223 réponses à ce sujet

[Bleachrude]

Barict78 wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Why would the relays have anything to do with eezo?

Again, travel IN a cluster is not going to be a problem..Someone earlier mentioned the horsehead nebula is 13 ly across...This is literally a day's trip for any ME ship.

The issue is travel BETWEEN clusters

Seriously? did u really ask that? THe relays Wouldnt even function with out Element Zero CUz Element Zero CREATES the Mass Effect fields. ANd yes i agree the main issue is travel outside of the nebula u are currently in

Yes I know the relays have eezo but why would the destruction of the relays affect eezo OUTSIDE of the relays themselves?

[Orthodox Infidel]

Barict78 wrote...

Its not as if The Speed of light can be changed to suit your argument it is a setg number ME or not and yes it would take hundreds of years to reach any of the planents u think may somehow be alive still after the Relays explode. If nothing else think of the galatic map and how far the stars are from earth, Thessia for example it would take several lifetimes to get from earth to thessia u cant just say the speed of light is faster cuz it fits ur vision of the end its a SET number light travels at a set speed it does not have AFTERBURNERS.

I'm not saying that. The only way you could claim I'm saying that is if you're trying to be deliberately obtuse. I will however, reply to your argument and break things down simply for the benefit of other people who may be legitimately confused.

A light year is a unit of distance. It represents the distance that light travels in one year.

FTL stands for Faster Than Light. If something is travelling faster than the speed of light, it means that the time it takes to go the distance of a light year takes less than one year. Ships in the fictional Mass Effect universe travel faster than the speed of light all the time without the use of mass relays. You can read about FTL in the Mass Effect universe here: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/FTL, or fire up any game and read the codex in it. 

It has been previously established within the Mass Effect universe that speeds of twelve light years a day are common. Using this number we can make some informed guesses on how long travel will take to various places.

The nearest star to our own is Alpha Centauri. According to Wikipedia, it is 4.24 light years away. Using the previously established speed I mentioned earlier, (4.24 ly) / (12 ly/day) = 0.353 days or 8.4 hours. The diameter of the galaxy is between 100,000 and 120,000 light years. (100,000) / (12 ly/day) = 8,333 days, or 22.83 years. (120,000) / (12 ly/day) = 10,000 days or 27.39 years.

Is that clearer now to you?

Modifié par Orthodox Infidel, 01 avril 2012 - 04:21 .

[Hobbyman]

NGC1300 wrote...

title says it all. How do you know for sure that the destruction of the mass relay will destroy everything? I know you got an idea from The Arrival, but that was an asteroid, in the endings it was the crucible's energy. How do you know the consequences are the same if the destruction was caused by totally different things?

and I'm pretty sure nobody knows completely what the energy from the crucible can actually do.

so why people are so certain that it must kill everything?

been seeing this a lot, so I'm just asking.

Because it is accepted as canon, in Arrival DLC, that destroying a Mass Relay also destroys the system in which it resides. Since there is nothing to disprove this fact in the case of the ending, then we safely assume that the original theory stands as true.

In the case that the designers believed that the RGB explosions are somehow different, then they should have taken the time to explain this in the course of the main plot and not leave it to our imagination, which would naturally be led to believe the original assumption in the Arrival DLC.

[legaldinho]

Fliprot wrote...

Because they told us so in the DLC they made based totally around that premise.

They told us if we destroyed the relay with an asteroid impact it would go nova... and we saw it, it did.

Here something else- supposedly something to do with the tech that created the relays and the citadel - is causing them to break. And we don't see a nova. You can say "well, that is a bit abrupt for fans who follow cannon- coudn't you explain?" but you can't say "well it goes nova dur everyone dies". That takes something extraneous to the ending. You're supplying that extra information yourself.

[devwild]

Bleachrude wrote...
Why would the relays have anything to do with eezo?

Because eezo is the basis for how the mass relays work, along with all magical technology in the ME universe.

[devwild]

OhoniX wrote...

The codex listed speed for standard, non-Relay FTL is "a dozen light years per day."

Clearly I missed that, I thought I read something different. Thanks.

[Bleachrude]

devwild wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...
Why would the relays have anything to do with eezo?

Because eezo is the basis for how the mass relays work, along with all magical technology in the ME universe.

*SIGH

I know that but why would destroying the relays affect the eezo that is NOT IN THE RELAYS!!!.

The ships all have eezo core and they should still be ok

That's why I'm asking why does what happen to the relays make any difference to the eezo int h euniverse?

[Barict78]

Bleachrude wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

Tleining wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

then they are not traveling at the speed of light they are somehow applying Ezzo to it to get higher speeds but with no more ezzo this cannot be done anymore. Look the Speed of light is the speed of light it doesnt change cuz u want it to to support the abortion that is the ending

uh, actually, the Math works out. They use FTL, Faster than Light. So yes, in theory, going along with the established Lore of the ME-Universe, you could travel between Earth and Thessia using FTL.
Two Problems: Fuel and Drive Charge. And so far, the Drive Charge seems to be whats preventing Spacetravel without Relays. And a Solution for that would turn the ME-Universe into Star Trek.

So now we are speculating as to HOW much faster than light they can travel at? See this is the problem in a nut shell we shouldnt have to speculate about theses things in the 1st place

huh?:blink:

ME has ALWAYS had FTL outside of the relays...what are you talking about...

OMG dude are u High im not saying they dont have FTL capabilities all im saying is that 1. Light Speed is a set value 2. If they can somehow travel at a speed Greater than the speed of light it would involve Element Zero in some way to make ones ship suddenly able to Exceed the speed of light by such a great degree 3. all this is moot anyways cuz all technology is usless anyways do you really think a ship would continue to be space worthy after its Core exploded? if it can then why does the Normandy crash at all?  Why doesnt the wave hit it damage it and then they just FTL jump to where they want to go? WIth the current endings i seriously doubt anyone is gonna be moving at the speed of light much less Faster than Light anytime in the forseeable future

[OhoniX]

then they are not traveling at the speed of light they are somehow applying Ezzo to it to get higher speeds but with no more ezzo this cannot be done anymore. Look the Speed of light is the speed of light it doesnt change cuz u want it to to support the abortion that is the ending

The Reapers didn't destroy the concept of Eezo, there is still plenty of Eezo around. There's probably quite a bit more in the Sol system than ever before, given that they'd be able to harvest it from the derelict warships and Reaper ships. They would have plenty. And again, at the top listed speeds it wouldn't take forever to get to other worlds. Just based on the distance from edge to edge, and doing some rough guesswork based on the ME galactic map, it looks like you could get from Earth to Tuchanka, Palavan, Novaria, or Eden Prime/Terra Nova in a good bit under five years, Berkenstine, Thessia, or Sur'kesh in under ten, other worlds like Illium or Rannoch would be more in the 20-25 year range though.

[legaldinho]

TekMage wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

title says it all. How do you know for sure that the destruction of the mass relay will destroy everything? I know you got an idea from The Arrival, but that was an asteroid, in the endings it was the crucible's energy. How do you know the consequences are the same if the destruction was caused by totally different things?

and I'm pretty sure nobody knows completely what the energy from the crucible can actually do.

so why people are so certain that it must kill everything?

been seeing this a lot, so I'm just asking.

Because it is accepted as canon, in Arrival DLC, that destroying a Mass Relay also destroys the system in which it resides. Since there is nothing to disprove this fact in the case of the ending, then we safely assume that the original theory stands as true.

In the case that the designers believed that the RGB explosions are somehow different, then they should have taken the time to explain this in the course of the main plot and not leave it to our imagination, which would naturally be led to believe the original assumption in the Arrival DLC.

The first part of your post is misguided: it's accepted as "canon" that an asteroid impact will cause the relay to go nova. And it is shown in arrival dlc to be the case. Well now the canon has to make clear that certain other kinds of destructions- presumably limited to those using the tech that created the mass relays in the first place- do not cause the same nova explosion.

Only the second part of your criticism- that exposition was woefully short in introducing hardcore followers of ME canon to a refined idea of the destruction of the relays- holds true. 

[devwild]

Bleachrude wrote...

Yes I know the relays have eezo but why would the destruction of the relays affect eezo OUTSIDE of the relays themselves?

Sorry, that's not how you phrased it. it wouldn't affect eezo directly, but without the relays it's much harder to get your hands on.

Modifié par devwild, 01 avril 2012 - 04:26 .

[Vhalkyrie]

Qutayba wrote...

We don't know for sure. But the entire reason Shepard is in prison at the beginning of the story is that he blew up a relay and decimated a star system. Even without the Arrival DLC, every time the subject of destroying relays is brought up (like in background banter on the Citadel), it is tied to destruction of the system. If BioWare had not intended for us to assume total destruction, they needed to provide some information somewhere that indicates otherwise.

^

People just want to wave away Arrival with space magic.  Blowing up a mass relay destroys the star system.  It is too horrific to even contemplate doing it on purpose.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Barict78 wrote...

How is it my fault if you choose to live in Ignorance and not watch the video? ANd why wont u watch it? Scared you may learn something about proper story telling? or are u afraid it will invalidate UR vision of the end? either way it shouldnt be left to Speculation we should have been given the closure promised at the least

I have never said that I like the ending. I hate the ending. Even a cursory glance at my prior posts would tell you this. Nobody here has stated that they like the ending. I am on record as saying that the ending sucks so much that it's impossible to know the right reason to hate it (and there are more than one). We're not talking about whether the ending is bad or not in this thread. If you want to talk about those things, please start your own thread or post in one of the many existing threads, ok?

And I don't want to watch the video because I don't want to spend 30 minutes hearing someone say things that I've been reading all month. I'm fully aware of proper story telling, and I've pretty much flat out said in the past that Bioware dropped the ball on storytelling. This thread is not about story telling.

[Bleachrude]

devwild wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Yes I know the relays have eezo but why would the destruction of the relays affect eezo OUTSIDE of the relays themselves?

Sorry, that's not how you phrased it. it wouldn't affect eezo directly, but without the relays it's much harder to get your hands on.

Not really...given where Eezo is usally found (after effect of star going nova/neutron star), finding it has never been a problem. As per codex, MINING it has been the issue...

[LittleTito]

I only assume that without the mass relays, each individual star cluster would be isolated from one another. Not sure about the mass destruction part...

[Barict78]

legaldinho wrote...

Fliprot wrote...

Because they told us so in the DLC they made based totally around that premise.

They told us if we destroyed the relay with an asteroid impact it would go nova... and we saw it, it did.

Here something else- supposedly something to do with the tech that created the relays and the citadel - is causing them to break. And we don't see a nova. You can say "well, that is a bit abrupt for fans who follow cannon- coudn't you explain?" but you can't say "well it goes nova dur everyone dies". That takes something extraneous to the ending. You're supplying that extra information yourself.

Any thing that any of us say id Conjecture at this point the end does not Define anything and the 1st most logical assumption one would make given the information we were presented up to that point is that if the relays blow the solar system goes. To assume otherwise is conjecture and By YOU and is you supplying the extra info YOUR self cuz what we were told up to this point is that A=B or more simply relay blows = Solar System Goes. So to come to ANY conclusion other than that is YOU Supplying The Xtra facts at the end

[Orthodox Infidel]

Vhalkyrie wrote...

Qutayba wrote...

We don't know for sure. But the entire reason Shepard is in prison at the beginning of the story is that he blew up a relay and decimated a star system. Even without the Arrival DLC, every time the subject of destroying relays is brought up (like in background banter on the Citadel), it is tied to destruction of the system. If BioWare had not intended for us to assume total destruction, they needed to provide some information somewhere that indicates otherwise.

^

People just want to wave away Arrival with space magic.  Blowing up a mass relay destroys the star system.  It is too horrific to even contemplate doing it on purpose.

To be fair, the writers seemed to have wanted to wave away the whole trilogy with space magic. It's a total writing fail.

[OhoniX]

all this is moot anyways cuz all technology is usless anyways do you really think a ship would continue to be space worthy after its Core exploded? if it can then why does the Normandy crash at all? Why doesnt the wave hit it damage it and then they just FTL jump to where they want to go?

Nothing destroyed any Eezo cores. The relays were destroyed, not the cores on individual ships, not any Eezo anywhere. All the Eezo is fine. The Normandy crashed because it was in mid-relay transit when one of the relay beams hit ti from behind, which was an enormous wave of energy. This would obviously have a catastrophic effect on the ship and knocked it out of relay transit, but it didn't cause the Eezo core to spontaneously explode. We don't know what the state of the Normandy's drive systems are in the end, but clearly the ship has crashed. Whether it could even be made spaceworthy again is an open question, although the safe money would be that it's toast without outside help.

[Quietness]

The problem is when you show the viewer one and only thing on what happens when a mass relay blows up, there isnt really any reason to believe otherwise. There was nothing said that would tell us that when it blows up that something else happens. Shepard blindly accepted, and we're left with blowing up Mass Relays.

Using headcannon =/= fact till supported by the story. We are not shown a system that is near a relay (and jungle planet we have no idea where it is in proximity to a relay, more resulting in having to guess/ use headcannon)

[legaldinho]

Vhalkyrie wrote...
Blowing up a mass relay destroys the star system.

This is based on Arrival DLC.

Vhalkyrie shoulda wrote...
Blowing up a mass relay with an asteroid impact destroys the star system. Using the technology which created the relays, this can be done without destroying the star system.

This is based on what happens in the game. Arrival DLC happens in the game. The ending does too. Ergo, canon has been enriched, and generalised, absolute statements like yours no longer apply. The key difference is in Arrival we see the Nova explosion, and in the endings we don't. We just see the relay break up.

Modifié par legaldinho, 01 avril 2012 - 04:32 .

[Barict78]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Barict78 wrote...

How is it my fault if you choose to live in Ignorance and not watch the video? ANd why wont u watch it? Scared you may learn something about proper story telling? or are u afraid it will invalidate UR vision of the end? either way it shouldnt be left to Speculation we should have been given the closure promised at the least

I have never said that I like the ending. I hate the ending. Even a cursory glance at my prior posts would tell you this. Nobody here has stated that they like the ending. I am on record as saying that the ending sucks so much that it's impossible to know the right reason to hate it (and there are more than one). We're not talking about whether the ending is bad or not in this thread. If you want to talk about those things, please start your own thread or post in one of the many existing threads, ok?

And I don't want to watch the video because I don't want to spend 30 minutes hearing someone say things that I've been reading all month. I'm fully aware of proper story telling, and I've pretty much flat out said in the past that Bioware dropped the ball on storytelling. This thread is not about story telling.

Pardon me for not Lurking ur Profile and reading everything u have ever posted i thot u would prefer it that way... And also Pardon me for linking a well put together video for people to watch i was under the immpression i could post what i wanted to within the guidlines of the Forum Rules which doesnt say anywhere "One Must stary on Topic at all times and Never Deviate from said topic or you will be banned"
In reality we have the same opinion basically so it serves Zero purpose for us to argue when we both hole the same views so im sorry if my posting of a video offended you.

[Hobbyman]

legaldinho wrote...

The first part of your post is misguided: it's accepted as "canon" that an asteroid impact will cause the relay to go nova. And it is shown in arrival dlc to be the case. Well now the canon has to make clear that certain other kinds of destructions- presumably limited to those using the tech that created the mass relays in the first place- do not cause the same nova explosion.

Only the second part of your criticism- that exposition was woefully short in introducing hardcore followers of ME canon to a refined idea of the destruction of the relays- holds true. 

I have been in the same discussion before with another poster about the difference in explosion situations etc. While I cannot disprove these claims I will have to accept what is presented to me as fact from those who had the original idea.

In accordance with this line of thought, unless the designers specifically say that any energy unleashed from the crucible that destroys the Relays, does so in a contained manner so as not to affect the system it resides in, then I will, correctly and soundly, assume that the systems are obliterated.

This reasoning follows suit with the Occam's Razor theorem which states, in short, that  "other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one."

I know that the belief that all systems are destroyed just spells out "bad writing" on the part of the designers, but this is exactly what happened, probably, which only adds to the rest of the badly written occurences of the game.

Modifié par TekMage, 01 avril 2012 - 04:36 .

[BadlyBrowned]

NGC1300 wrote...

title says it all. How do you know for sure that the destruction of the mass relay will destroy everything? I know you got an idea from The Arrival, but that was an asteroid, in the endings it was the crucible's energy. How do you know the consequences are the same if the destruction was caused by totally different things?

and I'm pretty sure nobody knows completely what the energy from the crucible can actually do.

so why people are so certain that it must kill everything?

been seeing this a lot, so I'm just asking.

Look at all the light output the replays give off. That alone should be enough to wipte out systems. 

[Wolven_Soul]

What difference does it make if it was an asteroid or the beam?  An asteroid is not going to make the destruction of a relay any bigger.  It can only affect the surrounding area.  It is the force or energy of the relay that causes the devestation of the system, not the asteroid.

I suppose they could say the beam shut the relays down instead of destroying them, but it sure looked like explosions.

[Tleining]

legaldinho wrote...

They told us if we destroyed the relay with an asteroid impact it would go nova... and we saw it, it did.

Here something else- supposedly something to do with the tech that created the relays and the citadel - is causing them to break. And we don't see a nova. You can say "well, that is a bit abrupt for fans who follow cannon- coudn't you explain?" but you can't say "well it goes nova dur everyone dies". That takes something extraneous to the ending. You're supplying that extra information yourself.

right, because clearly those bright R/G/B Explosions stretching over the entire Galaxy are something completely different from the Explosion in Arrival and are completely harmless.

Must have played a different game