494 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

The Angry One wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I'm glad people on this forum are able to have differing opinions. Oh wait....

Stop playing the opinion card.
When someone declares the ending is over our heads, that ceases to be an opinion and becomes a point of debate.

Be the mature one and move on?

I enjoy debating, and would genuinely like to know what is it that some pro-enders think "we don't get".
I have yet to recieve an answer.

 The original poster never said you don't get it, in fact he said he's glad bioware is going to help the disappointed fans. What is there to debate?

[The Angry One]

Velocithon wrote...

I'll give my take on what pro-enders see:

They see Shepard making the ultimate sacrifice. They see the Relays being destroyed and that all civilizations have to start over again because they weren't ready to truly respect the technology that was given to them (such as by building Geth and exterminating themselves). The destruction of the relays was a new beginning, free from technology. They see the Normandy crash landing and Joker living out his life happily.

What I do think though is the majority of the pro-enders have never played ME1 or ME2. I can totally see how someone not playing those games might like the ending.

However as a ME veteran, all I see are the flaws that have been listed countless times and wish for what should have been.

You may be right, I'd further say that they refuse to think about it, because when you actually think about the ending the cracks appear and overwhelm any symbolism the writers were apparently going for.
Many pro-enders have debated end up presenting their headcanon as fact, which is what leads me to this conclusion, they take the basic concept (Shepard sacrifices their life to stop the Reapers) and make up their own ending from that.

[Wolven_Soul]

METALPUNKS wrote...

BaridBelBar wrote...

Obvious troll is obvious.

Of course that's all you can say. 
   


OP: I'm happy for you. I got it also. I loved it. For some people this is not ok. They want us to hate it. I started a thread about loving the ending and now I wish I would of jumped of a cliff instead. Hopefully your thread gets better response but as you can see above that isn't going to be the case. I hope you have hard skin because it's coming, trust me. Anyway it's awesome other people got it. Bioware truly did an amazing job. It's one of my favorite endings in a long long time. It was simple, perfect, spiritual and far from horrible. 

It is not that we think it is not okay, it just that all of you people coming here and stating that you think that the ending is beautiful, clever, spiritual, awesome etc, never are able to explain why it is that you like it.  They just come on and prostrate themselves on the altar of Bioware. 

[T-0pel]

Saint Op wrote...

yep this is true to form & by the book...
Lets argue about what ,what really means...

retake while it started fine & I can understand what they were going for ...now has several branches that have gone off on their own to do unspeakable things.
They spout the doctrine as if it is fact and it can be no other way...this is our "proof" look...no it is not proof ,it is talking points approved by the mob...they are not "true" nor "unsubjective"...
You cant ask for a opinion & say it is wrong because of my opinion & mine has a video....propaganda films do not make things truth...

:-( Come on... That is not true, I just dont want people to tell me I dont "get it". You can say: "Yeah I thing it was beautiful I think it was a symbol of ultimate sacrifice and where other see nothing I see hope" That is perfectle ok. But if you say it was perfect and "haterz just dont get it" that is something different.

[Quietness]

Evil Minion wrote...

Quietness wrote...

You do realize you've gone from arguing facts to arguing semantics. You've basically just admitted you have no way to back yourself up....

No, I didn't.

People are claiming their subjective interpretations are objective facts and can be "proven." People have claimed that "art" can be "objectively good" or "objectively bad."

If it's objective, then you should be able to provide physical, repeatable, measurable, empirical evidence of this "fact."

That's what "objective" means.

This is the difference between "science" and "art." Science is objective; "art" is not. Whether something is "good" or "bad" is not "objective" as "goodness" and "badness" have no metric. The existence of hydrogen atoms is objective. Whether ME3 endings are good or bad is not. Gravity is objective. Whether ME3 endings were good or bad is not. That 1+1=2 is objective. Whether ME3 endings are good or bad is not.

Teehee, you are attempting to argue semantics and change the debate points. Its quite possibly the cutest attempt ive seen in the past weeks. Good on you ^^

[The Angry One]

Eterna5 wrote...

 The original poster never said you don't get it, in fact he said he's glad bioware is going to help the disappointed fans. What is there to debate?

Others in this thread have, repeatedly. The OP also refused to answer the questions I directed at them.

[Eterna]

The Angry One wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 The original poster never said you don't get it, in fact he said he's glad bioware is going to help the disappointed fans. What is there to debate?

Others in this thread have, repeatedly. The OP also refused to answer the questions I directed at them.

 He probably doesn't feel the need to explain himself to you.

[Zan_Vaelius]

The Angry One wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I'm glad people on this forum are able to have differing opinions. Oh wait....

Stop playing the opinion card.
When someone declares the ending is over our heads, that ceases to be an opinion and becomes a point of debate.

Be the mature one and move on?

I enjoy debating, and would genuinely like to know what is it that some pro-enders think "we don't get".
I have yet to recieve an answer.

Couple of the pages back I made a response to that.
Essentially according to Semiotics getting the story is an individual thing based on our background ie. stories we read, our life situation, history, personal expectation etc. The best example here would be "Waiting for Godot" which is essentially a story about nothing. Everybody interprets it his own personal way which he gets and others maybe do and maybe do not. There was an experiment made that they played Waiting for Godot to a bunch of prisoners who interpretted is a story about prisoners waiting for their sentences to end. 
In other words there is no right or wrong way of getting a story, though sometimes misinterpretation are possible.

[The Angry One]

Eterna5 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 The original poster never said you don't get it, in fact he said he's glad bioware is going to help the disappointed fans. What is there to debate?

Others in this thread have, repeatedly. The OP also refused to answer the questions I directed at them.

 He probably doesn't feel the need to explain himself to you.

You mean like I'm explaining myself to you? You're right, I shouldn't feel the need to either, good day.

[T-0pel]

The Angry One wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

I'll give my take on what pro-enders see:

They see Shepard making the ultimate sacrifice. They see the Relays being destroyed and that all civilizations have to start over again because they weren't ready to truly respect the technology that was given to them (such as by building Geth and exterminating themselves). The destruction of the relays was a new beginning, free from technology. They see the Normandy crash landing and Joker living out his life happily.

What I do think though is the majority of the pro-enders have never played ME1 or ME2. I can totally see how someone not playing those games might like the ending.

However as a ME veteran, all I see are the flaws that have been listed countless times and wish for what should have been.

You may be right, I'd further say that they refuse to think about it, because when you actually think about the ending the cracks appear and overwhelm any symbolism the writers were apparently going for.
Many pro-enders have debated end up presenting their headcanon as fact, which is what leads me to this conclusion, they take the basic concept (Shepard sacrifices their life to stop the Reapers) and make up their own ending from that.

Yeah but what he wrote is still at least some sort of opinion. If people who like the ending chose to ignore the plot holes because of the "bigger picture" than that is a valid opinion. But they should not say there is nothing wrong with the endings or that we dont get it, that is just stupid.

[Reverse Centaur]

Eterna5 wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I'm glad people on this forum are able to have differing opinions. Oh wait....

Yea the problem with that is when 95% hate the ending and only 5% like it your not gonna see much "differing opinions".

So because the majority dislikes something someone who disagrees is wrong and must be purged by verbal diarrhea? 

It's not really the majority, just the majority on Bioware forums. The cult just enjoys making a lot of noise because things didn't turn out how they preferred.

[Mesmurae]

I envy you OP. It must be so nice to be able to ignore glaring plot holes.

[The Angry One]

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

Couple of the pages back I made a response to that.
Essentially according to Semiotics getting the story is an individual thing based on our background ie. stories we read, our life situation, history, personal expectation etc. The best example here would be "Waiting for Godot" which is essentially a story about nothing. Everybody interprets it his own personal way which he gets and others maybe do and maybe do not. There was an experiment made that they played Waiting for Godot to a bunch of prisoners who interpretted is a story about prisoners waiting for their sentences to end. 
In other words there is no right or wrong way of getting a story, though sometimes misinterpretation are possible.

Mass Effect has never been a story left open to interpretation, so if you believe that ME3's ending is such (I don't believe it is, it is just badly put together) then it has failed.

[iamthedave3]

The Angry One wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Glad you liked it OP, but you can't say that around here because apprently it's classed as trolling.

I don't know why I keep expecting someone to make a logical argument for why the ending is as clever as you think it is rather than self-professed martyrdom.

Pro-enders, say they like it then can't/won't explain why (or are unable to coherently) and then wonder why people assume they are trolling......

Pro-ender: "I liked the ending."

Others: "I'm happy for you, can you say why you liked it?"

Pro-ender: "Because it's clever and spiritual. Obviously this went over your head."

Others: "That's not an answer. Why did it go over our heads?"

Pro-ender: "I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHY YOU'D JUST BE MEAN. STOP TRAMPLING ON MY FREEDOMS."

Sadly that is often how these threads go, in a rather simplified way.

In fairness to the OP, though, I don't believe he was intending to troll and has been pretty reasonable throughout.

The thing which remains laughable, though, is this repeated assertion that anyone doesn't 'get' the endings. Guys, do you honestly think these are deep? REALLY?

The endings of ME 3 are about as deep as a toddler's bath. They try to be deep, you can see with every pretentious line of dialogue that they are trying desperately to be deep. And they're not, because the series itself isn't deep. It's had its elements. The Genophage arc in general was very well handled, as was the Quarian/Geth conflict. But the main plotline has always been shallow action movie fare.

The ending of ME 3 is directly comparable to Matrix Reloaded; an 11th hour twist to add complexity and make the viewer walk away going 'huh?', a threadbare effort to get people talking so the developers can feel they made something clever, because surely people only talk about clever things.

The problem is that it's so artlessly constructed that it's obvious what Bioware is trying to do, there are no deep messages to tweak out of the fabric of the narrative, and the harder you examine it - in other words, what these endings are trying to make people do as opposed to what they've made us actually do - the more you discover holes and inconsistencies.

It's a fundamental error of genre. Action movies don't rely on rock solid, deep plotting, they rely on entertainment that makes you not want to think about the plot. The plot is there to be not so stupid it gets in the way, and just interesting enough to get you invested in the action. That's the main plotline of Mass Effect.

The interesting stuff has always been the missions on the way and the side quests, and that's just as true with ME 3.

[Eterna]

The Angry One wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 The original poster never said you don't get it, in fact he said he's glad bioware is going to help the disappointed fans. What is there to debate?

Others in this thread have, repeatedly. The OP also refused to answer the questions I directed at them.

 He probably doesn't feel the need to explain himself to you.

You mean like I'm explaining myself to you? You're right, I shouldn't feel the need to either, good day.

 I'm not trying to be rude. Sorry if I came off that way.

[Wolven_Soul]

Tazzmission wrote...

Caz Tirin wrote...

I see a lot of anti-enders asking the pro-enders "What did you like and what did you 'get' about the ending?" And I've yet to see a single answer to that question. I wonder why we, the anti-enders, think you're trolling?

or maybe you know the anti enders just dont like what the pro enders have to say because no matter what is said we are told we are wrong


thats a fact and you know it

i have given multiple explinations myself and you know what? same crap everyday by the vocal crowd


they can insult people so much before people get tired of it 

I am sorry, but that is crap.  I have seen plenty of people being respectful towards pro enders.  That, and the pro enders have been just as rude as the retakers.  You just see more rude retakers because there are more of us.  It's a thing of proportion.

I have seen people express themselves well about liking it, but I have yet to see a truly good explanation by a pro ender that adequately deals with all the flaws in the ending.

[Velocithon]

The Angry One wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

I'll give my take on what pro-enders see:

They see Shepard making the ultimate sacrifice. They see the Relays being destroyed and that all civilizations have to start over again because they weren't ready to truly respect the technology that was given to them (such as by building Geth and exterminating themselves). The destruction of the relays was a new beginning, free from technology. They see the Normandy crash landing and Joker living out his life happily.

What I do think though is the majority of the pro-enders have never played ME1 or ME2. I can totally see how someone not playing those games might like the ending.

However as a ME veteran, all I see are the flaws that have been listed countless times and wish for what should have been.

You may be right, I'd further say that they refuse to think about it, because when you actually think about the ending the cracks appear and overwhelm any symbolism the writers were apparently going for.
Many pro-enders have debated end up presenting their headcanon as fact, which is what leads me to this conclusion, they take the basic concept (Shepard sacrifices their life to stop the Reapers) and make up their own ending from that.

Exactly. I'll be honest, I thought like that at first. But the more I thought about it (speculated ), and realized all the holes and inconsistencies and what was not put into the game that really should have been...I then realized what a crappy half-assed job Bioware did.

I get see the symbolism that Bioware was perhaps trying to convey. But this was not a game for that. This is a game that people put so much time and feeling into. They deserve to reap the rewards. The ending didn't do that the slightest. 

[The Angry One]

T-0pel wrote...

Yeah but what he wrote is still at least some sort of opinion. If people who like the ending chose to ignore the plot holes because of the "bigger picture" than that is a valid opinion. But they should not say there is nothing wrong with the endings or that we dont get it, that is just stupid.

Of course it's a valid opinion, if they want to like the ending based on their, more power to them.
But as you say, declaring that the endings are perfect is just wrong.

[Shaigunjoe]

+1 for awesome ending!

[Hexley UK]

Reverse Centaur wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I'm glad people on this forum are able to have differing opinions. Oh wait....

Yea the problem with that is when 95% hate the ending and only 5% like it your not gonna see much "differing opinions".

So because the majority dislikes something someone who disagrees is wrong and must be purged by verbal diarrhea? 

It's not really the majority, just the majority on Bioware forums. The cult just enjoys making a lot of noise because things didn't turn out how they preferred.

Uh huh....hope that glaring disability to look facts in the face see's you through.

[StarcloudSWG]

Awesomely BAD, maybe.

[weltraumhamster89]

pablosplinter wrote...

Glad you enjoyed it. I wish I could have

Same here, congrats for you.

[ibench1000lbs]

Velocithon wrote...

I'll give my take on what pro-enders see:

They see Shepard making the ultimate sacrifice. They see the Relays being destroyed and that all civilizations have to start over again because they weren't ready to truly respect the technology that was given to them (such as by building Geth and exterminating themselves). The destruction of the relays was a new beginning, free from technology. They see the Normandy crash landing and Joker living out his life happily.

What I do think though is the majority of the pro-enders have never played ME1 or ME2. I can totally see how someone not playing those games might like the ending.

However as a ME veteran, all I see are the flaws that have been listed countless times and wish for what should have been.

That makes sense. Taken at face value by itself, ME3's ending isn't great but it isn't horrible. It's only when you add in the other two games and take into consideration what happened and what was said then is when the ending looks like..you know.

So anyone who has played all three want to give their reasons as to why they think they ending was good?

[Caz Tirin]

Reverse Centaur wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

I'm glad people on this forum are able to have differing opinions. Oh wait....

Yea the problem with that is when 95% hate the ending and only 5% like it your not gonna see much "differing opinions".

So because the majority dislikes something someone who disagrees is wrong and must be purged by verbal diarrhea? 

It's not really the majority, just the majority on Bioware forums. The cult just enjoys making a lot of noise because things didn't turn out how they preferred.

Awww  How cute!  Now the people with evidence based in logic and that keep asking for one simple question to be answered are being called a cult.

It's also the majority outside the BW forums.  To the point that major media has taken an interest.  That's far from "just the majority on Bioware forums".

[The Angry One]

Eterna5 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

 The original poster never said you don't get it, in fact he said he's glad bioware is going to help the disappointed fans. What is there to debate?

Others in this thread have, repeatedly. The OP also refused to answer the questions I directed at them.

 He probably doesn't feel the need to explain himself to you.

You mean like I'm explaining myself to you? You're right, I shouldn't feel the need to either, good day.

 I'm not trying to be rude. Sorry if I came off that way.

I have a snarky way of speaking, I really don't bear any ill-will to anyone, you can ask anyone I've yelled at then given my face codes to.