457 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaosgirl]

Sidney wrote...

Kaosgirl wrote...
DA:O somewhat emulates the style of PnP where the campaign is set and characters who "don't fit" the campaign are ruled out before the campaign starts.  But that's not the only form of PnP campaign out there;  most of the ones I've played in were more free-form.  The campaign adapted to the players, and if they wanted to play psychopathic marauding reavers then that's where the game went.  Oblivion, while not being perfect, comes closer to emulating that variety of campaign style.

Your imagination doesn't cost money either. Again, real world,  there are a set of developers who sit down with requirements that say if X then Y in this game. There are only so many X and Y's they can code before Bioware goes into the corporate toes up position. In game terms, that means you get limits and those limits exclude the margins.

Er... what's your point, that Bethesda couldn't do what it actually did?

[Kaosgirl]

LunSei Sleidee wrote...

immateriaux wrote...

LunSei Sleidee wrote...

Oblivion is all about your own story-making: ... Dragon Age, on the other hand, is the opposite. ... Dragon Age is a true rpg, while Oblivion maybe is not.

I was sort of agreeing with you except, to me, I can't see how you can say DA is a "true rpg" and yet also point out how it is opposite to Oblivion, which was about "story making". It is exactly that fact that makes Oblivion the better rpg to me. I'm strictly following the steps of a story in DA, I get very little freedom. In the Bethesda games I get to really role play a character and make my own pace and story. In some ways I experience DA more like Half life 2 (ignoring graphical style obviously but in terms of game play structure: story episode - fight episode - story episode etc) than Oblivion.

Well, Dragon Age makes you PLAY a ROLE (a Grey Warden; in my case specifically a human female mage Grey Warden) that's why I called it a "true rpg". Even the game title hits at that, by calling it Origins.
But Oblivion on the other hand does not really make you play a role -it merely hints so.

Meh.
Oblivion gives me more freedom to choose my own role.  DA hands me a role, and says "play this guy."  
This makes Oblivion more like my weekly P&P sessions, while DA is more like going to a convention game with pre-made characters and a tightly-scripted plot.  I wouldn't call either of them less of a "true RPG," though.

[Kaosgirl]

BelgarathMTH wrote...
And everything you mention, especially the botched, queen-of-all-design-screwups level scaling, totally destroyed my experience of Oblivion. 

As I've mentioned before, it ruined it for me when I saw my love of Alchemy artificially giving me access to levels. And I knew I couldn't take any of those levels, because the whole gaming world would then be too strong for poor little peace loving chemist me to have any hope of defending myself against! So I qualified for about 5th or 6th level during the Imperial City  segment of the game, right out of the sewers, and I knew that was all useless.

And why should anybody, ever, take any level beyond first in Oblivion anyway? Phony, phony, phony! The worst game-writing ever! I HATE Oblivion for what it promised me versus what it gave me! I've never been so disillusioned, had my immersion shattered, felt so suckered and cheated in all my life as a gamer!

Yes, the levelling issues (both how it was done and how the world scaled to it) bothered many.  That's why there was a plethora of mods that offered various different "fixes" for both.

That's why I sort of take it as granted that most fans of Oblivion are speaking of some modded version of it; much like I take it as granted that most fans of second-edition D&D are speaking of a version rife with house-rules and third-party options.

[jinix the younger]

I have played Oblivion - well modded it - since it was released - it's the most excellent game for it's modding abilities.

DAo doesn't have the environment for the same kind of modding so it's not quite my cup of tea - however as far as PLAYING the games I prefer Dragon Age: Origins because of the tactics angle. The old Baldurs Gate that I enjoyed so much is still there.

Compariing Dragon Age to Oblivion are like comparing pizza to fried chicken, they both taste good but are not the same.

Oblivion has nothing to do with DnD which Dragon Age is trying to preserve for the DnD gamers.

[MassEffect762]

Overall, yes.

[GhostMatter]

I haven't played Oblivion but Morrowind is barely comparable in addictiveness to Dragon Age. So... slow...

[Dark83]

Kaosgirl wrote...

Er... what's your point, that Bethesda couldn't do what it actually did?

If we go with the PnP metaphor, the GM may be adapting to their players, but in their campaign all the NPCs say "Times are tough..." and all the innkeepers are called Bill.

Edit: Strictly speaking, Oblivion lets you "RP" as much as you want, but the world barely responds to you. Dialog (and thus interaction with the world) is pretty much inconsequential.

TES lets you RP - in your imagination. You can pretend to be whatever and whoever you want, because the world doesn't really care unless you're killing somebody or triggering the "It's a crime!" response.

In the Bioware style games, you're given a role, and the world responds to that role - you don't have the freedom to be a murderous psychopath because the role isn't that - but the world responds.

When I want to explore and shoot stuff, I do Morrowind or FO3. When I want to interact with a world, I do Bioware. Actually, all this talk makes me want to buckle down and finish BG2.

Modifié par Dark83, 06 décembre 2009 - 02:48 .

[Tianwyn]

Why are people still trying to compare Apples to Tomatoes?

Because we can.



Sadly, it makes more sense than the abstract final papers I've been writing all day.

[Uilleand]

kelsjet wrote...

Oblivion is like a MMO... without everyone else.

The 'open world' only lets you do one thing, grind. I actually feel bad for Oblivion junkies. They spend all day grinding their character in a totally empty world. And to what end? So they can show off to some random NPC who is too stupid to walk around without getting stuck behind some pillar.

Ahhh...thank you for that! I was never able to quantify why Oblivion failed so hard for me. It was so pretty, and I...I *wanted* to like it, but in the end I just wanted everyone else in the world to die in a fire. So I let them.

So yes...Dragon Age = Alistair, Shale, Sten, Zevron, Wynne, puppy > Oblivion

[Arvay5]

ALL HAIL BioWare!! DA has much better story and gameplay than oblivion.

[Kaosgirl]

Dark83 wrote...

Kaosgirl wrote...

Er... what's your point, that Bethesda couldn't do what it actually did?

If we go with the PnP metaphor, the GM may be adapting to their players, but in their campaign all the NPCs say "Times are tough..." and all the innkeepers are called Bill.

Edit: Strictly speaking, Oblivion lets you "RP" as much as you want, but the world barely responds to you. Dialog (and thus interaction with the world) is pretty much inconsequential.

TES lets you RP - in your imagination. You can pretend to be whatever and whoever you want, because the world doesn't really care unless you're killing somebody or triggering the "It's a crime!" response.

In the Bioware style games, you're given a role, and the world responds to that role - you don't have the freedom to be a murderous psychopath because the role isn't that - but the world responds.

When I want to explore and shoot stuff, I do Morrowind or FO3. When I want to interact with a world, I do Bioware. Actually, all this talk makes me want to buckle down and finish BG2.

That's an interesting way of putting it - the world "responds" as long as you stick to your assigned role.  But it's really not that different from the world responding to a prepared script rather than my interactions with the world.


*That* much, I concede is a limitation of the medium, though.  Either the world mostly ignores your interactions, or it responds but only to a select subset of possibilities.

[Oliver Sudden]

Bethesda pretty much lost me when potion making and spells could no longer fail. Dropping one of the things they did right just to please the crowd made me sad.

[Default137]

eisberg77 wrote...

Why are people still trying to compare Apples to Tomatoes?

But yeah, back on topic, its not really a universal truth that one is better then the other, I liked DA:O, but I also like Oblvion, one has given me years of nonstop entertainment, the other only lasted about a month, but they are both good in their own way, and trying to say one is better then the other is like saying cats are better then dogs, its up to the person, what if your allergic to cats for example?

Modifié par Default137, 06 décembre 2009 - 07:52 .

[CloudOfShadows]

Personally, I wouldn't say that Oblivion has the higher replayability - since honestly you can just play on and on and on. It always gives you more of the same. That's what Oblivion is. Doesn't mean you get less playtime out of it, it's just that I didn't really see a reason to play Oblivion twice.

Origins, on the other hand, has an immense replayability imho because there's so many relevant choices for the story that you can make. Imho, Origins is one of the best RPGs out there because of that.

BG2 didn't have the same allowance on choices, if memory serves me right, maybe due to the nature of the Forgotten Realms system with good and evil. There were still choices there, but regarding the good/evil choices, I'll have to give the crown to Arcanum.

[Shadowcrazy4]

ITT: TROLLS TROLLING TROLLS



because i SERIOUSLY see no point in comparing 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RPGS with the only reasoning behind it being "hurrr they both in medevil tiemz durrr"



i love both games for the following reasons:



oblivion:

1.open world

2.multiple options

3.judicial system (although flawed it's something)

4.different armor and clothes (no recolors)

5.great story (prefer saving the emperor's son and making him king over a blight with an obvious final boss anyday)

6.character creation (same with DA:O i love adding myself into a game)

7.respawning creatures (come on guys animals and monsters breed like bunnies )

8.factions (i loved choosing factions to join, it was like being in a family )

9. less restrictions (i loved how i could be a warrior and still cast magic and wear magician clothes ((and vice-versa)) unlike most RPGs which have me making another character to see how things would be with them)

10.1st person-3rd person camera (love choosing either seeing the world through my eyes or their eyes)



DA:O

1. great story (although i like oblivions better for some reason)

2.great character development (loved having romances and friends)

3.sexual innuendos (oblivion didn't have much and i think some are funny)

4.humor (DA:O had tons of humor in their dialogue and it always made me stop adventuring so i could have a listen and enjoy them )

5.DLC (2yrs of DLC has benefits of course)

6.replayability (oblivion had none i can admit that since you only really needed one character and thats it...but this game ((although making you go down one road)) was still fun to play different origins to see what were the differences)

7.social site (i love this site...and once they fix all the kinks and bugs im sure it'll be better ((still want my character updated pls bioware)) then expected)





you know what i'm getting tired of typing lol but you get the picture...both games are great and you shouldnt be comparing apples to oranges here...



if you really want to compare this game to something it should be baldurs gate and such



but yeah i love both....in fact i may play some oblivion now that you guys mention it....it'll be like going to a family reunion and saying hi to old friends

[Proph2525]

I got Oblivion, played it for a few hours, and then had to put it down because the combat system was just so incredibly terrible.

DA:O's combat system alone makes it 100x better than Oblivion.

[Elenelt Teranis]

Oblivion is interest by some quests (example: Knights Of The Nine addon) and open world

Dragon Age is interest with plot, party members and dialogs (it's interesting and fun )



but no reason of comparing Oblivion and Dragon Age, because of there are different role-systems and game mechanics

[Statue]

Coming soon to the retro classics forum: Pacman > Donkey Kong?

[Prexxus]

Not really fair to compare these two... both have pros and cons but I have to say Oblivion fully modded with FCOM and all the other great mods out there > DAO for me.



The story in DAO of course is much more interactive and overall better then TESIV but when DAO was done for me, and it was done quickly. I didint find much replayability.



But Oblivion and Morrowind still keep me playing after all these years I still have both installed on my pc and play regularly.



Loved DAO though and I voted for it to be RPG of the year and I would vote Game of the year if it was up for it

[Sam -stone- serious]

eisberg77 wrote...

Why are people still trying to compare Apples to Tomatoes?

Because we are talking about 2 whole different games that are both highly playable. However some people might be alergic or simply not like one of the two "fruit" or simply have a preference over another. I have heard all kinds of opinions on the matter so far and there are people of both "castes" (to speak in DAO terms).

Its not possible to compare them fully as games but we can compare them as to their overall mechanics, future content ability (both player made and official one) and moding powers.

[Sam -stone- serious]

Proph2525 wrote...

I got Oblivion, played it for a few hours, and then had to put it down because the combat system was just so incredibly terrible.

DA:O's combat system alone makes it 100x better than Oblivion.

Thats not really true. We could argue of course that DAO  does now (combat wise) what 15 year old Japan RPGs did much better even back in the day. Today those games are just so much higher in terms of combat to anything "western" that its not even funny.

Combat is not the be all and end all in an RPG such as Oblivion and DAO .

P.S. Pro-tip, roll a mage / archer type character and install Francescos mod to fix your "problems"  once and for all.

[LunSei Sleidee]

Sam -stone- serious wrote...



Thats not really true. We could argue of course that DAO  does now (combat wise) what 15 year old Japan RPGs did much better even back in the day. Today those games are just so much higher in terms of combat to anything "western" that its not even funny.

.

Wait. You are NOT saying the awful combat system of japanese rpgs is BETTER???

[Sam -stone- serious]

Wait. You are NOT saying the awful combat system of japanese rpgs is BETTER???

You speak as if all Japanese RPGs have the same combat system.