26 réponses à ce sujet

[nicethugbert]

Wasteland 2 has met it's goal to raise $900,000 from gamers, not publishers, to start the project and make it the game the fans want.  I was wondering if something like this might get us NWN3 or the next advancement in toolset based games.

I never played Wasteland but it sounds very BG like or what BG fans typically expect from a game: open world, choices, turn based, party based, 3rd person, etc..  Wasteland.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 01 avril 2012 - 03:03 .

[MokahTGS]

 This is something that I think this community should approach Obsidian about.  Basically a true toolset based game made with true community feedback by people that understand how to make it.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

Could we frame this as a community-funded expansion? I.E. we all pledge X dollars, maybe as a pre-order, and then OEI uses the money to get NWN2 into a final patch that leaves the game engine open for further modding. In other words, as NWN2 spends the next decade in the bargin bin, OEI makes a few more dollars from the new expansion, modders get an updated game to mod, and eventually NWN2 becomes the $5 cRPG that everyone has to have.

[kamal_]

Why expansion? New d20 game with a modern (open source for further modding, like Ogre) engine.

[Alupinu]

kamal_ wrote...

Why expansion? New d20 game with a modern (open source for further modding, like Ogre) engine.

I agree, if we are to do something like this then let’s go for a whole new engine and the works.

I have always considered patching an old tire just a waste of time and money.

Modifié par Alupinu, 01 avril 2012 - 09:58 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

My thinking is that the patch would need a lot less funding, an essentially would be run as a side project out of OEI- hence no need to start up a whole new organization, nor do you need to secure the rights to everything, since the old NWN2 licenses (and legal infrastructure) would still apply.

More importantly, once we've established that a joint studio-community project can work, then that gives the studios leverage when they're hashing out their deals with the big developers (and WotC, for that matter). Eventually some OEI project leader with his mortgage paid off will get p-d off enough to go rogue and do the game without distributor support. They can't make that leap until they know they have another source of funding available. Then they build the gaming resource co-op that makes the big projects feasible (all the proprietary stuff, from Granny to Speedtrees, would have to be replaced, by open-license developers). With all that in place, then you can start on the 3+ years of development it would take to build a game from scratch.

The other option is to do everything outside the old corporate structure, which probably needs to happen, too. But if you want to give money to established businesses, you have to make sure it's on terms that they can understand and work with.

[Alupinu]

Well LRS I can’t dispute your argument, it does make good sense. A whole new engine or game could easily cost in the millions of dollars. It would make better dollar sense to start with a more practical goal. So yes I would be in support of a patch 1.24 as a stepping stone to a brighter future.

Modifié par Alupinu, 01 avril 2012 - 11:46 .

[Happycrow]

You know, some news is way too good for April 1st.
::crosses fingers and hopes this one's legit::

Frankly, if they'd license us the source code, WE could produce nwn3...

[M. Rieder]

If OEI would produce a final-patch product that ships/downloads fully patched, I would pay up to $40 for it. IF they just put out a 1.24 patch. I would pay up to $10.

[nicethugbert]

How about a new game that is not d20 but can be modded to be in the toolset?  I figure, the better the toolset, the less we have to wait for The Devs to supply us with content.  Although, I'll gladly buy pro level stuff anyday.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 02 avril 2012 - 01:10 .

[-Semper-]

Lugaid of the Red Stripes wrote...

Could we frame this as a community-funded expansion? I.E. we all pledge X dollars, maybe as a pre-order, and then OEI uses the money to get NWN2 into a final patch that leaves the game engine open for further modding.

some of you are dreaming always. first the source code and now the fan pledged xpansion and patch. that's never gonna happen because obsidian's in absolutely no control of nwn2! the publisher, in this case atari, decides about patches and further content and i highly doubt that they give green light to something like this 

obsidian should do their own project with a completely new ip. this way they could create something decent and earn all the cash by themself. they have their own engine and tools therefore the budget of 1.5-2mio is perfectly fine.

about a toolset and onyx: i know that dungeon siege 3 uses our beloved granny3d. so if they're not switching their animation control code the modable content will be very limited right from the start, just remember nwn2.
given the fact that all official links of the expotron plugin were deleted i guess that rad gametools didn't allow this. in this case there won't be another plugin for further gr2 modding in onyx.

[kamal_]

-Semper- wrote...

Lugaid of the Red Stripes wrote...

Could we frame this as a community-funded expansion? I.E. we all pledge X dollars, maybe as a pre-order, and then OEI uses the money to get NWN2 into a final patch that leaves the game engine open for further modding.

some of you are dreaming always. first the source code and now the fan pledged xpansion and patch. that's never gonna happen because obsidian's in absolutely no control of nwn2! the publisher, in this case atari, decides about patches and further content and i highly doubt that they give green light to something like this 

obsidian should do their own project with a completely new ip. this way they could create something decent and earn all the cash by themself. they have their own engine and tools therefore the budget of 1.5-2mio is perfectly fine.

about a toolset and onyx: i know that dungeon siege 3 uses our beloved granny3d. so if they're not switching their animation control code the modable content will be very limited right from the start, just remember nwn2.
given the fact that all official links of the expotron plugin were deleted i guess that rad gametools didn't allow this. in this case there won't be another plugin for further gr2 modding in onyx.

I believe you read the news wrong. That kickstarter is not from Obsidian, but from another group. Obsidian promised some help if the kickstarter reached a certain amount. It's not clear whether Obsidian would even be paid for the help, though I presume they would.

[-Semper-]

you know that my initial post is connected to the quote, right?
later i talked about a possible project right from obsidian.
btw that "other" group is inxile and they will pay obsidian for their help. it's brian fargo, goddamit - he's one of the good guys!

[FedericoV]

-Semper- wrote...

you know that my initial post is connected to the quote, right?
later i talked about a possible project right from obsidian.
btw that "other" group is inxile and they will pay obsidian for their help. it's brian fargo, goddamit - he's one of the good guys!

I backed the project too because I really hope that Obsidian will be part of Wasteland project.

After what I've read about Obsidian not taking the bonus from Bethesda because of the Metacritic score (84 vs. 85) I'll do anything I can to help Avellone, Feargus and the other guys.

[kamal_]

I contributed to Wasteland 2 before Obsidian was announced. I guess that makes me kind of a video game hipster. Of course now that Obsidian was brought up, the game is totally mainstream and since I'm apparently a hipster I'm no longer allowed to like them and required to complain about how they sold out or something.

/ hopes it turns out to be good.

[The Fred]

"...NPCs might temporarily refuse to give up an item or perform an action if ordered to do so. The game was also noted for its high and unforgiving difficulty level."

Sold!

Modifié par The Fred, 02 avril 2012 - 11:08 .

[kamal_]

-Semper- wrote...

you know that my initial post is connected to the quote, right?
later i talked about a possible project right from obsidian.
btw that "other" group is inxile and they will pay obsidian for their help. it's brian fargo, goddamit - he's one of the good guys!

Yeah, being on mobile messed up how I read the quotes. I was chatting with Mokah last night on irc, and her idea was basically for some not Obsidian group to start a kickstarter for what would amount to a short demo game, + actual toolset (not some basic toolset like the Star Trek Online "Forge"), and have Obsidian agree to come be hired help at x dollar amount, with the toolset and assets being the focus, and the game being a "this is what you can do", with Obsidian being able to sell/market "premium modules" ala nwn1.

/mokah will strike me down if I remembered incorrectly!

[MokahTGS]

kamal_ wrote...

-Semper- wrote...

you know that my initial post is connected to the quote, right?
later i talked about a possible project right from obsidian.
btw that "other" group is inxile and they will pay obsidian for their help. it's brian fargo, goddamit - he's one of the good guys!

Yeah, being on mobile messed up how I read the quotes. I was chatting with Mokah last night on irc, and her idea was basically for some not Obsidian group to start a kickstarter for what would amount to a short demo game, + actual toolset (not some basic toolset like the Star Trek Online "Forge"), and have Obsidian agree to come be hired help at x dollar amount, with the toolset and assets being the focus, and the game being a "this is what you can do", with Obsidian being able to sell/market "premium modules" ala nwn1.

/mokah will strike me down if I remembered incorrectly!

**strikes Kamal down for being correct because she can**

That was the general gist.  

[0100010]

As for the next RPG toolset game (not NWN3 in name or IP) there has been and will continue to be future discussions on such a project among various community members.

If your serious about wanting to get into such an endevour in the future, PM me.
Serious as in willing to throw 20+ hours a week at it within an organized and scheduled set of project goals and milestones, and not burn out when the tedious grunt work rears its head.

Modifié par 0100010, 03 avril 2012 - 12:37 .

[nicethugbert]

What is, or are, the one piece, or pieces, of the puzzle that is, or are, not available via open source? The toolset and related(script, plugins, etc.)?  Isn't the toolset what drove a wedge between the NWN1 and NWN2 community?  The inability to import NWN1 assets and proceed from them?

Incidentally, vapor is an open source engine and editor to make 3D games.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 03 avril 2012 - 08:31 .

[-Semper-]

kamal_ wrote...

Yeah, being on mobile messed up how I read the quotes. I was chatting with Mokah last night on irc, and her idea was basically for some not Obsidian group to start a kickstarter for what would amount to a short demo game, + actual toolset (not some basic toolset like the Star Trek Online "Forge"), and have Obsidian agree to come be hired help at x dollar amount, with the toolset and assets being the focus, and the game being a "this is what you can do", with Obsidian being able to sell/market "premium modules" ala nwn1.

so basically you want to code your one engine and tools and if a certain amount of cash is pledged obsidian will be hired to help out with coding and asset creation? in this case you need at least 2mio dollars.

without an official statement from obsidian there's no way your kickstarter group will earn that high amount.

but there's another (way better) idea crawling in my head:

why don't you ask obsidian how much it is to license their onyx engine and development  tools? chosen individuals under nda from the community will have access to the source code and a toolset can be released to the community. this way the individuals can rework the source code to the communities need and everybody is happy. we even have control of the camera and can create our beloved turn based crpgs from the past

i would instantly pledge to such a project! only question is if there're enough people interested in such an engine/toolset cooperation.

it's not really open source but this way the community won't have to create their own engine from the start which is a fukkin' huge amount of work.

0100010 wrote...

As for the next RPG toolset game (not
NWN3 in name or IP) there has been and will continue to be future
discussions on such a project among various community members.

second best idea would be that our pro coders from the community help out that guy who created "half" of the open source toee engine. that is by far the best implementation of turn based dnd combat EVER! it's got nice 2d backgrounds and 3d models for monsters and npcs.

if there really is such a momentum in the community you should start right there. help this guy and there's your engine/toolset you want in quasi no time

Modifié par -Semper-, 03 avril 2012 - 08:11 .

[kamal_]

I didn't say me, but why would any small group want to create their own engine to start with when there are multiple free/open source engines, engines that are used for commercial games (such as Torchlight)? Creating an engine would be a waste of time and money.

[darkling lithely]

So strange to find this thread. . . have been wondering why the talent around this game doesn't start from scratch.

Make a new NWN with unreal 3. All the rules of DnD or Pathfinder can be used just so long as the lore isn't.

[-Semper-]

without source access ue3 is by far the worst engine to create crpgs, besides that it looks fugly. but that's a matter of taste.

[nicethugbert]

The engine can be pure awesome but if the toolset sucks then it's a chore to get anything done, hence it will not get done. Collaborating in NWN is not easy at all.