299 réponses à ce sujet

[Tessah]

iVitriol wrote...

Emotions boil over, trolls pick fight, people get butthurt.

Just like any other day here on BSN really.

your so right

[Militarized]

MrNighttime wrote...

Militarized wrote...

While I concede that liking or not liking the ending is technically subjective, I'm also of the opinion that the people who DO like it have either not played ME1 or ME2 or do not have good critical thinking skills. Mostly what I hear about it is that it is "deep".... which isn't subjective in my opinion, it isn't deep. Which shows a lack of being read IMO.

But I'm an openly admitted ahole so that's just me.

I think it has more to do with the level of emotional involvement in the game ( and there will always be those who are exceptions) but I have been (about 60 time a minute at last count) and could be wrong again.

Fair point, that's kind of what I meant when I said they hadn't played ME1 or ME2 but I suppose it's possible they hadn't developed that emotional attachment that I did even if they did play them. 

And there's nothing wrong with being wrong . What really matters is taking a stand but at the same time knowing when you're in the wrong. 

Modifié par Militarized, 01 avril 2012 - 11:16 .

[Annora]

I implore those of you in the retake movement to go read Facebook wall posts and the Twitter feed for Mass Effect. You think all you're doing is presenting logical points about why the ending is bad and should be changed. In reality, most of the feedback they're getting is death threats and personal attacks.

[lillitheris]

VoodooDrackus wrote...

Ehhh, do I want to get into this? Should I get into this further? Probably not, but I will partially indulge you.

No, you probably shouldn't have.

The following are plot holes in Mass Effect based on your reasoning:
We never see the fleet actually go through the Mass Relays, we only see them come out by a mass relay near earth. Plot Hole.

False. We know the intent to do so, and we have the relevant information about MR travel explaining how it's done (including how large formations tend to travel). It does not require me to come up with strange or unrealistic (in the context of the game world) explanations.

We never see Anderson travel to London, only hear about it. Plot Hole.

False. The mechanism of traveling to London is unambiguous, and there are valid reasons for him to do so. It doesn't require me to come up with strange or unrealistic explanations.

The Space Hamster is not where I left him in his cage and I have to find him. Plot Hole.

Sure. I'm not sure if it's the same hamster to begin with, but let's say it's an inexplicable event.ould be bored out of your mind (well maybe, don't really know you).

Need I go on? Your reductio ad absurdum just isn't an effective debating tactic. Especially since even if these were all plot holes, it doesn't make the ending any better.

I realize that comes off as passive aggressive and I am sorry for that. I'm trying to help you see how we don't need to know every little detail to understand the over-arching narrative.

That's absolutely correct. The narrative just needs to be consistent.

Joker made a decision to save part of your crew, your LI and someone you relied on in combat. They crashed somewhere and now have a new life there. We don't need to know everything.

Everything? No. ANYthing? Yes.

- Why did Joker decide to run if basically all endings were ‘victories’?
- How did the squad get there?
- Where were they going?
- Why didn't they all die when the FTL tunnel collapsed (see codex)? (It's not MR travel, that's instantaneous.)
- How did they have time to fly at least 10 light years away (that's at the very least 5-6 hours even with a super-duper Normandy FTL drive)?
- How did they land?
- Why is everyone uninjured (from the fight on Earth, not to mention the crash itself)?


You're welcome to explain this to yourself in whatever manner you like. You can certainly craft a mostly plausible story behind it. But don't pretend that there are no problems with it.

Modifié par lillitheris, 01 avril 2012 - 11:30 .

[lillitheris]

Anastassia wrote...

I implore those of you in the retake movement to go read Facebook wall posts and the Twitter feed for Mass Effect. You think all you're doing is presenting logical points about why the ending is bad and should be changed. In reality, most of the feedback they're getting is death threats and personal attacks.

I'm sorry if that's the case: that would be totally inappropriate. So is you discounting all criticisms because of it.

[Peer of the Empire]

Bioware PR playing doofuses against each other

[Hudathan]

VoodooDrackus wrote...

No, the Normandy escape and crash is not a plot hole. It is not essential to the story. It isn't even needed. Bioware could have just ended the game right before showing the Normandy fleeing and it would be the same result. You made a choice on how the galaxy is going to function going forward. That is the ending of Shepards story. The Normandy scene is an epilogue, extra filler to give you added closure.

And besides it is not that big of a leap to figure out how the Normandy is fleeing and how the people stepping off of it relate to your Shepard. It does not defy explanation nor does it defy common sense. Right there that implies that anything that I try to explain is already doomed to failure. That is a problem, since it already sets the dialogue up to an obvious confrontation. That is what keeps breeding the animosity.

I agree it doesn't help anyone to keep aggravating everyone from either side, however right now all I see is the "anti-enders" doing nothing but aggravating anyone who has a view that is considered pro-ending. It's fairly easy to see how that pans out, the ones who like the ending are reluctant to even try and express their viewpoint for fear of just being drowned out by all of the negativity, attacks, etc. When they do respond, their anger for constantly being attacked and seeing a developer that they love being attacked may come out in their posts. It is a passion on either side. It's a vicious cycle. It doesn't help when statements are made that make any refuting doomed to be an attack on that viewpoint.

So many times I just want to say things without filtering them, but instead I agonize over every little word, every little phrase to tone down or remove any rhetoric that may make it's way to the page.  Sometimes I let morsels slip through that could be seen as a passive agressive attack I suppose. You know, let some venting of the shuttle bays happen.

ahhh, out of place context. I have brought nothing to the table.

This guy said it better than I ever could.

Everyone knows how pointless it is to argue on the internet and that'll never change. But on a happy note, threads like this are a happy change of pace with lots of positivity compared to what we're used to.

Modifié par Hudathan, 01 avril 2012 - 11:36 .

[Annora]

lillitheris wrote...

Anastassia wrote...

I implore those of you in the retake movement to go read Facebook wall posts and the Twitter feed for Mass Effect. You think all you're doing is presenting logical points about why the ending is bad and should be changed. In reality, most of the feedback they're getting is death threats and personal attacks.

I'm sorry if that's the case: that would be totally inappropriate. So is you discounting all criticisms because of it.

I'm not discounting your opinions, I'm telling you what's actually happening. Like my signature says, I DGAF one way or another. New ending? Cool. Same ending? Cool. Don't care.

What I care about is the disgusting amount of flaming, trolling, personal attacks, and death threats against REAL PEOPLE.

[MrNighttime]

Bioware should be happy about one thing--no matter what side of the issue you are on they made a game that made people care and feel and express true emotion for the endings (that is for all the non-trolls of course).

Modifié par MrNighttime, 01 avril 2012 - 11:39 .

[HenchxNarf]

Anastassia wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Anastassia wrote...

I implore those of you in the retake movement to go read Facebook wall posts and the Twitter feed for Mass Effect. You think all you're doing is presenting logical points about why the ending is bad and should be changed. In reality, most of the feedback they're getting is death threats and personal attacks.

I'm sorry if that's the case: that would be totally inappropriate. So is you discounting all criticisms because of it.

I'm not discounting your opinions, I'm telling you what's actually happening. Like my signature says, I DGAF one way or another. New ending? Cool. Same ending? Cool. Don't care.

What I care about is the disgusting amount of flaming, trolling, personal attacks, and death threats against REAL PEOPLE.

I like you. You make sense!

[Adanu]

Aurvant wrote...

@Adanu:

Fortunately, these aren't your boards and people can still post whatever grievances they have.

Posting grievances is fine.

Posting about the same **** over and over and over and over and over and over for nearly a MONTH is pathetic.

[xsdob]

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Bioware PR playing doofuses against each other

Anyone from the antiending crowd going to call this guy out for instigating a fight? Anyone at all?

Modifié par xsdob, 01 avril 2012 - 11:47 .

[HenchxNarf]

xsdob wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Bioware PR playing doofuses against each other

Anyone from the antiending crowd going to call this guy out for instigating a fight? Anyone at all?

You should know as well as I that they won't. Because they agree with that person.

[lillitheris]

Anastassia wrote...
What I care about is the disgusting amount of flaming, trolling, personal attacks, and death threats against REAL PEOPLE.

OK. What's that to do with the discussions on BSN, though?

[YeGodz]

xsdob wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Bioware PR playing doofuses against each other

Anyone from the antiending crowd going to call this guy out for instigating a fight? Anyone at all?

He's not instigating a fight. He's repeating the commonly held belief that bioware's insidious PR department is constantly trying to infiltrate the board in order to...uh...like, control minds, or something.

At this point, everyone's arguments and counterarguments are so much copypasta, anyway.

[lillitheris]

xsdob wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Bioware PR playing doofuses against each other

Anyone from the antiending crowd going to call this guy out for instigating a fight? Anyone at all?

Fine, I will! I'd normally ignore that (like I mentioned elsewhere, separating signal from noise is a skill) especially since Peer seems to be slamming both sides, but sure.

Peer, you made an nonconstructive comment.

[Alamar2078]

Good post OP. I pretty much hate the endings but I really wish folks on both sides would just back off with the whole attitude thing.

[Annora]

lillitheris wrote...

Anastassia wrote...
What I care about is the disgusting amount of flaming, trolling, personal attacks, and death threats against REAL PEOPLE.

OK. What's that to do with the discussions on BSN, though?

Because there's plenty of it on here, too. People from both sides, instead of offering counterpoints to arguments resort to personal attacks. As I said earlier in the thread, I've been called every name you can think of right now just for saying that I was okay with the ending. This ridiculous rhetoric needs to stop because it's making the entire Mass Effect community look like a bunch of kids throwing temper tantrums. Not the anti-enders, not the pro-enders, not the people who just DGAF, everyone. 

Modifié par Anastassia, 01 avril 2012 - 11:58 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Adanu wrote...

Aurvant wrote...

@Adanu:

Fortunately, these aren't your boards and people can still post whatever grievances they have.

Posting grievances is fine.

Posting about the same **** over and over and over and over and over and over for nearly a MONTH is pathetic.

Pathetic? 

Yeah sure, if you people wanting the omniscient corporate lackeys at BioWare to listen up and understand is totally pathetic. 

I guess everyone should just give up after a few days, I'm certain that would achieve a lot more. 

[Russalka]

Most people aren't after discussion anyway, more like expressing dominance. I think I just did it too.

[YeGodz]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Aurvant wrote...

@Adanu:

Fortunately, these aren't your boards and people can still post whatever grievances they have.

Posting grievances is fine.

Posting about the same **** over and over and over and over and over and over for nearly a MONTH is pathetic.

Pathetic? 

Yeah sure, if you people wanting the omniscient corporate lackeys at BioWare to listen up and understand is totally pathetic. 

I guess everyone should just give up after a few days, I'm certain that would achieve a lot more. 

Or you could, y'know, not spend hours on their forum staring zombie-like at their advertising...nah, your way's probably better....

[HenchxNarf]

Russalka wrote...

Most people aren't after discussion anyway, more like expressing dominance. I think I just did it too.

or whoever can yell the loudest or be the most annoying? Those work, too.

[scourgereaver]

HenchxNarf wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Bioware PR playing doofuses against each other

Anyone from the antiending crowd going to call this guy out for instigating a fight? Anyone at all?

You should know as well as I that they won't. Because they agree with that person.

Every single post you've made has had a sublte snarky remark embedded in it.  Perhaps it is you thats instigating a fight, no?  He/she wasn't referring to just one side of the coin, just the basic human instinct.

[HenchxNarf]

scourgereaver wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Bioware PR playing doofuses against each other

Anyone from the antiending crowd going to call this guy out for instigating a fight? Anyone at all?

You should know as well as I that they won't. Because they agree with that person.

Every single post you've made has had a sublte snarky remark embedded in it.  Perhaps it is you thats instigating a fight, no?  He/she wasn't referring to just one side of the coin, just the basic human instinct.

I haven't instigated anything, and most of my posts are actually having conversations.