1291 réponses à ce sujet

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Also Mass effect cannot be mass effect without the relays. That's like Star Trek without warp drive. You literally killed the universe by getting rid of the relays.

[The Angry One]

Bleachrude wrote...

Eeezo != Reaper tech

Sigh..Why do people keep equating eezo with reaper tech? I'm pretty damn sure reapers incorporate some metals in their shells so you're arguing for the elimination of most metals from galactic society

Mass effect fields are Reaper tech!
It's all based on reverse engineering the mass relays!

"Your civilisation is built around the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, you develop along the paths we desire."

[DaeJi]

Bleachrude wrote...

Eeezo != Reaper tech

Sigh..Why do people keep equating eezo with reaper tech? I'm pretty damn sure reapers incorporate some metals in their shells so you're arguing for the elimination of most metals from galactic society

All advanced technology is based around Mass Effect, which was left behind by the Reapers so that the races could find it and use it. Eezo itself is not Reaper tech, but the way it is used is a direct result of Reaper influence. As well, with the Mass Relays gone the different species are probably going to attempt to recreate them since they know it works and have knowledge of them.

All destroying the Relays do is heap more suffering on a devastated galaxy, suffering that will last tens of thousands of years.

[Bik00014]

The Angry One wrote...

It's come up in a few discussions now and then from various people that, no matter what the consequences of the ending, the cycle is in fact broken, Reapers are no longer a threat and future races will be free of bad Reaper influence, being culled etc. etc.

There's one issue I have with this: I DON'T CARE.

I got into Mass Effect because I became invested into the galaxy, it's various races and the galaxy.
I don't care whether the Yahg are now free to expand across the galaxy and eat puppies or whatever it is they do.
I don't care that in 10, 20, 30,000 years there'll be some form of galactic society again and I certainly don't care what some senile old man has to say to his naive grandson 10,000 years in the future on some backwater world I don't know and don't give a damn about!

I care about this galaxy, as is. I care about Garrus, about Liara, about Kaidan, about Tali building her home on Rannoch, about Wrex raising his new children. I care about Jack and her students, about Conrad, about Bailey. I care about the Turians, the Asari, the Quarians, the Geth, the Krogans.
Heck I even care about Vega and his N7 promotion.

That's what I care about, the characters I've gotten to know for 3 games. Not some nebulous, unseen and uneeded future. For that, you might as well let the Reapers win, because it amounts to exactly the same thing in the end. This isn't just about Shepard's unhappy ending. I want a happy ending, but even if it had to be a sacrifice, then I want that sacrifice to mean something other than some alien I don't care about not fearing the robotic squids from hell.

well said
/signed

[Fenrisfil]

It's one of the major flaws of this whole debacle. Bioware made a series that was heavily focused on characters and character development and then forgot about all that for the conclusion. Your last conversation being with a character introduced for the sake of that conversation is an extreme example of exactring the urine.

I would note also, despite it being beside the point, that technically Control or Synthesis may not break the cycle (we don't know if control can be maintained or if the hybrid people will start making synthetic life), it'll just slow it down and make it less predictable.

[Hydralysk]

Hudathan wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

I tend to disagree with Dean in a lot of things but Dean is definitely one of the more passionate ME fans

Personally, I have problems with the starchild but NOT with the relays going away...Going back to ME1 (since it seems like unless you love ME1, you're not considered a true fan by some here), Sovereign's whole speech about "directing organic life in certain ways" always meant to me that any ending would involve the relays in some fashion and that they would not be in the picture post game...

Was I really the only one that wasn't surprised that the relays (and citadel) went away?

I want you to imagine what would happen right now if all roads on earth simply vanished. All freeways and highways are just gone. DO you realize that countries and bussiness would cease to function. And if that ceases to function then your life as you know it ceases to function.

It beats being horribly killed.

Which one would you choose, being able to travel, or being able to see tomorrow.

Are people really claiming that being technologically inferior is WORSE than genocide???

Having my arms and legs sliced off and living the rest of my life as a cripple is arguably better than being killed outright. Are you telling me that because there is a worse alternative than the situation I'm currently in it means any amount of complaining is selfish? Just because there is a worse alternative doesn't mean every other option is suddenly a made into a good situation.

Modifié par Hydralysk, 01 avril 2012 - 08:28 .

[curufinwe03]

The mass relays should be destroyed, even when the reapers are destroyed because they invented them? That makes ... sense.
Following that logic we should immediatly start to erase all motorways in Germany and anywhere else.

[Chrishenanigans]

I really wish I could go through this whole thread, but at the very least I can affirm my support for the original post. And while I'm sure it's been mentioned before, I'd like to point out that this is exactly why I'm disappointed with this core story arc of "Take Back Earth."

On an intellectual level, our homeplanet and its billions matter. But on an emotional, character-driven level, I have absolutely no reason to care about Earth. It's the same idea behind Alderaan: the audience doesn't care about a whole planet and its people blowing up, they only care about the cast aboard the Millenium Falcon. It's not because we're monsters, it's because we are approaching the story from the focus of who and what we care most about.

Mass Effect 3 shoves this "EARTH EARTH EARTH" narrative on us and for me, at least, I just can't buy it when the only person I care about there is Anderson. Yet when the Citadel is under threat, the game makes zero effort to address the gravity of that situation even though a ton of my favorite characters, locations, and stories are on board that station. Are they alive? Are they dead? Oh, Mac Walters just tweeted to say that they're dead, fantastic. The Citadel's stories represented many, many hours of writing work, character art, and setting development, yet BioWare just kicks it all aside like it was never something they liked in the first place (and I know that can't be true).

[j78]

Hudathan wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

I tend to disagree with Dean in a lot of things but Dean is definitely one of the more passionate ME fans

Personally, I have problems with the starchild but NOT with the relays going away...Going back to ME1 (since it seems like unless you love ME1, you're not considered a true fan by some here), Sovereign's whole speech about "directing organic life in certain ways" always meant to me that any ending would involve the relays in some fashion and that they would not be in the picture post game...

Was I really the only one that wasn't surprised that the relays (and citadel) went away?

I want you to imagine what would happen right now if all roads on earth simply vanished. All freeways and highways are just gone. DO you realize that countries and bussiness would cease to function. And if that ceases to function then your life as you know it ceases to function.

It beats being horribly killed.

Which one would you choose, being able to travel, or being able to see tomorrow.

Are people really claiming that being technologically inferior is WORSE than genocide???

Yes If they want to retain their fan base . We can go on and on about different theories on how to kill the reapers and keep the relays, but at the end of the day if the relays are gone so is the cornerstone of this universe. I have no interest playing someone a thousand years in the future Or 29 years in the past.

[nicksmi56]

@Dean_the_Young Then tell me exactly what happened. I GUARANTEE I could identify five or more assumptions that you have made. Nobody knows what happened because the game doesn't tell us. DAO at least gave us subtle hints. You're saying "Well mayybee so and so happened." That's not what this game was supposed to do. It was meant to provide an ending to the series, not a guessing game. To wrap this up, since my torturously busy day isn't over, I will present two quotes, both from friends of mine, both ME fans.
"I'm pretty sure people would hate Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows if when Harry got to Hogwarts, you turned the page and it said 'Figure it out yourself.'"
"This is bull. I didn't pay 80 bucks to imagine the ending. I could do that for free."
See my problem yet?

[Arik7]

The Angry One wrote...

It's come up in a few discussions now and then from various people that, no matter what the consequences of the ending, the cycle is in fact broken, Reapers are no longer a threat and future races will be free of bad Reaper influence, being culled etc. etc.

There's one issue I have with this: I DON'T CARE.

I got into Mass Effect because I became invested into the galaxy, it's various races and the galaxy.
I don't care whether the Yahg are now free to expand across the galaxy and eat puppies or whatever it is they do.
I don't care that in 10, 20, 30,000 years there'll be some form of galactic society again and I certainly don't care what some senile old man has to say to his naive grandson 10,000 years in the future on some backwater world I don't know and don't give a damn about!

I care about this galaxy, as is. I care about Garrus, about Liara, about Kaidan, about Tali building her home on Rannoch, about Wrex raising his new children. I care about Jack and her students, about Conrad, about Bailey. I care about the Turians, the Asari, the Quarians, the Geth, the Krogans.
Heck I even care about Vega and his N7 promotion.

That's what I care about, the characters I've gotten to know for 3 games. Not some nebulous, unseen and uneeded future. For that, you might as well let the Reapers win, because it amounts to exactly the same thing in the end. This isn't just about Shepard's unhappy ending. I want a happy ending, but even if it had to be a sacrifice, then I want that sacrifice to mean something other than some alien I don't care about not fearing the robotic squids from hell.

THIS 100%.

[Johcande XX]

YeGodz wrote...

So...if I'm to understand this correctly, the folks in this thread never cared about the thing has been the central plot of the entire series from like 20 minutes into the first game...spent 100-plus hours playing it anyway, bought a bunch of tie-ins about the same plot that they didn't care about...and are now shocked and disappointed that the ending of the last game in the series resolves...the main plot of the series.

Yeeeeaaahhhh......

I think that the theme/goal of the series is the fight against desitny, to overcome fate.  You use ideas like uniting diverse people against a single threat to accomplish said goal.

Organic vs. robot  is the basis of the first conflict, but it is not the theme of the series.  In fact that particular focus is all but negated two-thirds into ME2.

The end of ME3, goes back to the first game, picks up on that conflict and suggests that that was the theme of the whole series, which is BS.  However the actual theme of fighting fate or destiny IS kinda resolved if you pick destroy; but most players feel that losing everything in the fight against fate means that even if you win, you still kinda lost.  And that circles back to the OP.

Modifié par Johcande XX, 01 avril 2012 - 08:33 .

[Bleachrude]

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Also Mass effect cannot be mass effect without the relays. That's like Star Trek without warp drive. You literally killed the universe by getting rid of the relays.

Um what?

Seriously, Mass Effect refers to what happens when current is passed through eezo.

Eezo is an element of the universe and nothing in the game implies that the reapers actually created eezo since we actually know how eezo is created...


Again, for those out there... Mass Effect DOES NOT REFER TO THE RELAYS..It refers to Eezo which is used by both the relays and standard FTL drives...

(As an aside, looked through the galaxy map and I think Palaven is 5 years away from Earth by standard FTL..

[Xenbus]

Chrishenanigans wrote...

I really wish I could go through this whole thread, but at the very least I can affirm my support for the original post. And while I'm sure it's been mentioned before, I'd like to point out that this is exactly why I'm disappointed with this core story arc of "Take Back Earth."

On an intellectual level, our homeplanet and its billions matter. But on an emotional, character-driven level, I have absolutely no reason to care about Earth. It's the same idea behind Alderaan: the audience doesn't care about a whole planet and its people blowing up, they only care about the cast aboard the Millenium Falcon. It's not because we're monsters, it's because we are approaching the story from the focus of who and what we care most about.

Mass Effect 3 shoves this "EARTH EARTH EARTH" narrative on us and for me, at least, I just can't buy it when the only person I care about there is Anderson. Yet when the Citadel is under threat, the game makes zero effort to address the gravity of that situation even though a ton of my favorite characters, locations, and stories are on board that station. Are they alive? Are they dead? Oh, Mac Walters just tweeted to say that they're dead, fantastic. The Citadel's stories represented many, many hours of writing work, character art, and setting development, yet BioWare just kicks it all aside like it was never something they liked in the first place (and I know that can't be true).

That is why the ending is "broken" its a fundamental shift from the way the rest of the series was framed as a narraritive.

That big of a paradigm shift will always break a narrative, because it is so jarring. This is the kind of thing you cover in creative writing 101, for them to break the story so badly makes me sad.

[Hudathan]

Hydralysk wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

I tend to disagree with Dean in a lot of things but Dean is definitely one of the more passionate ME fans

Personally, I have problems with the starchild but NOT with the relays going away...Going back to ME1 (since it seems like unless you love ME1, you're not considered a true fan by some here), Sovereign's whole speech about "directing organic life in certain ways" always meant to me that any ending would involve the relays in some fashion and that they would not be in the picture post game...

Was I really the only one that wasn't surprised that the relays (and citadel) went away?

I want you to imagine what would happen right now if all roads on earth simply vanished. All freeways and highways are just gone. DO you realize that countries and bussiness would cease to function. And if that ceases to function then your life as you know it ceases to function.

It beats being horribly killed.

Which one would you choose, being able to travel, or being able to see tomorrow.

Are people really claiming that being technologically inferior is WORSE than genocide???

Having my arms and legs sliced off and living the rest of my life as a cripple is arguably better than being killed outright. Are you telling me that because there is a worse alternative than the situation I'm currently in it means any amount of complaining is selfish? Just because there is a worse alternative doesn't mean every other option is suddenly a made into a good situation.

I guess that answers my question.

[Xenbus]

Bleachrude wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Also Mass effect cannot be mass effect without the relays. That's like Star Trek without warp drive. You literally killed the universe by getting rid of the relays.

Um what?

Seriously, Mass Effect refers to what happens when current is passed through eezo.

Eezo is an element of the universe and nothing in the game implies that the reapers actually created eezo since we actually know how eezo is created...


Again, for those out there... Mass Effect DOES NOT REFER TO THE RELAYS..It refers to Eezo which is used by both the relays and standard FTL drives...

(As an aside, looked through the galaxy map and I think Palaven is 5 years away from Earth by standard FTL..

But you can't just fly straight there without slowing or stopping to discharge drive cores, and the problem is when you get out of clusters there is simply too much open space to do any of this. Thus it is impossible, to navigate and why the mass relays are used to connect star clusters.

Without them they really can't get home, based on the series lore.

[Rafe34]

I'd just like to say. If you come in here ASSUMING IT is actual fact, and on that basis alone you think the endings are just fine, please say that's why you think they're okay. It's very confusing otherwise.

[nitefyre410]

Bleachrude wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Also Mass effect cannot be mass effect without the relays. That's like Star Trek without warp drive. You literally killed the universe by getting rid of the relays.

Um what?

Seriously, Mass Effect refers to what happens when current is passed through eezo.

Eezo is an element of the universe and nothing in the game implies that the reapers actually created eezo since we actually know how eezo is created...


Again, for those out there... Mass Effect DOES NOT REFER TO THE RELAYS..It refers to Eezo which is used by both the relays and standard FTL drives...

(As an aside, looked through the galaxy map and I think Palaven is 5 years away from Earth by standard FTL..

 


You missing the point - the Mass relays are as  Iconic as the Force to Star Wars. They  biggest example of the Mass Effect itself and how it works with in   universe.    When people think  Mass Effect the relay network is the one of the firs things and of most Iconic images of the series. Why do you think in every game, and trailer they spend  time  making the screnes were you hit the  relay so dramatic. 

[The Angry One]

Bleachrude wrote...

Again, for those out there... Mass Effect DOES NOT REFER TO THE RELAYS..It refers to Eezo which is used by both the relays and standard FTL drives...

Which is based on the mass relays. Pay attention.

(As an aside, looked through the galaxy map and I think Palaven is 5 years away from Earth by standard FTL..

Assuming they have infinite fuel and no need to discharge drive cores.

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Bleachrude wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Also Mass effect cannot be mass effect without the relays. That's like Star Trek without warp drive. You literally killed the universe by getting rid of the relays.

Um what?

Seriously, Mass Effect refers to what happens when current is passed through eezo.

Eezo is an element of the universe and nothing in the game implies that the reapers actually created eezo since we actually know how eezo is created...


Again, for those out there... Mass Effect DOES NOT REFER TO THE RELAYS..It refers to Eezo which is used by both the relays and standard FTL drives...

(As an aside, looked through the galaxy map and I think Palaven is 5 years away from Earth by standard FTL..

Hey remember the stargazer scene, remember what the developers said how it is 10,000 years in the future and no one has fixed the whole no more space travel mess? The glaxay is literally plunged in a dark age without the relays.

[Mallissin]

Grimez7 wrote...

Exactly. Screw the Yahg.

[zarnk567]

Mallissin wrote...

Grimez7 wrote...

Exactly. Screw the Yahg.

OMG!!! So much win. 

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

How do we know the crucible wasn't a reaper trap to cut off supply lines to the galaxy and that this happens every cycle and the reapers just rebuild the relays when they're done with the harvest.

Modifié par GME_ThorianCreeper, 01 avril 2012 - 08:45 .

[KrunkMasterB]

Also don't forget that there are probably millions of people of all races now stranded around Earth. None of the fleets that came can go home now, and there is no way the Earth can supports all of them, mainly the Turians, who can't eat any of our food. So, they're all dead. And it's been established that destroying Mass Relays destroys the system it's in. Destroying the relays essentially cripples the galaxy- I guess this is the last Mass Effect game ever?

[Silvair]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

How do we know the crucible wasn't a reaper trap to cut off supply lines to the galaxy and that this happens every cycle and the reapers just rebuild the relays when they're done with the harvest.

That's....an interesting possibility.