1291 réponses à ce sujet

[Reptilian Rob]

"You dawg, I heard you liked Lovecraftian unknown space devils? So I didn't do that, and instead made up a lame plot device in the last five minutes!"

[Rolando93]

Turtlicious wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.

It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.

you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy

SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY!

Why does everyone need to know EXACTLY what happens. Apparently humanity survives into the future. Ask Buzz Aldrin.

Because this was supposed to be a conclusion.

It was supposed to be conclusive.

Hence why we say it's the conclusion to the series.

The conclusion is that you destroyed, controlled, or synthesized synthetics and that life can continue on without the Reapers killing everyone. What kind of conclusion are you looking for. Do you want to know if Wrex does name his kid Mordin? If he does do you want to know about Mordin's adventures? Do you want to know about how the geth and quarians get along. Whatever they would tell you won't last indefinitely. Things change as time goes on so there is no true conclusion in sight.

[The Angry One]

Dridengx wrote...

If we don't see it apparently on screen its a plothole  even though the game is full of every answer if you look

Explain the Normandy scene right now or withdraw this claim.

[Rafe34]

Leozilla wrote...

I don't recall them saying that, all I remember was that it was an end of Shep's story

"We will not leave you with more questions than answers."
"We will not pull a LOST on the fanbase."
"It will not at all be like a traditional video game ending, where you just pick ending A, B, or C."
"The ending will be based on your choices throughout the series. Why would you be forced into the same bespoke ending that everyone gets?"

etc., etc. Go look up the developer quotes, there are plenty of threads dedicated to the pretty much outright lies that were given to us.

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Torrible wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Now the point was to save the galaxy from the reapers, if you kill the galaxy in order to stop the reapers you failed.

Galaxy isn't killed. Even if Earth is dead in the falling space debries kills us all that leaves 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the galaxy intact including billions of humans.

And you are going to get to them how?

Who cares? Survival was the goal not preserving easy forms of transportation.

The devastated worlds of the galaxy need that transportation to recover. The end.

We don't know how devastated they were. We know millions were killed. We don't know if there were enough resources within the home systems for them to rebuild.

Eight centuries ago, the already-arid drell homeworld began its swift
descent into lifelessness due to disastrous industrial expansion. At the
time, the drell lacked interstellar flight capacity, and with their
population bursting at 11 billion they faced certain doom.

http://masseffect.wi...i/Drell#History

[Leozilla]

The Angry One wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.

It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.

you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy

There are plenty of resources in the galaxy.
That nobody can get to.

Not every ship was at Earth, otherwise the Quarians would have been commiting suicide

No they wouldn't, since they expected to survive, either the Reapers are stopped or they all die anyway.
Regardless, if they left some ships at Rannoch, then they're trapped there. Without the liveships needed to reseed their planet with crops. Oops. They're trapped wherever they happen to be.

Well in my game the Geth had already started helping them form farmland, so I doubt they'll starve

[firebreather19]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Synthesis ending is, for me, the absolute worst choice possible. I am not becoming Saren, I am not deciding by myself the fate of the entire galaxy. And we absolutely don't know what the long-term consequences are. It doesn't solve anything and people are still stranded.

I cried too on my Amell playthrough. I sent her to her death. And the ending worked.

But it isn't if you think about it. You saved people, instead of destroying them. You saved the Geth and EDI. Yeah, you decided the fate of the galaxy, but you likely saved them as well. Yeah, they're stranded. But they would be stranded regardless, right? But with a better chance at survival. Shepard is technically a synthesized being, if you think about it. You're even told that, when you're given the destroy option.

Saren, like TIM had the right ideas, they were just extremists. No, we don't know. Neither do we know the long term consequences of destroying all synthetic life, either. It's just something you have to understand.

Heroes have to make tough decisions, it's one of the things that makes a hero a hero.

Here's where you're missing something though...

The people that play these games aren't heroes. And so even if the game is made in the mindset of one, it isn't going to fit with them. What image of the "hero" best fits? The self-sacrificing, "for the greater good" type? Or "I wanna see my girlfriend again so we can make out and my buddy Garrus can high five me as everyone comes back to life" type?

It's why there's this backlash. Sure they could've put in clarification. Joker swinging by to pick up squadmates, for instance. I think it would've ruined flow, but whatevs. But mostly people don't like being given hard choices and knowing none of them will be 100% exactly what they want. 

Besides, this game's galaxy was full of idiots anyways. How many times does the Citadel need to be invaded by some freaky cyborgish puppets and organics on board murdered, raped, whatever before they realize that place is probably not all that safe? Mooks would keep flocking there forever if they could. 

[Karrie788]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Synthesis ending is, for me, the absolute worst choice possible. I am not becoming Saren, I am not deciding by myself the fate of the entire galaxy. And we absolutely don't know what the long-term consequences are. It doesn't solve anything and people are still stranded.

I cried too on my Amell playthrough. I sent her to her death. And the ending worked.

But it isn't if you think about it. You saved people, instead of destroying them. You saved the Geth and EDI. Yeah, you decided the fate of the galaxy, but you likely saved them as well. Yeah, they're stranded. But they would be stranded regardless, right? But with a better chance at survival. Shepard is technically a synthesized being, if you think about it. You're even told that, when you're given the destroy option.

Saren, like TIM had the right ideas, they were just extremists. No, we don't know. Neither do we know the long term consequences of destroying all synthetic life, either. It's just something you have to understand.

Heroes have to make tough decisions, it's one of the things that makes a hero a hero.

I see your point but I still disagree.

We have absolutely no idea what synthesis could do to people on the long term. We don't know if we saved them for good. First thing that popped in my mind when the Catalyst brought the option up is that I was going to change the entire galaxy into husks. And since the conclusion is so vague, I can imagine anything from there. Maybe people will go mad since their body changed so much and they can't cope with it. We just don't know. We can go anywhere from there.
I am not trusting a Reaper, I don't want Shepard to be the sole "savior" of the galaxy and I am not buying into the message that removing diversity is a good thing. It's nonsensical and it sends completely wrong messages in my opinion.

Modifié par Karrie788, 01 avril 2012 - 05:25 .

[The Angry One]

Torrible wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...
Now the point was to save the galaxy from the reapers, if you kill the galaxy in order to stop the reapers you failed.

Galaxy isn't killed. Even if Earth is dead in the falling space debries kills us all that leaves 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the galaxy intact including billions of humans.

And you are going to get to them how?

Who cares? Survival was the goal not preserving easy forms of transportation.

The devastated worlds of the galaxy need that transportation to recover. The end.

We don't know how devastated they were. We know millions were killed. We don't know if there were enough resources within the home systems for them to rebuild.

The Reapers destroy all major cities, throwing up tons of ash and debris into the air, we see large parts of these planets on fire. Reaper standard MO is to destroy all infrastructure in the system and surrounding cluster, that includes all space stations, colonies, fuel refineries, mines and farms. 

[Sainta117]

I agree. Bioware missed the most important aspect of why humans fight - for their friends. Without them, any victory is a hollow and broken shell.

[xxskyshadowxx]

Rafe34 wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...
Good for you. Honestly. I wish I was in your position. The endings left me completely devastated. I would have been fine with Shep dying (although I would have bawled like a baby as I did in DA:O) if I had a little closure about her friends.
I disagree about the happy ending part. It should have been an option, for me. Not rainbows and puppies, obviously, but one option in which not everything basically goes to hell.

Can you please tell me what closure looks like? Again, it sounds like you want Animal House/DAO is that it? I really hate to think all this hatred for the ending ignore the real flaws and instead focuses on something as trival as getting some end cards like DAO had.

I want Bioware to do what they promised.

That's all.

^This.

I think it's fine that folks like the current ending, despite it being ripped from another game...but it's not at all what Bioware was claiming it would be just weeks before release. Artistic integrity aside (and I feel they have no right to this arguement anyway, again because their ending isn't even original), a company boldly lying to it's consumer base should not sit well with anyone. It's a consumer's responsibility to call them on it and demand change.

[aliengmr1]

Dridengx wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.

It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.

you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy

SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY!

Why does everyone need to know EXACTLY what happens. Apparently humanity survives into the future. Ask Buzz Aldrin.

If we don't see it apparently on screen its a plothole  even though the game is full of every answer if you look

How does the green ending work technically? Better yet, How do they all work? details please. I want to know the science behind the magic. Wasn't in the codex.

[Vromrig]

Unable to get read on Angry One. Agree heartily on many points. Seems to hate me on other points.

Requires more tests.

[Rolando93]

The Angry One wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.

It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.

you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy

There are plenty of resources in the galaxy.
That nobody can get to.

Not every ship was at Earth, otherwise the Quarians would have been commiting suicide

No they wouldn't, since they expected to survive, either the Reapers are stopped or they all die anyway.
Regardless, if they left some ships at Rannoch, then they're trapped there. Without the liveships needed to reseed their planet with crops. Oops. They're trapped wherever they happen to be.

Trapped on Rannoch? What will they do? Rebuild their home world? They lived on that planet before the mass relays. Also is Rannoch truly a desolate wasteland? No. Especially if there are liveships still on Rannoch which I'm sure there are since I doubt the quarians sent their children off to fight Reapers on Earth.

[Shaigunjoe]

The Angry One wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

If we don't see it apparently on screen its a plothole  even though the game is full of every answer if you look

Explain the Normandy scene right now or withdraw this claim.

Because the stargazer said "And The Shepards disciples narrowly escaped the conflict", and what was on screen was the child's interpretation of that story.  Pretty basic when dealing with an unrealiable narrator.  Though that is just one interpretation.

It's that easy.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 01 avril 2012 - 05:27 .

[Turtlicious]

Rolando93 wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.

It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.

you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy

SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY!

Why does everyone need to know EXACTLY what happens. Apparently humanity survives into the future. Ask Buzz Aldrin.

Because this was supposed to be a conclusion.

It was supposed to be conclusive.

Hence why we say it's the conclusion to the series.

The conclusion is that you destroyed, controlled, or synthesized synthetics and that life can continue on without the Reapers killing everyone. What kind of conclusion are you looking for. Do you want to know if Wrex does name his kid Mordin? If he does do you want to know about Mordin's adventures? Do you want to know about how the geth and quarians get along. Whatever they would tell you won't last indefinitely. Things change as time goes on so there is no true conclusion in sight.

Yes because, Hell, I want to know what color Liara's ******'s are and if Wrex litterally ****ed ALL the ****es. I want to know all that, I also want to know if his kid Mordin had a quad. And what color that quad was, and how much he fiddled with his quad at the age of 20.

I also want to know what the **** happened to the humans turians quarians and geth. I want a goddamn flash card, that's all a paragraph of text from one of the developers that says, "They didn't die because X" then a card for ecah squad mate.

I liked DA:O's ending, I felt CLOSURE, at that ending, that was a conclusive ending.

[The Angry One]

Rolando93 wrote...

Trapped on Rannoch? What will they do? Rebuild their home world?

With what? THe bulk of their fleet - if not all of it - is at Earth.

They lived on that planet before the mass relays. Also is Rannoch truly a desolate wasteland? No. Especially if there are liveships still on Rannoch which I'm sure there are since I doubt the quarians sent their children off to fight Reapers on Earth.

All of their liveships are at Earth, we see them. This is not debatable. Likely, all of the Quarians are. It's either fight the Reapers at Earth, or risk a Reaper coming to kill them on Rannoch.

[firebreather19]

Rafe34 wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

I don't recall them saying that, all I remember was that it was an end of Shep's story

"We will not leave you with more questions than answers."
"We will not pull a LOST on the fanbase."
"It will not at all be like a traditional video game ending, where you just pick ending A, B, or C."
"The ending will be based on your choices throughout the series. Why would you be forced into the same bespoke ending that everyone gets?"

etc., etc. Go look up the developer quotes, there are plenty of threads dedicated to the pretty much outright lies that were given to us.

That's not how they worded it, and I'm actually a little disappointed no one considers the subtleties that went into crafting the ending. EMS, saving/destroying the base, etc. 

The biggest problem with ME3 is not really a problem but more that people got used to how the game works. In ME2 it was "Oh, lost a squadmate? Well just go back to the previous save and do this-and-this-and-this and there...better ending." Same can be said for ME3...most people won't jump in and play it blind until the end and take the licks, they just do everything and the small things that should matter end up being missed because they got the optimal(ish) ending the first time. 

[Sidney]

CaptainIngenuity wrote...
It is always interesting to see people state that the the entirety of the universe as the game knows it is not destroyed.  You mean the ending with the explosion seen on a galactic scale (if its viewable on a galactic scale NOTHING IS ALIVE).  There is no difference between the "type" of explosion it made.  Simply using the word explosion (discharge is no different, you cannot discharge energy at this rate and still not change physics as it works in the ME universe) means that anything within known space near that relay just went to a much better place,  a place without this ending.

For the sake of the argument however lets consider that posters stating the relays did not cause supernovas were correct.  Okay, you have now isolated the entire known universe.  The codex states that depending on your EMS you have collected the majority of the known fleets in the entire universe around a single planet that has been devestated by war the entire length of the game.  Reapers destroy the energy and fuel resources of those they destroy as they do not need them.  They have neither the resources, the time, the energy, the food, nor the ability to  continue.  Congratulations you have starved.  

There is no future in this, this isn't in any way a happy, dark or bittersweet ending (dooming future societies to cannibalism isnt bittersweet) as all three of your choices arent expounded upon and even if taken at face value are ludicrous at best.

So much wrong here.

Not all explosions are the same. An EMP pulse is a discharge and it is definately different than the shockwave from a conventional bomb. One blows up my ipod the other blows up me. The pulse that stops the REapers is, in most endings, clearly shown to not be destructive unless you get the earth burns ending. In my ending the wave takes out the reapers and you see people cheering as it passes over them.

The universe is isloated but the universe was isloated at some point before the relays were found by each species. They sruvived then without them they'll survive again. If airplanes no longer flew on earth it would be horriblke, disasterous and dislocating...but it wouldn't mean people would all die.

Finally, as I said before starvation is unlikely in a masisve scale (clearly localized issues with appear) but since the Reapers hit population centers and not rural areas they food growing parts of the worlds will have likely survived.

[The Angry One]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

If we don't see it apparently on screen its a plothole  even though the game is full of every answer if you look

Explain the Normandy scene right now or withdraw this claim.

Because the stargazer said "And The Shepards disciples narrowly escaped the conflict", and what was on screen was the child's interpretation of that story.  Pretty basic when dealing with an unrealiable narrator.  Though that is just one interpretation.

It's that easy.

<_<

[Rolando93]

Dridengx wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.

It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.

you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy

SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY!

Why does everyone need to know EXACTLY what happens. Apparently humanity survives into the future. Ask Buzz Aldrin.

If we don't see it apparently on screen its a plothole  even though the game is full of every answer if you look

It's like everyone just wants to talk to a Bioware rep, tell them what they want to see, and then just watch it on the TV screen.

Modifié par Rolando93, 01 avril 2012 - 05:30 .

[Karrie788]

Sidney wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...
Well English is my second language, so I may not be always clear about what I would have wanted about the endings. I apologize.
I was under the impression that this thread was about the fact that many players, myself included, cared more about the fate of their friends than a faceless galaxy 10,000 years from now, that's why I focused on that. My main problems with the endings are the absolute nonsense that they are, the abomination of the Catalyst, the idiocy of the Normandy scene, and the fact that they introduce new themes and a new central conflict in the last five minutes. The fact that it's a "LOT OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE" kind of ending. I hated that. In fact I hated every single aspect of the ending. The only thing that made me smile for a second is that Big Ben did not collapse. Yay.

And actually yes, I would have liked a DAO type of ending as closure. It's not much, but it's an effective way of showing the consequences of your actions. It worked quite beautifully in New Vegas, Fallout 1 and Fallout 2.

I agree 100% with all of this you said: " My main problems with the endings are the absolute nonsense that they
are, the abomination of the Catalyst, the idiocy of the Normandy scene,
and the fact that they introduce new themes and a new central conflict in the last five minutes. "

I hate the content of the endings because it fails to explain in any reasonable way why I had to  just save the galaxy.

I think where I differ is that all I expected to do was save the galaxy. That was my mission critical goal for all 3 games. Would an end card about Garrus' bistro on Palavan been awful, no. At the time time I'm not sure it is necessary because knowing he's alive is really the core function.

Fair enough. The thing is, I'm not sure he's going to survive in the ending. You know, the whole "is there dextro food on Eden planet" thing. I'm lost. That, I think, is where I lack closure. Not specifically Garrus of course, but all the characters. I just don't know what happened to them.

[Shaigunjoe]

Sidney wrote...

CaptainIngenuity wrote...
It is always interesting to see people state that the the entirety of the universe as the game knows it is not destroyed.  You mean the ending with the explosion seen on a galactic scale (if its viewable on a galactic scale NOTHING IS ALIVE).  There is no difference between the "type" of explosion it made.  Simply using the word explosion (discharge is no different, you cannot discharge energy at this rate and still not change physics as it works in the ME universe) means that anything within known space near that relay just went to a much better place,  a place without this ending.

For the sake of the argument however lets consider that posters stating the relays did not cause supernovas were correct.  Okay, you have now isolated the entire known universe.  The codex states that depending on your EMS you have collected the majority of the known fleets in the entire universe around a single planet that has been devestated by war the entire length of the game.  Reapers destroy the energy and fuel resources of those they destroy as they do not need them.  They have neither the resources, the time, the energy, the food, nor the ability to  continue.  Congratulations you have starved.  

There is no future in this, this isn't in any way a happy, dark or bittersweet ending (dooming future societies to cannibalism isnt bittersweet) as all three of your choices arent expounded upon and even if taken at face value are ludicrous at best.

So much wrong here.

Not all explosions are the same. An EMP pulse is a discharge and it is definately different than the shockwave from a conventional bomb. One blows up my ipod the other blows up me. The pulse that stops the REapers is, in most endings, clearly shown to not be destructive unless you get the earth burns ending. In my ending the wave takes out the reapers and you see people cheering as it passes over them.

The universe is isloated but the universe was isloated at some point before the relays were found by each species. They sruvived then without them they'll survive again. If airplanes no longer flew on earth it would be horriblke, disasterous and dislocating...but it wouldn't mean people would all die.

Finally, as I said before starvation is unlikely in a masisve scale (clearly localized issues with appear) but since the Reapers hit population centers and not rural areas they food growing parts of the worlds will have likely survived.

Indeed.  To quote that old guy from Jurassic Park "Life finds a way"

[mpgeist]

I love how angry you are, Angry One. (To be fair, I agree with your points)

[The Angry One]

Hold onto your hats! The strawmen and coming thick and fast!