1291 réponses à ce sujet

[DaeJi]

Hudathan wrote...
It's still the same setting with similar storytelling that simply focuses on character arcs instead. And just because an opinion is popular doesn't make it  the 'right' one.

Deep Space Nine had very different storytelling from, say, The Next Generation. And that the endings are poor is not an opinion. You can like them all you want, but from a storytelling prespective they are bad, like a lumpy basketball.

[Quietness]

durasteel wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

... Bioware has done something that not many creators have been willing to do, that doesn't make it objectively right or wrong.

Yeah, there is a phrase (and a trope) for what BioWare did: Torch the Franchise and Run.

I thought that to, but if they truely did that, they went a step beyond and decided to go:

Torch the Franchise, Profit as much as possible from DLC, than Run.

[alx119]

durasteel wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

... Bioware has done something that not many creators have been willing to do, that doesn't make it objectively right or wrong.

Yeah, there is a phrase (and a trope) for what BioWare did: Torch the Franchise and Run.

This would explain many things... 

[Montana]

/agreed

[MetalCargo999]

durasteel wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

... Bioware has done something that not many creators have been willing to do, that doesn't make it objectively right or wrong.

Yeah, there is a phrase (and a trope) for what BioWare did: Torch the Franchise and Run.

Funny.  I was about to say the same thing to Hudathan.  The weirdest part is that I don't think Bioware torched it on purpose.  All I know for sure is that Casey really didn't want to drag out Shepard's character.  Unfortunately, he and the team chose a poor way of taking care of that problem, torching the entire series along with Shepard. 

[durasteel]

Hudathan wrote...

]Maybe they don't have any desires or material left to do any more stories within the current setting. Would you rather they exercised their own creative ability and try to tell the most interesting story they can come up with, or keep writing about the same stuff just because the fanbase wants more.

Honestly, if they are out of ideas for the Mass Effect franchise maybe they could hand it off to another team, like BioWare Montreal. "Their own creative ability" has created an ending that is so fornicating horrible that it didn't just stop me from re-playing the game with my other saves, didn't just put on-hold indefinitely my plan to play through all three games back-to-back, it has actually sucked away any real interest I have in playing any computer game at the moment.

If I could go back in time and stop myself from finishig the game and seeing the ending that "their own creative ability" spawned, I would without hesitation. Right now the main purpose of the BSN isn't feedback, or communication. This forum has become an online support group for those of us who are trying to recover from that piece of crap ending.

Modifié par durasteel, 01 avril 2012 - 09:23 .

[Baronesa]

Bleachrude wrote...

Um, nope...Mass relays and FTL are based on EEZO. Eezo exists independent of the relays (otherwise you would never have biotics or are you saying all of the biotics are now dead?). The mass relays and FTL can NOT exist without eezo so no, eezo is not based on the mass relay.

Again, please go to ME1 opening screen (you know what, I'll just quote it here).

In the year 2148, explorers on Mars discovered the remains of an ancient spacefaring civilization. 
In the decades that followed, these mysterious artifacts revealed startling new technologies, enabling travel to the furthest stars. 
The basis for this incredible technology was a force that controlled the very fabric of space and time.
They called it the greatest discovery in human history.
The civilizations of the galaxy call it...
MASS EFFECT

[/b]

I will repost this, since it apparently got lost in the miriad of responses.


That ancient civilization... the Protheans. Responsible of the creation of the Citadel and Mass Relays and... oh wait... on that same game we discover that all the technology based on Mass Effect fields was not Prothean's creation but was handed down from cycle to cycle... ultimately coming from the Reapers.

All that tech discovered on Mars was all Reaper's tech via Protheans.

[MetalCargo999]

durasteel wrote...

Hudathan wrote...

]Maybe they don't have any desires or material left to do any more stories within the current setting. Would you rather they exercised their own creative ability and try to tell the most interesting story they can come up with, or keep writing about the same stuff just because the fanbase wants more.

Honestly, if they are out of ideas for the Mass Effect franchise maybe they could hand it off to another team, like BioWare Montreal. "Their own creative ability" has created an ending that is so fornicating horrible that it didn't just stop me from re-playing the game with my other saves, didn't just put on-hold indefinitely my plan to play through all three games back-to-back, it has actually sucked away any real interest I have in playing any computer game at the moment.

If I could go back in time and stop myself from finishig the game and seeing the ending that "their own creative ability" spawned, I would without hesitation. Right now the main purpose of the BSN isn't feedback, or communication. This forum has become an online support group for those of us who are trying to recover from that piece of crap ending.

Also consider the the initial vision for the series.  Mass Effect was intended to be a self contained trilogy from the get-go.  Look up alot of the older vids.  This looks like a cliffhanger ending meant to bridge into a new game.  They weren't expecting this from the beginning when they set out to do this, but Mass Effect became bigger than I think anyone was really expecting.  Instead of writing a good story with a solid ending and leaving it at that (like the original Star Wars trilogy which has become a cultural phenomenon), they seem to be trying to milk the series (think Star Wars prequels, only the ending to ME 3 is the beginning of the downwards spiral since the team seem to have made up their minds during this trilogy that they're gonna milk it).  If you have a good story, don't ruin it to extend it.  The TV show Heroes?  Same thing.

That being said, it's possible that they will only continue the story in prequel form like they also originally intended, as evidenced by DLC that will only take place before the ending of this game (although that might change now because of the protests). 

[Mahrac]

@OP do you have a fanclub, and do I get a t-shirt for joining?

[jimbo32]

Well said TAO. I agree completely.

[KrunkMasterB]

I honestly hope that they change the relays getting destroyed. The ME universe has a huge amount of potential for being fleshed out, and ending Shepard's story shouldn't mean the Universe's story ends as well

[Orthodox Infidel]

BobbyTheI wrote...

So how are we talking about months or years of travel time, when a ship can't last for more than 50 hours of constant operation without a planet to discharge into?

I mostly agree that the ending is terrible, but I do want to take issue with this "discharge" business.

Ashely's statements in ME1 make trips of 12 light years a day (not a 24 hour period) at standard FTL sound as common in the Mass Effect universe as domestic airline travel is in the modern United States. There are at least 64 stars within 15 light years of our sun, and most of them probably have something orbiting them to discharge off of. There's no reason to believe our little corner of the galaxy is abnormally blessed with star systems, so there's no reason to believe that a ship from here to Palaven is going to have huge problems with discharging static built up on their drive cores.

[Nathan_41]

pistolols wrote...

lol @ i don't CARE about the series' ultimate goal!

i wanted to see shepard and his/her LI settle down and have a family WAHHHHHHHHH

i wanted to know what was happening with all the slave traders on illium and drug trafficing gangs on Omega WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

How appropriate. You're acting like a child. 

[sargon1986]

Bleachrude wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Also Mass effect cannot be mass effect without the relays. That's like Star Trek without warp drive. You literally killed the universe by getting rid of the relays.

Um what?

Seriously, Mass Effect refers to what happens when current is passed through eezo.

Eezo is an element of the universe and nothing in the game implies that the reapers actually created eezo since we actually know how eezo is created...


Again, for those out there... Mass Effect DOES NOT REFER TO THE RELAYS..It refers to Eezo which is used by both the relays and standard FTL drives...

(As an aside, looked through the galaxy map and I think Palaven is 5 years away from Earth by standard FTL..

Oh really? Element zero has not been mentioned ONCE in ME3. Everything circles around the relays and the Citadel in Mass Effect. If those 2 are gone, the ME universe is no more. The idea that "relays have to go because Reapers made them" is stupid...

Palaven 5 light years away? Nope... the star nearest to Earth is 40 light years away. FTL's speed is ~12 light years per day. You would need YEARS to get to Palaven with FTL. Have fun without the relays.

Modifié par sargon1986, 01 avril 2012 - 11:07 .

[LTKerr]

Well, I was bored so I checked out too how many light years would be between Earth and Palaven or Tuchanka or Sur'Kesh (they are close to each other). 20.000 light years. As @Bleachruse said, it would take about 4'5-5 years in FTL speed (12 light years per day). But Tali would need 16 years.. ouch, poor girl.

[Baronesa]

LTKerr wrote...

Well, I was bored so I checked out too how many light years would be between Earth and Palaven or Tuchanka or Sur'Kesh (they are close to each other). 20.000 light years. As @Bleachruse said, it would take about 4'5-5 years in FTL speed (12 light years per day). But Tali would need 16 years.. ouch, poor girl.

I'll double those times or at least increase them 50%, because that is with a continous travel, yet they will have to stop for repairs, fuel etc. Probably would have to build a few fuel stations/refineries or carry portable ones, but that would increase the time, since they would have to wait for them to produce enough fuel to continue the journey.

Modifié par Baronesa, 01 avril 2012 - 11:23 .

[The Night Mammoth]

YeGodz wrote...

So...if I'm to understand this correctly, the folks in this thread never cared about the thing has been the central plot of the entire series from like 20 minutes into the first game...spent 100-plus hours playing it anyway, bought a bunch of tie-ins about the same plot that they didn't care about...and are now shocked and disappointed that the ending of the last game in the series resolves...the main plot of the series.

Yeeeeaaahhhh......

You don't understand correctly.

Everyone DOES care about the central plot, ie. stopping the Reapers. 

It's just that they (or we, since I agree with Angry completely) don't care how that affects some ultimately hypothetical species or group of people thousands of years in the future, living in a completely different society that we will never meet or experience. 

We care about how it affects the present, how it affects Shepard, his LI, his friends, his allies, the species of the galaxy that exist today. 

That part was completely neglected at the end. To use the newly established buzz word; you don't create a character centric and driven narritive and then take the focus away from these characters, and stop the protagonist from being the force which drives the plot forward, giving that responsibility to a previously uknown and utterly detatched force. 

[LTKerr]

Baronesa wrote...

LTKerr wrote...

Well, I was bored so I checked out too how many light years would be between Earth and Palaven or Tuchanka or Sur'Kesh (they are close to each other). 20.000 light years. As @Bleachruse said, it would take about 4'5-5 years in FTL speed (12 light years per day). But Tali would need 16 years.. ouch, poor girl.

I'll double those times or at least increase them 50%, because that is with a continous travel, yet they will have to stop for repairs, fuel etc. Probably would have to build a few fuel stations/refineries or carry portable ones, but that would increase the time, since they would have to wait for them to produce enough fuel to continue the journey.

Fuel for what? There's no friction in space. Once you are at whatever speed, you keep it until you want to decelerate. You need fuel for only those two actions: accelerate and decelerate. Maybe some more for life support but solar panels will do (or something like that). Regardless, I still think Bioware should give us an option where the relays aren't destroyed.

Modifié par LTKerr, 01 avril 2012 - 11:31 .

[The Night Mammoth]

LTKerr wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

LTKerr wrote...

Well, I was bored so I checked out too how many light years would be between Earth and Palaven or Tuchanka or Sur'Kesh (they are close to each other). 20.000 light years. As @Bleachruse said, it would take about 4'5-5 years in FTL speed (12 light years per day). But Tali would need 16 years.. ouch, poor girl.

I'll double those times or at least increase them 50%, because that is with a continous travel, yet they will have to stop for repairs, fuel etc. Probably would have to build a few fuel stations/refineries or carry portable ones, but that would increase the time, since they would have to wait for them to produce enough fuel to continue the journey.

Fuel for what? There's no friction in space. Once you are at whatever speed, you keep it until you want to decelerate. You need fuel for only those two actions: acelerate and decelerate. Maybe some more for life support but solar panels will do (or something like that). Regardless, I still think Bioware should give us an option where the relays aren't destroyed.

Maintaining FTL requires fuel. 

Or have you somehow managed to go the whole game without it? 

[LTKerr]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Maintaining FTL requires fuel. 

Or have you somehow managed to go the whole game without it? 

I'm pretty sure it was for gameplay reasons, not for logical/scientific ones.

[Orthodox Infidel]

LTKerr wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

LTKerr wrote...

Well, I was bored so I checked out too how many light years would be between Earth and Palaven or Tuchanka or Sur'Kesh (they are close to each other). 20.000 light years. As @Bleachruse said, it would take about 4'5-5 years in FTL speed (12 light years per day). But Tali would need 16 years.. ouch, poor girl.

I'll double those times or at least increase them 50%, because that is with a continous travel, yet they will have to stop for repairs, fuel etc. Probably would have to build a few fuel stations/refineries or carry portable ones, but that would increase the time, since they would have to wait for them to produce enough fuel to continue the journey.

Fuel for what? There's no friction in space. Once you are at whatever speed, you keep it until you want to decelerate. You need fuel for only those two actions: accelerate and decelerate. Maybe some more for life support but solar panels will do (or something like that). Regardless, I still think Bioware should give us an option where the relays aren't destroyed.

You are correct in that, in reality, fuel would not be a problem. In fact, I think the first Codex description of FTL indicates that your reasoning would be correct, I think (I'd need to go read it again). However, Bioware gave us game mechanics in ME2 and ME3 where we clearly can run out of gas flying at FTL speeds. So... yeah. Hooray for gameplay and story segregation. Or retcons. Or something.

LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

[Baronesa]

LTKerr wrote...
Fuel for what? There's no friction in space. Once you are at whatever
speed, you keep it until you want to decelerate. You need fuel for only
those two actions: accelerate and decelerate.

That would work perfectly... at subluminic speed... for for you to move FASTER THAN LIGHT... well... you need to maintain the Mass Effect field, and that consumes "fuel". Without it, indeed you can move at subluminic speeds but then the journey would take thousands of years.

[Toalhinha]

Shepard is Neo, and we all know that Matrix had a great ending.

oh no, wait...

[TheMerchantMan]

LTKerr wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Maintaining FTL requires fuel. 

Or have you somehow managed to go the whole game without it? 

I'm pretty sure it was for gameplay reasons, not for logical/scientific ones.

Aye and so were the thermal clips, yet the game quite explictly treats thermal clips with scientific grounding. Poor rational grounding sure, but in the context of the universe it makes sense.

The need for refuelling and static discharge are treated as hard requirements of FTL travel, they can't be handwaved away. They are necessary to keep FTL travel.

Also addressing the notion that FTL travel to Pavalen/Sur'Kesh/Tuchunka should be 4-5 years and 16 to Rannoch, I assume that is based on a straight line, unfortunately space travel does not work on straight lines.

I predict all things taken from the game, that a single trip from Earth to Pavalen would take nothing less than 8 years assuming a constant source of fuel. Thessia 20. Rannoch probably isn't reachable in less than 50.

[The Night Mammoth]

LTKerr wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Maintaining FTL requires fuel. 

Or have you somehow managed to go the whole game without it? 

I'm pretty sure it was for gameplay reasons, not for logical/scientific ones.

Nah. 

Besides, there are numerous mining operations around the galaxy that you encounter which mine for starship fuel. Helium-3, mainly, like that planet in a system in the Krogan DMZ, which was used to provide for the fleet during the rebellions.