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[coldwetn0se]

Aryss0410 wrote...

Hello Friends,

                You want to know what went down on the last day of PAX East? Of course you do! Here
it is! After speaking with the Bioware staff, here are some tidbits that we have 'gleaned.' Please understand that some of this we may have misinterpreted. This is our take on what we heard. We may, because we are human, be mistaken.

                On Jacob: The disappointment of his plot development was mainly a result of a writer's intent being lost in translation. The way that this particular LI turned out was never meant to be offensive.  Please know, that this controversial development was never the writers intention.
                 On Liara's 'Embrace Eternity' Moment Before the last Battle: This was meant to be very open to fan interpretation. However, if you and Liara are just friends, it was not meant to be sexual. It was just suppose to be another touching moment of Asari nature. Something that would strengthen your bond, be it romantic or platonic, and represent a realization of the interconnectedness of the universe. Hence 'Embrace Eternity.'
                On the Final Flashback During the Three Endings: The reason why it flashed back to someone that was not necessarily your love interest was because the developers were forced to work within the constraints
of which characters might still be alive due to the massive amount of decisions present in the ME galaxy.
                On Vega: Sometimes, characters that are written develop a mind of their own. Vega is one of these characters. Though he may be very flirty, he developed into a strict military man that would not breach the chain of command. This is why he is not a romance option.
                On General Romance Options: We asked about why there were only five main romance options available in ME3. (Garrus, Tali, Ashley, Kaidan, and Liara)The response was that they felt that there were seven main romance options (including Traynor and Cortez,) which is more than there were in Mass Effect 2 where there were only six (Tali, Garrus, Thane, Miranda, Jack, and Jacob.)

                This is what we gathered. Again, we may be wrong on what we thought we heard on
everything except for the following.

                On this project: Over and over again, and from several different people, we were told that, for us to make a difference in future DLC, we need to continue speaking out in a unified voice. It will be easy to be drowned out by the movements that are campaigning for different endings. For us to succeed we must persevere and we must stand together.
 

                                                            <3   -Aryss Arlova & Nick

Thank you Aryss and Nick (and Goddess Visii, of course), for your charming persistence.  I really am impressed. 

Now on to the "interpretation" of said questions.  (and I do understand, that some things get lost in translation...but here it is nonetheless)

1) Jacob - I call foul.  If this had merely been the option for a NON-romanced Jacob, then fine......but that was NOT the case.  No reason for this at all, accept that they didn't want to include extra resources to navigate the ME2 romance.  Shameful!

2) Never got that far in the game....so have no real comment on the Liara "Embrace Eternity" moment...........

3) I believe Aislinn Trista already pointed out the obvious.  The game (and I have proof from the moment I imported a ME2 Shepard into said game) should have looked at the 'romance plot flags', and simply pulled screenshots (that would have been relatively easy, no???) for said romance.  Check and Mark!!

4) Though I personally would have never chosen him, I would NEVER begrudge other to do so, and again, I bow to the previous content of @Aislinn Trista.  He was setup to be very much as I remember Kaidan to be (and Ashley for that matter) in ME1.  I will again say "resource" (i.e. time/money) was the true issue here.  If they were so inclined to cater to a new audience (which I actually still believe they were), they DEFINATELY should have given Vega a "romance" option.
 
5)  We come to the crux of my main problem: this game should NOT have been catered to newcomers and those that didn't really care about an RPG. (hello Action mode and MP)  They should have ALWAYS been sticking by the established relationships.  If they wanted to cater to new players by giving them more options....make sure that Garrus and Tali were also open to new romances in me3!  But what you don't do, is ABANDON previous LI's.  Guaranteed alienation of some of your existing fanbase.  Period.

It is also sad to hear that we have to what....become obnoxious Internet w****s to potentially get SOME recognition, at SOME later date in SOME DLC.......and if we don't.....what happens.....we continue to get ignored??   Sad times indeed.  And.....admittedly, I am a tad bit emotional right now, so.......there is that!  ***k it!  I'm taking my bottle of wine to Life Support, suckas!

*passes out wit PDS cause wut else is there to do....................*

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 11 avril 2012 - 05:01 .

[Emeraldfern]

cbutz wrote...

There is a good point here. It feels tempting for each fan group to go off and do their own thing. The only problem is that that may lead to splits and muddle the voice of what we all want. On the other hand, the other way brings more autonomy to each group. Decisions decisions....or fan groups can do both.
Idk, how the heck can we get these guys attention?

Perhaps  each group does their own thing but then each group will contribute to a larger more unison project?

That sounds like a good idea, if people are willing to gather under one "banner" so to speak, then we would probably come across as one loud voice.

The fanbooks are a great way for Bioware to actually see what the fans of each character wants and with that kind of feedback it would be easy to plan content for them. After all, both Garrus and Tali's romances became a reality due to the voice of their fans and I suspect it was the same case with  the ame-sex romances, so with that in mind as long as we don't stay silent the chances go up.

/And on a partially Off-topic note, Regarding the fanbooks, I just finished making layouts for the other L.I.'s as well.
I just don't know wether I'll post them in each character thread or make a new "collected" thread for all of them or maybe both idk.

[Edit] Horrible morning derpness made me forget to thank Aryss, Nick and Visii for their hard work, but here I go:

Thank you yet again for allowing our voices to be heard!

Modifié par Emeraldfern, 11 avril 2012 - 04:56 .

[mnomaha]

Just popping in from Hell (that's RL for those that don't know) to say Hi! and I love you all!

Yes, I have been lurking but only because I haven't had the time to fully focus. Hopefully that will change soon.

[cbutz]

Yes thank you Aryss, Nick, and Visii, we did not have a snowballs chance in hell of getting anything for the ME 2 characters but now... now we have hope.

[ADLegend21]

Wow...just wow....WRITE JACOB LIKE YOU WOULD DO FOR GARRUS OR KAIDAN.

[coldwetn0se]

mnomaha wrote...

Just popping in from Hell (that's RL for those that don't know) to say Hi! and I love you all!

Yes, I have been lurking but only because I haven't had the time to fully focus. Hopefully that will change soon.

MNOMAHA!!!!!! <tackle/glomp>

drink? (damn!  they really need a "drinking/drunk" emoticon...***t!)

[Cyansomnia]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Wow...just wow....WRITE JACOB LIKE YOU WOULD DO FOR GARRUS OR KAIDAN.

I concur.

[mnomaha]

coldwetn0se wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Just popping in from Hell (that's RL for those that don't know) to say Hi! and I love you all!

Yes, I have been lurking but only because I haven't had the time to fully focus. Hopefully that will change soon.

MNOMAHA!!!!!! <tackle/glomp>

drink? (damn!  they really need a "drinking/drunk" emoticon...***t!)

*rolls tackle and sits on Coldi* What you got that goes with Subway? I'm thinking....tequila.

[coldwetn0se]

mnomaha wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Just popping in from Hell (that's RL for those that don't know) to say Hi! and I love you all!

Yes, I have been lurking but only because I haven't had the time to fully focus. Hopefully that will change soon.

MNOMAHA!!!!!! <tackle/glomp>

drink? (damn!  they really need a "drinking/drunk" emoticon...***t!)

*rolls tackle and sits on Coldi* What you got that goes with Subway? I'm thinking....tequila.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, tequila and sammies..........I'm hungry.

[Caihn]

flemm wrote...

Aislinn Trista wrote...

Flashback:
No, sorry. That excuse doesn't hold water with me. You could have easily done this through the use of already existing plot flags. Check: Current Romance.  Wow, that was really hard.  Don't give me that crap.
/end rant

Yeah, that excuse can't be taken seriously. There's no way this could have been a challenging technical issue.

Agreed.
They just have to make a video for each LI and check the romance flag to play the right video.

Modifié par Yannkee, 11 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[Aryss0410]

Hello Lovelies,

             After listening and considering all of your responses in the last few hours, Nick and I would like to have a heart to heart with you all. This comes not out of defense for Bioware, but out of concern for our cause. Honestly.

            Bioware, like any consumer driven company does not want to drive away its costumers aka us, the fans. With Mass Effect 3 they've done a pretty shoddy job of that, true, but they are driven by our money. Unfortunately for them and us, they don't have a crystal ball that can forsee our reactions to their decisions. They make a product that, in their eyes, is going to be sucsessful. Now, their reaction to our displeasure was initially severe, but they are now opening up to our opinions and ideas. And to continue with this kind of relationship, we need to go about it respectfully and we need to play the corporate game to some extent. I know, we shouldn't have to, but this is the way it has to be if we're going to be succsesful.

           This brings me to my next point, friends. Companies operate according to the bottom monetary line, which is determined by accounting. We don't need to fume about writers or animators when more often than not, it's the money that jails their ideas. We don't believe that the nonexsistant flash back scenes were due to flagging, as you've pointed out that's super easy to accomplish. As old and tiresome as it's getting to hear, it was most likely due to time and resources needed for animation, voice actors, testing, editing, and writing. After all, resources are being spread over, not only ME3 single player, but also multiplayer, the upcoming Mass Effect Vega movie, Dragon Age 3, and it's corolating movie: Dawn of the Seeker, and the books associated with both franchises.

             There's something that we forgot to mention to you. Along with being urged to keep showing our interest in romance dlc, we were told that romance dlc for sole characters is severely less likely than a group romance dlc. This is why splinter groups would almost assuredly cripple our cause. We need to work together and bring positive attention to our group. No tantrums or flaming, okay? That would hurt us all. To get the LI DLC we all want, we need to play their game. We need to show them that not only is there demand, but there are willing consumers, and that there will be money if they produce this DLC. And we need our voices to chime loud enough for not only Bioware to hear but also EA Games as well, who most likely has much to say about the allocation of resources.

                Make yourselves proud,
                              Aryss A and Nick B

[Emeraldfern]

And in agreement about the flashbacks, I mean:

 "within the constraints of which characters might still be alive due to the massive amount of decisions"
There were 8 romance interests in total for both ManShep and FemShep, doesn't the game have flags for who is alive and romanced? <_<
"Ah yes, "Plot flags" we have dismissed that claim"

[Edit] Didn't see the above post of yours Aryss, but yeah I see the point. It's always about the money aint it?

But that part of splinter groups have me in a bind somewhat, after all, the work on the Thane fanbook is already underway and I'll honestly say that it would feel like slap in the face to tell everyone who contributed,
"No we won't do this anymore"

Modifié par Emeraldfern, 11 avril 2012 - 06:40 .

[Aryss0410]

Absolutely, Emeraldfern! I've contributed to the Thane fanbook as well! This isn't a cease and desist. I'm sorry if it came across that way. We just feel that for the future we need to keep on making projects that include and focus on the entire group.

*Spoiler Alert*

The next project, The LI Tribute, will be unveiled in the next few days. It's super awesome so stay tuned for that as well!

*Edit for spelling

Modifié par Aryss0410, 11 avril 2012 - 06:48 .

[mnomaha]

Okay, this is going to sound snarky, and I'm sorry because I don't mean it to.

Maybe bw should have thought about spreading their resources a bit better instead of alienating their fanbase? Multiplayer...could have waited. And the animes? Seriously?

I'll support you how I can, but honestly, this is the way I feel about it right now. We have been made to suffer because they are all over the board and what? They can't maintain their current projects?

This is not directed at you Aryss or Nick. Just venting I guess.

[Aryss0410]

mnomaha wrote...

Okay, this is going to sound snarky, and I'm sorry because I don't mean it to.

Maybe bw should have thought about spreading their resources a bit better instead of alienating their fanbase? Multiplayer...could have waited. And the animes? Seriously?

I'll support you how I can, but honestly, this is the way I feel about it right now. We have been made to suffer because they are all over the board and what? They can't maintain their current projects?

This is not directed at you Aryss or Nick. Just venting I guess.

I absolutely agree with you, Mnomaha. I'm not trying to say what Bioware did was right in the least. I think they made some ill advised decisions. But to get what we want, as disgruntled lovers, we need show Bioware that we're serious about this, you know?
<3

[Emeraldfern]

Aryss0410 wrote...

Absolutely, Emeraldfern! I've contributed to the Thane fanbook as well! This isn't a cease and desist. I'm sorry if it came across that way. We just feel that for the future we need to keep on making projects that include and focus on the entire group.

*Spoiler Alert*

The next project, The LI Tribute, will be unveiled in the next few days. It's super awesome so stay tuned for that as well!

*Edit for spelling

LI Tribute...sounds...Awesome!

Yeah, I admit I got a tad worried there about the Thane fanbook. But I know the Miranda fans are also making a book of their own and as I posted earlier in this thread, I made layouts for the other L.I.'s as well (Jacob, Jack and Samara) if any of their fans wants them.

Maybe we could add a page/piece of text saying "This book supports romance DLC for Thane/Miranda/Jacob/Jack/Samara "(exempting whichever character that book is dedicated for) in the fanbooks or something similar idk.

[imp187]

I think the most important part (at least for me) is, that we have a chance here... by staying focused, staying united...by making our voice(s) heard... by telling them over and over what we want...
BUT all this in a polite and "professional" way...

I´m curious to learn what you guys have planned next and i´m pretty sure that most of us will be more then happy to support you as good as we can...

[coldwetn0se]

There is a catharsis to posting in these forums. I know for myself, I utilize this medium for that very reason. Same reason I write foul mouthed dialogues in my blog. I believe most who have had a "reaction" to what was gleaned by those that attended PAX, and have posted their thoughts/opinions, were using these threads as an outlet. If you felt attacked in any way, then for myself, I apologize. That was NOT the intent. I do still stand by my opinion, but I have every intention of continuing to aide any movement that wishes to bring certain content (i.e. LI content) to light, for Bioware to consider.

Many, I believe, are well aware of the finacial aspect that goes in to making games or subsequent DLC. Hell, some of us on the Thane Thread, for example, have even been putting our ideas out there on how to make LI content included with story/gameplay DLC, so as to make LI content more viable. A well rounded DLC that just HAPPENS to have LI content, would more likely get made than any individual LI DLC. That doesn't mean that some will still not wish for romance exclusive DLC. And so be it. If it makes them happy to come up with these ideas.....good for them. Same reason some people turn to FanFiction or Fan art.

Anyway......I think we all can look forward to new (and existing.....yea ThaneFanBook) projects that bring more people together for a common goal. Three cheers to all!

*EDIT*
Spelling....sheesh...

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 11 avril 2012 - 07:28 .

[blueshepard]

Hello all of you

First of course again: you have done such a lovely job - this whole thing is amazing at all!! I love it and will support you in any future cause

For the Thane Fanbook: since I have collected about 115 pages of contributions so far and there were so many people involved in this and put their work into it, it wouldn't feel right at all to cancel it. The idea came up about three weeks ago and so a lot of people contributed already. I really do not want to offense anyone of the other LI's... It isn't just because of all the contributors but also because of my own time and money I spent in it - I am doing nearly nothing else in my freetime for about 3 weeks - writing, collecting, editing, changing and making the binding was fun but also killed a lot time

But if this would help in fact: I could do something at the beginning or the ending of the book which connects to other future LI Books - something like this is the beginning more for Miranda, Jack, Jacob, Samara and so on are in work and will arrive you soon. I try to contact some people of the other books then, but until now I know only something concrete about Miranda and Jack, I haven't seen any other so far. If anyone knows anything or have an idea to connect all the stuff better please tell me - I really would do my best to support the other LIs as well.

I really think that Emeraldfern did such a great job aat the Layout and it would connect all of the books as well so i would love this idea at all!

Greetings and thanks again for all the work You are great

Dani

Modifié par yamainu1984, 11 avril 2012 - 08:03 .

[Hadeedak]

What if the love interest was dead (suicide mission, coup, ect)? What if the Shepard in question was a forever alone Shepard? ....That being said, if that was a concern, we should have had Hackett or someone instead just to minimize chaos.

[mythlover20]

yamainu1984 wrote...

Hello all of you

First of course again: you have done such a lovely job - this whole thing is amazing at all!! I love it and will support you in any future cause

For the Thane Fanbook: since I have collected about 115 pages of contributions so far and there were so many people involved in this and put their work into it, it wouldn't feel right at all to cancel it. The idea came up about three weeks ago and so a lot of people contributed already. I really do not want to offense anyone of the other LI's... It isn't just because of all the contributors but also because of my own time and money I spent in it - I am doing nearly nothing else in my freetime for about 3 weeks - writing, collecting, editing, changing and making the binding was fun but also killed a lot time

But if this would help in fact: I could do something at the beginning or the ending of the book which connects to other future LI Books - something like this is the beginning more for Miranda, Jack, Jacob, Samara and so on are in work and will arrive you soon. I try to contact some people of the other books then, but until now I know only something concrete about Miranda and Jack, I haven't seen any other so far. If anyone knows anything or have an idea to connect all the stuff better please tell me - I really would do my best to support the other LIs as well.

I really think that Emeraldfern did such a great job aat the Layout and it would connect all of the books as well so i would love this idea at all!

Greetings and thanks again for all the work You are great

Dani

Exactly Dani. I was starting to feel as if our own efforts were being dismissed or disregarded in favour for the letter LI book. Having a couple of pages at the back connecting this book with the others would be a good idea, and give that sense of coherency to the cause, but still, people are forgetting about us now. At least, that's how it feels to me.

Oh, before anyone gets up in arms (if there is indeed someone who would) I totally support the other ideas, I just wish we would get a little support from the others too.

[JECW]

mythlover20 wrote...

yamainu1984 wrote...

Hello all of you

First of course again: you have done such a lovely job - this whole thing is amazing at all!! I love it and will support you in any future cause

For the Thane Fanbook: since I have collected about 115 pages of contributions so far and there were so many people involved in this and put their work into it, it wouldn't feel right at all to cancel it. The idea came up about three weeks ago and so a lot of people contributed already. I really do not want to offense anyone of the other LI's... It isn't just because of all the contributors but also because of my own time and money I spent in it - I am doing nearly nothing else in my freetime for about 3 weeks - writing, collecting, editing, changing and making the binding was fun but also killed a lot time

But if this would help in fact: I could do something at the beginning or the ending of the book which connects to other future LI Books - something like this is the beginning more for Miranda, Jack, Jacob, Samara and so on are in work and will arrive you soon. I try to contact some people of the other books then, but until now I know only something concrete about Miranda and Jack, I haven't seen any other so far. If anyone knows anything or have an idea to connect all the stuff better please tell me - I really would do my best to support the other LIs as well.

I really think that Emeraldfern did such a great job aat the Layout and it would connect all of the books as well so i would love this idea at all!

Greetings and thanks again for all the work You are great

Dani

Exactly Dani. I was starting to feel as if our own efforts were being dismissed or disregarded in favour for the letter LI book. Having a couple of pages at the back connecting this book with the others would be a good idea, and give that sense of coherency to the cause, but still, people are forgetting about us now. At least, that's how it feels to me.

Oh, before anyone gets up in arms (if there is indeed someone who would) I totally support the other ideas, I just wish we would get a little support from the others too.

That's why we are still doing the Thane fanbook. So they don't forget.
I don't have a problem with doing something as a group, but I don't see anything wrong with doing something separate for our chosen LI.

Modifié par JECW, 11 avril 2012 - 08:51 .

[Totally Not Swaggacide]

Great words Aryss and Nick!

[blueshepard]

No harm taken here guys I justed wanted to explain myself So still support us and the LI projects and everything since they are ALL great and deserve this We can do this together

And I just think on it and work something out to connect the books Any ideas are welcome

And myth i am quite sure people won't forget us at all