193 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyJaneGrey]

I wander into the room, and husband asks which he should choose. I suggest allowing Legion to upload, having gotten the kittens-and-rainbows-best-buds result with my Shepard.

We both watch Tali commit suicide. O_o

"I should go..." and scoot out.

[Serp86]

Both sides are stupid and deserve to be slapped on the head for it so they come to their senses. Simple as that.

Siding with the Reapers is just as bad as starting a war while a Reaper attack imminent. Doesn't mean i have to kill anyone for it.

Modifié par Serp86, 31 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[Shallyah]

I blame Bioware for making the Quarians look so awfully dumb and blind in the eyes of the player. You get constantly harassed by Han'Gerrel's zealous yells, who also almost kills you aboard the dreadnought. Then you are shown convenient images of the past of the Geth being experimented on.

But think of this: How would you feel if at one point your TV speaks to you "You only want me to watch movies. You do not care about my feelings". I don't know about you, but I'd hit it with a baseball bat and then put it on fire.

The Geth could have just left Rannoch and ocupy about any of the thosuands of planets in the galaxy instead, they don't even need breatahable atmosphere. They want to be left alone? Then move to a goddamn planet without oxigen in its atmospehre and nobody will ever bother them. Seriously, use that grandious AI logic you brag about. But no, they stay on Rannoch, and force Quarians to a hurtful exile in which they need to live inside complicated enviro-suits for generations because unlike the Geth, the Quarians need Rannoch to live.

Then at every opportunity they get, the Geth ally with the Reapers, even knowing that means they'll be campaigning for wiping out every organic lifeform of the Galaxy, not only the Quarians. I mean.. how can anyone sympathize with them is hard to understand.

It doesn't mean you have to sympathize with the Quarians either, they have their traditions and stupid ways around things, and some few individuals that are capable of getting in your nerve. Worst of all, those individuals also have power within the Quarian society. They also choose a very poor timing to strike at the Geth to retake their homeland. But seriously, thinking the Geth are the innocent side is being really short sighted.

Modifié par Shallyah, 31 mars 2012 - 03:56 .

[Fogg]

Killed the Geth. I did have the chance to let them make peace, but screw those AI's.

[lolerk53]

Pottumuusi wrote...

There is a special place in hell for people who didn't take the peace option.
It's in the same corner as the people who shot Mordin.

[jspiess]

Pottumuusi wrote...

There is a special place in hell for people who didn't take the peace option.
It's in the same corner as the people who shot Mordin.

I don't think I could ever do a renegade playthrough and shoot Mordin

[Rogue Unit]

sergio71785 wrote...

dgumb wrote...

sergio71785 wrote...

Yes, the quarians made a mistake 300 years ago, but virtually all organic races would have made the same mistake (humans most of all). Every person responsible for that mistake is dead. Don't hold people responsible for the mistakes of their ancestors.

For me, it has nothing to do with the mistakes their ancestors made. The current Quarrians make quite enough mistakes on their own in my opinion.

What mistakes? Attacking Rannoch? Three people are responsible for that mistake. We really shouldn't forget that each member of a race is a unique individual. The only races that act as a whole are geth and reapers

Should humanity be blamed in its entirety every time Cerberus does something evil?

You really think the three admirals are the only ones the supported war?

[dgumb]

sergio71785 wrote...

dgumb wrote...

sergio71785 wrote...

Yes, the quarians made a mistake 300 years ago, but virtually all organic races would have made the same mistake (humans most of all). Every person responsible for that mistake is dead. Don't hold people responsible for the mistakes of their ancestors.

For me, it has nothing to do with the mistakes their ancestors made. The current Quarrians make quite enough mistakes on their own in my opinion.

What mistakes? Attacking Rannoch? Three people are responsible for that mistake. We really shouldn't forget that each member of a race is a unique individual. The only races that act as a whole are geth and reapers

Should humanity be blamed in its entirety every time Cerberus does something evil?

1 Attacking Rannoch (edit: as someone else pointed out, starting a war while they knew the Reapers were already attacking the other races, so even if they had won against the Geth, they'd still be destroyed by the Reapers because no one else was left to save them.)

2 trying to destroy the dreadnought with Shepard's team aboard (thereby dooming the ENTIRE REST OF THE GALAXY if Shepard were to die)

3 refusing to listen to Tali and Shepard when they're begging them to stop the attack (unless you can paragon/renegade your way out of it)

4 allowing their leaders to bring them to the brink of extinction in a war they almost knew they'd lose

And Cerberus isn't the right analogy. It would be correct if Cerberus were the governing body of the Systems Alliance. So, if the government in charge of all yumanity were as equally boneheaded and myopic, then yes they should be blamed.

Modifié par dgumb, 31 mars 2012 - 03:59 .

[Silhouett3]

Umm... How did you people killed Quarians? I had aimed to do it but instead ended up wiping out the Geth. 

Should I have uploaded Reaper code first? Or missed something else?

[bleetman]

Rogue Unit wrote...

And you really think the quarians would venture beyond the Veil because the Geth (remember everyone thought the geth were crazy homocidal machines at the time) sent them a message saying "lol com get your planet. we're not bad guyz"?

I doubt they'd immediately jump their entire fleet into system and start pitching tents, no. If they're remotely smart however - which I tend to assume they are - they'd send a few scout ships, who could easily confirm that the Geth weren't around anymore.

Either way, does it really matter? If they ignored it and spent the next three centuries doing what they did regardless, then yes, they'd be idiots who squandered their chance. If anything, that'd just make the Geth's position more respectable, because at least they would've tried. Rather than what they did, which was 'nothing, and blow up the ships of anyone who crosses into their system'.

[Rogue Unit]

Shallyah wrote...

I blame Bioware for making the Quarians look so awfully dumb and blind in the eyes of the player. You get constantly harassed by Han'Gerrel's zealous yells, who also almost kills you aboard the dreadnought. Then you are shown convenient images of the past of the Geth being experimented on.

But think of this: How would you feel if at one point your TV speaks to you "You only want me to watch movies. You do not care about my feelings". I don't know about you, but I'd hit it with a baseball bat and then put it on fire.

The Geth could have just left Rannoch and ocupy about any of the thosuands of planets in the galaxy instead, they don't even need breatahable atmosphere. In the other hand, they stay on Rannoch, and force Quarians to a hurtful exile in which they need to live inside complicated enviro-suits for generations because unlike the Geth, the Quarians need Rannoch to live.

Give me one good reason why the Geth should return land that they won in a war the quarians started? The quarians are lucky the geth weren't out to commit complete genocide like they were.

[Rogue Unit]

bleetman wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

And you really think the quarians would venture beyond the Veil because the Geth (remember everyone thought the geth were crazy homocidal machines at the time) sent them a message saying "lol com get your planet. we're not bad guyz"?

I doubt they'd immediately jump their entire fleet into system and start pitching tents, no. If they're remotely smart however - which I tend to assume they are - they'd send a few scout ships, who could easily confirm that the Geth weren't around anymore.

Either way, does it really matter? If they ignored it and spent the next three centuries doing what they did regardless, then yes, they'd be idiots who squandered their chance. If anything, that'd just make the Geth's position more respectable, because at least they would've tried. Rather than what they did, which was 'nothing, and blow up the ships of anyone who crosses into their system'.

Convenient how you ignore the fact that Legion does offer them peace in ME2, which they ignore.

[Wifflebottom]

I made the Quarians and geth peaceful but if I didn't have that option I'd kill the Quarians, because they're the pricks that initiated the geth/quarian war. But at the end I ended up destroying all synthetics because the other choices were bs)

[daisekihan]

EnerPrime wrote...

Let's see on one side, there's the Quarians who have spent the last 300 years getting shat on by the galaxy for things their ancestors did. They found what seemed like a sure shot at taking their home planet back and took it in the hopes of maybe making their lives not an unending parade of racism and mockery from every other race.

On the other hand you've got the Geth, who are isolationist and peaceful unless provoked. But it didn't take very long for them to throw out their "we want our own future" thing out the window and sign up with the genocidal mechanical abominations. On top of that, they could have avoided this war at any time in the last 300 years by realising that they don't need Rannoch. They were pretty much holding on to that planet as a big middle finger to the quarians. If the Geth had just sent a message to them decaring "We're not actually mass murdering machines like we let you believe until now. We've abandoned Rannoch and you can have it back. We're gonna go build our Geth superstructure in some uninhabited system no one wants." the war never would have happened.

The quarians may have poor timing for starting the war, but the geth are far more at fault for having the ability to prevent the war for centuries and never doing it.

Why should the Geth leave Rannoch when it is just as much their homeworld as the Quarians, who still reguard them as non-entities who deserve to be destroyed? If the Quarians had made even the slightest gesture of peace, the Geth would have accepted.

As for allying with the Reapers, the Quarian attack destroyed a huge number of Geth programs --- hey made a stupid decision because the Quarians basically shot a big chunk of their brains out (whereas the Quarians made stupid decisions over and over again although their was nothing wrong with their brains). Legion explains it perfectly --- "Imagine if, for every person killed on Earth, your own intelligence dimmed."

Modifié par daisekihan, 31 mars 2012 - 04:01 .

[Shallyah]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

I blame Bioware for making the Quarians look so awfully dumb and blind in the eyes of the player. You get constantly harassed by Han'Gerrel's zealous yells, who also almost kills you aboard the dreadnought. Then you are shown convenient images of the past of the Geth being experimented on.

But think of this: How would you feel if at one point your TV speaks to you "You only want me to watch movies. You do not care about my feelings". I don't know about you, but I'd hit it with a baseball bat and then put it on fire.

The Geth could have just left Rannoch and ocupy about any of the thosuands of planets in the galaxy instead, they don't even need breatahable atmosphere. In the other hand, they stay on Rannoch, and force Quarians to a hurtful exile in which they need to live inside complicated enviro-suits for generations because unlike the Geth, the Quarians need Rannoch to live.

Give me one good reason why the Geth should return land that they won in a war the quarians started? The quarians are lucky the geth weren't out to commit complete genocide like they were.

Easy: The Geth claim that they do not want conflict. They also brag of outstanding AI and counsel to decide logically what's the best for the Geth. Any brute with half brain would move to a planet that does not invoke conflict. Preferibly one without breathable atmosphere, so they are left alone forever.

By staying on Rannoch they're taunting the Quarians generation after generation, being hypocrites about their own "we do not want conflict" logic. The Quarians -need- Rannoch to live. Also, up till Rannoch end sequence in ME3, the Geth are damn machines that keep allying with the Reapers to wipe out all organic life in the universe. I personally couldn't care less about what happens to all that space junk. The Quarians may have some dumb individuals, but they are people.

Modifié par Shallyah, 31 mars 2012 - 04:02 .

[sergio71785]

Rogue Unit wrote...
Take Legion on the Floatilla. He flat out tells Koris the Geth want peace, but they have to make sure the quarians want the same thing.

Oh please. I have taken him to the flotilla, but that was hardly any kind of serious meeting. First of all, they have another trial going on, and the dialog that happens is unofficial conversation. It's not a peace negotiation of any kind. Secondly, they're dealing with a lone unit, not the whole collective. And thirdly, do the quarians even know they're dealing with a sentient geth? No other single geth unit has any kind of intelligence beyond animal-like.

Xen even asks if it's a real geth, or some kind of mech in a geth chasis.

You also have to consider that you have to go out of your way to get Legion to the Flotilla, and you have to compromise your game to even do so. That suggests to me that Bioware didn't even intend for people to take him on that mission (but obviously, couldn't stop it completely given the nature of the game structure, so they created some special dialog for him).

[sergio71785]

Rogue Unit wrote...
You really think the three admirals are the only ones the supported war?

They're the ones who declared it. Most quarians didn't want it. Tali even tells you so.

It's hardly the first time in history that leaders start a war that the people don't want.

Modifié par sergio71785, 31 mars 2012 - 04:12 .

[MadCat221]

sergio71785 wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...
Take Legion on the Floatilla. He flat out tells Koris the Geth want peace, but they have to make sure the quarians want the same thing.

Oh please. I have taken him to the flotilla, but that was hardly any kind of serious meeting. First of all, they have another trial going on, and the dialog that happens is unofficial conversation. It's not a peace negotiation of any kind. Secondly, they're dealing with a lone unit, not the whole collective. And thirdly, do the quarians even know they're dealing with a sentient geth? No other single geth unit has any kind of intelligence beyond animal-like.

Xen even asks if it's a real geth, or some kind of mech in a geth chasis.

You also have to consider that you have to go out of your way to get Legion to the Flotilla, and you have to compromise your game to even do so. That suggests to me that Bioware didn't even intend for people to take him on that mission (but obviously, couldn't stop it completely given the nature of the game structure, so they created some special dialog for him).

You don't need to compromise your game.  Pretty much the only thing you lose out on is Talimancing.  If you save Tali's LM for second-to-last, you can do both Tali's and then legion's LMs after you acquire the Reaper IFF.  My FemShep save has exactly that scenario saved up for import (waiting for the Kaidan/Engineer Banter bug to get fixed first though).

Just... don't go anywhere near the Galaxy Map before reactivating Legion.  Skirt the walls after you exit the conference room after the derelict reaper mission.  Do not talk to Kelly.  Do not check your emails.  Do not even look cross-eyed at the galaxy map, or else EDI goes into "reaper IFF ready" mode.

Modifié par MadCat221, 31 mars 2012 - 04:09 .

[daisekihan]

Shallyah wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

I blame Bioware for making the Quarians look so awfully dumb and blind in the eyes of the player. You get constantly harassed by Han'Gerrel's zealous yells, who also almost kills you aboard the dreadnought. Then you are shown convenient images of the past of the Geth being experimented on.

But think of this: How would you feel if at one point your TV speaks to you "You only want me to watch movies. You do not care about my feelings". I don't know about you, but I'd hit it with a baseball bat and then put it on fire.

The Geth could have just left Rannoch and ocupy about any of the thosuands of planets in the galaxy instead, they don't even need breatahable atmosphere. In the other hand, they stay on Rannoch, and force Quarians to a hurtful exile in which they need to live inside complicated enviro-suits for generations because unlike the Geth, the Quarians need Rannoch to live.

Give me one good reason why the Geth should return land that they won in a war the quarians started? The quarians are lucky the geth weren't out to commit complete genocide like they were.

Easy: The Geth claim that they do not want conflict. They also brag of outstanding AI and counsel to decide logically what's the best for the Geth. Any brute with half brain would move to a planet that does not invoke conflict. Preferibly one without breathable atmosphere, so they are left alone forever.

By staying on Rannoch they're taunting the Quarians generation after generation, being hypocrites about their own "we do not want conflict" logic. The Quarians -need- Rannoch to live. Also, up till Rannoch end sequence in ME3, the Geth are damn machines that keep allying with the Reapers to wipe out all organic life in the universe. I personally couldn't care less about what happens to all that space junk. The Quarians may have some dumb individuals, but they are people.

Those were the Heretics, the minority. The majority only joins with them, when they have, as you say, "half a brain" as the Quarians assured.

As for leaving Rannoch --- imagine if the Geth were organic contructs, genetically engineered to be the Quarians slaves. When they started showing self-awareness, they were rounded up to be slaughtered. Eventually, they fought back and drove the creators off planet, but only after countless of their own people had been purged. At the very least, even if they didn't want further conflict, why would they give up the home millions had given their lives to for? Or why would they assume the Quarians would not come after them and try to kill them wherever they went?

Modifié par daisekihan, 31 mars 2012 - 04:10 .

[MadCat221]

The Geth running to the Reapers when the Quarians invade exhibits something.... Irrational action caused by fear.

[Serp86]

I allways wondered why the hell the old Quarians didn't implement any saveguards into the Geth and why the hell they panicked when they became self aware.

Who cares if they are self aware as long as they don't hurt you. Didn't they have an Isaac Asimov with his Laws of Robotics ? My toaster or lawn mower can be as self aware as he wants ( and yes thats why the geth had been in the beginning nothing more ) as long as he does his job .

Modifié par Serp86, 31 mars 2012 - 04:13 .