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"The cycle was broken!" I don't CARE.


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#476
stcalvin13

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The Angry One wrote...

It's come up in a few discussions now and then from various people that, no matter what the consequences of the ending, the cycle is in fact broken, Reapers are no longer a threat and future races will be free of bad Reaper influence, being culled etc. etc.

There's one issue I have with this: I DON'T CARE.

I got into Mass Effect because I became invested into the galaxy, it's various races and the galaxy.
I don't care whether the Yahg are now free to expand across the galaxy and eat puppies or whatever it is they do.
I don't care that in 10, 20, 30,000 years there'll be some form of galactic society again and I certainly don't care what some senile old man has to say to his naive grandson 10,000 years in the future on some backwater world I don't know and don't give a damn about!

I care about this galaxy, as is. I care about Garrus, about Liara, about Kaidan, about Tali building her home on Rannoch, about Wrex raising his new children. I care about Jack and her students, about Conrad, about Bailey. I care about the Turians, the Asari, the Quarians, the Geth, the Krogans.
Heck I even care about Vega and his N7 promotion.

That's what I care about, the characters I've gotten to know for 3 games. Not some nebulous, unseen and uneeded future. For that, you might as well let the Reapers win, because it amounts to exactly the same thing in the end. This isn't just about Shepard's unhappy ending. I want a happy ending, but even if it had to be a sacrifice, then I want that sacrifice to mean something other than some alien I don't care about not fearing the robotic squids from hell.


Completely agree--and bioware should have known this.  Every single thing that was memorable about the game had to do with the characters.  THESE characters.  I don't care whether the Geth or the Quarians or the Krogans go extinct--I care about Tali's people and Legion's people and Wrex's people.  But the ending throws this in the garabage, so we save a bunch of future peoples.  

Mass effect was never marketed as a "well we're screwed but let's make the best of it for our galatic ancestors."  TBH that would have made an interesting game (maybe not: good)--but it certainly wouldn't have been mass effect.  The tone would have been entirely different.  Our aims would have been different.  It probably would have been a game--not three.  If it was three no game would have made the penacle of the game saving all your crew, because "well we're screwed."  No DLC for any of these games would have ended with two characters discussing the little blue kids they're gonna have.  No one would have cared about taking back their home planet.  Paragon and Renegade would have had nothing to do with who you step on to get the job done--they'd have to do with whether you got the job or decided--"screw it, if we're not around, I care if anyone is."  

We played the game for the characters--yes even those that liked the ending--and got an ending that had nothing to do with the characters.  (And no, don't tell me that the goodbyes before the ending had to do with the characters, because half of what we get there can't come to pass given the endings.)

If Bioware wants to make a game that isn't character driven--where we face extinction but have to save someone--anyone--then ok.  But don't call that game mass effect.  And don't slap the first draft of the ending of that game on to the ending of mass effect and call it a day.

#477
Shaigunjoe

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The Angry One wrote...
Yes, let's follow from the current endings:

Garrus: Died from radiation poisoning.
Joker: Died from radiation poisoning.
Tali: Died from radiation poisoning.
Vega: Died from radiation poisoning.
Kaidan: Died from radiation poisoning.
Javik: Died from radiation poisoning.
Liara: Died from radiation poisoning.
Traynor: Died from radiation poisoning.
Cortez: Died from radiation poisoning.
Chakwas: Died from radiation poisoning.
EDI: Went mad from lonliness.


Hahaha, ah, sounds like closure to me.

This makes me think of that Chris Rock song, No Sex in the Champagne room, when he starts going over all the horiscopes.

#478
Sidney

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Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Now the point was to save the galaxy from the reapers, if you kill the galaxy in order to stop the reapers you failed.


Galaxy isn't killed. Even if Earth is dead in the falling space debries kills us all that leaves 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the galaxy intact including billions of humans.

And you are going to get to them how?


Who cares? Survival was the goal not preserving easy forms of transportation.

#479
The Angry One

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Rolando93 wrote...

The current cycle still exists. Lack of mass relays does not mean death to all races. What did they do before they knew about them? Those people you care about are still alive as well. You had to know though that you might have come out of this game with all your friends dead. At least you know their alive and that they have a future. They do have a future.


What future? Where? How?

All we're told is that 10,000 years later, some old man likes to play in the snow.
That's it.

#480
Leozilla

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The Angry One wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

you did fight for them, maybe not personally, but you did not fight the reapers for only council races, you fought for everyone, every single sapient speices in the galaxy, and if not you didn't fight for what shepard and the others fought for. Liara would have counted that as a win.


Yes, we fought for everyone. Not just the inheritors of a nebulous future.
Again, I would care about the end of the cycle and the distant future if everything in the present that I know and love weren't destroyed.


and you don't know that the ME universe is over, it may be for you, but I doubt that breath scene was for nothing, and do you honestly think EA (of all companies) will kill a franchise that they know will make them money?


I think Mac Walters did. Why? I cannot fathom. But he apparently chose to do it.
Presumably EA will be content with the promise of prequels.


so you can't have your blue babies, this game is a war and in war people die Shep's goal was to save everyone he could, and he did it to the best of his ability

#481
Rolando93

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Karrie788 wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.


It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.


you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy


SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY! :wizard:


Why does everyone need to know EXACTLY what happens. Apparently humanity survives into the future. Ask Buzz Aldrin.

#482
HenchxNarf

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Karrie788 wrote...

Synthesis ending is, for me, the absolute worst choice possible. I am not becoming Saren, I am not deciding by myself the fate of the entire galaxy. And we absolutely don't know what the long-term consequences are. It doesn't solve anything and people are still stranded.

I cried too on my Amell playthrough. I sent her to her death. And the ending worked.


But it isn't if you think about it. You saved people, instead of destroying them. You saved the Geth and EDI. Yeah, you decided the fate of the galaxy, but you likely saved them as well. Yeah, they're stranded. But they would be stranded regardless, right? But with a better chance at survival. Shepard is technically a synthesized being, if you think about it. You're even told that, when you're given the destroy option.

Saren, like TIM had the right ideas, they were just extremists. No, we don't know. Neither do we know the long term consequences of destroying all synthetic life, either. It's just something you have to understand.

Heroes have to make tough decisions, it's one of the things that makes a hero a hero.

#483
Nerfhausen

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Pissed0ff wrote...

BioWare is the new Sony Everquest.


Noo.... Beware are......... in reality ......... The Reapers. That's why the ending is like that! LOL!

#484
The Angry One

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Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Now the point was to save the galaxy from the reapers, if you kill the galaxy in order to stop the reapers you failed.


Galaxy isn't killed. Even if Earth is dead in the falling space debries kills us all that leaves 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the galaxy intact including billions of humans.

And you are going to get to them how?


Who cares? Survival was the goal not preserving easy forms of transportation.


The devastated worlds of the galaxy need that transportation to recover. The end.

#485
DJBare

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Rolando93 wrote...

How many times did you salvage fuel from crashed ships in the game? Also, THEY GROW FOOD ON THEIR SHIPS. How else do you think the Migrant Fleet eats? And are you going to tell me quarians cant jury rigg greenhouses on ships? They are quarians. Give them some eezo and some scrap metal and they'll have it making precision jumps.
And all the fleets send their troops out without some rations? As well, Earth is just below them. There is plenty to salvage there.

They need to get to locations to find that fuel, eg use fuel to travel, the galaxy is 120,000 light years in diameter, despite the false impression given by the galaxy map it's freaking huge with a LOT of space, the migrant fleet did not survive purely on the ships supplies, they also traded via the relays, earth is ravaged, it's barely going to be able to sustain it's remaining population.

#486
xeNNN

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well said OP well said.

*Queue's applause* :D

Modifié par xeNNN, 01 avril 2012 - 05:19 .


#487
CaptainIngenuity

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Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Now the point was to save the galaxy from the reapers, if you kill the galaxy in order to stop the reapers you failed.


Galaxy isn't killed. Even if Earth is dead in the falling space debries kills us all that leaves 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the galaxy intact including billions of humans.


It is always interesting to see people state that the the entirety of the universe as the game knows it is not destroyed.  You mean the ending with the explosion seen on a galactic scale (if its viewable on a galactic scale NOTHING IS ALIVE).  There is no difference between the "type" of explosion it made.  Simply using the word explosion (discharge is no different, you cannot discharge energy at this rate and still not change physics as it works in the ME universe) means that anything within known space near that relay just went to a much better place,  a place without this ending.

For the sake of the argument however lets consider that posters stating the relays did not cause supernovas were correct.  Okay, you have now isolated the entire known universe.  The codex states that depending on your EMS you have collected the majority of the known fleets in the entire universe around a single planet that has been devestated by war the entire length of the game.  Reapers destroy the energy and fuel resources of those they destroy as they do not need them.  They have neither the resources, the time, the energy, the food, nor the ability to  continue.  Congratulations you have starved.  

There is no future in this, this isn't in any way a happy, dark or bittersweet ending (dooming future societies to cannibalism isnt bittersweet) as all three of your choices arent expounded upon and even if taken at face value are ludicrous at best.

Modifié par CaptainIngenuity, 01 avril 2012 - 05:21 .


#488
Harbinger of your Destiny

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Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Now the point was to save the galaxy from the reapers, if you kill the galaxy in order to stop the reapers you failed.


Galaxy isn't killed. Even if Earth is dead in the falling space debries kills us all that leaves 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the galaxy intact including billions of humans.

And you are going to get to them how?


Who cares? Survival was the goal not preserving easy forms of transportation.

Just read the drell backstory and why that is a horrible future.

#489
Turtlicious

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Rolando93 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.


It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.


you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy


SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY! :wizard:


Why does everyone need to know EXACTLY what happens. Apparently humanity survives into the future. Ask Buzz Aldrin.


Because this was supposed to be a conclusion.

It was supposed to be conclusive.

Hence why we say it's the conclusion to the series.

#490
Rolando93

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The Angry One wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.


It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.


you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy


There are plenty of resources in the galaxy.
That nobody can get to.



Resources like light bulbs that can simulate sunlight? Or is it dirt that they can't get their hands on? Im sure water is hard to come by on Earth, the planet they are orbiting.

#491
Dridengx

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Rolando93 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.


It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.


you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy


SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY! :wizard:


Why does everyone need to know EXACTLY what happens. Apparently humanity survives into the future. Ask Buzz Aldrin.


If we don't see it apparently on screen its a plothole  even though the game is full of every answer if you look

Modifié par Dridengx, 01 avril 2012 - 05:20 .


#492
Leozilla

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The Angry One wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.


It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.



you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy


There are plenty of resources in the galaxy.
That nobody can get to.


Not every ship was at Earth, otherwise the Quarians would have been commiting suicide

#493
The Angry One

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HenchxNarf wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Synthesis ending is, for me, the absolute worst choice possible. I am not becoming Saren, I am not deciding by myself the fate of the entire galaxy. And we absolutely don't know what the long-term consequences are. It doesn't solve anything and people are still stranded.

I cried too on my Amell playthrough. I sent her to her death. And the ending worked.


But it isn't if you think about it. You saved people, instead of destroying them. You saved the Geth and EDI. Yeah, you decided the fate of the galaxy, but you likely saved them as well. Yeah, they're stranded. But they would be stranded regardless, right? But with a better chance at survival. Shepard is technically a synthesized being, if you think about it. You're even told that, when you're given the destroy option.

Saren, like TIM had the right ideas, they were just extremists. No, we don't know. Neither do we know the long term consequences of destroying all synthetic life, either. It's just something you have to understand.

Heroes have to make tough decisions, it's one of the things that makes a hero a hero.


Saren had the right idea..... you do know that Saren's idiotic vision of the future was the proof in the narrative that he was completely insane, right? Yeah sure, impose the Reaper's plan on the galaxy. Great job.
I know you won't respond to this either, rest assured it's immense fun poking holes in everything you say without a challenge.

Modifié par The Angry One, 01 avril 2012 - 05:20 .


#494
Turtlicious

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CaptainIngenuity wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Now the point was to save the galaxy from the reapers, if you kill the galaxy in order to stop the reapers you failed.


Galaxy isn't killed. Even if Earth is dead in the falling space debries kills us all that leaves 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the galaxy intact including billions of humans.


It is always interesting to see people state that the the entirety of the universe as the game knows it is not destroyed.  You mean the ending with the explosion seen on a galactic scale (if its viewable on a galactic scale NOTHING IS ALIVE).  There is no difference between the "type" of explosion it made.  Simply using the word explosion (discharge is no different, you cannot discharge energy at this rate and still not change physics as it works in the ME universe) means that anything within known space near that relay just went to a much better place,  a place without this ending.

For the sake of the argument however lets consider that posters stating the relays did not cause supernovas were correct.  Okay, you have now isolated the entire known universe.  The codex states that depending on your EMS you have collected the majority of the known fleets in the entire universe around a single planet that has been devestated by war the entire length of the game.  Reapers destroy the energy and fuel resources of those they destroy as they do not need them.  They have neither the resources, the time, the energy, the food, nor the ability to  continue.  Congratulations you have starved.  

There is no future in this, this isn't in any way a happy ending as all three of your choices arent expounded upon and even if taken at face value are ludicrous at best.




#495
Turtlicious

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Rolando93 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.


It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.


you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy


There are plenty of resources in the galaxy.
That nobody can get to.



Resources like light bulbs that can simulate sunlight? Or is it dirt that they can't get their hands on? Im sure water is hard to come by on Earth, the planet they are orbiting.


Except the Sol system was destroyed.

#496
Leozilla

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Turtlicious wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.


It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.


you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy


SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY! :wizard:


Why does everyone need to know EXACTLY what happens. Apparently humanity survives into the future. Ask Buzz Aldrin.


Because this was supposed to be a conclusion.

It was supposed to be conclusive.

Hence why we say it's the conclusion to the series.




I don't recall them saying that, all I remember was that it was an end of Shep's story

#497
Rafe34

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Sidney wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...
Good for you. Honestly. I wish I was in your position. The endings left me completely devastated. I would have been fine with Shep dying (although I would have bawled like a baby as I did in DA:O) if I had a little closure about her friends.
I disagree about the happy ending part. It should have been an option, for me. Not rainbows and puppies, obviously, but one option in which not everything basically goes to hell.


Can you please tell me what closure looks like? Again, it sounds like you want Animal House/DAO is that it? I really hate to think all this hatred for the ending ignore the real flaws and instead focuses on something as trival as getting some end cards like DAO had.


I want Bioware to do what they promised.

That's all.


So basically you have no idea what it would look like either. If they'd had the DAO end cards people would - and did for DAO - cry about that too not being enough and being cheap.

So again, what is closure?


I know exactly what it could look like. There are multiple threads on here detailing the promises Bioware's staff made, such as not leaving us with more questions than answers, not pulling a LOST on the fanbase, not giving us an A, B, or C ending. Not gonna repeat them all for the umpteenth time.

There are also numerous threads on here with multiple different ending.

Search Arkis Deviant Art Mass Effect 3 Ending for one.

Closure means showing us what happened to the people we loved and fought with and died for. Nothing less. 

DAO was and is widely held as one of the best RPGs BW has produced. There were always be *some* people not satisfied with it, sure.

But there is a big difference between leaving the ending of the FIRST GAME in a series open-ended and leaving it up to speculation, as well knew there was going to be a Dragon Age 2, and at the time, it was widely assumed it would be a continuation of that story, and leaving the ending of the LAST GAME in a series open-ended and leaving it up for speculation.

That is the problem here.

The ending in DAO was perfectly fine for the first game in a series.

The same ending in ME3 would be a little underwhelming for the last game in a series- especially one where we were promised closure.

Perhaps some scenes where we see what happens to those people we fought for. 
How about for the Krogan:

A) Wrex and Bakara, if you saved them, on Tuchanka, watching the Krogan rebuild.

B) If you lost both of them and destroyed the genophage cure, perhaps a scene where Wreav dies as the Krogan are exterminated by a combined force of Turians, Asari, and Salarians.

You see? It's not that hard to come up with something.

That's one option for just one facet of the game.

#498
The Angry One

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Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.


It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.



you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy


There are plenty of resources in the galaxy.
That nobody can get to.


Not every ship was at Earth, otherwise the Quarians would have been commiting suicide


No they wouldn't, since they expected to survive, either the Reapers are stopped or they all die anyway.
Regardless, if they left some ships at Rannoch, then they're trapped there. Without the liveships needed to reseed their planet with crops. Oops. They're trapped wherever they happen to be.

#499
Torrible

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The Angry One wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Now the point was to save the galaxy from the reapers, if you kill the galaxy in order to stop the reapers you failed.


Galaxy isn't killed. Even if Earth is dead in the falling space debries kills us all that leaves 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the galaxy intact including billions of humans.

And you are going to get to them how?


Who cares? Survival was the goal not preserving easy forms of transportation.


The devastated worlds of the galaxy need that transportation to recover. The end.


We don't know how devastated they were. We know millions were killed. We don't know if there were enough resources within the home systems for them to rebuild.

#500
Sidney

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Karrie788 wrote...
Well English is my second language, so I may not be always clear about what I would have wanted about the endings. I apologize.
I was under the impression that this thread was about the fact that many players, myself included, cared more about the fate of their friends than a faceless galaxy 10,000 years from now, that's why I focused on that. My main problems with the endings are the absolute nonsense that they are, the abomination of the Catalyst, the idiocy of the Normandy scene, and the fact that they introduce new themes and a new central conflict in the last five minutes. The fact that it's a "LOT OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE" kind of ending. I hated that. In fact I hated every single aspect of the ending. The only thing that made me smile for a second is that Big Ben did not collapse. Yay.

And actually yes, I would have liked a DAO type of ending as closure. It's not much, but it's an effective way of showing the consequences of your actions. It worked quite beautifully in New Vegas, Fallout 1 and Fallout 2.


I agree 100% with all of this you said: " My main problems with the endings are the absolute nonsense that they
are, the abomination of the Catalyst, the idiocy of the Normandy scene,
and the fact that they introduce new themes and a new central conflict in the last five minutes. "

I hate the content of the endings because it fails to explain in any reasonable way why I had to  just save the galaxy.

I think where I differ is that all I expected to do was save the galaxy. That was my mission critical goal for all 3 games. Would an end card about Garrus' bistro on Palavan been awful, no. At the time time I'm not sure it is necessary because knowing he's alive is really the core function.