1291 réponses à ce sujet

[Omega-202]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Dammit! YES! Even if Shepard doesn't make it, I want to see Liara finding new designs for Mass Relays on Mars, I want to see Ash moving on with her life, I want to see Tali and Garrus, I WANT MY FRIENDS TO BE HAPPY!

That's not always reality.  

But regardless of that fact, whats to stop you from believing that?  Who came out of the Normandy for you?  Did you expressly see all of those characters get marooned?  If not, they might not have been there.  

[AnsinJung]

Zenor wrote...

 I think this is the fatal flaw in the ending. I like the endings, yes, but I think this is the biggest problem of it. I tend to disagree with you, the angry one, but it does seem where bioware did drop the ball.
For those who did fight for their friends don't know what happens to them. We can *speculate* on what happend to them, good or bad, but we don't know. We don't know what happend to them. We don't know if they die or live or what. Maybe people would like the ending more if it seemed happy or at least explained what is going on.

For me if the ending was fixed up so we know what exactly happend (and at least are given hints on what the future is) then it will go from ok to great for me. Though I do understand how this makes anyone hate this ending.

It's probably better that they screwed up completely so they have the most desire to fix it completely (assuming that happens, otherwise, anything is better).

Modifié par AnsinJung, 01 avril 2012 - 04:30 .

[Velocithon]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

ME3 destroyed the Reapers in terms of antagonists. 

They should have been left a mystery, not turned into some ridiculous plot device five minutes before the end. 

Exactly.

Before the god child they were mysterious machines whose origin was unknown and masters of the universe. They were fearsome.

Then some god child pops up all like "yeah I created those guys....somehow....i tell them what to do"


Well...Reapers. LOL.

[The Angry One]

Omega-202 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Dammit! YES! Even if Shepard doesn't make it, I want to see Liara finding new designs for Mass Relays on Mars, I want to see Ash moving on with her life, I want to see Tali and Garrus, I WANT MY FRIENDS TO BE HAPPY!

That's not always reality.  

But regardless of that fact, whats to stop you from believing that?  Who came out of the Normandy for you?  Did you expressly see all of those characters get marooned?  If not, they might not have been there.  

SPECULATION!

[Nathan_41]

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Why does everyone assume that everyone will die just because there are no mass relays? The galactic fleet has the quarians. Not only are they masters at salvaging and repurposing old ships, they apparently know how to grow food on their ships. Salarians can multiply the output with some agricultural engineering. And I'm sure krogan are good for fertilizer.

Because Quarians are not magicians, and their food can only feed the Turians and themselves, and it's doubtful they have enough for both. They're also cut off from badly needed fuel and supplies.

Do we actually know for a fact that the Quarian Liveships took part in the battle? I don't recall from memory.

[shepskisaac]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

2. No race save maybe the Geth and very very maybe Quarians will ever see home again. The problems of conventionnal space travel, including food, fuel and the need to discharge drive cores, make such a voyage impossible. They are stranded. On a doomed planet. Happy future?

This one ain't true. Quarians obviously didn't take everyone to the final battle. Why would they? Kids/eldery logically stayed on Rannoch. Turians, Krogans, Asari also obviously didn't bring the entire populations to the final battle. Yes, those who are on Earth are most likely stuck. But the asari race will continue to exist on Thessia, same for Krogans on Tuchanka, Turians on Palaven etc.

[Vhalkyrie]

Rolando93 wrote...

Why does everyone assume that everyone will die just because there are no mass relays? The galactic fleet has the quarians. Not only are they masters at salvaging and repurposing old ships, they apparently know how to grow food on their ships. Salarians can multiply the output with some agricultural engineering. And I'm sure krogan are good for fertilizer.

Please explain how destruction of a mass relay doesn't go supernova, as shown in Arrival, and described in the codex.  Assuming the fleets can escape the destruction, all known planetary worlds that depended on the mass relays should be destroyed.  The Quarian fleets cannot generate enough food for everyone.  Only the Quarians and Turians can eat it anyway.  So the asari, human, and krogan fleets are screwed.  Fuel is finite.  They can drift at near light speed, but traveling at FTL requires fuel in order to sustain the mass effect.  The number of explored worlds are very small, and most of them would have been destroyed along with the mass relays.

[Karrie788]

Nathan_41 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Why does everyone assume that everyone will die just because there are no mass relays? The galactic fleet has the quarians. Not only are they masters at salvaging and repurposing old ships, they apparently know how to grow food on their ships. Salarians can multiply the output with some agricultural engineering. And I'm sure krogan are good for fertilizer.

Because Quarians are not magicians, and their food can only feed the Turians and themselves, and it's doubtful they have enough for both. They're also cut off from badly needed fuel and supplies.

Do we actually know for a fact that the Quarian Liveships took part in the battle? I don't recall from memory.

... SPECULATION!

[Virmire Vermin]

Yeah. I feel the same way, but reverse it. I cared about Sovereign, I cared about Harbinger, hell I even cared about that destroyer on Rannoch. To see the Reapers just fall down like a deck of cards or fly off back to dark space like a bunch of mind controlled giant zombie ships was disappointing to say the least.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Great post, The Angry One. That's what I feel about the game.

Maybe BW was unable to find a solution to the problem of defeating the overpowered reapers. Or maybe the team was too busy with making SP and MP work together and got caught up in that, forgetting what the franchise was about in the process. Whatever the reason in the end it looks like they had to dream up "something".

The ending just doesn't fit the game. The kid is some random kid with which Shepard has no emotional attachment at all. If BW tried that then they failed. If repeating the dream was to tie him to end of the game then BW failed as well, because there is no logical connection to all the decisions Shepard made to meet the kid and except his faith. Mass Effect was not about faith. It was about saving the galaxy's ass, but more importantly about making sure the people you met in the game and cared about survived.

That "something" has no connection to the game, other than that Shepard is in it and the word "reaper" is uttered a couple of times. It almost feels like BW ran out of time to create a proper one and decided to add a place holder used during development.

I think an easy fix is to scrap everything after Anderson dies and make sure any exploding mass relays are left out of any cinematics. These do not spice up the ending. According to the codex intelligent life dies in the stellar system when its mass relay is blown up. There is no time to evacuate billions on planets, nor are there sufficient resources, and where should they go? Everyone you care about is near a mass relay and thus these friends and their civilizations will be blown up anyway. No. That only makes sure that the reapers won after all. And if for some magical reason nobody is hurt then the means to make the galactic population as a whole work has been destroyed, which will throw these civilizations back to the dark ages.

ME3 is punishing you for winning.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 01 avril 2012 - 04:48 .

[Leozilla]

The Angry One wrote...

It's come up in a few discussions now and then from various people that, no matter what the consequences of the ending, the cycle is in fact broken, Reapers are no longer a threat and future races will be free of bad Reaper influence, being culled etc. etc.

There's one issue I have with this: I DON'T CARE.

I got into Mass Effect because I became invested into the galaxy, it's various races and the galaxy.
I don't care whether the Yahg are now free to expand across the galaxy and eat puppies or whatever it is they do.
I don't care that in 10, 20, 30,000 years there'll be some form of galactic society again and I certainly don't care what some senile old man has to say to his naive grandson 10,000 years in the future on some backwater world I don't know and don't give a damn about!

I care about this galaxy, as is. I care about Garrus, about Liara, about Kaidan, about Tali building her home on Rannoch, about Wrex raising his new children. I care about Jack and her students, about Conrad, about Bailey. I care about the Turians, the Asari, the Quarians, the Geth, the Krogans.
Heck I even care about Vega and his N7 promotion.

That's what I care about, the characters I've gotten to know for 3 games. Not some nebulous, unseen and uneeded future. For that, you might as well let the Reapers win, because it amounts to exactly the same thing in the end. This isn't just about Shepard's unhappy ending. I want a happy ending, but even if it had to be a sacrifice, then I want that sacrifice to mean something other than some alien I don't care about not fearing the robotic squids from hell.

Being one of the people you mentio I feel I should defend my position.

First off, Shep and crew were going against an unbeatable enemy, you could not go into this game expecting everyone to come out unscathed, and weather or not it leads to the extinction of every council race they still won. because the reapers are no more. granted you don't get your blue babies, or get to see tali's home, but so much more was at stake for the first time in millions if not billions of years the galaxy and it's inhabitants have the freedom to chose how they will develop.

second, just because the future is bleak for the spieces you like it does not make it a bad ending, Take for example Halo Reach.

the tagline of the game was "you know how it will end" I went in to that game expecting little to no one surviving, however I still grew attached to the characters, I mourned each of their deaths, and when I got to the end and my objective was to survive. I knew that no matter how good I was Noble Six was going to die. But becasue of his sacrifice (and the rest of Noble) Humanity was given the slight chance it needed for survival.

Shep did that on a larger scale, The council race's sacrifices, and all that came before, allowed life to be free weather or not they got to reap the benefits of that freedom.

To act childish and demand a new ending because you cannot appericate the one you have now,does a disservice to one of the best written series in videogames.

Shep may or may not have died, the Geth and Quarians, who you jumped through so many hoops to save may have both died out anyway, but with their sacrifice others will allow others to live without the shadow of the reapers over them.

[Omega-202]

parrmi22 wrote...

I think the most important point being brought up is that the GALAXY WAS LITERALLY DESTROYED . . . figuratively, anyway. Every species is basically trapped on whatever world they're on, the entire fleets of some species are trapped in Sol, the characters we love are trapped and will likely die on some jungle planet, Shepard is dead and will never be with her LI. Defeating the Reapers left everyone in a worse position than they were in while the Reapers were actually in the galaxy.

I dunno about you, but I didn't fight a war so some old guy could tell his annoying son stories about me thousands of years later. I fought for Tali's home, for my LI, for a rebuilt Thessia, for revenge for all the people who died. NONE of that is possible now, thanks to the endings. What a damn shame.

WHAT'S THE ALTERNATIVE?  

Yes, everything is pretty messed up at the end, but if you failed to do what you did then the Reapers would have won.  If you failed to destroy/control/fuse then every human, turian, asari, salarian, krogan, quarian, drell, hanar, elcor, volus, batarian, geth and god damned vorcha would have been assimilated or killed.  

Do you not realize that?  Everyone would be dead.  Everyone.  Dead.  

But instead, Shepard uses the Crucible and galactic society is allowed to continue in some makeshift way.  

In the universe we were given, those were the only options.  You aren't given A or B and then allowed to choose C.  

[Sidney]

Rolando93 wrote...
Why does everyone assume that everyone will die just because there are no mass relays? The galactic fleet has the quarians. Not only are they masters at salvaging and repurposing old ships, they apparently know how to grow food on their ships. Salarians can multiply the output with some agricultural engineering. And I'm sure krogan are good for fertilizer.

Well and everyone talks about a ruined earth. Sure, the Reapers hit major population centers and devestated them but those are the precise spots where food isn't grown. Oddly enough the agricultural areas aren't hit.

The lack of relays don't end the galaxy anymore than the fall of the roman empire ended Europe. Communicatoions and commerce break down, yes. Major social, political and economic disruptions...check, but it isn't over. We fought to give life in the universe a chance and that is what two of the three endings do (not sure if I count synthesis as a "win" since it is awfully similar to what the Reapers wanted to do). Hell, maybe earth is lost from space debris but other human colonies aren't lost. Humanity will survive, all the races will survive in some form or fashion but wars never leave things unchanged from the way they were before and this is no different.

[The Angry One]

Leozilla wrote...

Being one of the people you mentio I feel I should defend my position.

First off, Shep and crew were going against an unbeatable enemy, you could not go into this game expecting everyone to come out unscathed, and weather or not it leads to the extinction of every council race they still won. because the reapers are no more. granted you don't get your blue babies, or get to see tali's home, but so much more was at stake for the first time in millions if not billions of years the galaxy and it's inhabitants have the freedom to chose how they will develop.

second, just because the future is bleak for the spieces you like it does not make it a bad ending, Take for example Halo Reach.

the tagline of the game was "you know how it will end" I went in to that game expecting little to no one surviving, however I still grew attached to the characters, I mourned each of their deaths, and when I got to the end and my objective was to survive. I knew that no matter how good I was Noble Six was going to die. But becasue of his sacrifice (and the rest of Noble) Humanity was given the slight chance it needed for survival.

Shep did that on a larger scale, The council race's sacrifices, and all that came before, allowed life to be free weather or not they got to reap the benefits of that freedom.

To act childish and demand a new ending because you cannot appericate the one you have now,does a disservice to one of the best written series in videogames.

Shep may or may not have died, the Geth and Quarians, who you jumped through so many hoops to save may have both died out anyway, but with their sacrifice others will allow others to live without the shadow of the reapers over them.

No, this ending does a disservice to one of the best written series in videogames.
You act as if the ending must have been so. They contrived and forced this ending, ignoring that the codex THEY WROTE gives numerous valid reasons as to why and how the Reapers could be defeated conventionally.

There could easily be another way that doesn't involve destroying the mass relays and marooning the Normandy for no reason. These two things simply do not need to happen, and the price they represent is not worth paying.
Halo Reach is a bad example, you know the universe hasn't ended.

That's what happens here. As for your last sentence, I don't care about others. I did not fight for them, I did not spend 3 games so people I don't know will live in peace somehow somewhere. That's got nothing to do with what I've played.

[Typhoniel]

Well said. I am not interested in any other races of the future. I am interested in the story that was given to me and I want to win this game. I want to take Earth back and travel around the space to visit my friends and I want to help Tali designing her new home and garden.

I don't want to hear something about hilarious Indoctrination Theories. These are just stupid ideas to have something the people can believe in. They are so desperate that they would even accept that stupid theory.

[Sidney]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Please explain how destruction of a mass relay doesn't go supernova, as shown in Arrival, and described in the codex. 

Because you see it discharge the energy before the relay blows up. There is nothing to "go nova" left in the relay it expends the energy to propogate the wave. The discharge of the energy is what crushes relay rather than crushing the relay causing the explosion like in Arrival.

[Velocithon]

The point Angry One is making in case people miss, is that the ending seems to show that in the distant future life goes on free of the Reapers.

The point is...who cares? We the players have spent three games bonding with the current characters. It's them we care about, not the future.

[The Angry One]

Sidney wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Please explain how destruction of a mass relay doesn't go supernova, as shown in Arrival, and described in the codex. 

Because you see it discharge the energy before the relay blows up. There is nothing to "go nova" left in the relay it expends the energy to propogate the wave. The discharge of the energy is what crushes relay rather than crushing the relay causing the explosion like in Arrival.

No, the energy backfire is what destroys the relay. You then see an expanding explosion which then cuts away.
I am not in the camp that says this is what happens for certain, but we certainly SEE the beginning of a nova.

[Wolven_Soul]

Bravo.

[HenchxNarf]

Velocithon wrote...

The point Angry One is making in case people miss, is that the ending seems to show that in the distant future life goes on free of the Reapers.

The point is...who cares? We the players have spent three games bonding with the current characters. It's them we care about, not the future.

I wasn't going to come back here, but I had to with this.

ME3 was meant to be the end of Shepard's story. Which means in the next game, even if the endings were something different, we most likely wouldn't have the same people in the game as has been in the last three.

ME4 is supposed to start a new story. Shep is done, finished.

So, with that in mind, the OP's post seems selfish and not entirely correct.

[Nathan_41]

The Angry One wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Please explain how destruction of a mass relay doesn't go supernova, as shown in Arrival, and described in the codex. 

Because you see it discharge the energy before the relay blows up. There is nothing to "go nova" left in the relay it expends the energy to propogate the wave. The discharge of the energy is what crushes relay rather than crushing the relay causing the explosion like in Arrival.

No, the energy backfire is what destroys the relay. You then see an expanding explosion which then cuts away.
I am not in the camp that says this is what happens for certain, but we certainly SEE the beginning of a nova.

This is true, else why was Joker so busy trying to stay ahead of the energy burst?

Modifié par Nathan_41, 01 avril 2012 - 04:45 .

[curufinwe03]

Sidney wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Please explain how destruction of a mass relay doesn't go supernova, as shown in Arrival, and described in the codex. 

Because you see it discharge the energy before the relay blows up. There is nothing to "go nova" left in the relay it expends the energy to propogate the wave. The discharge of the energy is what crushes relay rather than crushing the relay causing the explosion like in Arrival.

So the energy of the anti-reaper wave is equivalent to a supernova? Don't forget the law of coversation of energy.

[shepskisaac]

Velocithon wrote...

The point Angry One is making in case people miss, is that the ending seems to show that in the distant future life goes on free of the Reapers.

The point is...who cares? We the players have spent three games bonding with the current characters. It's them we care about, not the future.

We care about the future and millions of namesless character in all the races. However, human nature makes us care about the few people we know personally as much if not more than the millions. The endings however screw up BOTH the millions we don't know AND the few we know & care the most personally leaving basically no sweet in the suppousedly bittersweet balance they were aiming for.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 01 avril 2012 - 04:47 .