494 réponses à ce sujet

[Iconoclaste]

Dava Flava wrote...

Maybe we should argue the existence of God instead. We might reach consensus quicker.

lol

[Evil Minion]

METALPUNKS wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

METALPUNKS wrote...
It just shows how pathetic people are by accusing someone of trolling because they don't agree with it. Those same people don't deserve a good ending for that reason. You mean to us and can hash it out but you can't take it when we give it to you.

Interesting. Nobody's been "mean" here. We have asked for explanations and justifications with more substance than "you don't get it" and "it's over your head" and continually been accused of being unreasonable merely because we want you to make a case for the quality of the endings.
You yourself have been increasingly rude as time has gone by, and continually ignored any challenge to the few assertions you have made. Reflect upon your own attitude before criticising ours.

I'll admit I have been getting more and more angry. It's because I'm getting no respect. Oh and you people suck! Get over it. I know I need to. You just hate the fact that the ending is something you can't get. It bothers you so much that you have to be rude to me. Us few ending lovers can only take so much before we blow up. Some can handle it but I cannot. You make me sick to my stomach and many of you need to find yourselves spiritually. If I get kicked for that then let it be that. I won't know because in taking a break from all this bull crap and I'm going to play the heck out of a game that has one of the best endings ever written. You think the fans deserve better, after seeing everything I saw in the last 24 hours I think Bioware deserves more from their fans. You just threw them out when they didn't make this crazy elaborate ending. Sometimes this is the way it has to be, and that's a good thing.

Please, calm down.

I'm a veteran of internet debates, but I admit I'm also getting tired of being called a troll and a hipster just because I didn't hate the ending.

But be careful not to show others the same disrespect they show you, no matter how peeved you get. The people who didn't like the ending probably "got it," they just don't care for the structure or the storytelling conventions utilized.

It's the assumption that they don't "get it" is what has people angry.

[0ts0]

"Harbinger: Godchild, what does the scouter say about Shepard's war assets?
Godchild: IT'S OVER 9000!
Harbinger: What!? 9000!?"

Well, the endings doesn't follow the previous red thread from the game nor within context of the lore that Bioware has set.

[Caz Tirin]

Evil Minion wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dava Flava wrote...

Let me try to explain something that applies to both the ME3 endings and how people interact on forums like this....

Communication, in any form, whether it's spoken, written, or otherwise, is only successful when the speaker/author's intended meaning is interpreted correctly by the listener/audience. If communication is not successful, then some sort of miscommunication has occurred. When someone doesn't "get it," that likely means that either the author's intention was not communicated effectively or that the audience misinterpreted the author's intention... or both.

That's the real issue here with the ME3 ending (and with the miscommunication around what "get it" could mean). And, it's probably a bit of both. While I enjoy the endings and think Bioware crafted a sound and fulfilling open-ended conclusion, it's clear many fans didn't see it that way.

I'm not trying to discredit their opinions, but if the anti-enders need some sort of explanation why the endings are adequate, all I can really offer as a solution is play through it again but try to keep an open mind. Ask yourself, "What if the endings don't suck?" I don't think hearing someone else's reasons for enjoying the ending will convince anyone that it was even ok.

For the 500,000th time, if you CHOOSE to like the endings, that's your decision.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEFEND THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE THEM.

What you do have to explain is their quality, because they are objectively bad. I have played them, I have seen them, they are bad. And not a single one of you can adequately explain why they are not.
I have repeatedly asked for any logical justification for the Normandy scene (one single scene) and gotten none.

And I'm still waiting for someone to offer objective, physical, empirical evidence that the endings were "bad," which no one on this forum has hitherto been able to do.

To add to the multiple other posts giving you evidence, here's the 40 minute video that has been mentioned earlier in this thread:
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Caz Tirin, 31 mars 2012 - 07:30 .

[Bob3terd]

right just to reiterate again as this tread poped up in the last hour gunna say might be april the 1st where op is

[T-0pel]

METALPUNKS wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

METALPUNKS wrote...
It just shows how pathetic people are by accusing someone of trolling because they don't agree with it. Those same people don't deserve a good ending for that reason. You mean to us and can hash it out but you can't take it when we give it to you.

Interesting. Nobody's been "mean" here. We have asked for explanations and justifications with more substance than "you don't get it" and "it's over your head" and continually been accused of being unreasonable merely because we want you to make a case for the quality of the endings.
You yourself have been increasingly rude as time has gone by, and continually ignored any challenge to the few assertions you have made. Reflect upon your own attitude before criticising ours.

I'll admit I have been getting more and more angry. It's because I'm getting no respect. Oh and you people suck! Get over it. I know I need to. You just hate the fact that the ending is something you can't get. It bothers you so much that you have to be rude to me. Us few ending lovers can only take so much before we blow up. Some can handle it but I cannot. You make me sick to my stomach and many of you need to find yourselves spiritually. If I get kicked for that then let it be that. I won't know because in taking a break from all this bull crap and I'm going to play the heck out of a game that has one of the best endings ever written. You think the fans deserve better, after seeing everything I saw in the last 24 hours I think Bioware deserves more from their fans. You just threw them out when they didn't make this crazy elaborate ending. Sometimes this is the way it has to be, and that's a good thing.

I am sorry you feel this way, but this is exactly as I felt after watching all 3 ME3 endings... But seriously if you like the endings because of the meaning you see behind it, why do you have to say we are not able to "get it"? I think I "get" what you see but I still dont like it, I like facts not some pseudo psychological-religion allegories. And the whole series up until now provided facts, be it in conversation or in codex. That is why I feel the ending does not belong in this type of game.

[Evil Minion]

Quietness wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dava Flava wrote...

Let me try to explain something that applies to both the ME3 endings and how people interact on forums like this....

Communication, in any form, whether it's spoken, written, or otherwise, is only successful when the speaker/author's intended meaning is interpreted correctly by the listener/audience. If communication is not successful, then some sort of miscommunication has occurred. When someone doesn't "get it," that likely means that either the author's intention was not communicated effectively or that the audience misinterpreted the author's intention... or both.

That's the real issue here with the ME3 ending (and with the miscommunication around what "get it" could mean). And, it's probably a bit of both. While I enjoy the endings and think Bioware crafted a sound and fulfilling open-ended conclusion, it's clear many fans didn't see it that way.

I'm not trying to discredit their opinions, but if the anti-enders need some sort of explanation why the endings are adequate, all I can really offer as a solution is play through it again but try to keep an open mind. Ask yourself, "What if the endings don't suck?" I don't think hearing someone else's reasons for enjoying the ending will convince anyone that it was even ok.

For the 500,000th time, if you CHOOSE to like the endings, that's your decision.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEFEND THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE THEM.

What you do have to explain is their quality, because they are objectively bad. I have played them, I have seen them, they are bad. And not a single one of you can adequately explain why they are not.
I have repeatedly asked for any logical justification for the Normandy scene (one single scene) and gotten none.

And I'm still waiting for someone to offer objective, physical, empirical evidence that the endings were "bad," which no one on this forum has hitherto been able to do.

you are blind?

No.

I'm just waiting for someone to provide empirical, physical, repeatable evidence that there's a universal, objective, measurable standard of "badness" that applies to the ME3 endings.

We can produce physical evidence that dinosaurs existed. Can we do the same for "badness?"

Modifié par Evil Minion, 31 mars 2012 - 07:33 .

[piemanz]

Glad you liked it OP, but you can't say that around here because apprently it's classed as trolling.

[The Angry One]

Evil Minion wrote...

No,

I'm just waiting for some one to provide empirical, physical, repeatable evidence that there's a universal, objective, measurable standard of "badness" that applies to the ME3 endings.

We can produce physical evidence that dinosaurs existed. Can we do the same for "badness?"

You are being deliberately obtuse. Numerous people have provided links. I provided a small list on the last page.

[Bob3terd]

piemanz wrote...

Glad you liked it OP, but you can't say that around here because apprently it's classed as trolling.

When its condescending yes, when some one says they like it good for them, when some one says we just dont "get it" then its trolling

[T-0pel]

Evil Minion wrote...

No.

I'm just waiting for someone to provide empirical, physical, repeatable evidence that there's a universal, objective, measurable standard of "badness" that applies to the ME3 endings.

We can produce physical evidence that dinosaurs existed. Can we do the same for "badness?"

Did you read what I wrote?

[The Angry One]

piemanz wrote...

Glad you liked it OP, but you can't say that around here because apprently it's classed as trolling.

I don't know why I keep expecting someone to make a logical argument for why the ending is as clever as you think it is rather than self-professed martyrdom.

[Hexley UK]

Evil Minion wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dava Flava wrote...

Let me try to explain something that applies to both the ME3 endings and how people interact on forums like this....

Communication, in any form, whether it's spoken, written, or otherwise, is only successful when the speaker/author's intended meaning is interpreted correctly by the listener/audience. If communication is not successful, then some sort of miscommunication has occurred. When someone doesn't "get it," that likely means that either the author's intention was not communicated effectively or that the audience misinterpreted the author's intention... or both.

That's the real issue here with the ME3 ending (and with the miscommunication around what "get it" could mean). And, it's probably a bit of both. While I enjoy the endings and think Bioware crafted a sound and fulfilling open-ended conclusion, it's clear many fans didn't see it that way.

I'm not trying to discredit their opinions, but if the anti-enders need some sort of explanation why the endings are adequate, all I can really offer as a solution is play through it again but try to keep an open mind. Ask yourself, "What if the endings don't suck?" I don't think hearing someone else's reasons for enjoying the ending will convince anyone that it was even ok.

For the 500,000th time, if you CHOOSE to like the endings, that's your decision.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEFEND THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE THEM.

What you do have to explain is their quality, because they are objectively bad. I have played them, I have seen them, they are bad. And not a single one of you can adequately explain why they are not.
I have repeatedly asked for any logical justification for the Normandy scene (one single scene) and gotten none.

And I'm still waiting for someone to offer objective, physical, empirical evidence that the endings were "bad," which no one on this forum has hitherto been able to do.

you are blind?

No.

I'm just waiting for someone to provide empirical, physical, repeatable evidence that there's a universal, objective, measurable standard of "badness" that applies to the ME3 endings.

We can produce physical evidence that dinosaurs existed. Can we do the same for "badness?"

Yes the rules of story telling, which this ending completely violates........that fact makes it full of "badness"

[Quietness]

Evil Minion wrote...

Quietness wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dava Flava wrote...

Let me try to explain something that applies to both the ME3 endings and how people interact on forums like this....

Communication, in any form, whether it's spoken, written, or otherwise, is only successful when the speaker/author's intended meaning is interpreted correctly by the listener/audience. If communication is not successful, then some sort of miscommunication has occurred. When someone doesn't "get it," that likely means that either the author's intention was not communicated effectively or that the audience misinterpreted the author's intention... or both.

That's the real issue here with the ME3 ending (and with the miscommunication around what "get it" could mean). And, it's probably a bit of both. While I enjoy the endings and think Bioware crafted a sound and fulfilling open-ended conclusion, it's clear many fans didn't see it that way.

I'm not trying to discredit their opinions, but if the anti-enders need some sort of explanation why the endings are adequate, all I can really offer as a solution is play through it again but try to keep an open mind. Ask yourself, "What if the endings don't suck?" I don't think hearing someone else's reasons for enjoying the ending will convince anyone that it was even ok.

For the 500,000th time, if you CHOOSE to like the endings, that's your decision.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEFEND THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE THEM.

What you do have to explain is their quality, because they are objectively bad. I have played them, I have seen them, they are bad. And not a single one of you can adequately explain why they are not.
I have repeatedly asked for any logical justification for the Normandy scene (one single scene) and gotten none.

And I'm still waiting for someone to offer objective, physical, empirical evidence that the endings were "bad," which no one on this forum has hitherto been able to do.

you are blind?

No.

I'm just waiting for someone to provide empirical, physical, repeatable evidence that there's a universal, objective, measurable standard of "badness" that applies to the ME3 endings.

We can produce physical evidence that dinosaurs existed. Can we do the same for "badness?"

I provided a few examples inside of the context of the game word and using basic accept conventions of writing to show exactly why the ending was bad. A plothole in general is a bad thing widely accepted all conventions of writing, how many plotholes can you fill without resorting to opinon?

[Fliprot]

Gemini1179 wrote...

Dava Flava wrote...

Anyways, I just thought you'd like to hear that not everyone missed the point of your conclusion to Shepard's story.

So people like you keep saying. Care to enlighten the rest of us?

This.

[Hexley UK]

The Angry One wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Glad you liked it OP, but you can't say that around here because apprently it's classed as trolling.

I don't know why I keep expecting someone to make a logical argument for why the ending is as clever as you think it is rather than self-professed martyrdom.

Pro-enders, say they like it then can't/won't explain why (or are unable to coherently) and then wonder why people assume they are trolling......

[The Angry One]

Hexley UK wrote...

Yes the rules of story telling, which this ending completely violates........that fact makes it full of "badness"

No no no there are no rules now apparently, because Evil Minion says so.
It's art! How can you criticise art!

[Evil Minion]

Caz Tirin wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dava Flava wrote...

Let me try to explain something that applies to both the ME3 endings and how people interact on forums like this....

Communication, in any form, whether it's spoken, written, or otherwise, is only successful when the speaker/author's intended meaning is interpreted correctly by the listener/audience. If communication is not successful, then some sort of miscommunication has occurred. When someone doesn't "get it," that likely means that either the author's intention was not communicated effectively or that the audience misinterpreted the author's intention... or both.

That's the real issue here with the ME3 ending (and with the miscommunication around what "get it" could mean). And, it's probably a bit of both. While I enjoy the endings and think Bioware crafted a sound and fulfilling open-ended conclusion, it's clear many fans didn't see it that way.

I'm not trying to discredit their opinions, but if the anti-enders need some sort of explanation why the endings are adequate, all I can really offer as a solution is play through it again but try to keep an open mind. Ask yourself, "What if the endings don't suck?" I don't think hearing someone else's reasons for enjoying the ending will convince anyone that it was even ok.

For the 500,000th time, if you CHOOSE to like the endings, that's your decision.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEFEND THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE THEM.

What you do have to explain is their quality, because they are objectively bad. I have played them, I have seen them, they are bad. And not a single one of you can adequately explain why they are not.
I have repeatedly asked for any logical justification for the Normandy scene (one single scene) and gotten none.

And I'm still waiting for someone to offer objective, physical, empirical evidence that the endings were "bad," which no one on this forum has hitherto been able to do.

To add to the multiple other posts giving you evidence, here's the 40 minute video that has been mentioned earlier in this thread:
www.youtube.com/watch

That's "evidence" of someone's subjective interpretation of the ending.

I can do the same thing in my British literature class when writting a paper on Shakespeare.

But it's still just a subjective interpretation.

Where's the empirical, scientific evidence that objectively "proves" the endings were "bad?" What are the measurable, physical properties of "badness?"

[Velocithon]

Okay guys. It's okay.

No one read Evil Minions posts anymore. He's a troll.

Evil Minion, people are giving you examples and links left and right giving you what you want. You refuse to acknowledge them and insist that no one is giving you evidence.

Have a good day.

[Hexley UK]

The Angry One wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Yes the rules of story telling, which this ending completely violates........that fact makes it full of "badness"

No no no there are no rules now apparently, because Evil Minion says so.
It's art! How can you criticise art!

It isn't art obviously BUT lets ask an ART CRITIC what he thinks about criticising real art........omg paradox!!!!11:O

[Wolven_Soul]

I am glad you like it, but I disagree with you whole heartedly.

[Quietness]

Evil Minion wrote...

Caz Tirin wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dava Flava wrote...

Let me try to explain something that applies to both the ME3 endings and how people interact on forums like this....

Communication, in any form, whether it's spoken, written, or otherwise, is only successful when the speaker/author's intended meaning is interpreted correctly by the listener/audience. If communication is not successful, then some sort of miscommunication has occurred. When someone doesn't "get it," that likely means that either the author's intention was not communicated effectively or that the audience misinterpreted the author's intention... or both.

That's the real issue here with the ME3 ending (and with the miscommunication around what "get it" could mean). And, it's probably a bit of both. While I enjoy the endings and think Bioware crafted a sound and fulfilling open-ended conclusion, it's clear many fans didn't see it that way.

I'm not trying to discredit their opinions, but if the anti-enders need some sort of explanation why the endings are adequate, all I can really offer as a solution is play through it again but try to keep an open mind. Ask yourself, "What if the endings don't suck?" I don't think hearing someone else's reasons for enjoying the ending will convince anyone that it was even ok.

For the 500,000th time, if you CHOOSE to like the endings, that's your decision.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEFEND THE FACT THAT YOU LIKE THEM.

What you do have to explain is their quality, because they are objectively bad. I have played them, I have seen them, they are bad. And not a single one of you can adequately explain why they are not.
I have repeatedly asked for any logical justification for the Normandy scene (one single scene) and gotten none.

And I'm still waiting for someone to offer objective, physical, empirical evidence that the endings were "bad," which no one on this forum has hitherto been able to do.

To add to the multiple other posts giving you evidence, here's the 40 minute video that has been mentioned earlier in this thread:
www.youtube.com/watch

That's "evidence" of someone's subjective interpretation of the ending.

I can do the same thing in my British literature class when writting a paper on Shakespeare.

But it's still just a subjective interpretation.

Where's the empirical, scientific evidence that objectively "proves" the endings were "bad?" What are the measurable, physical properties of "badness?"

You do realize you've gone from arguing facts to arguing semantics. You've basically just admitted you have no way to back yourself up....

[The Angry One]

Hexley UK wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Glad you liked it OP, but you can't say that around here because apprently it's classed as trolling.

I don't know why I keep expecting someone to make a logical argument for why the ending is as clever as you think it is rather than self-professed martyrdom.

Pro-enders, say they like it then can't/won't explain why (or are unable to coherently) and then wonder why people assume they are trolling......

Pro-ender: "I liked the ending."

Others: "I'm happy for you, can you say why you liked it?"

Pro-ender: "Because it's clever and spiritual. Obviously this went over your head."

Others: "That's not an answer. Why did it go over our heads?"

Pro-ender: "I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHY YOU'D JUST BE MEAN. STOP TRAMPLING ON MY FREEDOMS."

[Evil Minion]

The Angry One wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Yes the rules of story telling, which this ending completely violates........that fact makes it full of "badness"

No no no there are no rules now apparently, because Evil Minion says so.
It's art! How can you criticise art!

And why should I believe they exist?

Because The Angry One says so?

And I never said you can't criticize "art." Criticize all you want, but's it's all just opinions. Opinions are not facts, no matter how often they're repeated or how strongly you feel about them.

[The Angry One]

Velocithon wrote...

Okay guys. It's okay.

No one read Evil Minions posts anymore. He's a troll.

Evil Minion, people are giving you examples and links left and right giving you what you want. You refuse to acknowledge them and insist that no one is giving you evidence.

Have a good day.

Agreed.