[quote]Ignoring the fact that I firmly support Indoctrination Theory and not
because I hold out hope for a better ending, you're comparing the
results with some sort of BS fantasy ending. You can't compare what we
have to a "and they lived happily ever after". You have to look at what
WOULD have happened if the Reapers were not stopped. [/quote]
About time someone responded. I respect your initiative. First, ''BS fantasy ending'', if it means it makes sense and doesn't leave us with many more questions than answers I will gladly take it. Where was a ''happily ever after'' even mentionned in this thread, anyhow? With the damage done to the galaxy, such an ending is impossible. It would have been bittersweet even if the Crucible had merely been a button that poped the Reapers out of existence instantly. Would arguably have been better than this plot-hole ridden, Deus Ex Machina using mess we have here anyhow.
[quote]1. Yes,
Earth is in bad shape and its very likely that it may be uninhabitable.
That's one planet. Thessia, Palaven, Sur'Kesh, Tuchanka, Rannoch,
Dekunna, Kahje, Eden Prime (and possibly more human colonies), etc. are
in a lot better shape. Sacrifices were inevitable. Look at the
alternative: they could all have been destroyed and every being on every
one of those worlds could be dead or harvested. [/quote]
Thessia has been hit even harder than Earth, so was Palaven. Dekunna had also fallen, Eden Prime was likely attacked (albeit damage is unknown) at some point. Kahje's fate is unknown. The discussion is also not about sacrifice, it's about arguing that the galaxy's future is bright, when I find it is not at all. The game beat us over the head repeatedly with the concept of sacrifice, I get it. Also, again, I know that the altenative is everyone is Reaper fodder. Doesn't mean that the extremely sorry state all those worlds are left in is anywhere near bright or promising for the future. Also, Earth houses something like 85% of the human population, as well as now the entire military and leaders of many races. Just one planet maybe, but a damn important one.
[quote]2. The armies
are stranded in Sol. The civilians of each of those races is on their
homeworlds. The militaries of each species knew that volunteering to
fight the Reapers could have and probably would result in their deaths.
They accepted that otherwise they wouldn't have volunteered. A soldier
has to know that they could die for their cause and especially against
odds like the Reapers, they had to know that they probably would die.
Being stranded/dying due to being cut off in Sol and never seeing home
again was something that they had to make peace with before volunteering
to fight.[/quote]
We're not only talking about soldiers here. Many leaders were there, and since most of the galaxy's civilian leaders were very probably killed when the Reapers took the Citadel (funny how absolutely nobody worries about the quite important people on it). I would guess many races are leaderless. And the military are about the only ones who know what happenned on Earth. And again, their homeworlds have been attacked massively. Palaven has seen months of fighting so fierce the full force of the Krogans and Turiand would simply delay the assault. Thessia fell to overwhelming force. Kar'Shan is the graveyard of the entire Batarian race. Rannoch is populated by (at most) a handful of million civilians, and possibly their Geth buddies. Tuchanka is not self-sufficient. Not one homeworld of any race save Sur'Kesh is implied to be anything but a smoking battlefield at best prior to the ending. Again, that's ignoring all the debris, Reaper carcasses, ect.
[quote]3. Tuchanka is not doomed. A lot of colonies are not
doomed. The Krogan were able to live on their world a for LONG period
between bombing themselves into a new stone age and the Salarians coming
to uplift them. Now with a cured Genophage and the leadership of Eve
and the sacrifice of Wrex to motivate them, its likely they may get
their act together. Human colonies were mostly on garden worlds and
were centered on agriculture. They're in the best situation to survive.
They've got better technology than we do today and a pristine
environment to develop in. They don't need to import food, the larger
colonies had fully staffed medical facilities and colonies like
Bekenstein, Terra Nova and Elysium had manufacturing facilities as well.
[/quote]
Tuchanka relied on external trade. When Wrex talks about building farms and obtaining food and such, the Krogan scientist in ME2 responds ''we can get that stuff from the Salarians''. As a nuked death world, Tuchanka is not self-sufficient. One quick glance at this pile of rubble (Wrex's words) will tell you it can't support a population. Even less if the Genophage is cured and they start breeding like rabbits. Funny you mention very specific human colonies and ignore that humanity is far from the dominant species. Read the description of the planets on the galactic map. Most of the inhabited planets that are not hugely populated are not self-sufficient, and those that were populated were likely hit hard by the Reapers. Again, better than being turned into mush for certain, but the Mass Effect universe has effectively ceased to exist. When we set out to protect it.
[quote]4. Yeah, the Yahgs may be next to get into space...but like
everyone else, they're stuck in their system. What difference does that
make? [/quote]
Indeed, what difference do my choices make. Excellent point.
[quote]5. All I saw walk out of my ship on my playthroughs have
been Joker, EDI and Liara. I know some people may believe that ALL
squadmates are on the ship because its possible to see them all walk out
under certain conditions, but I choose to accept that Garrus and Tali
were not on there. [/quote]
Yeah, that's your headcanon. In my game my eternal buddy Garrus got out of the Normandy, despite being in my selected squad for the final run. The entire crew is on board for some reason, like it or not. And there is no logical explanation for this at all.
[quote]Also, whats the alternative for them?
They're on Earth and starve? What about the rest of the Normandy crew?
If you don't destroy/control/fuse the Reapers, then they're dead
anyway. The Normandy would have gotten destroyed eventually in the rest
of the purge as the cycle continued and the crew would have all died.
Either get killed by the Reapers for failing, end up on a garden world
or get stranded on a destroyed Earth. Take your pick.[/quote]
Here's my Shepard-inspired, Take a Third Option pick: or maybe have the writers do their job properly and give them a better closure than being stranded on some lost planet only to provide us with a, sorry for the cuss, bullsh!t Adam and Eve parralel, not knowing that happened to the person they followed to hell and back until the ending? And they're smiling about it? Going by the Codex they should have been cooked by radiations when the Normandy was forced out of FTL travel by the Relays exploding anyhow. This whole scene is not excusable. It's complete garbage. I could see someone defending the rest for their own reasons, but there is 0 doubt in my mind that the Normandy crash is utterly illogical, unneeded and must be scrapped before anything else.
[quote]6. The
knowledge is not outside possibility. The Prothean scientists on Ilos
developed the Conduit in relative isolation in a secret base outside of
contact with the rest of the Empire. Forget the fact that you don't
just have one society working on the problem. Asari, Turian, Salarian,
Human scientists can all still work in conjunction on the problem.[/quote]
With what ressources, if I may? Because the Conduit =/= Mass Relays. The Conduit was a very small, one-way, almost one-time affair. A far cry from a full network of massive gateways than can easily support an entire galaxy's worth of traffic. And it still took years to conceive and build for the very best Prothean scientists. Said Protheans also knew more about the mass Relays, and more importantly the Relays existed in their cycle so they could study them. Now they blew up, with all their energy gone. And we can assume that most of the galaxy's best scientists were working on the Crucible and accompanying it. To Earth. The stranded planet that can't support the huge fleet. Uh oh. Simply building the Crucible took months, and that's with ALL the top scientists and virtually unlimited ressources. The Relays are presumably even bigger and just as complex, and we have no plans, and our scientists may starve/be out of ressources, and speculation for everyone. Yay.
[quote]Communication
is knocked out due to the loss of the relays you say? NOPE! Mass
Effect 3 shoves Quantum Entanglement communication down our throats with
Traynor and the new Comm room (which was based on TIM's QE
communication method in ME2). And if you're to tell me that the
Normandy has QE send/receive pairs on Earth, the Citadel, Thessia and
Palaven and yet each capital planet as a whole didn't have a few dozen
QE pairs to each of the other capital worlds then you're just being
obtuse. They may be stranded, but they can all still talk to each
other. [/quote]
For all the good it does them. Citadel, Thessia, Earth and Palaven are trashed. We don't even know if said QEC survived. The Normandy's certainly didn't. Plus, we are talking about top-of-the-line technology. The vast, vast majority of communications was comm buoy-based. Which were destroyed along with the Relays. There are still presumably billions, if not trillions in the galaxy. A few QEC won't do much good.
[quote]Every point refuted. [/quote]
You tried and made some good points. But I find the answers not satisfactory.
[quote]I wish the end was better,
but sometimes you accept what you're given as the choice made by the
creator. Mac and Casey chose this as the message they wanted to send.
That's it. Its a valid story to tell. If you don't like it, that's
too bad, but you just have to accept it. [/quote]
No, I don't. I am a paying customer who shelled out 70$ for a product, and more than 200 for a series of products. If I find that the ending of said product does not satisfy me, I have every right to complain about it, ''artistic integrity'' of a profit-driven company that has already changed its products according to fan demande multiple times be damned. Going along and just accepting it all is the worst that can happen; if Bioware gets no criticism from this, they will think their ending was genius and will give us more like it. DA2 had a similar BS ending, and this is a course I most definitely do not want them to take.
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