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"The cycle was broken!" I don't CARE.


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#1076
j78

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pjotroos wrote...

YeGodz wrote...
So...if I'm to understand this correctly, the folks in this thread never cared about the thing has been the central plot of the entire series from like 20 minutes into the first game...spent 100-plus hours playing it anyway, bought a bunch of tie-ins about the same plot that they didn't care about...and are now shocked and disappointed that the ending of the last game in the series resolves...the main plot of the series.
Yeeeeaaahhhh......

Point me to anything that happens before the last minutes, that confirms the main point of the game is proving to faulty VI impersonating a child that his reasoning is obsolete by slowly limping to him after an elevator ride we couldn't take if not for the faulty VI? Because - as far as I can tell - we didn't even defeat the reapers in the end, we just happened to stop them by resolving entirely different problem that was only presented to us one minute prior.

But that's a separate point entirely. The reason why stopping the reapers the way it's done proved to be so unsatisfying - even downright depressing - comes down to something else entirely: That they will be stopped was never put in doubt. It was a foregone conclusion from the moment they were introduced as a threat. The only question was "how?", and boy if the answer to that one didn't get pulled out of the great cosmic behind!


Shame on you it’s not PC to call him a VI he’s a being of light he’s here to protect us from the evil machine devils oh wait didn’t he create them? Your 100% right pulled from cosmic behind.

#1077
DaeJi

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Bleachrude wrote...

Serious question:

Given that in ME1, Sovereign EXPLICITLY said that the relays and the citadel were a trap, why exactly are so many surprised that dealing with the reapers would ALSO mean the end of the relays AND the citadel?

The starchild sequence made no sense but the loss of the relays and citadel was foreshadowed since meeting sovereign back in ME1


Shepard disabled that trap in Mass Effect. As well, removing the Relays and Citadel at this point does nothing be doom billions to a very bleak life. The races won't suddenly stop using Mass Effect technology.

#1078
The Angry One

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I genuinely don't understand the mass relays = reaper trap mentality.
As others point out, no Reapers, no trap.

And here's the hilarious thing, in two endings the mass relays still blow up but the Reapers live.
So we have an ending where the Reapers and the mass relays die. An ending where the mass relays die and the Reapers live, but no ending where the mass relays live and the Reapers die.

HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? It's okay for the Reapers to live in some scenarios, but the mass relays must always be destroyed? For what, some stupid principle? Give me a break.

#1079
pistolols

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waaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh

#1080
Dendio1

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The Angry One wrote...

I genuinely don't understand the mass relays = reaper trap mentality.
As others point out, no Reapers, no trap.

And here's the hilarious thing, in two endings the mass relays still blow up but the Reapers live.
So we have an ending where the Reapers and the mass relays die. An ending where the mass relays die and the Reapers live, but no ending where the mass relays live and the Reapers die.

HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? It's okay for the Reapers to live in some scenarios, but the mass relays must always be destroyed? For what, some stupid principle? Give me a break.


Shepard woke up somewhere with rubble and wind ( presumable earth). The universe is not destroyed.
Also there was a metallic whine that could be interpreted as a reaper growl

Modifié par Dendio1, 01 avril 2012 - 08:07 .


#1081
j78

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If reapers are controlled by a signal why couldn’t we kill them with a huge EMP blast ?

Modifié par j78, 01 avril 2012 - 08:20 .


#1082
Velocithon

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The Angry One wrote...

I genuinely don't understand the mass relays = reaper trap mentality.
As others point out, no Reapers, no trap.

And here's the hilarious thing, in two endings the mass relays still blow up but the Reapers live.
So we have an ending where the Reapers and the mass relays die. An ending where the mass relays die and the Reapers live, but no ending where the mass relays live and the Reapers die.

HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? It's okay for the Reapers to live in some scenarios, but the mass relays must always be destroyed? For what, some stupid principle? Give me a break.


Never saw it that way. 

Dammit

#1083
Dendio1

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j78 wrote...

If reapers are controlled by a signal why couldn’t we kill them with a huge EMT blast ?

Citadel blue, red , green beam actually looked like a huge emt blast

#1084
Bleachrude

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Because the reapers controlled/built the relays.

If the Reapers are destroyed/go away, I honestly expected the reapers to in a fit of pique take their toys away...

When you kick the gods out, why be surprised they take their gifts with them as well?

I honestly can't see an ending with "relays alive but reapers gone"  making more sense than the reverse, since you know  the reapers BUILT the damn things...

Modifié par Bleachrude, 01 avril 2012 - 08:10 .


#1085
Harbinger of your Destiny

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Bleachrude wrote...

I tend to disagree with Dean in a lot of things but Dean is definitely one of the more passionate ME fans

Personally, I have problems with the starchild but NOT with the relays going away...Going back to ME1 (since it seems like unless you love ME1, you're not considered a true fan by some here), Sovereign's whole speech about "directing organic life in certain ways" always meant to me that any ending would involve the relays in some fashion and that they would not be in the picture post game...

Was I really the only one that wasn't surprised that the relays (and citadel) went away?

I want you to imagine what would happen right now if all roads on earth simply vanished. All freeways and highways are just gone. DO you realize that countries and bussiness would cease to function. And if that ceases to function then your life as you know it ceases to function.

#1086
Baronesa

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Bleachrude wrote...

Because the reapers controlled/built the relays.

If the Reapers are destroyed/go away, I honestly expected the reapers to in a fit of pique take their toys away...

When you kick the gods out, why be surprised they take their gifts with them as well?


So, that would also mean anything related to Element Zero... that IS reaper's tech... meaning all TFL drives... most of the weapons... Biotics... and magically delete all the knoweldge about this from scientist's minds

Modifié par Baronesa, 01 avril 2012 - 08:11 .


#1087
Velocithon

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Bleachrude wrote...

Because the reapers controlled/built the relays.

If the Reapers are destroyed/go away, I honestly expected the reapers to in a fit of pique take their toys away...

When you kick the gods out, why be surprised they take their gifts with them as well?


If I kill a knight, does he break his sword in half before he dies?

Nope. 

#1088
j78

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Dendio1 wrote...

j78 wrote...

If reapers are controlled by a signal why couldn’t we kill them with a huge EMT blast ?

Citadel blue, red , green beam actually looked like a huge emt blast


If we have that from of technology now why wouldn’t they have some thing a million time stronger 100+ years in the future ,without the crucible .

Modifié par j78, 01 avril 2012 - 08:14 .


#1089
Bleachrude

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Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

I tend to disagree with Dean in a lot of things but Dean is definitely one of the more passionate ME fans

Personally, I have problems with the starchild but NOT with the relays going away...Going back to ME1 (since it seems like unless you love ME1, you're not considered a true fan by some here), Sovereign's whole speech about "directing organic life in certain ways" always meant to me that any ending would involve the relays in some fashion and that they would not be in the picture post game...

Was I really the only one that wasn't surprised that the relays (and citadel) went away?

I want you to imagine what would happen right now if all roads on earth simply vanished. All freeways and highways are just gone. DO you realize that countries and bussiness would cease to function. And if that ceases to function then your life as you know it ceases to function.


And?

People seem to freak out that you no longer can go between Tuchanka, Citadel and Earth in a single day...

Yet forgetting that our own silk road (which was over some of the harshest terrain on mother earth) took 18 months to traverse.

Crossing the atlantic, by boat STILL takes weeks/months and it literally took months to go from Florida to California overland  before the advent of the railway system...

#1090
The Angry One

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Bleachrude wrote...

Because the reapers controlled/built the relays.

If the Reapers are destroyed/go away, I honestly expected the reapers to in a fit of pique take their toys away...

When you kick the gods out, why be surprised they take their gifts with them as well?

I honestly can't see an ending with "relays alive but reapers gone"  making more sense than the reverse, since you know  the reapers BUILT the damn things...



You mean like in Babylon 5 when the First Ones were all kicked out, they took the Jumpgates with them?
Oh wait no that would've been stupid.

#1091
Bourne Endeavor

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

nicksmi56 wrote...

@Dean_the_Young Garrus and Tali are most likelly dead, unles mystery planet has foods they can eat.

Or the Normandy has foods they can eat and the means to make more. Or if there's a colony on the world which can provide. Or if help arrives from outside the system, either called in or from rescuers searching for the Normandy. Or-

We're not even sure the food isn't poisonous or something. Nobody knows where they are. Unless you assume everything on said planet is hunky dory, your squad is dead

Unless you assume things are fatal, your squad will live.

See how easy this is? We can do this all day. What you're exhibiting is known as the confirmation bias: you've made a decision of what you want to happen, and then are framing everything else in terms to support your pre-determined conclusion.


No, he is using established lore for the cusp of his argument while you are inventing the narrative. Your theory suggests Joker managed to crash on the one planet within the Sol System that just so happened to have food capable of supporting all organic species. That alone is extremely contrived writing, made worse because there is no exposition to support why such a planet happens to exist that no one has ever heard of.

Regardless, we know the results of a Relay's destruction. This was depicted in the Arrival DLC and thus became canon. A writer must retain consistency in their story and cannot refute established fact, unless they provide proper exposition on the rationality behind doing; a natural progress or development previously unknown. For instance, say the intention from BioWare was the Crucible beam had precisely the necessary density and would hit the exact spot needed so the Relays would have a concentrated and less destruction blast radius. If this was the case, it is the responsible of the writer, not the reader, to offer exposition to explain why this differs so greatly from Arrival. In fact, my example is a contrivance, and ultimately poor writing but at the very least, there is an explanation to carry the narrative. Not following these rules will create plot holes, hence the abomination we are left with.

By using our imagination to fill in the blanks of the story itself. We are doing BioWare's job and last I recall, I did not receive a paycheck for that.

Your earlier reference to Dragon Age Origins is unfounded because we know the relevant conclusion to our companions stories. One possible ending is Alistair becomes King, Leliana mourned your passing and/or wrote poetry and etc. Morrigan is the only unknown however she explains this in the actual game, stating she will leave, never be seen again. Her ending was how proper ambiguity is written because the narrative informed us, in lieu of demanding we make assumptions. We are not necessarily required to know her motivations, provided the action itself is justifiable to her character, which is it. Anything thereafter can be left vague because it is not necessary for the story. Alistair's reign in term of success or failure can be left to the interpretation and preference of the reader, because it is not relevant to his story arc of accepting Kingship.

tl;dr: What you are proposing is a deluded fantasy; blind optimism if you would. You are certainly welcome to do so, in actuality all this amounts to is you inventing narrative and rationality that did not exist or is contradictory to established lore with no canonical foundation. In short, it's fanfiction, and little more.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 01 avril 2012 - 08:24 .


#1092
Bleachrude

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Baronesa wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Because the reapers controlled/built the relays.

If the Reapers are destroyed/go away, I honestly expected the reapers to in a fit of pique take their toys away...

When you kick the gods out, why be surprised they take their gifts with them as well?


So, that would also mean anything related to Element Zero... that IS reaper's tech... meaning all TFL drives... most of the weapons... Biotics... and magically delete all the knoweldge about this from scientist's minds


Eeezo != Reaper tech

Sigh..Why do people keep equating eezo with reaper tech? I'm pretty damn sure reapers incorporate some metals in their shells so you're arguing for the elimination of most metals from galactic society

#1093
spiriticon

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I care about destroying the reapers and breaking the cycle. It was my main motivation throughout all 3 games. I loved the character attachment stories while I played but they took second place to my mission which was the destruction of the reapers.

It's probably why I didn't go ape**** about the endings like everyone else did. When I chose destroy, it felt DAMN GOOD.

#1094
Orthodox Infidel

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Dendio1 wrote...

j78 wrote...

If reapers are controlled by a signal why couldn’t we kill them with a huge EMT blast ?

Citadel blue, red , green beam actually looked like a huge emt blast


EMP blasts don't actually look like anything.

#1095
Bleachrude

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The Angry One wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Because the reapers controlled/built the relays.

If the Reapers are destroyed/go away, I honestly expected the reapers to in a fit of pique take their toys away...

When you kick the gods out, why be surprised they take their gifts with them as well?

I honestly can't see an ending with "relays alive but reapers gone"  making more sense than the reverse, since you know  the reapers BUILT the damn things...



You mean like in Babylon 5 when the First Ones were all kicked out, they took the Jumpgates with them?
Oh wait no that would've been stupid.


???

The younger races can actually BUILD their own jumpgates...hell, a majr plot point is that the elder races don't even need the navigation beacon of hyperspace to navigate...

#1096
Hudathan

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Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

I tend to disagree with Dean in a lot of things but Dean is definitely one of the more passionate ME fans

Personally, I have problems with the starchild but NOT with the relays going away...Going back to ME1 (since it seems like unless you love ME1, you're not considered a true fan by some here), Sovereign's whole speech about "directing organic life in certain ways" always meant to me that any ending would involve the relays in some fashion and that they would not be in the picture post game...

Was I really the only one that wasn't surprised that the relays (and citadel) went away?

I want you to imagine what would happen right now if all roads on earth simply vanished. All freeways and highways are just gone. DO you realize that countries and bussiness would cease to function. And if that ceases to function then your life as you know it ceases to function.

It beats being horribly killed.

Which one would you choose, being able to travel, or being able to see tomorrow.

Are people really claiming that being technologically inferior is WORSE than genocide???

Modifié par Hudathan, 01 avril 2012 - 08:20 .


#1097
j78

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Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

j78 wrote...

If reapers are controlled by a signal why couldn’t we kill them with a huge EMT blast ?

Citadel blue, red , green beam actually looked like a huge emt blast


EMP blasts don't actually look like anything.

EMP whoopsImage IPB

#1098
Harbinger of your Destiny

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Bleachrude wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

I tend to disagree with Dean in a lot of things but Dean is definitely one of the more passionate ME fans

Personally, I have problems with the starchild but NOT with the relays going away...Going back to ME1 (since it seems like unless you love ME1, you're not considered a true fan by some here), Sovereign's whole speech about "directing organic life in certain ways" always meant to me that any ending would involve the relays in some fashion and that they would not be in the picture post game...

Was I really the only one that wasn't surprised that the relays (and citadel) went away?

I want you to imagine what would happen right now if all roads on earth simply vanished. All freeways and highways are just gone. DO you realize that countries and bussiness would cease to function. And if that ceases to function then your life as you know it ceases to function.


And?

People seem to freak out that you no longer can go between Tuchanka, Citadel and Earth in a single day...

Yet forgetting that our own silk road (which was over some of the harshest terrain on mother earth) took 18 months to traverse.

Crossing the atlantic, by boat STILL takes weeks/months and it literally took months to go from Florida to California overland  before the advent of the railway system...

You are forgetting that every single colony has been hit by the reapers. Those colonies need fresh supplies and people right now, not in a few years, right now. So no they are dead. The only planets that might have a chane to recover are the homeworlds.

#1099
Harbinger of your Destiny

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Bleachrude wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Because the reapers controlled/built the relays.

If the Reapers are destroyed/go away, I honestly expected the reapers to in a fit of pique take their toys away...

When you kick the gods out, why be surprised they take their gifts with them as well?


So, that would also mean anything related to Element Zero... that IS reaper's tech... meaning all TFL drives... most of the weapons... Biotics... and magically delete all the knoweldge about this from scientist's minds


Eeezo != Reaper tech

Sigh..Why do people keep equating eezo with reaper tech? I'm pretty damn sure reapers incorporate some metals in their shells so you're arguing for the elimination of most metals from galactic society

Because it is, we got the information from the protheans who got that info from the innusanon who got that from someone else which originated with the reapers.

#1100
The Angry One

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Bleachrude wrote...
???

The younger races can actually BUILD their own jumpgates...hell, a majr plot point is that the elder races don't even need the navigation beacon of hyperspace to navigate...


Irrelevant. It's still tech based on the original jumpgates, which the First Ones built. It's their tech.