269 réponses à ce sujet

[geckosentme]

OP: Agree entirely. Forgot to mention all the convos your forced to have about your frustration over Thessia with Joker and Anderson. I reloaded and just skipped them.

The only dream sequence that is any good is the one where you see yourself though trite it's at least sort of freaky and if the dreams mean nothing else seems to at least foreshadow Shepards acknowledgement of his/her own death.

[Grasich]

ed87 wrote...

Its quite obvious that the attempts to get players emotional were transperant and poorly thought out. My Shepard in ME3 felt like an NPC for a lot of the dialogue sections in the game.

I cant help but think if Bioware had time to put away their work, and come back later to view it in a more objective and clear state of mind that disaster could have been averted

This. I hate the constant dialogue where you can either choose to say something about how you're moping about Earth, or how you think every other species is racist.

Honestly, I was more concerned about Thessia and Palaven than I ever was about Earth.

My Shep was from Mindoir, and spent a lot more time around aliens than humans. Why should he have a stronger attachment to Earth than any other planet?

[sorentoft]

I agree with this. I did not care about the kid. I would have cared if Anderson died. I would have been fine without the kid and had actual -real- nightmares instead. Actually it would have been far, far better. Why no nightmare of the reapers winning? Why no nightmare of Shepard's loved ones getting huskified? I have no attachment to that brat, its death does not disturb me because I know that in this universe there is already happening far worse things than someone dying quickly in a reaper blast.

Modifié par sorentoft, 01 avril 2012 - 02:25 .

[FatalX7.0]

Kilshrek wrote...

Yeah, these issues got smoothed over because of the huge crease that is the ending, but I do agree on these.

I was just thinking, how the hell does Shep get PTSD/nightmares on account of one kid, when she'd left a subordinate to be atomised on Virmire, and before that had one ripped to shreds by geth drones. Depending on the sequence of events leading up to ME 3, Shep could also have lost an entire ship's crew. Shep also witnessed the liquefication of people to feed a Reaper. One kid getting blasted out of the sky? *shrugs*

And, I'd rather not have more cutscene deaths, if it's all the same to you. Those enrage me like nothing else.

Dreams can work like that in real life. You can't exactly control what pops into your head when you're asleep. I'm sure everyone has had dreams or nightmares influenced by seemingly random or unimportant things. I know I have.

And, you can hear the voices of squadmates you've lost in the dreams, calling your name. Who you lost on Virmire included.

[Ekyri]

I didn't mind the dream sequences or the forced sadness after thessia, even though the whole Kai Leng thing was beyond stupid, but I really can't stand that kid. They couldn't have used a character we would actually have a reason to care about instead of some random 5 second kid with no instinct for survival?

[noxsachi]

Grasich wrote...

ed87 wrote...

Its quite obvious that the attempts to get players emotional were transperant and poorly thought out. My Shepard in ME3 felt like an NPC for a lot of the dialogue sections in the game.

I cant help but think if Bioware had time to put away their work, and come back later to view it in a more objective and clear state of mind that disaster could have been averted

This. I hate the constant dialogue where you can either choose to say something about how you're moping about Earth, or how you think every other species is racist.

Honestly, I was more concerned about Thessia and Palaven than I ever was about Earth.

My Shep was from Mindoir, and spent a lot more time around aliens than humans. Why should he have a stronger attachment to Earth than any other planet?

This. 2/3 of the backgrounds do not tie you into Earth very well at all. And hell...the human characters I liked were not even from Earth...at least I don't think Miranda or Jack were from Earth. They did a bad job of selling Earth as important beyond a distant homeworld, when even your canonical best friend is from Palaven...not Earth.

Edit: To the dream parts above. I suppose you cannot control your dreams, but aside from the whispers(The /only/ good part of the sequences as is) there is nothing freaky about the dream. It does not subvert any expectations, it is just slow running after a character that you are told to care about despite nothing in game creating a connection. If the dreams were just a flash of all the major decisions you made with character's voice over played over it...that would be more moving and affecting than what is in the game right now.

Modifié par noxsachi, 01 avril 2012 - 02:32 .

[geckosentme]

RighteousNorn wrote...



On the other hand, Thessia is one of my favorite parts of the game because story-wise, it feels new to me. I feel like the space-marine-who-keeps-going-like-a-bullet-until-he-hits-the-bullseye-and-is-so-manly-and-badass-he-doesn't-let-the-emotions-get-to-him storyline has been done so many times that I expect it, and it bores me. Sure, Shepard's been through a lot and he's never wavered - but he's also been through a lot, and it only bought them a little time, and now the losses keep stacking up... I like that psychological degradation finally starts to kick in. (Heck, Udina even mentions at one point that Kaidan's a good pick for Spectre because he's a veteran who *doesn't* have PTSD, which would be a serious problem, especially after the Reapers invade.)
 

I could see how this works for male Shepard to create depth because it breaks the male space-marine stereotype, but the Thessia whining kind of degrades female Shepard because it enforces stereotypes.

Modifié par geckosentme, 01 avril 2012 - 02:31 .

[FatalX7.0]

Mass Effect 3 as a whole, though...

It's not as much of the RPG that it was in Mass Effect 1 and 2. Auto-dialogue is everywhere, the dialogue you do choose, no point in even making you choose it if Shepard already said everything important. Less Interrupts and Paragon/Renegade choices. Less actual dialogue.

You're very, very disconnected from Shepard in this game. He/she is very independent now, Shepard is his/her own person and you, the player, are just along for the ride.

The whole thing just reeks of RUSHED.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 01 avril 2012 - 02:35 .

[p__q]

honestly find myself agreeing with every point you made here, but I think the reason ending still gets the majority of focus is that even though these points certainly annoyed me it didn't detract too much from my overall experience as a whole ( ending however...)

[wright1978]

Regarding the kid and nightmare sequences i completely agree. The kid is just such a weak plot device that shouldn't have any place in a choice driven game. I think somebody liked Heavy Rain and shoved the kid dying concept from that into ME3. Problem is we are presented with no reason to care for the kid and 2+ games of reasons to care for lots of other characters far more. Feels really artificial with makes the dream sequences comical too.

[brbvideotapes]

I agree, OP. Good post. (:

I personally had no problem with the forced conveyance of emotion, since I, myself, was affected by both the kid and Thessia, as well as most of the other events where Shep gets sad (although now on my second play through, having seen the Starkid, I could care less about the shuttle crash..).

I DO agree that generally, it's not a very good thing at all. Like, why would a super Renegade Shep that punches news reporters on a regular basis be affected by some brat? I've never made a Renegade, so I can only imagine how weird that must be, it just breaks the character that you've worked so hard to mold in your own image, so to speak.

edited for minor fixes.

Modifié par brbvideotapes, 01 avril 2012 - 02:38 .

[Grasich]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 as a whole, though...

It's not as much of the RPG that it was in Mass Effect 1 and 2. Auto-dialogue is everywhere, the dialogue you do choose, no point in even making you choose it if Shepard already said everything important. Less Interrupts and Paragon/Renegade choices. Less actual dialogue.

You're very, very disconnected from Shepard in this game. He/she is very independent now, Shepard is his/her own person and you, the player, are just along for the ride.

The whole thing just reeks of RUSHED.

Very much this. I just finished replayed the first two, and TRYING to replay the third now. It's not even the ending that's stopping me now, it's just that the dialogue is so... forced.

ME1 in particular really let you say what you wanted to say.

ME2 forced a little more dialogue, but it was still acceptable due to plot lines needing to go a certain way. Pretty much all the forced dialogue in ME2 is plot related, and so is kind of necessary.

ME3 forces you to say just about everything, giving you VERY little choice, even when the plot would allow you to say numerous alternatives for the same basic result. There is some forced dialogue that's plot related, but a ton of it is opinion related, which is just BAD.

Why do I not have the option to say that I'm more concerned about *** world than about Earth?

Why can't I be the one to suggest going to the Council for aid, rather than being forced to say I want to stay and fight on Earth?

Why, after the dreams, do I either have to say "I'm worried/thinking about Earth/Kaiden/Ashley" or "GTFO", rather than actually choosing an alternative (Thessia/Palaven/Alternative Dead Character)?

For that matter, why are we even trying to retake Earth when the bulk of the Reapers are there? I would've just detonated the Sol relay and been done with it.

[Austin N]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

For that matter, why are we even trying to retake Earth when the bulk of the Reapers are there? I would've just detonated the Sol relay and been done with it.

You might be asking for a wee much there.

Modifié par Austin N, 01 avril 2012 - 02:47 .

[FatalX7.0]

Austin N wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

For that matter, why are we even trying to retake Earth when the bulk of the Reapers are there? I would've just detonated the Sol relay and been done with it.

You might be asking for a wee much there.

WAT?

I NEVER SAID THAT.

[Grasich]

Austin N wrote...

Grasich wrote...

For that matter, why are we even trying to retake Earth when the bulk of the Reapers are there? I would've just detonated the Sol relay and been done with it.

You might be asking for a wee much there.

Well, you're able to sacrifice part of the human fleet in ME1 just to save the council, and in ME2 you blow up a system with 300,000 Batarians just to delay the Reapers for a few months. So why not be able to obliterate Earth to take out the bulk of the Reaper forces?

Kill 5.5 billion to save hundreds of billions

Modifié par Grasich, 01 avril 2012 - 02:51 .

[Grasich]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

WAT?

I NEVER SAID THAT.

lol he messed up the quote, that was my quote.

Modifié par Grasich, 01 avril 2012 - 02:51 .

[noxsachi]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 as a whole, though...

It's not as much of the RPG that it was in Mass Effect 1 and 2. Auto-dialogue is everywhere, the dialogue you do choose, no point in even making you choose it if Shepard already said everything important. Less Interrupts and Paragon/Renegade choices. Less actual dialogue.

You're very, very disconnected from Shepard in this game. He/she is very independent now, Shepard is his/her own person and you, the player, are just along for the ride.

The whole thing just reeks of RUSHED.

Yeah, it is a very wierd feeling and not one I like. There are so few dialogue options that you can go for what feels like five-ten minutes in a cutscene before you actually get a chance to choose how Shepard responds!

This is very wierd for me, because despite how obvious say Dragon Age II was rushed, I always felt that I had the same level of control I had for Hawke that I had for Shepard in ME2 at the least. I never felt like my character was just saying things outside of my control. In ME3 Shep just keeps going and going with relatively little input from me. Not very encouraging.

[ZeroSum7]

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Agreed, all the nightmare scenes did was annoy me, I didn't really care one way or another about the kid.

[malra]

For me the largest overall problem/change in the tenor/quality of the storytelling is that, especially in ME1, the way differents parts of the story occur you know that the writers were asking constantly "if a player does choice A, then choice 1 occurs", "if a player does choice B, then choice 2 occurs" to follow through all of the possible intended and unintended consequences of the story. For example, Liara's reaction is different if you show up to rescue her early as opposed to rescuing her late. For me this is a classic example of trying to bring depth which in its turn brings replayability to an RPG. It truly makes every Shepards experience different, and although we arrive at the same end that was okay because we knew the story was going to be continued and the Shepard we had just created would be there to pick up where we left off. For me, the whole reason the ending fails is because they didn't account for all the possible story lines or types of Shepards that would have been created by the player. And that is the essence of good role play.

[Austin N]

Sorry about that, I botched up the quote formatting so that my response was part of the quote, and I ended up deleting the wrong name.

[njfluffy19]

In other words, this should have happened:

[clarkusdarkus]

Grasich wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 as a whole, though...

It's not as much of the RPG that it was in Mass Effect 1 and 2. Auto-dialogue is everywhere, the dialogue you do choose, no point in even making you choose it if Shepard already said everything important. Less Interrupts and Paragon/Renegade choices. Less actual dialogue.

You're very, very disconnected from Shepard in this game. He/she is very independent now, Shepard is his/her own person and you, the player, are just along for the ride.

The whole thing just reeks of RUSHED.

Very much this. I just finished replayed the first two, and TRYING to replay the third now. It's not even the ending that's stopping me now, it's just that the dialogue is so... forced.

ME1 in particular really let you say what you wanted to say.

ME2 forced a little more dialogue, but it was still acceptable due to plot lines needing to go a certain way. Pretty much all the forced dialogue in ME2 is plot related, and so is kind of necessary.

ME3 forces you to say just about everything, giving you VERY little choice, even when the plot would allow you to say numerous alternatives for the same basic result. There is some forced dialogue that's plot related, but a ton of it is opinion related, which is just BAD.

Why do I not have the option to say that I'm more concerned about *** world than about Earth?

Why can't I be the one to suggest going to the Council for aid, rather than being forced to say I want to stay and fight on Earth?

Why, after the dreams, do I either have to say "I'm worried/thinking about Earth/Kaiden/Ashley" or "GTFO", rather than actually choosing an alternative (Thessia/Palaven/Alternative Dead Character)?

For that matter, why are we even trying to retake Earth when the bulk of the Reapers are there? I would've just detonated the Sol relay and been done with it.

both this ... the first thing i said after the endings was it didnt feel like mass effect to me, was so rushed.

[FatalX7.0]

njfluffy19 wrote...

In other words, this should have happened:

Lolwat.

[noxsachi]

njfluffy19 wrote...

In other words, this should have happened:

+19 Renegade. Worth it.

[Grasich]

njfluffy19 wrote...

In other words, this should have happened:

This pleases me.