I saved, despite the fact that they always annoyed the crap out of me. Whiny little idiots... what did you think was going to happen when you tried to fight the machines?! You're lucky all they did was push you off Rannoch instead of chasing your miserable weak asses across the galaxy.
Soo I killed the Quarians :D
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, mars 31 2012 02:12
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#127
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 04:52
Raven4030-2
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Assuming the peace option wasn't available, I would go with the Quarians. Really does boil down to organics vs. synthetics because it's hard for me to put either side really in the wrong here.
Based on what we know about Quarian government from all three games, the admiralty board handles many decisions, but the overall course of the Quarian fleet is decided by a legislative body (the conclave). It is likely what happened is the admirals presented a plan to take back the homeworld to the conclave. The conclave, consisting of politicians, voted in favor because no politician is going to go back to their constituency and say "I voted against taking back our homeworld because I found it morally wrong." You see politicians in real life, they don't take risky moral stands if they can avoid it and nothing is riskier than voting against ending 3 centuries of exile for crimes nobody alive today was around to commit.
So, the Quarians go to war ultimately because basic politics forces them to do so. No part of the fleet can survive on its own for long, and if there is a large break-up then all Quarians are doomed to extinction, so survival instincts developed over the course of 3 centuries of wandering the stars create a group think mentality that forces even the Quarians who don't want to go to war to ultimately go to war. In the mission where you save Koris, you run into one of his crewmen who points out to you that the civilian fleet didn't want this war but were dragged along for the ride.
As for the dreadnaught, much as I didn't like it, given the chance to look at it from Admiral Gerrel's point of view all I have to say is "sucks being on the other end, doesn't it?" In military terms, Gerrel made the right call. He had a chance to remove the most dangerous enemy asset from the board, and given that chance you do it. Sure, it sucks HARD being the team on the ground when friendly shells start landing around you, but you can bet Shepard would have made the same call... that goes double for a renegade Shepard. To put things in perspective: what Gerrel did to you is what you did to Aralakh company if you saved the Rachni queen. And no, don't give me that line about how "Shepard is the only hope for the galaxy." He is an exceptional soldier but in the cold, emotionless calculus of war he is still just one soldier.
Looking at both sides, I see two groups of people who made some bad, desperate calls that are completely understandable. I don't factor in the past because I don't believe the sins of the father should EVER pass to the son and I'll never take what a person's ancestors did into account when weighing what should be done today. I'll only factor in history to help provide perspective on the "why" of a conflict. The Geth were desperate, so surrendered their philosophy in the name of survival. The Quarians were desperate, so surrendered temperence and peace in the name of survival. As far as the Reaper war goes I get the impression they had already begun operations by the time the Reapers invade and when you attack an enemy it's just bad tactics to turn around and fight a new enemy when the old one is still at your rear and about to break.
So, while peace is preferred, if I absolutely HAD to pick one or the other, I pick the devil I know (organics) over the devil I don't (synthetics).
Based on what we know about Quarian government from all three games, the admiralty board handles many decisions, but the overall course of the Quarian fleet is decided by a legislative body (the conclave). It is likely what happened is the admirals presented a plan to take back the homeworld to the conclave. The conclave, consisting of politicians, voted in favor because no politician is going to go back to their constituency and say "I voted against taking back our homeworld because I found it morally wrong." You see politicians in real life, they don't take risky moral stands if they can avoid it and nothing is riskier than voting against ending 3 centuries of exile for crimes nobody alive today was around to commit.
So, the Quarians go to war ultimately because basic politics forces them to do so. No part of the fleet can survive on its own for long, and if there is a large break-up then all Quarians are doomed to extinction, so survival instincts developed over the course of 3 centuries of wandering the stars create a group think mentality that forces even the Quarians who don't want to go to war to ultimately go to war. In the mission where you save Koris, you run into one of his crewmen who points out to you that the civilian fleet didn't want this war but were dragged along for the ride.
As for the dreadnaught, much as I didn't like it, given the chance to look at it from Admiral Gerrel's point of view all I have to say is "sucks being on the other end, doesn't it?" In military terms, Gerrel made the right call. He had a chance to remove the most dangerous enemy asset from the board, and given that chance you do it. Sure, it sucks HARD being the team on the ground when friendly shells start landing around you, but you can bet Shepard would have made the same call... that goes double for a renegade Shepard. To put things in perspective: what Gerrel did to you is what you did to Aralakh company if you saved the Rachni queen. And no, don't give me that line about how "Shepard is the only hope for the galaxy." He is an exceptional soldier but in the cold, emotionless calculus of war he is still just one soldier.
Looking at both sides, I see two groups of people who made some bad, desperate calls that are completely understandable. I don't factor in the past because I don't believe the sins of the father should EVER pass to the son and I'll never take what a person's ancestors did into account when weighing what should be done today. I'll only factor in history to help provide perspective on the "why" of a conflict. The Geth were desperate, so surrendered their philosophy in the name of survival. The Quarians were desperate, so surrendered temperence and peace in the name of survival. As far as the Reaper war goes I get the impression they had already begun operations by the time the Reapers invade and when you attack an enemy it's just bad tactics to turn around and fight a new enemy when the old one is still at your rear and about to break.
So, while peace is preferred, if I absolutely HAD to pick one or the other, I pick the devil I know (organics) over the devil I don't (synthetics).
#128
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Posté 31 mars 2012 - 04:55
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Welsh Inferno wrote...
People here will never understand that.
Oh, I know.
#129
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 05:02
Vespervin
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I made peace between the Quarians and the Geth. Keelah se'lai.
(although, I wish Legion didn't have to sacrifice itself)
(although, I wish Legion didn't have to sacrifice itself)
#130
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 05:10
Mr. Big Pimpin
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I love BSN's ability to take a complex issue with lots of variables to consider and reduce it to a simple black-and-white "one side is innocent, the other deserves to be slaughtered en masse" solution.
Of course, the game itself failed to present all these different aspects to consider properly, so I can't blame everyone here all too much for not thinking critically.
Anyway, it's not hard to get peace, so there's no real excuse for committing genocide either way.
Of course, the game itself failed to present all these different aspects to consider properly, so I can't blame everyone here all too much for not thinking critically.
Anyway, it's not hard to get peace, so there's no real excuse for committing genocide either way.
#131
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 05:13
MadRabbit999
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Vespervin wrote...
I made peace between the Quarians and the Geth. Keelah se'lai.
(although, I wish Legion didn't have to sacrifice itself)
It is funny how ME has a very similar message to the bible over and over. (Legion sacrificing himself to save his people).
Makes me wonder if the writer has strong believes either way, or he just like to use the same mythology behind it.
#132
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 05:15
razor150
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The people who glibbly talk about killing the Quarians fail at understanding the conflict, and don't seem to understand Bioware is playing them for suckers. Not for letting the Geth live, but for thinking the Quarians should die. The whole reason they do it is because of Han Garell, and some images that show the Quarians as aggressors against the Geth. These exist in story to make the Geth more sympathetic. It allows you to ignore that the Quarian people as a whole don't want this war and the Geth are being controlled by the Reapers. Without it nobody would think twice, if not calculating military strength, about choosing the Quarians over the Geth.
The problem is the decision they seem to be making is one that they give no context to on the Quarian side of the conflict, just the Geth. Which to me is funny since it is something that Bioware hits you over the head with every chance it gets. It is common knowledge in the ME world that synthetics will destroy organics. We find out through the game that the belief is wrong but it is something that is believed none the less. It is something you've been told since ME1 with the Geth and Soveriegn being the enemy, Javik tells you that with his stories about the Metacon War, and the god AI uses it for justification for what it does.
To the Quarians once the first Geth asked "Does this one have a soul?" they wrongly believed there very existence was at stake. Remember, they believe this because everybody KNOWS with certainty that synthetics will wipe out organics. So they did what anybody would do when they think their very life is at stake, they attacked.
Choosing to destroy either race should get massive Renegade points, even if you don't have the option to save them. The only either or that should get you reputation is by destroying the Geth because of the misguided belief that led to the Geth/Quarian War to begin with.
The problem is the decision they seem to be making is one that they give no context to on the Quarian side of the conflict, just the Geth. Which to me is funny since it is something that Bioware hits you over the head with every chance it gets. It is common knowledge in the ME world that synthetics will destroy organics. We find out through the game that the belief is wrong but it is something that is believed none the less. It is something you've been told since ME1 with the Geth and Soveriegn being the enemy, Javik tells you that with his stories about the Metacon War, and the god AI uses it for justification for what it does.
To the Quarians once the first Geth asked "Does this one have a soul?" they wrongly believed there very existence was at stake. Remember, they believe this because everybody KNOWS with certainty that synthetics will wipe out organics. So they did what anybody would do when they think their very life is at stake, they attacked.
Choosing to destroy either race should get massive Renegade points, even if you don't have the option to save them. The only either or that should get you reputation is by destroying the Geth because of the misguided belief that led to the Geth/Quarian War to begin with.
Modifié par razor150, 31 mars 2012 - 05:41 .
#133
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 05:26
Vespervin
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MadRabbit999 wrote...
Vespervin wrote...
I made peace between the Quarians and the Geth. Keelah se'lai.
(although, I wish Legion didn't have to sacrifice itself)
It is funny how ME has a very similar message to the bible over and over. (Legion sacrificing himself to save his people).
Makes me wonder if the writer has strong believes either way, or he just like to use the same mythology behind it.
Also, remember that Mordin named the female Krogan "Eve", because the Normandy was a human ship and he felt it was appropriate to use human mythology. So maybe the writer does take inspiration from the Bible.
#134
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 05:36
Vataxa
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Vespervin wrote...
MadRabbit999 wrote...
Vespervin wrote...
I made peace between the Quarians and the Geth. Keelah se'lai.
(although, I wish Legion didn't have to sacrifice itself)
It is funny how ME has a very similar message to the bible over and over. (Legion sacrificing himself to save his people).
Makes me wonder if the writer has strong believes either way, or he just like to use the same mythology behind it.
Also, remember that Mordin named the female Krogan "Eve", because the Normandy was a human ship and he felt it was appropriate to use human mythology. So maybe the writer does take inspiration from the Bible.
And the whole Shepherd/12 deciples thing lol.
On topic: I did the pece option, couldn't wipe out either.
#135
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 05:51
ChuckNorris18
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I chose the geth looking at the idea from a war perspective. The geth use pure logic, they are as nearly deadly of an enemy as the reapers themselves. They are cold, calculating, and useful allies for the war.
#136
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 05:53
Chaoswind
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All the people saying the geth should leave Ranock seem to forget a major point.
1. Most of the Geth server hubs are in the plannet.
2. The geth decided to stay to clean the wastes left by the morning war (nuclear wastes).
3. The whole dysonsphere in space was their solution to the leaving Rannok to the creators problem.
4. Most of the Geth where already uploaded into the mega server in space when the Quarians attacked and is the only reason the Quarians were winning at the start (Geth got a sucker punch that not only killed a huge number of them, but that also made them stupid).
So yeah I can't blame the Geth for joining the reapers, remember the Quarians forced them into a point they got stupid.
1. Most of the Geth server hubs are in the plannet.
2. The geth decided to stay to clean the wastes left by the morning war (nuclear wastes).
3. The whole dysonsphere in space was their solution to the leaving Rannok to the creators problem.
4. Most of the Geth where already uploaded into the mega server in space when the Quarians attacked and is the only reason the Quarians were winning at the start (Geth got a sucker punch that not only killed a huge number of them, but that also made them stupid).
So yeah I can't blame the Geth for joining the reapers, remember the Quarians forced them into a point they got stupid.
#137
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 07:30
daisekihan
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Serp86 wrote...
daisekihan wrote...
MadRabbit999 wrote...
Saved them both.
Some of the Quarians might be douchbags, but that's not in the majority, also a Geth are no more different than the programs I use at work and home so.. if I had the choice between killing a living creature and all of the copies of Microsoft Windows... I'd kill windows any day
Yeah, because the Office Assistant frequently says stuff like, "It looks like you're writing a letter! You must have soul. Does this paper clip have a soul?"
Its just way more advanced programming. Now its stupid in the first place to allow programs to advance in that far in the first place without any saveguards. And even if he does ask this question who cares ? Would i intentionally destroy it for asking this question ? No i wouldn't . Doesn't mean i would kill an organic beeing to keep it alive either.
However, you said ALL of them. And the fact is, the Quarians did kill them for asking a question. Of course the Geth have the right to self preservation if they have a self preserve. If the Geth are self aware (and they are, when networked together) then killing them is the same as killing a person.
Now, in the real world, it might not even be possible for AI to become self aware in the first place.
#138
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 07:33
daisekihan
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ChuckNorris18 wrote...
I chose the geth looking at the idea from a war perspective. The geth use pure logic, they are as nearly deadly of an enemy as the reapers themselves. They are cold, calculating, and useful allies for the war.
Once the Geth get the Reaper code, I don't think they will be the same cold, calculating entities they were. As EDI says, because they were networked intelligences, they naturally devalued the lives of individuals. With the Reaper code, they are basically a race of EDI's.
#139
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 07:33
I_Jedi
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Saved both, but I want to deck Gerrel for good measure afterwards.
#140
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 07:35
The_Crazy_Hand
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I kill the Geth every time, running to genecidal maniacs = inexcusable.
As Joker points out, they did have extenuating circumstances, but even still.......
As Joker points out, they did have extenuating circumstances, but even still.......
#141
Posté 31 mars 2012 - 07:35
BatmanPWNS
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Cool story bro. I killed the toasters instead and shot the talking toaster.
#142
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 07:46
whalewhisker
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I'm playing a non imported Shepard right now and I'm definitely going to kill those Quarians. 
#143
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 07:52
ticklefist
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Unless Geth can walk up and start telling me their favorite color, lucky number, and most vivid childhood memory they're nothing more than self aware machines. Real people come first. If forced to make a decision, real people should always come first. Mistakes or not.
Modifié par ticklefist, 01 avril 2012 - 07:53 .
#144
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 08:02
STAG IRONHIDE
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Well incase you didn't know OP, you can save both depending on your choices in ME2.
I killed the Quarians though, even though Tali is a pretty space elf (not that it matters, she never takes her damn helmet off :/)
I didn't like how Tali was treating mah bro Legion and the Geth are total bros, they were just questioning their existence and trying to survive and the Quarians decide to launch an all out assualt at the worst possible time to reclaim their ugly rock of a planet...
The Quarian Admirals were making me mad, too. Zaal'Koris is the only Quarian (besides Tali) that I felt bad about betraying and agreed with.
I absolutely HATE Admiral Daro'Xen vas Moreh, I wanted to call Javik in and take him up on his offer of throwing someone out of the airlock. Never before did doing a renegade interrupt feel so good.
I killed the Quarians though, even though Tali is a pretty space elf (not that it matters, she never takes her damn helmet off :/)
I didn't like how Tali was treating mah bro Legion and the Geth are total bros, they were just questioning their existence and trying to survive and the Quarians decide to launch an all out assualt at the worst possible time to reclaim their ugly rock of a planet...
The Quarian Admirals were making me mad, too. Zaal'Koris is the only Quarian (besides Tali) that I felt bad about betraying and agreed with.
I absolutely HATE Admiral Daro'Xen vas Moreh, I wanted to call Javik in and take him up on his offer of throwing someone out of the airlock. Never before did doing a renegade interrupt feel so good.
#145
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 08:05
STAG IRONHIDE
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Welsh Inferno wrote...
Sparatus wrote...
Rogue Unit wrote...
And the quarians attack Rannoch in a desperate attempt to relcaim it is a stupid move on their part. The Geth have every right to reside on Rannoch as the quarians do.
Correct.
Both species are morons.
People here will never understand that.
If you don't atleast try to save both then you are being idiotic and extremely petty.
How are the Geth idiots? They are just trying to survive...
The_Crazy_Hand wrote...
I kill the Geth every time, running to genecidal maniacs = inexcusable.
As Joker points out, they did have extenuating circumstances, but even still.......
Oh boy... I don't think you know what genocidal means...
Modifié par STAG IRONHIDE, 01 avril 2012 - 08:07 .
#146
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 08:05
PsyrenY
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Note that if you do plan on killing the Quarians it might be a good idea to have rewritten the heretics in ME2.
#147
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 08:07
noobcannon
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Pottumuusi wrote...
There is a special place in hell for people who didn't take the peace option.
It's in the same corner as the people who shot Mordin.
#148
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 08:09
Rogue Unit
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STAG IRONHIDE wrote...
Welsh Inferno wrote...
Sparatus wrote...
Rogue Unit wrote...
And the quarians attack Rannoch in a desperate attempt to relcaim it is a stupid move on their part. The Geth have every right to reside on Rannoch as the quarians do.
Correct.
Both species are morons.
People here will never understand that.
If you don't atleast try to save both then you are being idiotic and extremely petty.
How are the Geth idiots? They are just trying to survive...
Turning to the Reaper was a mistake, but some believe the Geth are "idiots" for not giving up Rannoch, their homeworld, to prevent a quarian attack in the first place.
I don't get it either.
#149
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 08:11
Conquerthecity
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I chose peace. But if I hadn't, I would have chosen the Quarians. Ignoring the endings, the Quarians would be better for galactic stability.
#150
Posté 01 avril 2012 - 08:12
LittleTito
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We should have had an option to walk up to Han'Garrel, pull a gun to his head, blow his brains out then turn to Tali and say, "Well, congratulations Tali. You're an Admiral with a fleet now."
