159 réponses à ce sujet

[Raizo]

Is ME2 a better game? Let's never forget that ME2 had many flaws. Still, despite it's many flaws I had alot of fun playing ME2, I have re-played it many, many times and out of the 3 ME games it is the one that I feel has the most re-play value and it is the most fun.

[Catroi]

ME1 is the best in my opinion but I know I'm pretty much the only one thinking so...
For me the ME trilogy should have been only RPG oriented, we lost that with ME2 =(

[ahandsomeshark]

Bleachrude wrote...

Joccaren wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Again...how was ME1's story better?

It made no sense...Exactly why did Saren need the conduit again?

Because Sovereign had no idea why the Keepers weren't responding. In order to find out, he had to find the Conduit, and figure out what the Protheans had done. He had Saren do this. Sovereign then used Saren as a quick infiltration unit to control the Citadel whilst he docked with it, and take the entire place completely off guard - except Shepard. Without knowing where or what the Conduit was, Sovereign wouldn't have been able to come to the conclusion/mine the Prothean archives on Ilos to find out why the Keepers weren't responding, and wouldn't have known how to fix it.
It makes sense up until the ME3 ending, but that is more a problem with the ME3 ending than the ME1 story.

No..you're putting the cart BEFORE the horse.

Why didn't Saren simply WALK into the citadel BEFORE Eden prime when he was STILL a spectre in good standing (Best spectre EVER)

All the conduit was a backdoor into the citadel itself since the protheans couldn't use the mass relays anymore.

There was no reason for Saren NOT to simply walk into the Citadel, 

Think about it for a while....Saren and Sovereign go to Eden prime to figure out what the protheans did, find out about the conduit and then its a race to find the conduit which is a backdoor into the citadel...But Saren neved NEEDED a backdoor to get into the citadel UNTIL Eden prime....

Because then the citadel would have simply closed and made it impossible for him to get the geth army in. That was kind of the whole point, originally the keepers would have opened a relay getting the reapers into the citadel space instantly. So then Saren/Sovereign had to figure out another way to get in with an entire army instantly. I thought the citadel forces might have noticed a few hundred geth ships suddenly in citadel space and sounded off tons of alarms. The point was to get the army INTO the citadel before countermeasures could begin.

Modifié par ahandsomeshark, 01 avril 2012 - 01:37 .

[Bleachrude]

I think only Mordin's actual recruitment mission referred anything about the collectors...

It's weird that Liara's DLC (which could be seen as combination loyalty/recruitment mission) actually had more relevance to the plot of ME2 than ANY of the squadmates...Not sure that's a good thing though....

[Tal_Elmar]

I'm leaning towards the first part of the trilogy, the magnificent introduction of ME1
Granted, it had some gameplay flaws, but the story was rock solid

[Sgt Reed 24]

Bleachrude wrote...

I think only Mordin's actual recruitment mission referred anything about the collectors...

It's weird that Liara's DLC (which could be seen as combination loyalty/recruitment mission) actually had more relevance to the plot of ME2 than ANY of the squadmates...Not sure that's a good thing though....

It's definitely not a good thing. 

[ahandsomeshark]

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
I heard from a bunch of people that ME2 is still the better game, and the "Empire" of the series.

I think it's still the worst of the series.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
It had better individual stories.

Maybe but...they didn't fit together at all and the whole experience was disjointed.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
You were more closer to the characters because of the loyalty missions.

I didn't feel it...maybe b/c the character dev was limited to these missions and didn't spill out into other areas...having no squad banter/interaction hurt in this area.  Hell, ME1 had more squad interaction b/c of the elevators.  The ME1 and ME3 crews actually felt like a team made up of people who knew each other/liked each other/hated each other/etc.  In ME2, if felt like they were a bunch of strangers you pulled together to do one mission because they never fricken talked to one another.  Which is funny considering ME2 is supposed to be 'the' character driven game of the series (though, I think Hudson said this b/c the ME2 main plot was so awful).  I thought ME3 did a better job there.

^ This

All of it.

ME2 was nothing but loyalty missions which btw... had absolutely nothing to do with the story of the game (stopping the collectors/reapers).

The story of the game was building a team strong enough to survive a trip through the Omega Relay to stop the collectors. That's what the loyalty missions were for, hence why they were optional but with consequences.

Also I think people are forgetting how sequels work in trilogies, they usually have to advance the plot in some way without simply reusing the original plot and making it a bigger scale, ME2 did that amazingly compared to most part II's in trilogies. While also expanding on the lore and the feel of the universe by introducing us to the terminus systems.

[Bleachrude]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Joccaren wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Again...how was ME1's story better?

It made no sense...Exactly why did Saren need the conduit again?

Because Sovereign had no idea why the Keepers weren't responding. In order to find out, he had to find the Conduit, and figure out what the Protheans had done. He had Saren do this. Sovereign then used Saren as a quick infiltration unit to control the Citadel whilst he docked with it, and take the entire place completely off guard - except Shepard. Without knowing where or what the Conduit was, Sovereign wouldn't have been able to come to the conclusion/mine the Prothean archives on Ilos to find out why the Keepers weren't responding, and wouldn't have known how to fix it.
It makes sense up until the ME3 ending, but that is more a problem with the ME3 ending than the ME1 story.

No..you're putting the cart BEFORE the horse.

Why didn't Saren simply WALK into the citadel BEFORE Eden prime when he was STILL a spectre in good standing (Best spectre EVER)

All the conduit was a backdoor into the citadel itself since the protheans couldn't use the mass relays anymore.

There was no reason for Saren NOT to simply walk into the Citadel, 

Think about it for a while....Saren and Sovereign go to Eden prime to figure out what the protheans did, find out about the conduit and then its a race to find the conduit which is a backdoor into the citadel...But Saren neved NEEDED a backdoor to get into the citadel UNTIL Eden prime....

Because then the citadel would have simply closed and made it impossible for him to get the geth army in. That was kind of the whole point, originally the keepers would have opened a relay getting them into the citadel space instantly. So then Saren/Sovereign had to figure out a way to get in with an entire army instantly. I thought the citadel forces might have noticed a few hundred geth ships suddenly in citadel space and sounded off tons of alarms. The point was to get the army INTO the citadel before countermeasures could begin.

Again...you're still putting the cart before the horse.

Work with me here..

What exactly is preventing Saren from simply walking into the citadel pre Eden prime and doing one or both of the following
a) Examine the keepers to figure out what the hell is wrong
take possession of the control room and have sovereign simply barrel his way in...remember, during the actual battle, all of the ships did jack and nothing to sovereign...

Pre Eden prime, Saren is the greatest spectre of all time..If Saren had simply walked in and said 

"there's an emergency and I need everyone to clear out of the room?" why would anyone think differently and actually say NO? He's a spectre and not just any spectre but the most famous/best spectre of all time pre Eden prime.

[Asiant]

Overall, ME2 > ME3

sure ME3 beats Me2 in terms of combat, but story and character wise, ME2 hands down

[Jamie9]

To Bleachrude:

Sovereign is a patient Reaper. It didn't know what the Conduit was. It might have thought it was a weapon, hell, maybe Sovereign thought that it was the Crucible. That would be a nice bit of continuity. Everybody in the Alliance thought the Conduit was a weapon until you go to Ilos and meet Vigil.

Sovereign was being patient and thorough, he needed to know what the Conduit was. It was potentially more dangerous than the whole of this cycle.

Modifié par Jamie9, 01 avril 2012 - 01:47 .

[Bleachrude]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
I heard from a bunch of people that ME2 is still the better game, and the "Empire" of the series.

I think it's still the worst of the series.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
It had better individual stories.

Maybe but...they didn't fit together at all and the whole experience was disjointed.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
You were more closer to the characters because of the loyalty missions.

I didn't feel it...maybe b/c the character dev was limited to these missions and didn't spill out into other areas...having no squad banter/interaction hurt in this area.  Hell, ME1 had more squad interaction b/c of the elevators.  The ME1 and ME3 crews actually felt like a team made up of people who knew each other/liked each other/hated each other/etc.  In ME2, if felt like they were a bunch of strangers you pulled together to do one mission because they never fricken talked to one another.  Which is funny considering ME2 is supposed to be 'the' character driven game of the series (though, I think Hudson said this b/c the ME2 main plot was so awful).  I thought ME3 did a better job there.

^ This

All of it.

ME2 was nothing but loyalty missions which btw... had absolutely nothing to do with the story of the game (stopping the collectors/reapers).

The story of the game was building a team strong enough to survive a trip through the Omega Relay to stop the collectors. That's what the loyalty missions were for, hence why they were optional but with consequences.

I think this is where a lot of people have a problem with ME2's plot.

How can you build a team when you don't even know what is on the other side?

(fun fact: In the suicide mission, it is actually harder to have everyone survive if you recruit Kasumi than if you never pick up the Stolen Memories DLC)

[Jamie9]

Again to Bleachrude:

That's why it's a suicide mission. They don't know what's through the Omega 4 Relay so you pick up the best of the best. The best thief, the best mercenary, the best biotic. You have a variety of team members to combat whatever is through it.

[Melancholic]

The following assumes ME3's ending is fixed...

ME1 has a great story. Everything was exciting and new. Exploration.
ME2 has character and mission variety. The setting is fleshed out.
ME3 concludes the subplots set up in the previous games in a mostly satisfying way.

It's a trilogy (rather than a series) because each game builds upon the previous one. Try to see each game as an act of a larger whole that complements the others. There's no need to explore the setting or introduce new subplots in ME3, because that's what ME1 is for. There's no need to introduce characters, factions and places in ME3, because that's what ME2 is for.

Modifié par Melancholic, 01 avril 2012 - 01:50 .

[Bleachrude]

Jamie9 wrote...

To Bleachrude:

Sovereign is a patient Reaper. It didn't know what the Conduit was. It might have thought it was a weapon, hell, maybe Sovereign thought that it was the Catalyst. That would be a nice bit of continuity. Everybody in the Alliance thought the Conduit was a weapon until you go to Ilos and meet Vigil.

Sovereign was being patient and thorough, he needed to know what the Conduit was. It was potentially more dangerous than the whole of this cycle.

I wonder if Sovereign did a facepalm when it found out what the conduit was...

Sovereign: "Saren, let me see if I have this right...We went through al this trouble and having to deal with this human to find out that the conduit is simply a backdoor into the citadel?"
Saren: "it would appear so...."
Sovereign: "So why didn't I simply have you walk into the citadel BEFORE Eden prime shenanigans when you were a spectre in good standing?"
Saren:(shrug) You're the one beyond my understanding.....

[Conquerthecity]

 imo: 

ME2 > ME1 > ME3. 

[Jamie9]

Bleachrude wrote...
I wonder if Sovereign did a facepalm when it found out what the conduit was...

Sovereign: "Saren, let me see if I have this right...We went through al this trouble and having to deal with this human to find out that the conduit is simply a backdoor into the citadel?"
Saren: "it would appear so...."
Sovereign: "So why didn't I simply have you walk into the citadel BEFORE Eden prime shenanigans when you were a spectre in good standing?"
Saren:(shrug) You're the one beyond my understanding.....

Yeah, it is an epic fail on Soveriegn's part. But hindsight can fix every problem. Assuming they had the idea of the Crucible from the beginning, this means that the Reapers DO in fact look for it.

Plus, Sovereign had to connect manually to the Citadel. A 2km Reaper had to be in the Citadel and close the arms. It required an army just to get there. I don't think Sovy would have fit through the Conduit.

[Sgt Reed 24]

Bleachrude wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
I heard from a bunch of people that ME2 is still the better game, and the "Empire" of the series.

I think it's still the worst of the series.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
It had better individual stories.

Maybe but...they didn't fit together at all and the whole experience was disjointed.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
You were more closer to the characters because of the loyalty missions.

I didn't feel it...maybe b/c the character dev was limited to these missions and didn't spill out into other areas...having no squad banter/interaction hurt in this area.  Hell, ME1 had more squad interaction b/c of the elevators.  The ME1 and ME3 crews actually felt like a team made up of people who knew each other/liked each other/hated each other/etc.  In ME2, if felt like they were a bunch of strangers you pulled together to do one mission because they never fricken talked to one another.  Which is funny considering ME2 is supposed to be 'the' character driven game of the series (though, I think Hudson said this b/c the ME2 main plot was so awful).  I thought ME3 did a better job there.

^ This

All of it.

ME2 was nothing but loyalty missions which btw... had absolutely nothing to do with the story of the game (stopping the collectors/reapers).

The story of the game was building a team strong enough to survive a trip through the Omega Relay to stop the collectors. That's what the loyalty missions were for, hence why they were optional but with consequences.

I think this is where a lot of people have a problem with ME2's plot.

How can you build a team when you don't even know what is on the other side?

(fun fact: In the suicide mission, it is actually harder to have everyone survive if you recruit Kasumi than if you never pick up the Stolen Memories DLC)

That's not the reason... at least for me anyway.

I'm fine with building a team... like the other guy said, you pick the best biotics, best soldiers, etc to take b/c you don't know what's gonna happen. THAT makes sense.

My thing is that the majority of the game was loyalty missions. Why the hell do I need to take you to find your dad or shoot a traitor to make you want to go and save the galaxy? Um hello... pretty sure the galaxy is more important. Hell, Garrus and Tali should have been automatically loyal to you. 

Now... if in the course of making them loyal...you were actually doing things to thwart the collectors along the way. I would have had no problem with them. I mean, they were good missions when not part of a bigger story. 

[ahandsomeshark]

Bleachrude wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
I heard from a bunch of people that ME2 is still the better game, and the "Empire" of the series.

I think it's still the worst of the series.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
It had better individual stories.

Maybe but...they didn't fit together at all and the whole experience was disjointed.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
You were more closer to the characters because of the loyalty missions.

I didn't feel it...maybe b/c the character dev was limited to these missions and didn't spill out into other areas...having no squad banter/interaction hurt in this area.  Hell, ME1 had more squad interaction b/c of the elevators.  The ME1 and ME3 crews actually felt like a team made up of people who knew each other/liked each other/hated each other/etc.  In ME2, if felt like they were a bunch of strangers you pulled together to do one mission because they never fricken talked to one another.  Which is funny considering ME2 is supposed to be 'the' character driven game of the series (though, I think Hudson said this b/c the ME2 main plot was so awful).  I thought ME3 did a better job there.

^ This

All of it.

ME2 was nothing but loyalty missions which btw... had absolutely nothing to do with the story of the game (stopping the collectors/reapers).

The story of the game was building a team strong enough to survive a trip through the Omega Relay to stop the collectors. That's what the loyalty missions were for, hence why they were optional but with consequences.

I think this is where a lot of people have a problem with ME2's plot.

How can you build a team when you don't even know what is on the other side?

(fun fact: In the suicide mission, it is actually harder to have everyone survive if you recruit Kasumi than if you never pick up the Stolen Memories DLC)

I don't thik this is actually true. Doesn't Kasumi have a line rating of 2 (if loyal)? That would mean she has no impact one way or another on that part, and I'm not sure where else she would make it harder to survive.

[ahandsomeshark]

Bleachrude wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Joccaren wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Again...how was ME1's story better?

It made no sense...Exactly why did Saren need the conduit again?

Because Sovereign had no idea why the Keepers weren't responding. In order to find out, he had to find the Conduit, and figure out what the Protheans had done. He had Saren do this. Sovereign then used Saren as a quick infiltration unit to control the Citadel whilst he docked with it, and take the entire place completely off guard - except Shepard. Without knowing where or what the Conduit was, Sovereign wouldn't have been able to come to the conclusion/mine the Prothean archives on Ilos to find out why the Keepers weren't responding, and wouldn't have known how to fix it.
It makes sense up until the ME3 ending, but that is more a problem with the ME3 ending than the ME1 story.

No..you're putting the cart BEFORE the horse.

Why didn't Saren simply WALK into the citadel BEFORE Eden prime when he was STILL a spectre in good standing (Best spectre EVER)

All the conduit was a backdoor into the citadel itself since the protheans couldn't use the mass relays anymore.

There was no reason for Saren NOT to simply walk into the Citadel, 

Think about it for a while....Saren and Sovereign go to Eden prime to figure out what the protheans did, find out about the conduit and then its a race to find the conduit which is a backdoor into the citadel...But Saren neved NEEDED a backdoor to get into the citadel UNTIL Eden prime....

Because then the citadel would have simply closed and made it impossible for him to get the geth army in. That was kind of the whole point, originally the keepers would have opened a relay getting them into the citadel space instantly. So then Saren/Sovereign had to figure out a way to get in with an entire army instantly. I thought the citadel forces might have noticed a few hundred geth ships suddenly in citadel space and sounded off tons of alarms. The point was to get the army INTO the citadel before countermeasures could begin.

Again...you're still putting the cart before the horse.

Work with me here..

What exactly is preventing Saren from simply walking into the citadel pre Eden prime and doing one or both of the following
a) Examine the keepers to figure out what the hell is wrong
take possession of the control room and have sovereign simply barrel his way in...remember, during the actual battle, all of the ships did jack and nothing to sovereign...

Pre Eden prime, Saren is the greatest spectre of all time..If Saren had simply walked in and said 

"there's an emergency and I need everyone to clear out of the room?" why would anyone think differently and actually say NO? He's a spectre and not just any spectre but the most famous/best spectre of all time pre Eden prime.

I don't think it's actually stated he's the most famous/best, plus I'm pretty sure the entire citadel just isn't that gulliable. I imagine there are protocols even spectre's have to go through to do something like that. And that other spectres would probably be there saying wait a minute this doesn't make any sense.

Basically I just don't see any reason to believe that Saren just walking in and saying EMERGENCY EVERYONE GIVE ME TOTAL CONTROL, would have resulted in anything other than him getting shot.

[Fuzzfro]

me2 is the best of the series mainly for it's excellent character development but could of been better if it weren't for the poor main plot (unexplained human reaper).

me1 was excellent in terms of story, characters and customization but was poor in the combat department.

Me3 was also amazing and had exciting chaotic combat and very emotional scenes that ended side plots in a spectacular fashion, me3 also had the best soundtrack. But mass effect 3's broken ending and various faults made the game suffer.

If only we could combine Mass effect 1's story with mass effect 2's character development with Mass effect 3's combat and soundtrack.

[AnsinJung]

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
I heard from a bunch of people that ME2 is still the better game, and the "Empire" of the series.

I think it's still the worst of the series.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
It had better individual stories.

Maybe but...they didn't fit together at all and the whole experience was disjointed.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
You were more closer to the characters because of the loyalty missions.

I didn't feel it...maybe b/c the character dev was limited to these missions and didn't spill out into other areas...having no squad banter/interaction hurt in this area.  Hell, ME1 had more squad interaction b/c of the elevators.  The ME1 and ME3 crews actually felt like a team made up of people who knew each other/liked each other/hated each other/etc.  In ME2, if felt like they were a bunch of strangers you pulled together to do one mission because they never fricken talked to one another.  Which is funny considering ME2 is supposed to be 'the' character driven game of the series (though, I think Hudson said this b/c the ME2 main plot was so awful).  I thought ME3 did a better job there.

^ This

All of it.

ME2 was nothing but loyalty missions which btw... had absolutely nothing to do with the story of the game (stopping the collectors/reapers).

The story of the game was building a team strong enough to survive a trip through the Omega Relay to stop the collectors. That's what the loyalty missions were for, hence why they were optional but with consequences.

I think this is where a lot of people have a problem with ME2's plot.

How can you build a team when you don't even know what is on the other side?

(fun fact: In the suicide mission, it is actually harder to have everyone survive if you recruit Kasumi than if you never pick up the Stolen Memories DLC)

That's not the reason... at least for me anyway.

I'm fine with building a team... like the other guy said, you pick the best biotics, best soldiers, etc to take b/c you don't know what's gonna happen. THAT makes sense.

My thing is that the majority of the game was loyalty missions. Why the hell do I need to take you to find your dad or shoot a traitor to make you want to go and save the galaxy? Um hello... pretty sure the galaxy is more important. Hell, Garrus and Tali should have been automatically loyal to you. 

Now... if in the course of making them loyal...you were actually doing things to thwart the collectors along the way. I would have had no problem with them. I mean, they were good missions when not part of a bigger story. 

You're reading too much into the word "loyal" just because it appears on the squad selection screen.  They had distractions.

[Jamie9]

In theory, if your squad members had their mind on other things, they'd perform worse in battle.

A quote from Game of Thrones if you will:

"You are not here, you are with your trouble. If you are with your trouble when fighting happens, then more trouble will come to you." - Syrio Forrel, dancing master.

[Saremei]

I find ME3 to be superior to ME2 in nearly every aspect despite the ending.

[ZeroSum7]

I'd say ME1 was the better game

[d-boy15]

for me

story - ME1 > ME3 > ME2

gameplay - ME3 > ME2 > ME1

choice - ME2 > ME3 > ME1

theme - ME2 > ME1 > ME3