223 réponses à ce sujet

[Bleachrude]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Militarized wrote...

You cannot have intergalactic travel with the FTLs in Mass Effect, it's stated at the very beginning of Mass Effect 1. No relays = no travel except for VERY, VERY close systems that are next to yours.

No, it isn't.

You can't have the scale or speed of Mass Relay travel with FTL, but the barrier for 'slow' FTL is logistics, not capacity.

Shepard flies across entire nebulas in matters of days.

This

What you would see is a fracturing of galactic society into smaller "cluster" sized distinct societies. Keep in mind those clusters literally have thousands of stars so each cluster would have more than enough resources...

Keep in mind that you would still have trade between ckusters (several months travel) but this is not insurmountable give that in human history, the most famous trade route, the Silk Road, took 18 months from one end to the other...

[Ziggeh]

Couldn't be clearer, energy is reusable, so if stored energy is released by a massive field it can totally just use that same energy again in an explosion.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Barict78 wrote...

Actually look it up online it would take HUNDREDS of years at FTL to get from earth to the nearest Star.

The nearest star is a little over four light years away. It has been previously established that trips of 12 light years a day are as common as modern domestic air travel is today. Sorry, but you're wrong.

Oh and if u like the end great but it is a broken story and broken ending. Dont believe me? Actually watch this:  
And then tell me what u Honestly think of the end of ME3 but u must actually WATCH the whole thing not just blindly defend the ending

Nobody here is blindly defending the ending. This thread is about whether everyone's assumptions about whether everything is destroyed in the ending are correct or not. Please read the thread before posting a link to your half-hour video that nobody can be bothered to watch.

[nwj94]

As the guy in this video pointed out the problem is that the endings themselves don't define it. I shouldn't have to go to the internet to understand why they did or didn't blow up, or to what degree. The ending its self should have made it clear.

[devwild]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
No, it isn't.

You can't have the scale or speed of Mass Relay travel with FTL, but the barrier for 'slow' FTL is logistics, not capacity.

Shepard flies across entire nebulas in matters of days.

Aside from the fact that this isn't really true seeing as the game plays fast and loose with the dimensions of the galaxy and those nebula are just pretty backdrops.... a nebula isn't indicative of travel over true interstellar distances.

The horsehead nebula is 13 light years across. The galaxy is 100,000 light years + across. Say it takes 5 days, optimistically, to cross the nebula - that would mean it would take 100 years minimum to cross the galxy - assuming you could get your hands on enough eezo for the trip. Which you couldn't, because it's too rare, and would be in even higher demand now.

And as has been said, the codex of the story itself implies the situation is much worse than that. Interstellar travel would be generational, largely impractical. If you can't get eezo you're restricted to sub-light speeds because the mass effect is needed to achieve FTL. For those in the Sol system with only military resources, and in systems now dependent on interstellar trade, it is a death sentence.

[OhoniX]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Samuel_Valkyrie wrote...

In Arrival, it wasn't just the destruction with an asteroid that the loe said would blow up the entire starsystem, it's the destruction of a Mass Relay. Anytime a Mass Relay is destroyed, so Arrival indicated, it would result in a catastrophic event.

Furthermore, destroying the Mass Relay Network is bringing about a new Dark Age...exactly what we tried to prevent. So, why did we play this game again?

This.

Not this, because it was the relay but the energy inside the relay that caused estruction. If the energy inside the relay is used, then it won't have an Arrival effect.

Nor was Shepard's story about preventing a new Dark Age, it was about preventing the total genophage of space-faring species.

This.

[Bleachrude]

Barict78 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Militarized wrote...

You cannot have intergalactic travel with the FTLs in Mass Effect, it's stated at the very beginning of Mass Effect 1. No relays = no travel except for VERY, VERY close systems that are next to yours.

No, it isn't.

You can't have the scale or speed of Mass Relay travel with FTL, but the barrier for 'slow' FTL is logistics, not capacity.

Shepard flies across entire nebulas in matters of days.

Actually look it up online it would take HUNDREDS of years at FTL to get from earth to the nearest Star. Oh and if u like the end great but it is a broken story and broken ending. Dont believe me? Actually watch this:  
And then tell me what u Honestly think of the end of ME3 but u must actually WATCH the whole thing not just blindly defend the ending

Er, don't think you realize just how bloody fast ME FTL is...

From the codex in ME3 and Ashley in ME1, FTL is about 12-15 light years per day...Assuming no worries about logistics (and this is the real problem), a ME ship can cross the galaxy in 28 years.

That is crazy fast speed...

Assuming that the relays didn't blow up the home systems, all it means is that you no longer would casually go from Tuchanka in the morning to the citadel in the afternoon and be in Thessia by the evening..

[Barict78]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

Actually look it up online it would take HUNDREDS of years at FTL to get from earth to the nearest Star.

The nearest star is a little over four light years away. It has been previously established that trips of 12 light years a day are as common as modern domestic air travel is today. Sorry, but you're wrong.

Oh and if u like the end great but it is a broken story and broken ending. Dont believe me? Actually watch this:  
And then tell me what u Honestly think of the end of ME3 but u must actually WATCH the whole thing not just blindly defend the ending

Nobody here is blindly defending the ending. This thread is about whether everyone's assumptions about whether everything is destroyed in the ending are correct or not. Please read the thread before posting a link to your half-hour video that nobody can be bothered to watch.

Its not as if The Speed of light can be changed to suit your argument it is a setg number ME or not and yes it would take hundreds of years to reach any of the planents u think may somehow be alive still after the Relays explode. If nothing else think of the galatic map and how far the stars are from earth, Thessia for example it would take several lifetimes to get from earth to thessia u cant just say the speed of light is faster cuz it fits ur vision of the end its a SET number light travels at a set speed it does not have AFTERBURNERS.

[mupp3tz]

All they gave us is assumptions, that's the problem. :[

In regards to FTL travel, what about resources?  Those are probably decimated, if not gone.  How will you power FTL travel to far away systems?  That's a mighty huge risk.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 01 avril 2012 - 04:08 .

[Barict78]

Bleachrude wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Militarized wrote...

You cannot have intergalactic travel with the FTLs in Mass Effect, it's stated at the very beginning of Mass Effect 1. No relays = no travel except for VERY, VERY close systems that are next to yours.

No, it isn't.

You can't have the scale or speed of Mass Relay travel with FTL, but the barrier for 'slow' FTL is logistics, not capacity.

Shepard flies across entire nebulas in matters of days.

Actually look it up online it would take HUNDREDS of years at FTL to get from earth to the nearest Star. Oh and if u like the end great but it is a broken story and broken ending. Dont believe me? Actually watch this:  
And then tell me what u Honestly think of the end of ME3 but u must actually WATCH the whole thing not just blindly defend the ending

Er, don't think you realize just how bloody fast ME FTL is...

From the codex in ME3 and Ashley in ME1, FTL is about 12-15 light years per day...Assuming no worries about logistics (and this is the real problem), a ME ship can cross the galaxy in 28 years.

That is crazy fast speed...

Assuming that the relays didn't blow up the home systems, all it means is that you no longer would casually go from Tuchanka in the morning to the citadel in the afternoon and be in Thessia by the evening..

then they are not traveling at the speed of light they are somehow applying Ezzo to it to get higher speeds but with no more ezzo this cannot be done anymore. Look the Speed of light is the speed of light it doesnt change cuz u want it to to support the abortion that is the ending

[savionen]

On the subject of travel, don't forget they also need fuel and food.... 99.99999999% of the galaxy is empty, I really doubt there's many fuel depots in the middle of nowhere.

If a Quarian liveship is lucky they might be able to get back home in 50-100 years since they can grow their own food. They'd have to stop often for maintenance, a ship wouldn't be able to just constantly FTL for 20 years straight.

It'd be impossible for there to be enough food and fuel for everyone to get back to their respective planets.

Earth is also half dead and overpopulated as it is. Many planets also get their goods from colonies who they are no longer able to trade with, and so forth.

Modifié par savionen, 01 avril 2012 - 04:08 .

[Barict78]

All this is irrelevant anyway they promised us Closure not weeks of speculation. If the Game box had said "this will not wrap up shepards story it will leave the end open for fan speculation for all time" then most wouldnt have actually bought the game anyways.

[OhoniX]

Aside from the fact that this isn't really true seeing as the game plays fast and loose with the dimensions of the galaxy and those nebula are just pretty backdrops.... a nebula isn't indicative of travel over true interstellar distances.

The horsehead nebula is 13 light years across. The galaxy is 100,000 light years + across. Say it takes 5 days, optimistically, to cross the nebula - that would mean it would take 100 years minimum to cross the galxy - assuming you could get your hands on enough eezo for the trip. Which you couldn't, because it's too rare, and would be in even higher demand now.

And as has been said, the codex of the story itself implies the situation is much worse than that. Interstellar travel would be generational, largely impractical. If you can't get eezo you're restricted to sub-light speeds because the mass effect is needed to achieve FTL. For those in the Sol system with only military resources, and in systems now dependent on interstellar trade, it is a death sentence.

The codex listed speed for standard, non-Relay FTL is "a dozen light years per day." Given the size of the milky way, that means a ship could travel from one edge to the opposite side in roughly 30 years. There are 22 stars within a day's travel of Earth at that speed. There are over 50 stars within a day and a half of Earth. It shouldn't be terribly difficult to leapfrog from system to system through the Local Cluster.

Also, from what I've heard around these boards, Eezo is not spent as fuel, they only need a certain fixed amount of it to engage FTL, which they already have, and what is actually "burnt", requiring refueling, is just standard combustibles like Tritium, which is a fairly common element in the universe that they could find easily enough along the way. They can probably colect quite a bit of it from Jupiter alone.

[Tleining]

Barict78 wrote...

then they are not traveling at the speed of light they are somehow applying Ezzo to it to get higher speeds but with no more ezzo this cannot be done anymore. Look the Speed of light is the speed of light it doesnt change cuz u want it to to support the abortion that is the ending

uh, actually, the Math works out. They use FTL, Faster than Light. So yes, in theory, going along with the established Lore of the ME-Universe, you could travel between Earth and Thessia using FTL.
Two Problems: Fuel and Drive Charge. And so far, the Drive Charge seems to be whats preventing Spacetravel without Relays. And a Solution for that would turn the ME-Universe into Star Trek.

[Qutayba]

We don't know for sure. But the entire reason Shepard is in prison at the beginning of the story is that he blew up a relay and decimated a star system. Even without the Arrival DLC, every time the subject of destroying relays is brought up (like in background banter on the Citadel), it is tied to destruction of the system. If BioWare had not intended for us to assume total destruction, they needed to provide some information somewhere that indicates otherwise.

[Barict78]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

Actually look it up online it would take HUNDREDS of years at FTL to get from earth to the nearest Star.

The nearest star is a little over four light years away. It has been previously established that trips of 12 light years a day are as common as modern domestic air travel is today. Sorry, but you're wrong.

Oh and if u like the end great but it is a broken story and broken ending. Dont believe me? Actually watch this:  
And then tell me what u Honestly think of the end of ME3 but u must actually WATCH the whole thing not just blindly defend the ending

Nobody here is blindly defending the ending. This thread is about whether everyone's assumptions about whether everything is destroyed in the ending are correct or not. Please read the thread before posting a link to your half-hour video that nobody can be bothered to watch.

How is it my fault if you choose to live in Ignorance and not watch the video? ANd why wont u watch it? Scared you may learn something about proper story telling? or are u afraid it will invalidate UR vision of the end? either way it shouldnt be left to Speculation we should have been given the closure promised at the least

[Bleachrude]

Why would the relays have anything to do with eezo?

Again, travel IN a cluster is not going to be a problem..Someone earlier mentioned the horsehead nebula is 13 ly across...This is literally a day's trip for any ME ship.

The issue is travel BETWEEN clusters

[Barict78]

Tleining wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

then they are not traveling at the speed of light they are somehow applying Ezzo to it to get higher speeds but with no more ezzo this cannot be done anymore. Look the Speed of light is the speed of light it doesnt change cuz u want it to to support the abortion that is the ending

uh, actually, the Math works out. They use FTL, Faster than Light. So yes, in theory, going along with the established Lore of the ME-Universe, you could travel between Earth and Thessia using FTL.
Two Problems: Fuel and Drive Charge. And so far, the Drive Charge seems to be whats preventing Spacetravel without Relays. And a Solution for that would turn the ME-Universe into Star Trek.

So now we are speculating as to HOW much faster than light they can travel at? See this is the problem in a nut shell we shouldnt have to speculate about theses things in the 1st place

[devwild]

my Aim is True wrote...
Yeah you can see it from the galaxy map, that's pretty big.  And Joker was having to outrun the shockwave, which makes me assume it is destructive.

This in itself pretty much proves that debating the science too much is pointless. You wouldn't be able to "see" the explosion through the galaxy for hundreds of thousands of years and not at that speed. The shockwaves visibly expand from the citadel and mass relay, but are travelling at tremendous FTL speed from the galaxy map. The Normandy shot also implies a sublight or near-light-speed chase. From the nitpicky perspective, this is just one more reason the ending falls apart, and you just can't take it too seriously. If it were realistic and consistent, the reapers could get away. If it's an FTL shockwave that affects technology, the damage would be profound, no matter how "special" it is.

Then there's the fact that for some unknown reason, if your war assetts aren't high enough, it torches organic life too.

It's all pretty pointless to debate, because in the end it's broken whichever way you look at it.

[Fliprot]

Because they told us so in the DLC they made based totally around that premise.

Modifié par Fliprot, 01 avril 2012 - 04:17 .

[Applepie_Svk]

There is two ways:
Blow of Relays as was blow from Alpha Relay, this is the instant death for all systems

Second :
Is destroy only for Relays, all races will be in one moment cut off the traffic, trade, food supply, eezo and minerals supply.
Survivors remeaning on homeworlds will be dead almost for sure:
Palawen - ashes - a lot of dead, rubbles
Surkesh - under siedge, probably most untouched world from war after Rannoch
Rannoch - free of Reaper forces, but Quarians are cut off their fleets which could take a lot of their population stucked on earth
Thessia - ashes - holocaust, rubbles maybe greatest hit (i don´t think there is any survivor, all what´s remain is now on surviving colonies and Earth)
Earth - ravaged by war - now is home for few races which are stuck on this planet, which is worst some of the race will die on starvation.
Tuchanka - ravaged by ancient wars, genophage and in the end Reapers aswell - Now is leader stuck on the Earth, cured Krogans could be leaded by wise matriarch Eva or some bloodthirsty bastard which turn this planet once again to big battlefield.

RESUME:
Most of races will be tear apart by destroying the trafic from Relay network, some will dissapear forever. Most ravaged nations are Humans, Assari, Turians and Batarians ... so lol YES it is a DARK AGE ...

[Bleachrude]

Barict78 wrote...

Tleining wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

then they are not traveling at the speed of light they are somehow applying Ezzo to it to get higher speeds but with no more ezzo this cannot be done anymore. Look the Speed of light is the speed of light it doesnt change cuz u want it to to support the abortion that is the ending

uh, actually, the Math works out. They use FTL, Faster than Light. So yes, in theory, going along with the established Lore of the ME-Universe, you could travel between Earth and Thessia using FTL.
Two Problems: Fuel and Drive Charge. And so far, the Drive Charge seems to be whats preventing Spacetravel without Relays. And a Solution for that would turn the ME-Universe into Star Trek.

So now we are speculating as to HOW much faster than light they can travel at? See this is the problem in a nut shell we shouldnt have to speculate about theses things in the 1st place

huh?:blink:

ME has ALWAYS had FTL outside of the relays...what are you talking about...

[Barict78]

Bleachrude wrote...

Why would the relays have anything to do with eezo?

Again, travel IN a cluster is not going to be a problem..Someone earlier mentioned the horsehead nebula is 13 ly across...This is literally a day's trip for any ME ship.

The issue is travel BETWEEN clusters

Seriously? did u really ask that? THe relays Wouldnt even function with out Element Zero CUz Element Zero CREATES the Mass Effect fields. ANd yes i agree the main issue is travel outside of the nebula u are currently in

[legaldinho]

NGC1300 wrote...

title says it all. How do you know for sure that the destruction of the mass relay will destroy everything? I know you got an idea from The Arrival, but that was an asteroid, in the endings it was the crucible's energy. How do you know the consequences are the same if the destruction was caused by totally different things?

and I'm pretty sure nobody knows completely what the energy from the crucible can actually do.

so why people are so certain that it must kill everything?

been seeing this a lot, so I'm just asking.

I'm absolutely with the OP. At the end of Arrival you see the supernova. At the ending of ME3, you don't. They could have expained it better, sure. That goes for a lot of the ending. But I don't think it's right to assume that the systems go nova as a result.

[Ashilana]

NGC1300 wrote...
so why people are so certain that it must kill everything?

When a narrative gives you an example (the relays blowing up in arrival) and then later shows the same event happening, but then cuts away... the audience fills in the gap with a repetition of what they have already seen.