86 réponses à ce sujet

[Blc949]

I always felt like the Batarians were a closer analogue to the middle east. No facts/info to back it up, but just what I always felt in my gut. My buddies in my gaming circle agreed.

[GordonNoob2010]

HinataKawaiiDesu wrote...

 This topic has appeared a lot, but I don't want to make a relation to how Cerberus is USA and the Quarians are muslims and they hate eachother like I've seen everywhere.
Many have also related the Quarians to the Arabic culture because of their head wear which looks like an Arabic scarf (Hijab), or because of their letters looking like Arabic caligraphy not to mention their arabic dialect, and the fact that they go on a pilgrimage like the trip to Mekkah
But that's not the only thing. I know a bit about the Arabic culture, and I have studied Tali's behavior in relation to the Arabic ways.

1. Tali says that a Quarian must always put anyone else before herself. That is true to Arabic culture too. You must always think about your people, not to mention your family and must always satisfy it no matter the consequences, even if it means your own misery.
2. In ME3 Tali mentions that her father would hate Shepard and would never allow their relationship. I take it's because he is a human, of course. In ismal you can't ever marry a person of a different religion, at least not if you're a woman. And generally, in Islam your father MUST accept the person you are in a relationship with.
3. Up until ME3 I actually thought "Keelah Salai" had the same meaning as the arabic "Insha'allah". They do have their same definitions, almost, that you use the word as both a gesture and a prayer to hope for the best future.

Call me crazy or thinking too much into it. I just think there's a strong relation. Unlike others that think Bioware were lazy to make a reference to the Arabs this way, I think they reflected the arabs in a very positive way if this might be true, and that they made a beautiful reflection.

You seem to have confused Arab culture with Islam. The two are complete opposites.

Arab culture: Beduin Tribes. Belly dancing girls. Nomadic Isolationists and polytheistic people. First people to isolate Alcohol.

So yes, I shall call you crazy.

[sasusori]

dallicant wrote...

sasusori wrote...

first off india did come up with zero, but the arab world essentially came up with modern day algebra and brought it to the west

next, hygien was far more pronounced in the arab culture then either roman or greek, it was alot more important and effective in arab culture then any that came before it

arab culture did not believe in slaves so it would be much harder for them to build anything of the magnatude of the romans did, but there designs were more advanced in a comparison

btw i mentioned that it was the mongols and not the huns that sacked baghdad five posts before you did, also by the time the arabs were amzingly tolerant, they were the first to tolerate other religions, they did have one rule (you have to believe in one god), but other than that, i think all it was, was a tax which is far better then anything europe had at the time (crusaders = convert or die), even after spain was conquered they left the core values there, and spain was part of the arab world for 800 yrs, they also were far more libral in female rights, nothing compared to what we have now, but at the time far better then the rest, what got the arabs to fall was the same as every other nation, a lazy population and greedy nobels

there is no religion i have ever read about that is only filled with hate, almost unversally they are about love (religions i have read about = christianity, judiusum, islam, budism) its not religions that make people intolerant, its ignorance, you want world be more tolerant try building schools there, intolerance has been linked to low income, and low education levels

Actually there was a thriving slave trade in the Middle East that continued well into the 19th century.  It was forbidden to enslave other Muslims, which may be what you were thinking of.  Slaves were taken from around the world, particularly Africa and the Caucasus.  

Tolerance in the medieval Islamic states tended to vary according to ruler, but they were by no means the first.  The Persian Empire (which followed Zoroastrianism) permitted subjects to worship as they pleased.  In Islamic countries, those who were not Muslims were effectively second-class citizens.  Jews and Christians, as People of the Book, were better off than pagans, but still faced strictures on the practice of their religion.

On the plus side, non-Muslims were also exempt from military service.  Though they had to pay an extra tax, it was not that bad of a deal by the standards of the time.  Of course, sometimes the state engaged in persecution of religious minorities.  

An interesting story: the Fatimid Caliphate in Egypt was Shi'ite.  The Shi'ites were a minority in Egypt (and were a minority pretty much anywhere at the time; they didn't get a majority state until Persia's Safavid Empire) and had to deal with a Sunni majority.  As a result, the Fatimids actually went out of their way to give Christians and Jews comparatively favorable treatment as a balancing act.  This mirrors the tactics used by the modern day leaders of Syria, who ascribe to the Alewi sect of Islam.

The great Islamic civilizations contributed immensely to humanity.  I find the architecture of the mosques and palaces, with their exquisite abstract designs, absolutely breathtaking.  Art and knowledge flourished in many of these caliphates, at least for a while.  However, don't make the mistake of seeing in them prototypes of modern liberal democracy.  Because the sad fact is, back in the Middle Ages, pretty much everyone was a jerk.

if i remember history correctly slavery was thriving the middle east prior to islam, and that is one of the thing that was severly lessend in comarison, i even remember the armies (mamluk i think?) were slaves that were freed for there service

also i didnt say it was how modern day democracy came out, but by comparison at the time it was better, i think i specifically mentioned that there was a tax and that you had to believe in one god, they werent tolerant of polythiesim at all, i believe somethings can be changed by education in the arab world, human and female rights in perticular are nowhere near what they could be, and the best way to change a population is to judge them based on there beliefs, and there are places in the Quran which show how wrong some of cultural treatment of females is, but based on the what ive read, the polythiesim is a harder sell, then female rights, it can be done i cant remember the exact passage, but there is one about polythiesim, the differance is the passage about female rights, as i remember it (and this is not an exact quote so no one tell me im trying to rewrite the Quran, im not)  is written more as a duty that muslims must do, while the polythiest passage is more of a dont do anything to them unless they do something to you, its a subtle differance but an important one in arab culture

Modifié par sasusori, 01 avril 2012 - 06:38 .

[dallicant]

sasusori wrote...

dallicant wrote...

sasusori wrote...

first off india did come up with zero, but the arab world essentially came up with modern day algebra and brought it to the west

next, hygien was far more pronounced in the arab culture then either roman or greek, it was alot more important and effective in arab culture then any that came before it

arab culture did not believe in slaves so it would be much harder for them to build anything of the magnatude of the romans did, but there designs were more advanced in a comparison

btw i mentioned that it was the mongols and not the huns that sacked baghdad five posts before you did, also by the time the arabs were amzingly tolerant, they were the first to tolerate other religions, they did have one rule (you have to believe in one god), but other than that, i think all it was, was a tax which is far better then anything europe had at the time (crusaders = convert or die), even after spain was conquered they left the core values there, and spain was part of the arab world for 800 yrs, they also were far more libral in female rights, nothing compared to what we have now, but at the time far better then the rest, what got the arabs to fall was the same as every other nation, a lazy population and greedy nobels

there is no religion i have ever read about that is only filled with hate, almost unversally they are about love (religions i have read about = christianity, judiusum, islam, budism) its not religions that make people intolerant, its ignorance, you want world be more tolerant try building schools there, intolerance has been linked to low income, and low education levels

Actually there was a thriving slave trade in the Middle East that continued well into the 19th century.  It was forbidden to enslave other Muslims, which may be what you were thinking of.  Slaves were taken from around the world, particularly Africa and the Caucasus.  

Tolerance in the medieval Islamic states tended to vary according to ruler, but they were by no means the first.  The Persian Empire (which followed Zoroastrianism) permitted subjects to worship as they pleased.  In Islamic countries, those who were not Muslims were effectively second-class citizens.  Jews and Christians, as People of the Book, were better off than pagans, but still faced strictures on the practice of their religion.

On the plus side, non-Muslims were also exempt from military service.  Though they had to pay an extra tax, it was not that bad of a deal by the standards of the time.  Of course, sometimes the state engaged in persecution of religious minorities.  

An interesting story: the Fatimid Caliphate in Egypt was Shi'ite.  The Shi'ites were a minority in Egypt (and were a minority pretty much anywhere at the time; they didn't get a majority state until Persia's Safavid Empire) and had to deal with a Sunni majority.  As a result, the Fatimids actually went out of their way to give Christians and Jews comparatively favorable treatment as a balancing act.  This mirrors the tactics used by the modern day leaders of Syria, who ascribe to the Alewi sect of Islam.

The great Islamic civilizations contributed immensely to humanity.  I find the architecture of the mosques and palaces, with their exquisite abstract designs, absolutely breathtaking.  Art and knowledge flourished in many of these caliphates, at least for a while.  However, don't make the mistake of seeing in them prototypes of modern liberal democracy.  Because the sad fact is, back in the Middle Ages, pretty much everyone was a jerk.

if i remember history correctly slavery was thriving the middle east prior to islam, and that is one of the thing that was severly lessend in comarison, i even remember the armies (mamluk i think?) were slaves that were freed for there service

also i didnt say it was how modern day democracy came out, but by comparison at the time it was better, i think i specifically mentioned that there was a tax and that you had to believe in one god, they werent tolerant of polythiesim at all, i believe somethings can be changed by education in the arab world, human and female rights in perticular are nowhere near what they could be, and the best way to change a population is to judge them based on there beliefs, and there are places in the Quran which show how wrong some of cultural treatment of females is, but based on the what ive read, the polythiesim is a harder sell, then female rights, it can be done i cant remember the exact passage, but there is one about polythiesim, the differance is the passage about female rights, as i remember it (and this is not an exact quote so no one tell me im trying to rewrite the Quran, im not)  is written more as a duty that muslims must do, while the polythiest passage is more of a dont do anything to them unless they do something to you, its a subtle differance but an important one in arab culture

Fair enough, I apologize if I misunderstood your post. 

You are correct, the Mamelukes were soldiers of slave origin.  However, to get those slaves, their owners had to participate in the slave trade.  I don't know how it compares to slavery in the pre-Islamic Middle East, so there could well be a substantial difference.  However, the slave trade from Africa to the Middle East continued well into the 19th century, untilt it was stopped by the British.  

Treatment of monotheistic religious minorities did vary.  Though Christians and Jews could become quite well-off, they faced restrictions.  Christians, for instsance, were generally not permitted to evangelize.  Spreading the word is an extremely important part of the Christian faith (and the Islamic faith as well, if I'm not mistaken), so you can see how it might cause friction.

Thanks for explaining the distinction the Quran makes.  I have never read the Quran, though what you say matches with much of what I've heard.

[SNascimento]

I never associated the quarians with any particular culture.. in particular they never reminded me of arabs.

[Dodgeman]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

Chemistry, the *science* of it, came from the Middle East. The number system we use today, with its positional notation and concept of zero, came from the Middle East. While European medicine involved sticking leeches on people and cracking skulls open, Middle Eastern medicine was discovering the importance of hygiene on the spread of infectious diseases, among other advances.
While European masons were still trying to figure out how to build elaborate structures out of stone by guesswork, Middle Eastern engineering relied on mathematics and developed the dome.
While Europeans were still looking up at the stars and trying to figure out what they 'meant', Middle Eastern observers were developing the study of astronomy as a science.
The sacking of Baghdad by the Huns, and the destruction wreaked among the scholars gathered there, are the primary reason that the Muslim world lost its edge in science.

I though the primary reason for "losing the edge" in science is most likely credited to ideas and works such as "incoherence of the philosophers" by al-Ghazali, where the islamic philisophy sets a path where scientific inquiry is undermined. We should also remember that this is around 1000 years ago, and a war or two shouldnt really put scientific advancement to a full stop. It's more like a cultural problem. Imho. sorry for the off-topic input.

Modifié par Dodgeman, 01 avril 2012 - 07:28 .

[Auriel]

Tali does not have a Middle Eastern accent, at least not on purpose. I read an interview with her voice actor, and she said something along the lines of trying to mimic a Eastern European accent for her audition.

I go with the gypsies.

[Nizzemancer]

Cazlee wrote...

1,2 happen in a lot of cultures and 3 is just irrelevant.
Trying to compare them to the middle east is just ignorant/offensive especially considering how stupid the quarians are.

I'd say that m-e's and quarians are very much on the same level when it comes to being stupid.

[IliaLo]

Auriel wrote...

Tali does not have a Middle Eastern accent, at least not on purpose. I read an interview with her voice actor, and she said something along the lines of trying to mimic a Eastern European accent for her audition.

I go with the gypsies.

Agree

[Nizzemancer]

sasusori wrote...

Human - American
Quarians - Middle East (muslim/jewish)
Geth - Borg/Data
Asari - Amazonian
Krogan - Mongolian
Turians - Roman
Salarians - Indian
Drell - Budist

Human - Westerners
Quarians & Geth = Israelites & Palestinians but it's debateble which is which, I'd say Geth = Israel, they're militarily dominant and supposedly the ones who "stole land".
Asari - Amazons (warrior-women who just want to live in peace but aren't afraid of fighting)
Krogan - Vikings (ranging from being waring barbarians to mercs and poets)
Turians - Indians (because of the whole cast system and militaristic culture - india vs pakistan)
Salarians - not sure, highly scientific, good-natured, even-tempered/collected, maybe Asians?
Drell - soooo not Buddhists, but I don't really have a counter-proposal.

[Shallyah]

I've always thought Quarians are more like a "gypsies" or "romani" culture. They are not trusted in the galaxy and most people assume they're thieves. I remember in Mass Effect 2 there is a side quest with a volus blaming a quarian of stealing a credit chip, and even the citadel guard is heavily biased against the Quarian, who turned out to be innocent.

Mostly a people that keep to themselves and their own traditions, and priorize the whole over the individual. Tali mentions numerous times how a Quarian must always look to the flotilla first, and that's definitely the mindset of gipsy cultures. There are other details such as Tali mentioning her fathr would've hated Shepard. Also a gypsy thing that you can only marry other gypsies, and in any case, you'd need the Patriarch's approval.

That they're in conflict with the Geth and wear hoods doesn't automatically make them a copy of real life factions which are in conflict with others.

Modifié par Shallyah, 01 avril 2012 - 01:47 .

[Stonesoundjam]

And my Femshep remains unrequited in her love for Tali by the code of Tassadar, executor of Aiur.


Oops... Mixed up my canon there..