494 réponses à ce sujet

[Russalka]

Wouldn't it be so much easier if people were more relaxed about differing opinions? That does not mean one shouldn't offer counter-points though.

[Gemini1179]

The Normandy SR2 is said, in ME2's codex to not be able to land on a planet due to its mass. Hence the need for the Kodiak shuttle.

Personally, since 'imagining' why the Normandy ends up where it is seems to be the argument du jour, I'll give my theory on what 'could' have happened that would at least not have left me so damn confused about the whole thing:

-If your Effective Military Strength was high enough, your ground team survived Harbinger's attack and stumble their way to the control platform to find Anderson and TIM's body. If you LI is there, they look around in panic and say "Shepard? Shepard?!" while the other team member goes over to check on Anderson. *EDI, having monitored comms has broken off from the main fleet and led Joker and the Normandy to the platform in the Citadel but the Normandy can't get close enough so calls a Kodiak from the surface that arrives with the rest of your ground team. They want to be with Shepard at the Catalyst after all- that is their mission. The Kodiak gets to the edge and opens the door to have some of your squad (presumably having survived if EMS was high) or Alliance troops (if EMS wasn't) come out and help get Anderson('s body) and the ground team into the Normandy.

-If your EMS was not high enough, your ground team (running to the beam) is dead and things continue same as above from the *EDI point.

-Once the Normandy has finished there, EDI informs Joker that the Citadel is gathering another energy pulse but this time aimed at the Charon (is that the name of the Sol relay?) relay and that it will likely destroy the relay network, their only chance is to get to the next relay ahead of it and attempt to destroy it. (flimsy, I know but bare with me) Now here, you can have Joker say "I can't leave Shepard! Not again!" and EDI can let him know that Shepard would understand and want him to try and save the network. (I'm assuming they would not be privy to the knowledge of exactly what is happening with the Control, Destroy or Synthesis decision) The Normandy then fires off towards the relay and hits it just before the first pulse. Then things can proceed as they did in the endings.

This would at least explain the Normandy imo.

[Reverse Centaur]

Evil Minion wrote...

Caz Tirin wrote...

1. Thank you for this.  It's more of an explanation than anyone else has given.  You accept it's ambiguous and you state that is why you like it.  That's one of the main points of the question we've been asking: "What did you 'get' about the ending?

Yes, it really comes down to personal preference. Either you like ambiguous endings or you don't. But I don't think they "work" in video games because video games are primarily visual.

Which is why I support RTME efforts to get a new ending. MOST people (that I know of) don't care for ambiguous endings to stories they paid $200+ for.

2.  I'm curious which things you don't see as plotholes.  I was going to give a list of several, but then I realized it might be something else entirely.

For example, Joker "running away." I don't think there's enough evidence for us to definitively conclude WHAT Joker was doing. He could've been "running away," but he could've had a thousand other intentions. We just don't know.

We can only assume (which is part of the problem). Some see this as a "plot" problem. I see it as a problem concerning sloppy visuals.

5. If that was they're aim, then I agree.  But even if that was their aim, we all spent 2.9 games with the focus being about the choices we made and how that would bring about the salvation of the galaxy (granted that salvation was implied, but it was implied HEAVILY and at every major choice).  At the last minute, Shepard is no longer able to stand up for him/her-self and tell Starbaby "Stick it!  We'll do this our way like we have from the start!" ??

Weeelllll.....

I've always been skeptical of the amount of "choice" we had in the ME trilogy. Most of my actions didn't seem to have a very big impact on the wider world. For example, if I choose to let the council die, then the only thing that happened was that the council came back, but with different voices and slightly different dialogue.

IMHO, the only thing we really had true "choice" over was our relationships and how we choose to respond to events. Everything else didn't seem to ultimately matter, so the end, wherein Shepard is presented with limited "choice," fell in line with my expectations..

Thanks for typing this. Sums how I feel perfectly.

[Barict78]

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

I want u to Explain how u can justify it in anyway so i can enjoy it too why are u hoarding all the Knowledge? WHYYYYYYYY??? let me know how to enjoy it!!

As to that, it's simple. The ending was in context with story I  was personally playing in ME trilogy (The so-called Role-playing aspect) and the fact that I despise happy endings. Enjoying a story and it's ending in RP games is in my opinion a very personal thing. That's the beauty of Role-playing. 

While i admire ur Fortitude the ending was in no way inline with the ME story which is all about Choice and Hope the End was about a Space Brat Railroading u into 3 choices 3 hopless choices at that, And SHepard all of the sudden has lost his ability to question the starbaby. Shepard would have questioned that fool till he couldnt talk anymore before he would do any of those things and really hed have probably just blown his brains out all over starkids face rather than do anything that would so damage the galaxy at large. Talk about a not happy ending ud have loved that then just bang to ur temple and it fades to black and is over

[humes spork]

Gemini1179 wrote...

The Normandy SR2 is said, in ME2's codex to not be able to land on a planet due to its mass.

Can anyone tell me how Shepard boarded the SR-2 in the beginning of ME3 again? Because I can't remember, and I can't put my finger on it but I can't help but wonder if it might be relevant.

Modifié par humes spork, 31 mars 2012 - 09:54 .

[Zan_Vaelius]

Barict78 wrote...

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

I want u to Explain how u can justify it in anyway so i can enjoy it too why are u hoarding all the Knowledge? WHYYYYYYYY??? let me know how to enjoy it!!

As to that, it's simple. The ending was in context with story I  was personally playing in ME trilogy (The so-called Role-playing aspect) and the fact that I despise happy endings. Enjoying a story and it's ending in RP games is in my opinion a very personal thing. That's the beauty of Role-playing. 

While i admire ur Fortitude the ending was in no way inline with the ME story which is all about Choice and Hope the End was about a Space Brat Railroading u into 3 choices 3 hopless choices at that, And SHepard all of the sudden has lost his ability to question the starbaby. Shepard would have questioned that fool till he couldnt talk anymore before he would do any of those things and really hed have probably just blown his brains out all over starkids face rather than do anything that would so damage the galaxy at large. Talk about a not happy ending ud have loved that then just bang to ur temple and it fades to black and is over

Shepard is mortally wounded in that scene. I don't think he has much strenght left to argue, but that's just my opinion. 

[Barict78]

humes spork wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

The Normandy SR2 is said, in ME2's codex to not be able to land on a planet due to its mass.

Can anyone tell me how Shepard boarded the SR-2 in the beginning of ME3 again? Because I can't remember, and I can't put my finger on it but I can't help but wonder if it might be relevant.

As i said in an Earlier Post if The Normandy COULD land by the Beam then why in the name of all thats Holy did we have to fight our way there on foot Why didnt Joker just drop us off right at the beam? or if its some Magical shuttle why didnt said shuttle drop SHep and Anderson at the beam and take the other squaddies to the Normandy?

[Barict78]

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

I want u to Explain how u can justify it in anyway so i can enjoy it too why are u hoarding all the Knowledge? WHYYYYYYYY??? let me know how to enjoy it!!

As to that, it's simple. The ending was in context with story I  was personally playing in ME trilogy (The so-called Role-playing aspect) and the fact that I despise happy endings. Enjoying a story and it's ending in RP games is in my opinion a very personal thing. That's the beauty of Role-playing. 

While i admire ur Fortitude the ending was in no way inline with the ME story which is all about Choice and Hope the End was about a Space Brat Railroading u into 3 choices 3 hopless choices at that, And SHepard all of the sudden has lost his ability to question the starbaby. Shepard would have questioned that fool till he couldnt talk anymore before he would do any of those things and really hed have probably just blown his brains out all over starkids face rather than do anything that would so damage the galaxy at large. Talk about a not happy ending ud have loved that then just bang to ur temple and it fades to black and is over

Shepard is mortally wounded in that scene. I don't think he has much strenght left to argue, but that's just my opinion. 

Dude Really Just Really? The fate of the Galaxy is at hand EVERY LIVING THING depends on what he does in the next 5 min i think he culd muster the strength to ask a couple Frakkin questions. But U like my suicide ending better dont ya? Admit it.

[Tessah]

*FacePalm*

[Zan_Vaelius]

Barict78 wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

The Normandy SR2 is said, in ME2's codex to not be able to land on a planet due to its mass.

Can anyone tell me how Shepard boarded the SR-2 in the beginning of ME3 again? Because I can't remember, and I can't put my finger on it but I can't help but wonder if it might be relevant.

As i said in an Earlier Post if The Normandy COULD land by the Beam then why in the name of all thats Holy did we have to fight our way there on foot Why didnt Joker just drop us off right at the beam? or if its some Magical shuttle why didnt said shuttle drop SHep and Anderson at the beam and take the other squaddies to the Normandy?

Uhh cause there is a destroyer next to it? Which is very good at taking down shuttles? And I doubt Old Man Harbringer would not recognize Normandy under it's new paint job just flying to the beam. (I mean he reacted immediately on Ground assault, so I doubt a huge starship would escape his attention) 

[Gruzmog]

humes spork wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

The Normandy SR2 is said, in ME2's codex to not be able to land on a planet due to its mass.

Can anyone tell me how Shepard boarded the SR-2 in the beginning of ME3 again? Because I can't remember, and I can't put my finger on it but I can't help but wonder if it might be relevant.

It hang suspende in mid air next to plateau, thats not landing. You need a suitable mounting platform for that to work.

[Barict78]

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

The Normandy SR2 is said, in ME2's codex to not be able to land on a planet due to its mass.

Can anyone tell me how Shepard boarded the SR-2 in the beginning of ME3 again? Because I can't remember, and I can't put my finger on it but I can't help but wonder if it might be relevant.

As i said in an Earlier Post if The Normandy COULD land by the Beam then why in the name of all thats Holy did we have to fight our way there on foot Why didnt Joker just drop us off right at the beam? or if its some Magical shuttle why didnt said shuttle drop SHep and Anderson at the beam and take the other squaddies to the Normandy?

Uhh cause there is a destroyer next to it? Which is very good at taking down shuttles? And I doubt Old Man Harbringer would not recognize Normandy under it's new paint job just flying to the beam. (I mean he reacted immediately on Ground assault, so I doubt a huge starship would escape his attention) 

Exactly so then how does it somehow work in reverse how can the Normandy Suddenly be able to land and pik up ur squad? how can said magic shuttle pik up ur squad and avoid EVERY reaper to get to the Normandy?

[pharsti]

Each time i see someone saying how amazing the end was (this is amazingly rare thou) i feel angry, not at the people who liked it mind you!
No, i feel angry at myself, wish i could..... accept that mess and be able to call it good, i cant, makes me so envious that some can T_T

[Barict78]

Ya tru that

[TLK Spires]

but they weren't even endings. they were impossible non-endings. it helps to have a clue before you post.

[lillitheris]

humes spork wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

4. Why doesn't the Cherenkov radiation kill everyone?

For one thing, the codex gets it wrong on Cherenkov radiation. Cherenkov radiation is non-ionizing. Even if it were, due to the very nature of Cherenkov radiation the crew of the Normandy would not be exposed to it. Cherenkov radiation moves away from the object exceeding the phase velocity of light.

I'm pretty sure they just got it from Gojira and thought it sounded cool, honestly, but it is specified as lethal. Or, more precisely, perhaps it's supposed to be read as “lethal CR” (as opposed to the regular variety)?

EDIT: Actually, that kind of action wouldn't even create Cherenkov radiation. That can't happen in a vacuum.

Ah, but given that it's forming as a result of the FTL exit and therefore not in regular space, technically space is a slower medium. Also,

[Reverse Centaur]

I don't understand the "my choices don't matter" part either. I don't see how they matter any less now then they did back in ME 1. Did anyone actually think they had complete control of the entire story? If so perhaps your expectations were too much.

Throughout this series our choices alter and nudge the way the story is being told, but it does not rewrite the entire script. That doesn't minimize the impact of the things I could control (curing the genophage, the suicide mission, peace between geth and quarian, etc).

During Shepard's journey I felt the weight of every one of those decisions, including the last choice she made.

I don't believe the ending was perfect, but I did enjoy it. I certainly don't have a problem if Bioware wants to elaborate on a few of the details. The hate and nitpicking has just gone way too far.

You can stick just about any story under the microscope and uncover at least a few inconsistencies. If that's how some of you choose to treat all works of fiction, I doubt you get much enjoyment out of story telling.

[aliengmr1]

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

Zan_Vaelius wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

I want u to Explain how u can justify it in anyway so i can enjoy it too why are u hoarding all the Knowledge? WHYYYYYYYY??? let me know how to enjoy it!!

As to that, it's simple. The ending was in context with story I  was personally playing in ME trilogy (The so-called Role-playing aspect) and the fact that I despise happy endings. Enjoying a story and it's ending in RP games is in my opinion a very personal thing. That's the beauty of Role-playing. 

While i admire ur Fortitude the ending was in no way inline with the ME story which is all about Choice and Hope the End was about a Space Brat Railroading u into 3 choices 3 hopless choices at that, And SHepard all of the sudden has lost his ability to question the starbaby. Shepard would have questioned that fool till he couldnt talk anymore before he would do any of those things and really hed have probably just blown his brains out all over starkids face rather than do anything that would so damage the galaxy at large. Talk about a not happy ending ud have loved that then just bang to ur temple and it fades to black and is over

Shepard is mortally wounded in that scene. I don't think he has much strenght left to argue, but that's just my opinion. 

But he has enough strength to make a running leap or even hold on to 2 "things" while being vaporized?

I guess if Shep and star-kid were on BSN then arguing might be difficult.

[zarnk567]

Reverse Centaur wrote...

I don't understand the "my choices don't matter" part either. I don't see how they matter any less now then they did back in ME 1. Did anyone actually think they had complete control of the entire story? If so perhaps your expectations were too much.

Throughout this series our choices alter and nudge the way the story is being told, but it does not rewrite the entire script. That doesn't minimize the impact of the things I could control (curing the genophage, the suicide mission, peace between geth and quarian, etc).

During Shepard's journey I felt the weight of every one of those decisions, including the last choice she made.

I don't believe the ending was perfect, but I did enjoy it. I certainly don't have a problem if Bioware wants to elaborate on a few of the details. The hate and nitpicking has just gone way too far.

You can stick just about any story under the microscope and uncover at least a few inconsistencies. If that's how some of you choose to treat all works of fiction, I doubt you get much enjoyment out of story telling.

It is mainly because of Casey's many interviews stating that the endings would be 'radically different depending on your choices" and "there are no A, B or C endings". 

[magnutz06]

Honest question to those who like the ending.

Were you happy with the representation given to the allies and assets collected throughout the trilogy ?? Even at 100% GR with over 7000 pts for assets all that was shown was a cameo of the fleet.

Starchild and last minute antagonist reveal aside I found this to be most upsetting. Three games of unifying the ME galaxy and they were all offscreen canon. I find it tragic that anyone who played the series could be happy with Shep taking back alleys and backstreets, while the rest of the galaxy was where?

Please I want to understand your mindset. How did you truly feel when all your backup was ignored in the finale?

[SaleemRa]

Hi guys, first time poster but been lurking a while here in what my wife has taken to calling "the Black Hole".

Ok I actually liked the ending, I personally dig the whole OTT melodramatic warriors self sacrifice theme and I'll try to explain why I like it because a few anti-enders (sorry if thats not what you call yourself but cant think of a better word atm) have voiced that the pro enders never answer the question.

First off I'd just like to say that interpretation is very subjective and is dependent on a whole bunch of things like upbringing, local norms etc - none is better then the other but the can be very different, that being the case I would expect a lot of the ppl here on this forum would have a different view to mine. In fact I'd be suprised if they didnt.

Reasons why I liked the ending:

1) I got to do what I had always wanted to do. IE wipe out the reapers

2) That last scene with with TIM and Andy was very satisfying, watching TIM cap himself was even better then doing it my self coz I felt the SOB wasnt worth the effort. Andy dying right next to me made me cry. The plot hole on how Hacket knew I survived was an easy one for me since he obviously noted the citadel opening up and he probably assumed that Mr.Hero aka me did it. Failing that he probably heard the whole dialogue between me, Andy and TIM via Andy's comm since his armor was pretty much unscathed.

3) I was the BAWS - so much so my daughter has taken to repeating lol. I saved the whole friggin universe! Now I reject the theory that relay destruction = supernova on the the grounds that in arrival the relay was not in an active state, it was more or less idling so it probably had a lot more pent up energy when it blew. The ME3 ending scene showed the relay spinning at a much higher speed and establishing a mass free corridor before it popped. This to me says most of its destructive potential was spent. The light show was the kill/control/synth switch mechanism - kinda silly if you ask me but they needed something to show that the msg was being sent. My guess is that they probably ran out of ideas by this stage IMHO.

4) Normandy getting out of town was not an issue for me - why? Well it made sense to me that Joker had no idea what was going on and when he saw the citadel go up and that big shock wave coming his way he got the hell outa dodge. I seem to recall he got to close to the collector ship when it got taken out and the Normandy got tossed like a rag doll, this wave was magnitudes bigger so he probably just cut and run. My best guess is that the wave carried them along and Joker some how managed to escape it as they came across some random garden world. Additionally the crew I saw at the end were NOT on the final mission with me. I ran the race to the beam with EDI and Vega but Tali and Garrus came strolling out in my ending so I'm calling this one a BUG - It has to be and I wouldnt be surprised if its a flagging error kinda like Verner Conrad in ME2. They were probably rushing this last bit of code and it slipped past the testers who were just glad that the whole thing was over - playtesting from start to finish is very tiring and by the end there is a lot of room for mistakes or for things to just slip by unnoticed. So the whole thing with you tube vids showing dead crew or guys on earth walking out of the wreck leads me to believe that its just a programming error.

5)The catalyst was an "aha I knew it!" moment for me. The kid always bothered me something was up and the fact that he kept appearing in Sheps dreams raised flags in my mind. Now I will be the first to admit that the original kid MAY have been real in the beginning but he kept being painted in a negative light to me in the dreams so when I saw him as the catalyst I knew it was a trick. The reapers were trying to indoctrinate me the moment I got on the citadel it was obvious to me they were trying to make me sympathetic to their cause by showing up in his form. This lead me to believe that EVERYTHING it was saying was a lie. This also resolved the Deus Ex Machina issue for me, EDI already mentioned to me in a previous conversation that the Reapers would do anything to ensure their survival and since she didnt want to be like the reapers she would put her body on the line to save joker and crew if need be. Now bearing this in mind the whole star kids story about it being a higher power controlling the reapers and it was its solution was it blatantly lying to my face in the same way politicians do come election day. It obviously didnt want to get controlled heck even the geth were overwhelmed by the reapers mind it was ludicrous to think that I could do it - so its a honey trap. Even if Shep got somehow uploaded he would be overwhelmed and corrupted so the cycle would eventually continue again. Green was what the reapers wanted all along ie to harvest eveyrone. Synth in my mind was everyone getting "infected" by reaper code or nannites or whatever thus turning into reapers themselves ie the pinnacle of evolution. Note this transformation did not necessarily mean they turned into giant spaceships using fog horns for speech, this was what they wanted all along but the crucible gave them a better way to do it and do it on a larger scale. Either way the relays go pop, if blue its because they want the universe to get isolated and forget so they can wait it out and come back at a later time. If its Green then the reapers are mission complete so they dont need the relays anymore. Red is just death to the reapers and since the relays were made by them same thing goes for them.

6) Fate of the Citadel is ambiguous and not defined and can be anything we want. Is everybody dead? We dont know. All we know is that the arms got blown off the presidium ring. Shelters on the wards could still be intact for all we know - we can fill in the blanks ourselves coz its not important. Even the fate of Shep is not really known, for all intensive purposes he could be on the Presedium ring still. We dont know for sure if it was completely blown apart or just broken at the hinges. I dont think that the wreck is going to fall into the earth anytime soon or at all - just not enough info there so we are free to decide what we want.

So that is why I like the ending and that is what I got out of it. Feel free to have your own interpretations.

[McScroggz24]

First, glad that you love the endings...

Dava Flava wrote...

Clearly, if I liked the ending and others don't, then they didn't get it like I did. That's not passive aggressive; that's factual.

This implies the idea that many of us, I would say the vast majority, didn't "get" the ending and are in some way stupid/ignorant/shallow, for the sake of civility I will assume this was not your intention.

Lastly, while I certainly will not assume that all, or even a majority, of those who come on here automatically know about the outrage over the ending/s; however, given your original statement it appears you do. So with that being said you conciously said something you knew would ruffle people's feathers and didn't give any reasons why.

I have NO problem with your post, or people who love the ending/s. I just have grown tired of those who say they love it then don't even try, or can't, give a reasonable assessment of why they like the ending/s. To me, and many others, if you canot enumerate a few reasons why you love the ending/s, right or wrong, you appear to be trying to fan the flames.

[Helmchen2010]

Anyways, I just thought you'd like to hear that not everyone missed the point of your conclusion to Shepard's story.

Aaaaaand that's where I stopped reading. Thanks for engaging in this dialog... /sarcasm

[magnutz06]

magnutz06 wrote...

Honest question to those who like the ending.

Were you happy with the representation given to the allies and assets collected throughout the trilogy ?? Even at 100% GR with over 7000 pts for assets all that was shown was a cameo of the fleet.

Starchild and last minute antagonist reveal aside I found this to be most upsetting. Three games of unifying the ME galaxy and they were all offscreen canon. I find it tragic that anyone who played the series could be happy with Shep taking back alleys and backstreets, while the rest of the galaxy was where?

Please I want to understand your mindset. How did you truly feel when all your backup was ignored in the finale?

Just want to bump this until a proender answers. I would really appreciate an answer. I would love to find a way to love the ending the way you guys do.