299 réponses à ce sujet

[darknessmyown]

Intended or not, standing on one side of a debate can have the affect of making you believe that someone who stands in opposition of you has already started the fight and you just want to finish it. And going beyond that, some people are simply trolls, picking a side for what ever reason and then doing their best to rile the other up to no end.

I can not recall attacking anyone, and if I have I wish to apologize for that right now. What I have attacked to some degree is the reasoning for Bioware having Mass Effect 3 end on the note it did. If someone enjoyed the game as it is, I am happy for them, they got their monies worth out of the game. I do not feel that I have, and generally, that is what many of the arguments boil down to, how people are feeling. And most of the Anti group are feeling outrage over an ending they FEEL is full of plot holes, does not make good on promises about our actions and decisions mattering in the end, and seems to leave the universe as a whole in a state of disarray, every system cut off from one another, and no closure with those we have come to care about.

Once again, that is how I think most of those in the Anti group FEEL regarding this. And feelings can be hard to try to debate with.

[xsdob]

scourgereaver wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Bioware PR playing doofuses against each other

Anyone from the antiending crowd going to call this guy out for instigating a fight? Anyone at all?

You should know as well as I that they won't. Because they agree with that person.

Every single post you've made has had a sublte snarky remark embedded in it.  Perhaps it is you thats instigating a fight, no?  He/she wasn't referring to just one side of the coin, just the basic human instinct.

HenchxNarf, as someone from the proender crowed, I'm calling you out on your previous comment being overly generalizing. Everyone's stressed here but don't let yourself slip into rage responding, it leads to nothing but trouble.

Besides, someone from the anti-crowd did call out that guy so I'm satisfyed.

I appreciate your calm respones throughout the thread, but just be careful not to slip into the fight like I did yestarday.

Modifié par xsdob, 02 avril 2012 - 12:24 .

[HenchxNarf]

xsdob wrote...


HenchxNarf, as someone from the proender crowed, I'm calling you out on your previous comment being overly generalizing. Everyone's stressed here but don't let yourself slip into rage responding, it leads to nothing but trouble.

Besides, someone from the anti-crowd did call out that guy so I'm satisfyed.

Eh, I'm over it.

[Austin N]

Is it me, or does the pro vs anti problem seem particularly bad today? Maybe I just haven't been reading the right threads, but it seems nastier now than it has in the past few days.

Modifié par Austin N, 02 avril 2012 - 12:43 .

[joblagz]

 its like saying some people are in with necrophlia but a normal human being wont even dare think of it..
its like that in this case.. if you just played mass effect 3 and not the whole series then you wont get it because you have not invested your time in the series, the lore and the characters.. you would just accept whatever is presented..

which brings me to my next point.. LOYAL fans are the ones that are hit HARD...

[Annora]

joblagz wrote...

 its like saying some people are in with necrophlia but a normal human being wont even dare think of it..
its like that in this case.. if you just played mass effect 3 and not the whole series then you wont get it because you have not invested your time in the series, the lore and the characters.. you would just accept whatever is presented..

which brings me to my next point.. LOYAL fans are the ones that are hit HARD...

No, that's a gross generalization. There are plenty of people who have been fans from the start that were happy with Mass Effect 3.

It's also insulting and highly inappropriate to equate necrophilia with a video game ending.

[Russalka]

Oh hey, the necrophilia guy is back. Inappropriate comparisons do not really count as arguments.

[DaeJi]

Austin N wrote...

Is it me, or does the pro vs anti problem seem particularly bad today? Maybe I just haven't been reading the right threads, but it seems nastier now than it has in the past few days.

The ending debate has worn a lot of nerves raw. Retakers are tired of not hearing anything, proenders are tired of all of the discussion focus for Mass Effect 3 being about the endings. Once BioWare makes an announcement, any announcement, things will probably change. Either the endings will be changed and the Retakers will be too joyed to care about the proenders, or the endings will not change and the rage at BioWare will drown out and pro vs. anti ender wars.

[Dragoonlordz]

joblagz wrote...

 its like saying some people are in with necrophlia but a normal human being wont even dare think of it..
its like that in this case.. if you just played mass effect 3 and not the whole series then you wont get it because you have not invested your time in the series, the lore and the characters.. you would just accept whatever is presented..

which brings me to my next point.. LOYAL fans are the ones that are hit HARD...

No thats simply not true in any sense.

[frylock23]

HenchxNarf wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Bioware PR playing doofuses against each other

Anyone from the antiending crowd going to call this guy out for instigating a fight? Anyone at all?

You should know as well as I that they won't. Because they agree with that person.

This is another common tactic seen today. If one person in a group is being an @ss, then that group is instantly delegitimized if you can prove that even a few members did things that are outside the bounds of decency. (You can, of course, feel perfectly free to ignore the same behavior from those in your own group.) If the entire offending group fails to leap to denounce the person who is beyond the pale ... then everyone in that group must perforce silently agree with that offender and you can now feel free to treat as if they do and believe and act that way.

Congrats! You have studied Internet political debate 101 very well.

[xsdob]

joblagz wrote...

 its like saying some people are in with necrophlia but a normal human being wont even dare think of it..
its like that in this case.. if you just played mass effect 3 and not the whole series then you wont get it because you have not invested your time in the series, the lore and the characters.. you would just accept whatever is presented..

which brings me to my next point.. LOYAL fans are the ones that are hit HARD...

You are bashing peoples opinions and trying to insight mccarthyism against those who did not mind the endings, please stop.

[Liber320]

Most people don't like having their beliefs challenged, and can easily consider a belief that directly opposes theirs as a personal attack, especially when they're presented in the vaugely to not-so-vaugely hostile way many people are expressing their views on the endings lately.

Same thing happens on a larger scale when people discuss opposing views on politics or religion. It's unfortunate, but it's human nature.

[nametry629]

Not sure what the OP expects as this forum is troll heaven. All you have to do start a pro ending thread with a bunch of snide comments in it (and we have seen plenty of those since release) and wait for the bights.

[Welsh Inferno]

I really can't wait for whatever BW have to show at PAX. Even if its bad news so I can just move on. This place is just a pissing contest at the moment.

[The Night Mammoth]

YeGodz wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Adanu wrote...

Aurvant wrote...

@Adanu:

Fortunately, these aren't your boards and people can still post whatever grievances they have.

Posting grievances is fine.

Posting about the same **** over and over and over and over and over and over for nearly a MONTH is pathetic.

Pathetic? 

Yeah sure, if you people wanting the omniscient corporate lackeys at BioWare to listen up and understand is totally pathetic. 

I guess everyone should just give up after a few days, I'm certain that would achieve a lot more. 

Or you could, y'know, not spend hours on their forum staring zombie-like at their advertising...nah, your way's probably better....

Define the 'advertising' you speak of. 

Since the reason I'm here is because I want the fiasco rectified so BioWare can earn my loyalty again, I'm gonna say the adverstising, in whatever form you say it takes, isn't working. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 02 avril 2012 - 01:01 .

[xsdob]

frylock23 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Bioware PR playing doofuses against each other

Anyone from the antiending crowd going to call this guy out for instigating a fight? Anyone at all?

You should know as well as I that they won't. Because they agree with that person.

This is another common tactic seen today. If one person in a group is being an @ss, then that group is instantly delegitimized if you can prove that even a few members did things that are outside the bounds of decency. (You can, of course, feel perfectly free to ignore the same behavior from those in your own group.) If the entire offending group fails to leap to denounce the person who is beyond the pale ... then everyone in that group must perforce silently agree with that offender and you can now feel free to treat as if they do and believe and act that way.

Congrats! You have studied Internet political debate 101 very well.

I've been advocating for pro and anti ender responsiblilty since last night. It is because no one from one group ever calls out ones from their own side who cross the line that we get a sense that attacking eachother is okay. Than we get threads were everyone accuses the other of the actions of a few.

I have been trying to call out proenders who misbehave and go over the line, but I'm just one guy. I ask others to do the same, and those who hate the endings to start policing their own so that flamewars that pit side against side don't occur.

Above and below you is a poster who just compared proenders to necrophiliacs, why don't you try and tell him that this type of criticism is over the line instead fo accusing me of trying to start something.

[Star fury]

Is this thread about Ender "the Xenocide"?

Modifié par Star fury, 02 avril 2012 - 01:04 .

[MrnDpty161]

Really its dead time thats doing it. There's a lot of folks waiting and when you have so many people waiting while getting 0 answers, the conversations become repetitive.... then after the repetition gets old, you start seeing people pick on each other for lack of progress with anything else.

If you wish to read the ME2 boards, you can just as easily find posts that de-evolved in the same way, why this is new to folks for " unbelievable", I have no idea why because I think just about every fan-based website has these issues.

So you either get stuck into a rediclous fire-fight with someone over a fictional game or you simply don't and conduct your self to posts that make more reasonable sense to you.

Its really simple --- you bust the rules that are set on the site, you get the banhammer.

If someone goes over board --- report them.

If you can't stand what your reading....then stop...and move on.


Do these three things and you probably won't ever have an issue.

Belive it or not, this is one of the better  game communities to speak with ----- other places like IGN and others places? Brother you haven't felt  anaomisty and flaming yet! 

Modifié par MrnDpty161, 02 avril 2012 - 01:08 .

[Doxie99]

I'm very much in the Indoctrination Theory camp and believe that was never intended to be the real ending, so I'm kind of on the fence between these two groups of hilariously angry and condescending gamers. I really don't understand the anger considering there isn't enough information out there to back up either sides claims completely.

[NubXL]

lol @ "pro-enders" and "anti-enders". You've organized yourselves into adorable little gangs. Hilarious.

[ryuasiu]

Austin N wrote...

Is it me, or does the pro vs anti problem seem particularly bad today? Maybe I just haven't been reading the right threads, but it seems nastier now than it has in the past few days.

I think the april fools crap has gotten to everybody (including me earlier) I also I think everyone is expecting an answer at PAX. This place will explode from both sides if they dont give answers soon

[frylock23]

xsdob wrote...

frylock23 wrote...

HenchxNarf wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Peer of the Empire wrote...

Bioware PR playing doofuses against each other

Anyone from the antiending crowd going to call this guy out for instigating a fight? Anyone at all?

You should know as well as I that they won't. Because they agree with that person.

This is another common tactic seen today. If one person in a group is being an @ss, then that group is instantly delegitimized if you can prove that even a few members did things that are outside the bounds of decency. (You can, of course, feel perfectly free to ignore the same behavior from those in your own group.) If the entire offending group fails to leap to denounce the person who is beyond the pale ... then everyone in that group must perforce silently agree with that offender and you can now feel free to treat as if they do and believe and act that way.

Congrats! You have studied Internet political debate 101 very well.

I've been advocating for pro and anti ender responsiblilty since last night. It is because no one from one group ever calls out ones from their own side who cross the line that we get a sense that attacking eachother is okay. Than we get threads were everyone accuses the other of the actions of a few.

I have been trying to call out proenders who misbehave and go over the line, but I'm just one guy. I ask others to do the same, and those who hate the endings to start policing their own so that flamewars that pit side against side don't occur.

Above and below you is a poster who just compared proenders to necrophiliacs, why don't you try and tell him that this type of criticism is over the line instead fo accusing me of trying to start something.

Calling individuals out doesn't do anything to change anyone. You can't stop them from being objectionable, and you only call attention to them which may actually encourage them to continue. The only person whose behavior you can control is your own, and the best use of it isn't to play Internet police. If everyone simply minded their own business and kept a cool head rather than trying to force everyone else to play nice, we'd pretty soon know who was worth paying attention to and who wasn't.

Let the jerks be jerks. It only exposes them for who they really are. And their words are pretty much meaningless. If they get a thread locked, we just carry the constructive discussion elsewhere.

[Rafe34]

Why? Because I have yet to see one single logical, coherent, defense of the ending.

If you liked the ending, that's all well and good.

If you want to say its a good ending that works for Mass Effect, I'd love to hear actual logical reasoning, because the narrative is broken. It is objectively bad.

The arguments from pro-enders are either "I liked it," which I don't mind, or "It's art and you can't have it changed," or "It's too deep for you/you don't get the endings."

Fine, you liked it, have fun. Just don't say that it provided closure when it didn't, or that it explained what happened, when it didn't. That's all your speculation as to what happened.

From a narrative viewpoint, the ending is broken, completely and utterly broken. That is NOT an opinion.

A pro-ender that says s/he likes the ending is fine in my book. One that says the ending is "good" should have a coherent reason WHY it's good.

[MrnDpty161]

There has been worse flame wars, this doesn't compare to the Shooters Vs RPGers in the ME2 boards awhile back --- now you want to know and read some major hater-aid lol

[RaenImrahl]

Folks, I appreciate that it is human nature to want to engage in discussion on the behavior of others. However, this forum is really suppose to be about the game. Also, while some have managed to maintain at least a veneer of civility, and "vs" thread is prone to get ugly-- which is why they're discouraged on the social network.

Locking.