage by 25% (it should at least be more than the Mattock). Increase reload time by 50% (reload is already too fast).

13. Claymore
The mother of all Shotguns? Not really. While it looks great on paper with it's high damage, it's range, firing speed, ammo count, and weight are all eclipsed by the Geth Pulse Shotgun. And the kicker? A charged GPS shot will actually do more damage than the Claymore upclose, and you can get off 2 shots by the time the Claymore reloads the first.
Solution: Increase the damage by 20%. This weapon is supposed to be THE ultimate in-your-face gun, but it's outclassed in so many ways that it's hardly worth equiping.

The Raptor and Claymore are both very respectable guns.  The Raptor has some of the highest DPS in the game (while being exceptionally accurate--and I have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to recoil), and the Claymore is unholy on certain characters.  

Oh and no, the GPS's charged shot does not do more damage than the Claymore up close.

Modifié par Atheosis, 31 mars 2012 - 10:26 .