216 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystiq6]

Aaleel wrote...

I don't know why anyone would think it was so great. If the IT was planned it means that Bioware intentionally sold players a game with no ending and are going to charge said players to get the ending of the game.

So no ending to the vanilla game at all is the greatest ending of all time??

No, it's not. I agree with you that what we have now is crap. If the intention is IT, then the idea of the ending is one of the best endings I've seen to a video game but the execution leaves it as one of the worst. I would be very pissed if any DLC concerning the ending that isn't like a mini-expansion in scope costs more than $0. And even then I will probably still feel cheated.

They got what they wanted, we're talking about it, but it's not for a good reason. People talked about the ending to Inception but people were ultimately satisfied with it.

[Dire Wombat]

No.

Indoctrination theory would have been a brilliant IDEA for an ending, and it's a great fanfic "patch" for what we actually got.

But if IT were what the writers intended (it's not), the ending as it actually exists still wouldn't be brilliant. It still wouldn't include an ACTUAL ending, rolling the credits at the start of the climax. And the twist would be badly written. A good twist ending makes the viewer take a bunch of things they THOUGHT made sense, or things they ignored, and realize that they make more sense/have meaning seen through the lens of the twist.

When the viewer says "Oh, I guess all those plot holes and bad writing actually weren't, because they all happened in a dream"... that's just bad writing.

[Hydralysk]

SwobyJ wrote...
I'm not bothered by a paid DLC of $5-15 as long as:
-it's lengthy (at least 5 hours just for ending material, like Shadow Broker or Arrival)
-it has more than just the ending (more N7/co-op missions, multiplay stuff, weapons, story content to flesh things out)

Err I don't think either of those were 5 hours, Arrival was around 2 hours for me, Shadow Broker maybe 3.

Honestly though the length doesn't concern me so much as the quality. If it was $5-$15 and only 30 minutes longer but filled with a huge climatic showdown with the reapers vs your war assets in beautiful CG movies and acutally had different endings with closure I'd be happy.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 31 mars 2012 - 11:14 .

[Fulgrim88]

SwobyJ wrote...

Fulgrim88 wrote...

It's also the biggest ripoff of all time.

Day one dlc AND an incomplete ending? Certainly genius. But only from a sales perspective.
Might end up hurting them more than it gained though

I'm not bothered by a free DLC as long as:
-there's closure and epicness
-it doesn't feel just 'tacked on'


I'm not bothered by a paid DLC of $5-15 as long as:
-it's lengthy (at least 5 hours just for ending material, like Shadow Broker or Arrival)
-it has more than just the ending (more N7/co-op missions, multiplay stuff, weapons, story content to flesh things out)

I'm not bothered by a paid $25 content as long as:
-it's like a freakin mini-expansion, with a whole big fight against the Reapers
-there's clear consequences for ALL of my major choices. War Assets my ass.

So if they want to be 'lazy' about it, go ahead, I'm ok with that. But it has to be free DLC for me to care.

Fair enough.

But I think that the chances for dlc of the type you (and probably I) would pay for is pretty low.

Here's hoping that what we get will at least be free. It won't make the bad taste go away, but it also won't feel like such a blatant ripoff. In any case, I don't think they deserve praise for something like this. It hurts their sales, it hurts their reputation, it hurts their community....and there's really not much to gain

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 31 mars 2012 - 11:15 .

[Aiyie]

I was impressed with the ending of Bioshock... that whole "Would you kindly?" and "A man chooses, a slave obeys." thing was meta gaming on a level i hadn't experienced before.

If indoc was the same meta game thing, because after all, we only see things from Shep's perspective and nobody realizes they're being indoctrinated when its happening... it would have been absolutely brilliant.  the sort of thing to put Bioware in the history books.

but...

the time for Bioware to have announced it was all a meta-game twist and tell us about the free dlc, that would be necessary to make this work from the start, has come and gone.

now, to me, indoc theory is simply the best way for Bioware to give us a post-starchild ending that makes sense... because i can't realistically see them doing a complete do-over.

[Mystiq6]

Dire Wombat wrote...

No.

Indoctrination theory would have been a brilliant IDEA for an ending, and it's a great fanfic "patch" for what we actually got.

But if IT were what the writers intended (it's not), the ending as it actually exists still wouldn't be brilliant. It still wouldn't include an ACTUAL ending, rolling the credits at the start of the climax. And the twist would be badly written. A good twist ending makes the viewer take a bunch of things they THOUGHT made sense, or things they ignored, and realize that they make more sense/have meaning seen through the lens of the twist.

When the viewer says "Oh, I guess all those plot holes and bad writing actually weren't, because they all happened in a dream"... that's just bad writing.

You bring up a good point. The ending took place in the middle of action, which is what left me in basically stasis as the ending was playing and then confused for a while after the credits began to roll. And then depressed after I saw the final scene and the "Commander Shepard has become a legend. We love you, now buy some DLC."

[effortname]

Ratham wrote...

What if they roll with the Indoc Theory but didn't originally plan it? Then the fans gave them a get out of jail free card. Of course even if this is true they'll still say it was planned all along.

Pretty much. Bioware screwed up massively and they get a free lifeline to pretend they didn't. They'd be dumb not to take it.

[Aaleel]

The only way the IT would have been great is if the credits had started rolling, and then all of a sudden started going in reverse and everything went back or something and you woke up on the hill if you chose destroy and broke the attempt. Then you went on and finished the game.

But the main reason I think they can't go with the IT is because it would be saying that they sold the vanilla game without and ending. People could and should be outraged if that's the case. The ending of a 5 year, 3 game trilogy should not come in the form of DLC I'm sorry, that's just absurd.

[Aiyie]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

It's also the biggest ripoff of all time.

Day one dlc AND an incomplete ending? Certainly genius. But only from a sales perspective.
Might end up hurting them more than it gained though

if it was intentional from the get go, they woulda needed to have announced free dlc to give us the real finale long ago.  as it is, they've already said the ending we got was their original intention, but based on feedback they're going to do... something.

rachellouise wrote...

'it was all a dream' is far from the best ending, and one generally avoided. I hope they clear some things up..but I would prefer something else to that

i don't look at the concept as the same thing as the whole "it was a dream" schtick. 

the only perspective we, as the players ever get, is Shepard's view.  since indoctrination is one of those things you don't realize is happening to you...

if we, the players, had realized what was happening to Shepard, it wouldn't have had the same impact as if we'd found out after.

letting players know Shepard is being indoctrinated is no different than telling players who Revan really is at the beginning of Kotor.

[Smiley556]

I believe indoc theory is correct, and I think its the worst bloody idea ever. I preordered the game of a series I loved, played through it, and was hoping for an epic conclusion. But no, Bioware rather tortures me with the speculative 'ending' and weeks of waiting listening to some PR spin. I cannot fathom how you can think of this as the best ending ever.

[Tessir Kaerak]

Just watched some youtube video detailing the Indoc Theory. It convinced me.


I wasn't up in arms over the ending before and you know what? I'm feel even better about it. If this is indeed their intention then I agree with OP. BW has been throwing WTF moments out since you turned out be Revan in KOTOR. A new level this is.
You don't still have an "I hate Damon Lindleoff and JJ Abrams" facebook page too, right?

[Ticondurus]

Because IT was a fan creation, BW won't go for it. They want their own writers to make the fix. And, I believe they will stand by the endings and just end up clarifying a few things. But I don't believe it will be the IT route.

Edit: The problem is that actually a minority people liked the ending.  They can't change it now.  Post-ending DLC is the best we can hope for.

Modifié par Ticondurus, 31 mars 2012 - 11:26 .

[Esquin]

If Indoctrination theory is correct then it is not even close to the best ending of all time. Why?

BECAUSE IT ISN'T AN ENDING. Yes it is a great concept but it's not an ending. It doesn't end the story or provide closure. If the IT is true then it means Bioware sold an incomplete game. I'm really not sure why so many people have a hard time comprehending this concept. If IT makes the whole starchild section sit better with you then that's great. But how can any of you call it an ending?

[Haggard 511]

Granting that the IT is correct, yes it WOULD have been the best ending of all time, IF I didn't have to pay to play the last part of my game in the form of DLC. IF this is the case, the ending being "cut" in order to resell as DLC (which they will never do now, they will say they listened to the fans) then it is the biggest loss to the gaming community and sets a new precedent of scuminess.

[magikbbg]

I'd agree except that why hurt ur business to do this? Sure you take big risks to gain big rewards. But still, it seems highly unlikely this was planned -

[Justicar-Ilua]

 "best ending of all time"

Modifié par Justicar-Ilua, 31 mars 2012 - 11:29 .

[Smiley556]

iVitriol wrote...

Smiley556 wrote...

I believe indoc theory is correct, and I think its the worst bloody idea ever. I preordered the game of a series I loved, played through it, and was hoping for an epic conclusion. But no, Bioware rather tortures me with the speculative 'ending' and weeks of waiting listening to some PR spin. I cannot fathom how you can think of this as the best ending ever.

It's better than the cluster**** we got.

- Hold the line. -

It makes more sense then the cluster**** we got, I wouldnt say its better. Disregarding possible DLC or whatever (ie. the state we are all in now) indoctrination is a worse ending. It gives even less choice and closure. I wish I could believe in the god kid space magic ending but, alas, I base my beliefs on evidence, not on what I like more.

[comrade gando]

Really nothing is stopping them from charging us for the ending. The question is: will they?

They've really got us by the nuts on this one, such an epic story and to see the true finale, you must get the DLC.

A lot of money to be made from this, but if they do charge for it, it will damage their integrity definitely. Bioware can either come out of this as story telling champions or greedy opportunists. Sort of like a Paragon/Renegade choice up to them. Here's to hoping they pick the paragon and give us the ending we all earned at this point.