1291 réponses à ce sujet

[Hydralysk]

Garlador wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

For those saying that the future is more important than seeing what becomes of our friends/lovers/crew, what future is that exactly? The future where the Sol system is now overpopulated with the various races of the galaxy? The future where the Quarians will assuredly die, stranded in a system without the resources to sustain them? The future where an already overpopulated and now devastated Earth will be completely consumed by the aliens stranded there? The future where the Asari and Turian homeworlds are just as devastated as Earth? Or the future where space flight and inter-system travel is no more so efforts to remedy any of these things will be at worst impossible and at best gravely stifled?
The ending didn't just kill Shepard. It killed the future of the galaxy we spent 3 games getting to know and trying to save.

Yeah. I feel like, instead of giving people no future, we just gave them a terrible future. At this point, being harvested by Reapers almost seems like a mercy compared to the slow, long, drawn-out suffering we've doomed everyone to.

It pretty much feels like we shoot the galaxy with a poison dart instead of putting a bullet in it's head. Yeah you aren't instantly killed, but you aren't exactly better off.

[Dendio1]

Garrus calibrations...of course!
The missing link!

Modifié par Dendio1, 01 avril 2012 - 04:14 .

[ShepnTali]

Lol... Ghandi? Hear that renegade Shep, you're now Ghandi. No.

[Quietness]

vivaladricas wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Um... well originally it was supposed to be a super weapon that could destroy the Reapers. Specifically the Reapers. With a giant beam or something, I don't know.
A "Reapers off" button I guess. Maybe if Garrus had calibrated it it would have worked just fine.

Honestly I don't know, I don't think we're being told much about it. Or maybe I wasn't paying attention.

nice  LOL!  glad i wasnt drinking when i read that.  

I can only view it as: the writers made the enemy too overpowered.  They dream up a superpowered gun, Sheps energy and his alone makes it work.... yeah.  They needed another 6 months to write this stuff proper.  

Virus idea for the reapers would have been fine.  give them aids.

Conrad Verner is Jeff Goldblum IN 
Independence Day: REAPER

[Vhalkyrie]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Gandhi would never advocate the use of a weapon that would destroy not only the Brits, but also everyone in India so that one day in the future India would be free of the Brits.

The choice Shepard is asked to make obliterates the Reapers, and also all the planetary life in the galaxies in which s/he was supposed to be fighting for.

*rolleyes* The point being made is that people can and do fight for principles - it's not about Shepard using peaceful protests and hunger strikes a la Gandhi to force the Reapers into withdrawing. But hey, good going on that completely tangential point of yours which has nothing to do with the issue of why people fight and what their motivations are. And again, Shepard clearly doesn't destroy all planetary life in the galaxy (or the universe) based on the evidence. I see definite proof in the cinematics and coda of our survival, whereas you don't (or want to willfully ignore it, which is fine with me).

Hardly tangential since you used it as an example.  Can you address the point made without ad hominem?

[Karrie788]

Dendio1 wrote...

Garrus calibrations...of course!
The missing link!

Well, yeah, it ALL goes down to Garrus' calibrations in the end.

... at least it should.

[Powerpetzi]

Persephone wrote...

Powerpetzi wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Can someone please just explain 1 thing to me...

What was the point of the crucible?

What exactly did it do?

It ... it .. produced space magic in 1 of 3 colors... *sobs*

No, it did not. There IS more to it than "Just three colors", there are major differences to these choices. They all just leave me with a sense of bitterness.

I'm less concerned about the colors and more about the space magic part.
On the major differences ... yes, the Star Child told me about them. But I didn't care about the so-called problem and its so-called solutions. Those weren't the things my Shep was fighting for over 3 games (well actually the Destroy option was, sorta, so I took that, but that's beside the point).
Fact is, Star Child threw the old central conflict out of the window and introduced a completely new central conflict out of nowhere - in 14 lines of dialogue and 5 minutes game time, no less.
If I was supposed to care about this new thing, too bad, I don't. So the 3 different solutions, no matter how "impactful" and "different" they may be, don't do anything for me either. The fact that they used the same cut scene for all 3 didn't help either, I guess. Even though I intellectually know that the choices have wildly different implications and ramifications, emotionally they boil down to the same. Three colors. And space magic.

[sammysoso]

Hell yes OP, hell yes

[Omega-202]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

''Determined pessimist''? The hell does that mean? Let's examine the facts a little bit...

1. In 2 of 3 endings, the Citadel blows up. By every single law of physics in existence, this means Earth is doomed, because the explosion and then crash of an object of 7.11 billion tons of mass will absolutely devastate Earth. Not to mention the tons of debris from the space battle. Or the Reaper carcasses in Destroy. The planet supposed to now house all those stranded races. Is doomed. Happy future much?

2. No race save maybe the Geth and very very maybe Quarians will ever see home again. The problems of conventionnal space travel, including food, fuel and the need to discharge drive cores, make such a voyage impossible. They are stranded. On a doomed planet. Happy future?

3. Outlying colonies are doomed. Many are not self-sufficient, and/or have ships that can get them elsewhere and/or the capability to build more. This also includes death world such as Tuchanka. Which we spent a good deal of the game saving. To see it doomed regardless. Happy future?

4. As far as we know, the damn Yaghs are the next in line for spaceflight. They are even worse than the Krogans.

5.  I don't care what Stargazer implies, the crew (whose survival is, according to the codex and basic physics again, is impossible, but I digress) is also doomed. Tali and Garrus will starve. There are, what, 20 other people on the ship? Nowhere near enough to sustain a population. That's not even getting in the implication of Cortez and Traynor being possibly forced to, erm, participate in the effort .

6.  The galaxy cannot develop an equivalent to the Mass Relays. The knowledge and ressources required are simply beyond our means (before you pull the Crucible in this, we had the plans and a galaxy's worth of ressources to build it). We are stuck in short-range, risky space travel. Until Helium-3 and/or eezo runs out in proximity. And, yet again, logically Earth is dust in 2 endings out of 3.

At this point, it's more like the pro-enders are hopelessly determined optimists when they say the future is bright. Refute every single point I made and then we can debate. Until then, I have not seen one good argument from you guys.

Ignoring the fact that I firmly support Indoctrination Theory and not because I hold out hope for a better ending, you're comparing the results with some sort of BS fantasy ending.  You can't compare what we have to a "and they lived happily ever after".  You have to look at what WOULD have happened if the Reapers were not stopped.  

1.  Yes, Earth is in bad shape and its very likely that it may be uninhabitable.  That's one planet.  Thessia, Palaven, Sur'Kesh, Tuchanka, Rannoch, Dekunna, Kahje, Eden Prime (and possibly more human colonies), etc. are in a lot better shape.  Sacrifices were inevitable.  Look at the alternative: they could all have been destroyed and every being on every one of those worlds could be dead or harvested.  

2.  The armies are stranded in Sol.  The civilians of each of those races is on their homeworlds.  The militaries of each species knew that volunteering to fight the Reapers could have and probably would result in their deaths.  They accepted that otherwise they wouldn't have volunteered.  A soldier has to know that they could die for their cause and especially against odds like the Reapers, they had to know that they probably would die.  Being stranded/dying due to being cut off in Sol and never seeing home again was something that they had to make peace with before volunteering to fight.

3. Tuchanka is not doomed.  A lot of colonies are not doomed.  The Krogan were able to live on their world a for LONG period between bombing themselves into a new stone age and the Salarians coming to uplift them.  Now with a cured Genophage and the leadership of Eve and the sacrifice of Wrex to motivate them, its likely they may get their act together.  Human colonies were mostly on garden worlds and were centered on agriculture.  They're in the best situation to survive.  They've got better technology than we do today and a pristine environment to develop in.  They don't need to import food, the larger colonies had fully staffed medical facilities and colonies like Bekenstein, Terra Nova and Elysium had manufacturing facilities as well.  

4. Yeah, the Yahgs may be next to get into space...but like everyone else, they're stuck in their system.  What difference does that make?  

5. All I saw walk out of my ship on my playthroughs have been Joker, EDI and Liara.  I know some people may believe that ALL squadmates are on the ship because its possible to see them all walk out under certain conditions, but I choose to accept that Garrus and Tali were not on there.  

Also, whats the alternative for them?  They're on Earth and starve?  What about the rest of the Normandy crew?  If you don't destroy/control/fuse the Reapers, then they're dead anyway.  The Normandy would have gotten destroyed eventually in the rest of the purge as the cycle continued and the crew would have all died.  Either get killed by the Reapers for failing, end up on a garden world or get stranded on a destroyed Earth.  Take your pick.

6. The knowledge is not outside possibility.  The Prothean scientists on Ilos developed the Conduit in relative isolation in a secret base outside of contact with the rest of the Empire.  Forget the fact that you don't just have one society working on the problem.  Asari, Turian, Salarian, Human scientists can all still work in conjunction on the problem.

Communication is knocked out due to the loss of the relays you say?  NOPE!  Mass Effect 3 shoves Quantum Entanglement communication down our throats with Traynor and the new Comm room (which was based on TIM's QE communication method in ME2).  And if you're to tell me that the Normandy has QE send/receive pairs on Earth, the Citadel, Thessia and Palaven and yet each capital planet as a whole didn't have a few dozen QE pairs to each of the other capital worlds then you're just being obtuse.  They may be stranded, but they can all still talk to each other.  

Every point refuted.  

I wish the end was better, but sometimes you accept what you're given as the choice made by the creator.  Mac and Casey chose this as the message they wanted to send.  That's it.  Its a valid story to tell.  If you don't like it, that's too bad, but you just have to accept it.  

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

Yaaaaaah, all I read was this.

"I don't like the ending"

[Reofeir]

 I think this is the fatal flaw in the ending. I like the endings, yes, but I think this is the biggest problem of it. I tend to disagree with you, the angry one, but it does seem where bioware did drop the ball.
For those who did fight for their friends don't know what happens to them. We can *speculate* on what happend to them, good or bad, but we don't know. We don't know what happend to them. We don't know if they die or live or what. Maybe people would like the ending more if it seemed happy or at least explained what is going on.

For me if the ending was fixed up so we know what exactly happend (and at least are given hints on what the future is) then it will go from ok to great for me. Though I do understand how this makes anyone hate this ending.

[Sohlito]

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

That. AngryOne, yous good peoples.

[Rolando93]

Garlador wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

For those saying that the future is more important than seeing what becomes of our friends/lovers/crew, what future is that exactly? The future where the Sol system is now overpopulated with the various races of the galaxy? The future where the Quarians will assuredly die, stranded in a system without the resources to sustain them? The future where an already overpopulated and now devastated Earth will be completely consumed by the aliens stranded there? The future where the Asari and Turian homeworlds are just as devastated as Earth? Or the future where space flight and inter-system travel is no more so efforts to remedy any of these things will be at worst impossible and at best gravely stifled?
The ending didn't just kill Shepard. It killed the future of the galaxy we spent 3 games getting to know and trying to save.

Yeah. I feel like, instead of giving people no future, we just gave them a terrible future. At this point, being harvested by Reapers almost seems like a mercy compared to the slow, long, drawn-out suffering we've doomed everyone to.

Why does everyone assume that everyone will die just because there are no mass relays? The galactic fleet has the quarians. Not only are they masters at salvaging and repurposing old ships, they apparently know how to grow food on their ships. Salarians can multiply the output with some agricultural engineering. And I'm sure krogan are good for fertilizer.

Modifié par Rolando93, 01 avril 2012 - 04:21 .

[petipas4141]

well said as always

[The Angry One]

Rolando93 wrote...


Why does everyone assume that everyone will die just because there are no mass relays? The galactic fleet has the quarians. Not only are they masters at salvaging and repurposing old ships, they apparently know how to grow food on their ships. Salarians can multiply the output with some agricultural engineering. And I'm sure krogan are good for fertilizer.

Because Quarians are not magicians, and their food can only feed the Turians and themselves, and it's doubtful they have enough for both. They're also cut off from badly needed fuel and supplies.

[Velocithon]

Word.

[Made Nightwing]

Dammit! YES! Even if Shepard doesn't make it, I want to see Liara finding new designs for Mass Relays on Mars, I want to see Ash moving on with her life, I want to see Tali and Garrus, I WANT MY FRIENDS TO BE HAPPY!

[Dorrieb]

Too right!

[Giggles_Manically]

Hells yes.

ME3 had an ending written by some drunken hobo off the street Bioware fed a sandwhich to.
That or Bioware has no clue what its fans want.

Or Hack Walters and Hudson just wanted to push all the old fans out to make sure only MP fans remain for the next Mass Effect game:
Call of Mass Duty Effect 4.

Now with map packs!

[parrmi22]

I think the most important point being brought up is that the GALAXY WAS LITERALLY DESTROYED . . . figuratively, anyway. Every species is basically trapped on whatever world they're on, the entire fleets of some species are trapped in Sol, the characters we love are trapped and will likely die on some jungle planet, Shepard is dead and will never be with her LI. Defeating the Reapers left everyone in a worse position than they were in while the Reapers were actually in the galaxy.

I dunno about you, but I didn't fight a war so some old guy could tell his annoying son stories about me thousands of years later. I fought for Tali's home, for my LI, for a rebuilt Thessia, for revenge for all the people who died. NONE of that is possible now, thanks to the endings. What a damn shame.

[Navywife64]

Agree 100%

[curufinwe03]

Rolando93 wrote...

Garlador wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

For those saying that the future is more important than seeing what becomes of our friends/lovers/crew, what future is that exactly? The future where the Sol system is now overpopulated with the various races of the galaxy? The future where the Quarians will assuredly die, stranded in a system without the resources to sustain them? The future where an already overpopulated and now devastated Earth will be completely consumed by the aliens stranded there? The future where the Asari and Turian homeworlds are just as devastated as Earth? Or the future where space flight and inter-system travel is no more so efforts to remedy any of these things will be at worst impossible and at best gravely stifled?
The ending didn't just kill Shepard. It killed the future of the galaxy we spent 3 games getting to know and trying to save.

Yeah. I feel like, instead of giving people no future, we just gave them a terrible future. At this point, being harvested by Reapers almost seems like a mercy compared to the slow, long, drawn-out suffering we've doomed everyone to.

Why does everyone assume that everyone will die just because there are no mass relays? The galactic fleet has the quarians. Not only are they masters at salvaging and repurposing old ships, they apparently know how to grow food on their ships. Salarians can multiply the output with some agricultural engineering. And I'm sure krogan are good for fertilizer.

Well, i don't know. Maybe it has something to do with the debris of  a 13 kilometer long spacestation that are falling down on Earth. A station with an invincible hull, which will probably weather the atmospheric entry.