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[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Turtlicious wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...

Turtlicious wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Right, because teaching another species to grow food on a ship and giving them the tech to do so requires magic.

It requires infrastructure and resources they don't have.

you have no idea what resources are left in the galaxy

SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY!

Why does everyone need to know EXACTLY what happens. Apparently humanity survives into the future. Ask Buzz Aldrin.

Because this was supposed to be a conclusion.

It was supposed to be conclusive.

Hence why we say it's the conclusion to the series.

The conclusion is that you destroyed, controlled, or synthesized synthetics and that life can continue on without the Reapers killing everyone. What kind of conclusion are you looking for. Do you want to know if Wrex does name his kid Mordin? If he does do you want to know about Mordin's adventures? Do you want to know about how the geth and quarians get along. Whatever they would tell you won't last indefinitely. Things change as time goes on so there is no true conclusion in sight.

Yes because, Hell, I want to know what color Liara's ******'s are and if Wrex litterally ****ed ALL the ****es. I want to know all that, I also want to know if his kid Mordin had a quad. And what color that quad was, and how much he fiddled with his quad at the age of 20.

I also want to know what the **** happened to the humans turians quarians and geth. I want a goddamn flash card, that's all a paragraph of text from one of the developers that says, "They didn't die because X" then a card for ecah squad mate.

I liked DA:O's ending, I felt CLOSURE, at that ending, that was a conclusive ending.

Although maybe a bit more detail than most of us would have wanted I have to agree DA:O had a great and conclusive ending with many variables. Mass Effect 3 didn't.

[CaptainIngenuity]

Rolando93 wrote...


Trapped on Rannoch? What will they do? Rebuild their home world? They lived on that planet before the mass relays. Also is Rannoch truly a desolate wasteland? No. Especially if there are liveships still on Rannoch which I'm sure there are since I doubt the quarians sent their children off to fight Reapers on Earth.

So im guessing you missed the part where they have absolutely no immune system and little to no knowledge of agriculture and were heavily reliant on the geth to even begin settling their new planet.   Those geth you just murderfied near earth.  

Destruction of the reapers was the entire goal of the series but im pretty sure the premise of it became cringe worthy when the Catalyst and Crucible are only explained as an explosive off button for technology.  

You dont help the future by stifling all of its technology and hoping everything will be better

[Vhalkyrie]

firebreather19 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Again this is assuming that the mass relays don't destroy the star systems as shown in Arrival.  I believe they do because that was the point of Arrival, and is stated in the codex.  In which case, trillions of lives are destroyed.  Saying the mass relays don't go supernova at this point is contradictory and uncorroborated to the lore they established in the events prior to ME3.

No it's not. It's in the ending. Joker and the Normandy weren't incinerated. They survived, and were being chased down by the purported "space magic." Not only that, but you're comparing the destruction of a nuclear bomb's shell to a nuclear bomb with material inside. One goes boomity boom, the other just kind of falls apart.

The Normandy was running from space magic indeed.  We are shown the star clusters in an expanse of light.  Light is visible energy.  That much light visible from space means catastrophe, and no one would want to be anywhere near it.  If the mass relay wasn't destroyed, it should have had its core powered down.  No resulting technicolored fireworks display from the arms of the milky way should have been visible.  Massive expanse of light means explosion.

[CmdrStJean]

So, given all the raging and complaining that's been going on over the ending since the 6th, I'm starting to wonder just why exactly Bioware thought this nihilistic tragedy of theirs would land well with the fans?  What was it about the current set of endings that purportedly made Casey Hudson and Mac Walters feel they would be acceptable?  I do note that some people seem to be okay with how things have turned out but at least around here they don't seem to be in the majority.  I have my own reasons for not liking what happened and how the conclusion was handled, but I'd still like to know why the powers that be thought this was the right path to take.

I mean let's assume for a moment that they're telling the truth, and this really is the direction they wanted to go in.  Let's suppose that the ending wasn't rushed, or changed at the last second, or conspiratorially edited as to imply indoctrination.  If so many people were invested in the present cycle, galactic civilization and the characters (as they are) why in the world would anyone craft a bookend narrative that throws all those things out in favor of a nebulous potential "future" in which galactic civilization may, possibly, be rebuilt, albeit along different lines?  What was it that made the ending that we HAVE, so compelling to the developers of Mass Effect?

I'll admit I don't see the appeal, but it must be there.  I suppose if one takes a very detached view of Shepard and his Team, one that views them more simply as tools to affect an end, it makes sense.  If your only focus is how to handle the Reaper problem, then almost any price will be acceptable so long as the final outcome is achieved.  Maybe Misters Hudson and Waters figured that, in a very littleral sense, nothing of the past matters once the Reapers are gone anyway.  It's a new beginning, the slate is wiped clean utterly and now new stuff happens.  That's all well and good, but for the life of me, I can't figure why they would think the rest of us would be interested in such a bleak and final resolution.  Like the OP pointed out, I don't give a damn about simply ending the cycle, I want to preserve the Galaxy as it is.  Why doesn't Bioware?

(Just to make sure I 'm clear here, I'm writing this as though Bioware fully intended to produce the ending(s) as is.  This is presuming no monetary issues, no time constraints or interference from EA, and no simple narrative failures.)

Modifié par CmdrStJean, 01 avril 2012 - 05:33 .

[Rolando93]

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...

Trapped on Rannoch? What will they do? Rebuild their home world?

With what? THe bulk of their fleet - if not all of it - is at Earth.

They lived on that planet before the mass relays. Also is Rannoch truly a desolate wasteland? No. Especially if there are liveships still on Rannoch which I'm sure there are since I doubt the quarians sent their children off to fight Reapers on Earth.

All of their liveships are at Earth, we see them. This is not debatable. Likely, all of the Quarians are. It's either fight the Reapers at Earth, or risk a Reaper coming to kill them on Rannoch.

Did every other race send ALL of their people to Earth as well?

[Quietness]

HenchxNarf wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

Synthesis ending is, for me, the absolute worst choice possible. I am not becoming Saren, I am not deciding by myself the fate of the entire galaxy. And we absolutely don't know what the long-term consequences are. It doesn't solve anything and people are still stranded.

I cried too on my Amell playthrough. I sent her to her death. And the ending worked.

But it isn't if you think about it. You saved people, instead of destroying them. You saved the Geth and EDI. Yeah, you decided the fate of the galaxy, but you likely saved them as well. Yeah, they're stranded. But they would be stranded regardless, right? But with a better chance at survival. Shepard is technically a synthesized being, if you think about it. You're even told that, when you're given the destroy option.

Saren, like TIM had the right ideas, they were just extremists. No, we don't know. Neither do we know the long term consequences of destroying all synthetic life, either. It's just something you have to understand.

Heroes have to make tough decisions, it's one of the things that makes a hero a hero.

Galatic Eugenics is hands down more evil than destroy, cause at least the geth dont have to suffer. You have crashed ecosystems due to sudden implementation of an unknown factor (namely that all plant and animal life is now part synthetic). Viruses are also now partially synthetic (being organic life), Treatments target genetic marks but DNA is different so there is no stopping them. Heaven forbid that you also give them the ability to think for themselves (we dont know what a virus becoming partial synthetic would be, if anything it will be much akin to nano-tech).

[firebreather19]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Sidney wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...
Good for you. Honestly. I wish I was in your position. The endings left me completely devastated. I would have been fine with Shep dying (although I would have bawled like a baby as I did in DA:O) if I had a little closure about her friends.
I disagree about the happy ending part. It should have been an option, for me. Not rainbows and puppies, obviously, but one option in which not everything basically goes to hell.

Can you please tell me what closure looks like? Again, it sounds like you want Animal House/DAO is that it? I really hate to think all this hatred for the ending ignore the real flaws and instead focuses on something as trival as getting some end cards like DAO had.

I want Bioware to do what they promised.

That's all.

^This.

I think it's fine that folks like the current ending, despite it being ripped from another game...but it's not at all what Bioware was claiming it would be just weeks before release. Artistic integrity aside (and I feel they have no right to this arguement anyway, again because their ending isn't even original), a company boldly lying to it's consumer base should not sit well with anyone. It's a consumer's responsibility to call them on it and demand change.

"ripped from another game"

You're talking about a franchise built on Star Wars, Star Trek, Deus Ex, and choose-your-own-adventure books. 

But please, go on about what big thieves the Bioware folks are. I'd also like to see you saying that when ME1 first came out and it was obvious they were going for another galaxy-in-peril sci-fi story. 

[Turtlicious]

Sidney wrote...

So much wrong here.

Not all explosions are the same. An EMP pulse is a discharge and it is definately different than the shockwave from a conventional bomb. One blows up my ipod the other blows up me. The pulse that stops the REapers is, in most endings, clearly shown to not be destructive unless you get the earth burns ending. In my ending the wave takes out the reapers and you see people cheering as it passes over them.

The universe is isloated but the universe was isloated at some point before the relays were found by each species. They sruvived then without them they'll survive again. If airplanes no longer flew on earth it would be horriblke, disasterous and dislocating...but it wouldn't mean people would all die.

Finally, as I said before starvation is unlikely in a masisve scale (clearly localized issues with appear) but since the Reapers hit population centers and not rural areas they food growing parts of the worlds will have likely survived.

Yes but when an EMP goes off you can't see it, and if it's too strong you catch cancer.

These explosions were big enough to see on a GALAXY MAP, they were obviously irradiated because where did the color come from? If you didn't kill everyone from the super nova, you just flooded them with radiation until they died.

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

Completely agree. It seems BioWare completely forgot what made the ME 'verse so good (and what made it notable in the first place).

[curufinwe03]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

If we don't see it apparently on screen its a plothole  even though the game is full of every answer if you look

Explain the Normandy scene right now or withdraw this claim.

Because the stargazer said "And The Shepards disciples narrowly escaped the conflict", and what was on screen was the child's interpretation of that story.  Pretty basic when dealing with an unrealiable narrator.  Though that is just one interpretation.

It's that easy.

And when does in your opinion the narration, or interpetation, of the old man starts? Maybe on Eden Prime when Nihlus is shot or more during the love scene with the beautiful blue lady?

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

Turtlicious wrote...

Sidney wrote...

So much wrong here.

Not all explosions are the same. An EMP pulse is a discharge and it is definately different than the shockwave from a conventional bomb. One blows up my ipod the other blows up me. The pulse that stops the REapers is, in most endings, clearly shown to not be destructive unless you get the earth burns ending. In my ending the wave takes out the reapers and you see people cheering as it passes over them.

The universe is isloated but the universe was isloated at some point before the relays were found by each species. They sruvived then without them they'll survive again. If airplanes no longer flew on earth it would be horriblke, disasterous and dislocating...but it wouldn't mean people would all die.

Finally, as I said before starvation is unlikely in a masisve scale (clearly localized issues with appear) but since the Reapers hit population centers and not rural areas they food growing parts of the worlds will have likely survived.

Yes but when an EMP goes off you can't see it, and if it's too strong you catch cancer.

These explosions were big enough to see on a GALAXY MAP, they were obviously irradiated because where did the color come from? If you didn't kill everyone from the super nova, you just flooded them with radiation until they died.

SPACE MAGIC!

SEE? LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE!

[Torrible]

The Angry One wrote...

Torrible wrote...


We don't know how devastated they were. We know millions were killed. We don't know if there were enough resources within the home systems for them to rebuild.

The Reapers destroy all major cities, throwing up tons of ash and debris into the air, we see large parts of these planets on fire. Reaper standard MO is to destroy all infrastructure in the system and surrounding cluster, that includes all space stations, colonies, fuel refineries, mines and farms. 

That's their MO. We don't know how successful or determined they were. If there was so little left to salvage, the mass relays wouldn't matter anyway.

[ZiegenkonigIII]

Dear god this thread is moving to fast!

[Rolando93]

CmdrStJean wrote...

So, given all the raging and complaining that's been going on over the ending since the 6th, I'm starting to wonder just why exactly Bioware thought this nihilistic tragedy of theirs would land well with the fans?  What was it about the current set of endings that purportedly made Casey Hudson and Mac Walters feel they would be acceptable?  I do note that some people seem to be okay with how things have turned out but at least around here they don't seem to be in the majority. 

It only seems that way because most of the people who liked the ending don't feel the need to bring it up.

[firebreather19]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

firebreather19 wrote...

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Again this is assuming that the mass relays don't destroy the star systems as shown in Arrival.  I believe they do because that was the point of Arrival, and is stated in the codex.  In which case, trillions of lives are destroyed.  Saying the mass relays don't go supernova at this point is contradictory and uncorroborated to the lore they established in the events prior to ME3.

No it's not. It's in the ending. Joker and the Normandy weren't incinerated. They survived, and were being chased down by the purported "space magic." Not only that, but you're comparing the destruction of a nuclear bomb's shell to a nuclear bomb with material inside. One goes boomity boom, the other just kind of falls apart.

The Normandy was running from space magic indeed.  We are shown the star clusters in an expanse of light.  Light is visible energy.  That much light visible from space means catastrophe, and no one would want to be anywhere near it.  If the mass relay wasn't destroyed, it should have had its core powered down.  No resulting technicolored fireworks display from the arms of the milky way should have been visible.  Massive expanse of light means explosion.

No, it means red blue or green light spread throughout those individual clusters, either destroying synthetics, combining them with organics, or recalling the Reapers. 

[DJBare]

Why would there be any quarians on Rannoch?, the entire fleet was called to earth, even if they left some behind to scout Rannoch there certainly would not be enough for a viable population.

[ZiegenkonigIII]

Rolando93 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...

Trapped on Rannoch? What will they do? Rebuild their home world?

With what? THe bulk of their fleet - if not all of it - is at Earth.

They lived on that planet before the mass relays. Also is Rannoch truly a desolate wasteland? No. Especially if there are liveships still on Rannoch which I'm sure there are since I doubt the quarians sent their children off to fight Reapers on Earth.

All of their liveships are at Earth, we see them. This is not debatable. Likely, all of the Quarians are. It's either fight the Reapers at Earth, or risk a Reaper coming to kill them on Rannoch.

Did every other race send ALL of their people to Earth as well?

They didn't have to, they sent most of their strongest ships, i.e some of the only ones who could travel between solar systems.  They have removed their ability for interstellar travel, with the destruction of the relays being the nail in the coffin.

[HenchxNarf]

Karrie788 wrote...

I see your point but I still disagree.

We have absolutely no idea what synthesis could do to people on the long term. We don't know if we saved them for good. First thing that popped in my mind when the Catalyst brought the option up is that I was going to change the entire galaxy into husks. And since the conclusion is so vague, I can imagine anything from there. Maybe people will go mad since their body changed so much and they can't cope with it. We just don't know. We can go anywhere from there.
I am not trusting a Reaper, I don't want Shepard to be the sole "savior" of the galaxy and I am not buying into the message that removing diversity is a good thing. It's nonsensical and it sends completely wrong messages in my opinion.

If you listened to the Reaper on Rannoch, they said that they are the salvation. That the harvesting MUST be done. We don't really know anything for sure, but, what if the reapers aren't really the bad guys? Well, really, there is no bad guy. It's the synthetics, the AI. They don't know what will happen with no more organics, so they're trying to preserve some sort of organic life knowing that humanity is TOO intelligent and will create more and more AI that can be fully functional and take over and kill everything.

Think Terminator, kind of. Except the Reapers can't survive without organic life.

Shepard kind of threw a wrench in the design. It's Harbinger that want's Shepard, not the Reapers as a whole. The Reapers are computers, as evidence by the kid saying "we the Reapers". The Crucible was never really meant to be a weapon, per se.

And maybe the reason Shepard is able to 'fire' the weapon is because Shep is part machine, thanks to TIM. Your brain was mush, they rebuilt you out of synthetics. 

IDK. There's a reason for everything.

[The Angry One]

Rolando93 wrote...

Did every other race send ALL of their people to Earth as well?

The Quarians are their flotilla. They are virtually inseperable.
Moreover, leaving undefended Quarians on Rannoch would be suicide. The Reapers WILL come to investigate the loss of control of the Geth and they know this because they SAY SO.

[The Angry One]

HenchxNarf wrote...

IDK. There's speculation for everything.

Fixed. Please continue, Hench. You are an infinite source of amusement.

[Zix13]

Cycle was broken, so was the galaxy.

[Rafe34]

firebreather19 wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Leozilla wrote...

I don't recall them saying that, all I remember was that it was an end of Shep's story

"We will not leave you with more questions than answers."
"We will not pull a LOST on the fanbase."
"It will not at all be like a traditional video game ending, where you just pick ending A, B, or C."
"The ending will be based on your choices throughout the series. Why would you be forced into the same bespoke ending that everyone gets?"

etc., etc. Go look up the developer quotes, there are plenty of threads dedicated to the pretty much outright lies that were given to us.

That's not how they worded it, and I'm actually a little disappointed no one considers the subtleties that went into crafting the ending. EMS, saving/destroying the base, etc. 

The biggest problem with ME3 is not really a problem but more that people got used to how the game works. In ME2 it was "Oh, lost a squadmate? Well just go back to the previous save and do this-and-this-and-this and there...better ending." 

You, sir, are incorrect. That's exactly how Mr. Hudson worded it:  "That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C." - Casey Hudson, jan 11, 2012 

As to your second point- so what? That's their prerogative. I lost Mordin and killed Wrex on my first playthrough of ME1 and ME2. I kept that Shepard. I still have her. She's in stasis since it's so sad after losing Thane, (she went with Liara and then Thane, now possibly back to Liara, we'll see), but it's called role-playing. 

Modifié par Rafe34, 01 avril 2012 - 05:40 .

[The Angry One]

Torrible wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Torrible wrote...


We don't know how devastated they were. We know millions were killed. We don't know if there were enough resources within the home systems for them to rebuild.

The Reapers destroy all major cities, throwing up tons of ash and debris into the air, we see large parts of these planets on fire. Reaper standard MO is to destroy all infrastructure in the system and surrounding cluster, that includes all space stations, colonies, fuel refineries, mines and farms. 

That's their MO. We don't know how successful or determined they were. If there was so little left to salvage, the mass relays wouldn't matter anyway.

Erm. Yes they would. You can go to other systems, find as yet untouched resources, get more help, especially from Salarian space.

[Quietness]

Rolando93 wrote...

CmdrStJean wrote...

So, given all the raging and complaining that's been going on over the ending since the 6th, I'm starting to wonder just why exactly Bioware thought this nihilistic tragedy of theirs would land well with the fans?  What was it about the current set of endings that purportedly made Casey Hudson and Mac Walters feel they would be acceptable?  I do note that some people seem to be okay with how things have turned out but at least around here they don't seem to be in the majority. 

It only seems that way because most of the people who liked the ending don't feel the need to bring it up.

LOL "I can only prove that there are 700 people standing behind me by using facebook so instead i will claim everyone who has not voiced their opinion as obviously they agree with me.... cause well they do"

[Rolando93]

CaptainIngenuity wrote...

Rolando93 wrote...


Trapped on Rannoch? What will they do? Rebuild their home world? They lived on that planet before the mass relays. Also is Rannoch truly a desolate wasteland? No. Especially if there are liveships still on Rannoch which I'm sure there are since I doubt the quarians sent their children off to fight Reapers on Earth.

So im guessing you missed the part where they have absolutely no immune system and little to no knowledge of agriculture and were heavily reliant on the geth to even begin settling their new planet.   Those geth you just murderfied near earth.  

Destruction of the reapers was the entire goal of the series but im pretty sure the premise of it became cringe worthy when the Catalyst and Crucible are only explained as an explosive off button for technology.  

You dont help the future by stifling all of its technology and hoping everything will be better

Synthetics are the only things destroyed meaning it is possibly only synthetic codes like VIs and AIs that are destroyed. Also that only happens if you choose for it to. As well if you destroyed the geth that is only your game. And any geth destroyed in physical combat could upload to quarian suits which helps to bolster quarian immune systems. And what makes you think quarians know nothing about agriculture. Where do you think they get their food?