1291 réponses à ce sujet

[GargamelLeNoir]

Angry One, I officially rename you Spot On One.

[Dark_Caduceus]

Actually, if you pick the red ending, the cycle is merely delayed. Pity it's the only one that lets Shepard actually destroy the Reapers.

[Tal_Elmar]

exactly, OP

It's like everything we cared for in Mass Effect universe was taken away from as in the very end, replaced by some abstract future 'well-being' and a c**load of craziness

[xxLDZxx]

Star trek one of the longest sci fi series in TV had a brilliant idea.Saw it first time in Star Trek.

SNG Picard introduced DS9 Sisko he introduced Voyager Janeway.
In Stargate O'Neill and Jackson introduced the Atlantis mission.
Babylon 5--->Excalibur

this gave some continuity to the whole show.Not totally new stuff but part of something bigger.

With this, lets hope not, 10k in the future idea the whole continuity is lost its not any more my Mass Effect. Why shooed I care?

The only thing that could stay the same is Mass Effect but just coming back for a name that could be everything or nothing.

Sound like a gamble.

[Austin N]

Great post. OP. And yet, I don't feel exactly the same as you. Me, I truly was fighting for everyone, both my squadmates and the faceless masses. I loved thinking about how my choices affected the galaxy at large.

When I talked down Major Kyle and when I saved Chairman Burns I thought "I've helped biotics to become more accepted and receive the help that they need."

When I heard that the Alliance and Turian fleets were conducting joint exercises for the purpose of working closer together, I thought "Cool, maybe they'll be able to decrease pirate attacks."

When I heard that the Sirta Foundation was going strong and had discovered a way to treat a new strain of interspecies influenza, I thought "Neat, think about all of the sick people they'll be able to help." (Ignoring the glitch and going by the proper canon)

When I helped Liara become the Shadow Broker and used the Investment Opportunities, I realized just how many people she could help with her resources, how much good she could do.

When I retrived the weather manipulating technology from the Geth, and was told that it might make terraforming planets for colonization easier, I thought "Awesome, we could always use more colonies."

Every one of those choices made me say "I did that. I helped the galaxy become a better place to live." And because of all that, Mass Effect 3 was kind of hard for me. I felt it when Earth was attacked. I felt it when Palaven was devestated. I felt it when Thessia fell. Every time I heard about another destroyed coloney, I felt sad.

And yet, despite all that, I felt hope. I resolved conflicts that were centuries, if not millenia old. I helped restore the krogan's culture and gave them the respect they used to have. I gave the Quarians their homeworld back, and made it so the Geth could live in peace. I gave the Rachni the chance to save their species, and perhaps integrate themselves into the galactic community. The batarians cuture was destroyed, but the possibility of the survivors creating something better was there. Worlds were wrecked, millions of lives lost, but what might happen after a century of rebuilding? All those races working together, what heights could they reach?

We see a lot of the problems of the Mass Effect universe. Horrible things happen and there's a lot of prejudice. But when you look past that, do you notice just how cool things are? The kind of technology they have, the social ills that are reduced, if not gone completely. Trillions of people influencing each other. They have the whole galaxy to explore. Imagine the things they have, the discovery, all of the art and culture. Even an asari couldn't experience everything the galaxy has to offer.

And that's why the loss of the mass relays sting so much. Even if each planet is doing fine, even if the individual civilizations have recovered, without space travel they can never experience the kind of wonder that made the Mass Effect universe so engaging. Perhaps Bioware wanted to imply that someday they will, but if we don't get to see it then it's a victory that feels hollow.

Modifié par Austin N, 01 avril 2012 - 01:33 .

[Dean_the_Young]

ZiegenkonigIII wrote...

Your friends are alive but we don't have any information to say they can survive on that planet. 

It's a Garden World. It's pretty heavily implied, especially in the context of the blatant appeal to symbolism of the scene.

And that's without the other open-ended possibilities, such as the planet being already colonized (the only known garden world near Earth has a colony), help coming in from afar (local search efforts from Eaarth), or being able to jurry rig their own solution.


There's no information saying they will survive, but there's also no information saying they won't. The presumption that they'll die unless you're explicitly told they won't is a reflection of you, not the game.

We also know that since they don't have a large enough population on the ship, they will die of old age, and at best their children will live on until they die of old age.

Congratulations to life anywhere.

You are going to die. At best, you will be succeded by your children, who will also die. Your children's children will also die.

Are we recognizing a pattern here?

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 01 avril 2012 - 01:31 .

[animallover11]

I completely agree, OP.
Hold the line! (maybe we'll get what we want eventually.)

[afie]

Exactly how i (and by looking at the replies to this thread a lot of us) feel. I couldn't care less about future races or that 'the cycle is broken'. That is not why i played, sure it was a bonus, but not WHY i played. I cared about the characters, and all the races that are in the games and THAT'S why i played, it was for them that i fought.

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]The Angry One wrote...

I care about this galaxy, as is. I care about Garrus, [/quote]Alive and open to further adventures.

[quote]
about Liara,[/quote]Alive and open to further adventures.

[quote]about Kaidan, [/quote]Alive and open to further adventures.

[quote]
about Tali building her home on Rannoch,[/quote]Still possible.

[quote]about Wrex raising his new children. [/quote]Still possible.

[quote]I care about Jack and her students,[/quote]Still possible.

[quote]about Conrad,[/quote]He never had much foreshadowing, but he can still exist.

[quote]about Bailey.[/quote]Probably died, but if there's no body-

[quote]I care about the Turians,[/quote]Turian civiliation still exists.
[quote]
the Asari,[/quote]Asari civilization still exists.

[quote]the Quarians,[/quote]If you didn't kill them, they still exist.
[quote]
the Geth,[/quote]If you didn't kill them, they still exist.

[quote]the Krogans.[/quote]They still exist.

[quote]
Heck I even care about Vega and his N7 promotion.[/quote]No reason that can't carry on in a surviving Earth.
[quote]
That's what I care about, the characters I've gotten to know for 3 games. Not some nebulous, unseen and uneeded future. For that, you might as well let the Reapers win, because it amounts to exactly the same thing in the end. This isn't just about Shepard's unhappy ending. I want a happy ending, but even if it had to be a sacrifice, then I want that sacrifice to mean something other than some alien I don't care about not fearing the robotic squids from hell.
[/quote]Since you're clearly determined to project the worst and deny all possiblities that would satisfy you, what would it matter?

[Dean_the_Young]

Austin N wrote...

And that's why the loss of the mass relays sting so much. Even if each planet is doing fine, even if the individual civilizations have recovered, without space travel they can never experience the kind of wonder that made the Mass Effect universe so engaging. Perhaps Bioware wanted to imply that someday they will, but if we don't get to see it then it's a victory that feels hollow.

Besides that space travel still exists, just have a sequel series about bringing the galaxy back together with a conflict over building new relays.

[Peete]

I'd take Conrad off the list.

Everything else:

Jigokou wrote...

You hit the nail on the head OP. 

[ed87]

My gf used to hate Star Wars but once she became invested in some of the characters she wanted to see more. Bioware underestimated the importance of their characters, and the fate of them deserved more than 'lots of speculations!!'

[pjotroos]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Since you're clearly determined to project the worst and deny all possiblities that would satisfy you, what would it matter?

Not getting it. It's not about "projecting" the best or the worst. It's not about making up what happens next. It's about the story actually providing the conclusion. We wouldn't even need the game to start with if we were supposed to make it up ourselves in the end.

[nicksmi56]

@Dean_the_Young Garrus and Tali are most likelly dead, unles mystery planet has foods they can eat. We're not even sure the food isn't poisonous or something. Nobody knows where they are. Unless you assume everything on said planet is hunky dory, your squad is dead

[phantomdasilva]

Dean The young

The issue isn't that they are alive or dead.

Yes they are alive, whoppy doo

The problem is that the ending compeltely disregards the personal relationship shepard has with the crew and also with the civilization they had met and brokered alliance with. So shepard died sacrificing his life to save the galaxy.

So what is the legacy that sacrifice has on the crew or your love interest. Was there a funeral, did we see them simultaneously grief for your death and yet have hope that future to the peace that shepard won through his/her sacrifice.

We fought for the survival of the asari,krogan/rannoch/geth
However we don't see the impact of shepard's sacrifice onthose society or on the fleet that was stranded.

The ending was very depersonalised and stuck with shepard making a choice that was of great significance without seeing the impact of that choice on the people you care about.

So yes, they are alive but they are so disconnected to the decision you make..

By the way, have a read of my previous post on page 36 about suspension of disbelief in fiction

[alx119]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
-snips lots of garbage-

Since you're clearly determined to project the worst and deny all possiblities that would satisfy you, what would it matter?

The ending doesn't project any real optimism after that. Following Mass Effect's established lore everything leads to a very very dark future for all those races. Including extinction of the life in whole planets, the fleets stranded on Earth, and that's being the most optimistic, because everything points out that the Mass Relays went supernova and there's no creature alive in the universe. 

You are being delusional by believing that everything can be fine and dandy after all the destruction the damn crucible causes. And, again, you are being delusional if you think that for the crew of the Normandy, which is composed by different alien cultures btw, can survive in a planet just because it's got green in it. A clear proof that a planet needs more than green to sustain varied life is in ME1 with the toxic planets, and ME2 in Jacob's loyalty mission. 

You can speculate that BioWare's intentions were to leave everything fine and dandy, and I won't disagree. But it's not factual, and again, following the lore of the game, the most probable thing is quite the opposite as optimism. 

[BobbyTheI]

alx119 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
-snips lots of garbage-

Since you're clearly determined to project the worst and deny all possiblities that would satisfy you, what would it matter?

The ending doesn't project any real optimism after that. Following Mass Effect's established lore everything leads to a very very dark future for all those races. Including extinction of the life in whole planets, the fleets stranded on Earth, and that's being the most optimistic, because everything points out that the Mass Relays went supernova and there's no creature alive in the universe. 

You are being delusional by believing that everything can be fine and dandy after all the destruction the damn crucible causes. And, again, you are being delusional if you think that for the crew of the Normandy, which is composed by different alien cultures btw, can survive in a planet just because it's got green in it. A clear proof that a planet needs more than green to sustain varied life is in ME1 with the toxic planets, and ME2 in Jacob's loyalty mission. 

You can speculate that BioWare's intentions were to leave everything fine and dandy, and I won't disagree. But it's not factual, and again, following the lore of the game, the most probable thing is quite the opposite as optimism. 

Yes, I may have said it somewhere before, but the real problem with trying to find a bright side in the ME3 ending is that it basically forces you to become a fanfic writer.

If you take what the ending gives you at face value, using only the lore established up to this point, then the ending is utterly depressing.  Joker and your friends running away for no apparent reason, stranded on an unknown planet in the middle of nowhere with food that several of the squadmates can't eat, and the explosion of the mass relays destroying everything in the star systems they're in.

And any justifications to make it less depressing (A replacement for the convenient travel provided by the relays, an unseen colony on the jungle planet, a "different kind of explosion") all require you to introduce things into the storyline that weren't in the actual game.  In essence, you're writing your own fanfic to justify why the ending isn't extremely depressing.

Which is what a lot of folks out there who hate the ending are doing too, I imagine.  But some of us, we kinda want the folks who wrote 99% of our favorite video games series of all time to come up with something a little more official than that.

[Dean_the_Young]

pjotroos wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Since you're clearly determined to project the worst and deny all possiblities that would satisfy you, what would it matter?

Not getting it. It's not about "projecting" the best or the worst. It's not about making up what happens next. It's about the story actually providing the conclusion. We wouldn't even need the game to start with if we were supposed to make it up ourselves in the end.

Except projection is a key part of roleplaying. The entire concept of Shepard as a player avator is implicitly tied with participation on the player's part, adding in backstory and motivations too nuanced and not reflected by what the game actually gives.

If Mass Effect were to be judged entirely on what it provides alone, it would quite frankly be one of the worst games of all time because Shepard is a brick with a name. Shepard has no concrete past, very few 'canonical' opinions, and no set personality with even fewer established views. Even the Paragon/Renegade system is a pale susbstition, since the projection of motivations on actions has been a trouble of the system from day one (ie, the Paragon Collector Base justification).

If we were to take the Paragon Shepard as face value, Shepard is a moralizing hypocrite of the highest caliber with no past and no character development.


What makes Shepard more than that is you. Your participation. You fill in the blanks: why does Shepard feel this way? What makes Shepard tic? What does Shepard really feel that can't be captured in a few hundred lines of dialogue?


Shepard is a tabula rosa which you fill in.


And this goes across the Mass Effect universe, because the Mass Effect universe is big. If you weighed it only in terms of what is directly presented in the game, then Garrus may simply have lied about all those cool stories since we never see most of them, Tali may as well not have existed before appearing on the Citadel, and there was only one previous galactic civilization of note because the Protheans are the only we meet. Heck, I've never seen Joker using the toilet: have you? If it's not in the game, it must not factor in.

This is quite patently absurd. They aren't the focus of the game's content, but the game clearly guides us towards our own development of the issues. Even if we never are presented with it, surely we are expected to imagine that Garrus is actually a bad-ass cop when Shepard isn't around, rather than than a bombastic sycophant. We fill in with our mind's eye Thane's grief when his wife died. We imagine what the Reapers have done to others even in ME1 and ME2. We put together how the squadmates actually interacted in ME2, rather than take at face value that most of them never saw a word to eachother.



Mass Effect has always implicitly relied upon player participation. It's the nature of an RPG: you project yourself not only on Shepard, but the galaxy as a whole. You're the one who creates the vision of a galaxy of billions, when only thousands are shown. You're the one who imagines what Garrus was up to before his team ups with Shepard. When the Big Decisions come, you're the one who's left to think out what it could mean, and why you would or wouldn't make the call based on what you thought the implications were.

You're especially the one who imagines what goes on in each romance other than three conversations and a fade to black scene.



The game gives you a baseline, but don't even pretend you haven't been helping in making it up all along.

[Chaoswind]

Dean_the_Young

You are wrong.

Garrus and Tali are likely going to starve to death.

The only ships that can travel without discharging their cores are the reapers, so the fleet can't go very far, not to mention that the RBG beam of candy wreaks the Normandy, so is safe to assume that the WHOLE fleet you took to fight the reapers crashlanded somewhere (probably earth).

So nope none of the people that helped you are going back home, and that is only if they survive.

And let's not think on how the beam is supposed to work, because overcharging and then depleting all the mass effect cores in the galaxy sounds like a great way to sent everyone to the dark ages (because Reapers cores are oversized Mass effect cores)

[Dean_the_Young]

nicksmi56 wrote...

@Dean_the_Young Garrus and Tali are most likelly dead, unles mystery planet has foods they can eat.

Or the Normandy has foods they can eat and the means to make more. Or if there's a colony on the world which can provide. Or if help arrives from outside the system, either called in or from rescuers searching for the Normandy. Or-

We're not even sure the food isn't poisonous or something. Nobody knows where they are. Unless you assume everything on said planet is hunky dory, your squad is dead

Unless you assume things are fatal, your squad will live.

See how easy this is? We can do this all day. What you're exhibiting is known as the confirmation bias: you've made a decision of what you want to happen, and then are framing everything else in terms to support your pre-determined conclusion.

[Nykara]

200% agree with the OP. I care about all the characters that I have met on my ME3 Journey. Even Shepard said herself those are the people she was fighting for. On top of that I also care about my Shepard, my Sheps universe and my Sheps time period.

[Chaoswind]

Again just THINK for a second, the whole galaxy runs on reaper technology, nuking that technology sents EVERYONE to the 20 century at the very least.

So yeah the Yagh are now as advanced as everyone else, welcome to Mass Effect 4