223 réponses à ce sujet

[Shiran]

Reality is pretty damn simple. All 3 games are riddled with things that "do not make sense" or go without answered etc etc. But people latch on onto ending because those were not to their satisfaction, and spend money sending out hatecakes, and imagining worse possible outcomes without any supporting evidence.

Yes, for the next few decades (centuries?) it's Galactic Dark Age, which is by the way perfect setting for more games, most people do not want to play My Little Pony Island Adventure. Rather, have Dark brooding remnants of multi species Galactic Empire trying to rebuild itself.

But Shepard complete his mission, Cycle has been stopped one way or another. And if sufficient war assets were collected than Earth is salvageable and Normandy crew survived.

[metawanderer]

From my understand of the lore in the game, every race is dependent upon the Mass Relays. Without it, none of the Quarins or Turians stuck on Earth would have any food to eat becuse of their body makeup. Medical supplies for different races would also be cutoff and their would no galactic communication. I don't believe the explosions of the relays at the end of Mass Effect 3 directly killed anyone but indireclty I believe the explosions would cause many deaths due to lack of necessary supplies. Sad because I like the Turians and the Quarians.

Modifié par metawanderer, 01 avril 2012 - 05:37 .

[Evil Minion]

metawanderer wrote...

From my understand of the lore in the game, every race is dependent upon the Mass Relays. Without it, none of the Quarins or Turians stuck on Earth would have any food to eat becuse of their body makeup. Medical supplies for different races would also be cutoff and their would no galactic communication. I don't believe the explosions of the relays at the end of Mass Effect 3 directly killed anyone but indireclty I believe the explosions would cause many deaths due to lack of necessary supplies. Sad because I like the Turians and the Quarians.

Obviously, they survived before, and they can survive again.

They still have FTL and scads of other technology at their disposal.

Many will die, but not everyone, and not necessarily even the majority.

[sinatron]

Wolven_Soul wrote...

That is a fair assumption, but here is another fair assumption.  The relays were created by the Reapers who are much more evolved than any of the races that had anything to do with the crucible.  So it is hard to fathom anything being able to fry such a highly advanced piece of technology.

My point being, we do not know until it is better explained.

That is one of the main problems with these endings.  Nothing is explained to us, and previously in this serious, everything has been explained to us.  I wonder if Bioware is starting to regret the codex yet.  If we did not have the codex, then this arguement would not be nearly as heated, if it existed at all.

My biggest issue is that so many people scream "OMG WE SAW IT EXPLODE BEFORE SO IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN" without looking at the differences in situation though.
I mean, we had lots of moments in life where something we thought was a fact was disproven or explained in a way that it can exist in several ways.

I.e. water. Water is a liquid. But when winter came, it suddenly became a solid. Early humans must have been confused too. Where did the water go? Why did it change? Why is it suddenly solid? And why did it turn liquid later on?

Just saying that we should look at the differences in situations and see why there's a change in earlier observed behavior.
Unlike real life, we can't do testing and find a "real truth" cause it's all based on writing of a few people and we won't know until the next Mass Effect DLC or Game, but it's better to keep an open mind than to shut it down entirely.

Modifié par sinatron, 01 avril 2012 - 05:42 .

[Wolven_Soul]

Shiran wrote...

Reality is pretty damn simple. All 3 games are riddled with things that "do not make sense" or go without answered etc etc. But people latch on onto ending because those were not to their satisfaction, and spend money sending out hatecakes, and imagining worse possible outcomes without any supporting evidence.

Yes, for the next few decades (centuries?) it's Galactic Dark Age, which is by the way perfect setting for more games, most people do not want to play My Little Pony Island Adventure. Rather, have Dark brooding remnants of multi species Galactic Empire trying to rebuild itself.

But Shepard complete his mission, Cycle has been stopped one way or another. And if sufficient war assets were collected than Earth is salvageable and Normandy crew survived.

The first two games had to leave questions unsanswered, they were the first two games of a trilogy.  This game ended it.  It needs to wrap up everything currenly involved in the story.  It did not do that.

And I am really getting tired of hearing people generlize all retakers as demanding a happy ending.  Do I want a happy ending?  Yeah sure, real life is pretty damned ****ty, I like my fiction to have happy endings.  That is not to say that I think the series absolutely has to have one.  I would be happy with a bitter sweet ending as long as it made sense.

[legaldinho]

It would be harder to generalise the retake movement if its adherents did not slavishly insist that the ending meant "all relay solar systems blew up, dur" or words to that effect. Overstating your case never earns you respect.

[sinatron]

legaldinho wrote...

It would be harder to generalise the retake movement if its adherents did not slavishly insist that the ending meant "all relay solar systems blew up, dur" or words to that effect. Overstating your case never earns you respect.

You should stop generalising. We're not all like that. All monkeys are animals, but not all animals are monkeys.

[Wolven_Soul]

sinatron wrote...

Wolven_Soul wrote...

That is a fair assumption, but here is another fair assumption.  The relays were created by the Reapers who are much more evolved than any of the races that had anything to do with the crucible.  So it is hard to fathom anything being able to fry such a highly advanced piece of technology.

My point being, we do not know until it is better explained.

That is one of the main problems with these endings.  Nothing is explained to us, and previously in this serious, everything has been explained to us.  I wonder if Bioware is starting to regret the codex yet.  If we did not have the codex, then this arguement would not be nearly as heated, if it existed at all.

My biggest issue is that so many people scream "OMG WE SAW IT EXPLODE BEFORE SO IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN" without looking at the differences in situation though.
I mean, we had lots of moments in life where something we thought was a fact was disproven or explained in a way that it can exist in several ways.

I.e. water. Water is a liquid. But when winter came, it suddenly became a solid. Early humans must have been confused too. Where did the water go? Why did it change? Why is it suddenly solid? And why did it turn liquid later on?

Just saying that we should look at the differences in situations and see why there's a change in earlier observed behavior.
Unlike real life, we can't do testing and find a "real truth" cause it's all based on writing of a few people and we won't know until the next Mass Effect DLC or Game, but it's better to keep an open mind than to shut it down entirely.

That's true, this is based on the writing of others.  And in this case, those writers did a lazy, half assed job.  I said it before, and I will say it again.  I liked having everything in this game explained to me so well.  I liked reading about it.  That is why I cannot accept this ending as is.

I have an open mind, but Bioware injured my faith in them with these endings.  Most especially because they did a complete 180 of what they advertised.

[sinatron]

Wolven_Soul wrote...

That's true, this is based on the writing of others.  And in this case, those writers did a lazy, half assed job.  I said it before, and I will say it again.  I liked having everything in this game explained to me so well.  I liked reading about it.  That is why I cannot accept this ending as is.

I have an open mind, but Bioware injured my faith in them with these endings.  Most especially because they did a complete 180 of what they advertised.

That I can entirely understand.

[Shiran]

metawanderer wrote...

From my understand of the lore in the game, every race is dependent upon the Mass Relays. Without it, none of the Quarins or Turians stuck on Earth would have any food to eat becuse of their body makeup. Medical supplies for different races would also be cutoff and their would no galactic communication. I don't believe the explosions of the relays at the end of Mass Effect 3 directly killed anyone but indireclty I believe the explosions would cause many deaths due to lack of necessary supplies. Sad because I like the Turians and the Quarians.

"Many Deaths" were already caused when Reapers wiped / huskizied entire planets. Heck, at the point of Battle of the Citadel Quarians are probably better off than any other race, because they weren't even fighting reapers, they just had their little quarrel with domestic help. 

Having said that, you will notice that after unloading their civilian population on Rannoch, their brought in their nearly empty weaponized Lifeships with them. Lifeships that are quite capable of growing dextro food. If Turians ask nicely, and use word "please" quarians might be nice enough to give them some dextro-maise and cocoa.

[Wolven_Soul]

legaldinho wrote...

It would be harder to generalise the retake movement if its adherents did not slavishly insist that the ending meant "all relay solar systems blew up, dur" or words to that effect. Overstating your case never earns you respect.

We insist because it is what we know.  Until we get an explanation saying otherwise, we have no reason to think that the relays should not have destroyed the systems that they were in.  And by that I mean lore wise. 

Look, I can see where your coming from, I really can.  But I cannot agree with you...yet...because we have not been given the explanations needed that could make your assumptions valid.

[Evil Minion]

Yeah, waaayyy too much left open to interpretation.

My initial impression of the relays getting blowed-up was that in "Arrival," there was no "magic color wave."

In the ME3 endings, there is a "magic color wave."

This makes me suspect that the "colored waves" are significant somehow. But without any evidence, I can't say for certain.

Modifié par Evil Minion, 01 avril 2012 - 05:53 .

[legaldinho]

Wolven_Soul wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

It would be harder to generalise the retake movement if its adherents did not slavishly insist that the ending meant "all relay solar systems blew up, dur" or words to that effect. Overstating your case never earns you respect.

We insist because it is what we know.  Until we get an explanation saying otherwise, we have no reason to think that the relays should not have destroyed the systems that they were in.  And by that I mean lore wise. 

Look, I can see where your coming from, I really can.  But I cannot agree with you...yet...because we have not been given the explanations needed that could make your assumptions valid.

Okay, I can get on board with that- as a consumer pressure tactic. I'm a consumer after all, and I hope the retake movement gets some more content which addresses the ambiguities in the story- crucially, for free.

[Barict78]

Wolven_Soul wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

It would be harder to generalise the retake movement if its adherents did not slavishly insist that the ending meant "all relay solar systems blew up, dur" or words to that effect. Overstating your case never earns you respect.

We insist because it is what we know.  Until we get an explanation saying otherwise, we have no reason to think that the relays should not have destroyed the systems that they were in.  And by that I mean lore wise. 

Look, I can see where your coming from, I really can.  But I cannot agree with you...yet...because we have not been given the explanations needed that could make your assumptions valid.

Stated Simply and Accurately

[Yttrian]

We don't know they destroy all life; the canon states that their destruction is imilar to a supernova.

We understand the energy release is probably "different"; but this isn't explained.

[Shiran]

Evil Minion wrote...

Yeah, waaayyy too much left open to interpretation.

My initial impression of the relays getting blowed-up was that in "Arrival," there was no "magic color wave."

In the ME3 endings, there is a "magic color wave."

This makes me suspect that the "colored waves" are significant somehow. But without any evidence, I can't say for certain.

But it is NOT open to interpretation? In Arrival you smash and Asteroid into relay and it blows up to kill Battarians. In ME3, almost all Battarins are either dead, or are busy eating their fallen comrades. So there is no need for another Battarian jihad. Therefore relay do not destroy any systems, just cause mild interruptions to space ships during FTL travel. 
It is shown that planets are ok (if enough resources were allocated to build Crucible correctly)

[Pissed0ff]

NGC1300 wrote...

title says it all. How do you know for sure that the destruction of the mass relay will destroy everything? I know you got an idea from The Arrival, but that was an asteroid, in the endings it was the crucible's energy. How do you know the consequences are the same if the destruction was caused by totally different things?


Edit::: let me clarify this as I saw some people don't quite get the idea. I'm not saying what hitting the relays matters, all I'm saying is, the relay in Arrival got blatantly hit by an asteroid while the relays in the endings were tampered by the energy of the crucible. It opens the possibities for certain assumptions like the energy from the crucible might negate the destruction force or it might simply be something else and not "explosion" or the energy from the crucible changes the energy released from the relays into some other harmless forms of energy, etc.. that's what I was talking about.

No man, you are the only one who doesn't understand.  It's in the game.  The entire galaxy is ****ed. Worst ending ever.

[Kilethion]

mikeaj1024 wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

mikeaj1024 wrote...

The problem isnt confined to the destruction they may have caused. Its that the relays network was vital to the galaxy. The current societies do not have the ability to rebuild the relay network, and without it they are trapped in whatever cluster they currently reside.

but don't they have FTL engines? two of the endings you got reapers on your side. With destroy ending you still have probably millions of capable quarians/turians/humans. Even for the worst case, you cose destroy and decimated the quarians, weren't humans and turians enough to recreate FTL engines? Since from my understandings, even turians got the best fleets in the galaxy?

FTL Drives require fuel and the trip from cluster to cluster is almost impossible with current tech.  The reapers drives were more advanced and not only could they move twice as fast but they were self sustaining.

The reapers dont become your puppets in any of the endings.  Even with control all you do is send them away.  Not away to rebuild.

We know that different people were experimenting with Reaper tech throughout the ME series, so who's to say they couldn't reverse engineer a Reaper's drive core?  You would have a lot of dead Reapers to choose from (assuming you killed them).

Modifié par Kilethion, 01 avril 2012 - 06:11 .

[Emberwake]

Shiran wrote...

Evil Minion wrote...

Yeah, waaayyy too much left open to interpretation.

My initial impression of the relays getting blowed-up was that in "Arrival," there was no "magic color wave."

In the ME3 endings, there is a "magic color wave."

This makes me suspect that the "colored waves" are significant somehow. But without any evidence, I can't say for certain.

But it is NOT open to interpretation? In Arrival you smash and Asteroid into relay and it blows up to kill Battarians. In ME3, almost all Battarins are either dead, or are busy eating their fallen comrades. So there is no need for another Battarian jihad. Therefore relay do not destroy any systems, just cause mild interruptions to space ships during FTL travel. 
It is shown that planets are ok (if enough resources were allocated to build Crucible correctly)

There are dozens of ways to explain the events of the ending in a way that makes sense. Some of the suggestions I've read are actually very good. But they aren't in the game.

There is only one outcome known when mass relays are destroyed. Could there be another? Sure! But if you don't lay it in, you're not doing your job as a storyteller.

At some point suring the THIRTY OR MORE HOURS preceding these events, it could have been established that the mass relays could potentially be deactivated or destroyed without catastrophic consequences. SHOW US. Have your characters speculate to guide the audience's speculation.

[Teacher50]

What everyone here is really discussing is "Massive Plot Holes" in the Mass Effect Universe! Lol

[Wolven_Soul]

legaldinho wrote...

Wolven_Soul wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

It would be harder to generalise the retake movement if its adherents did not slavishly insist that the ending meant "all relay solar systems blew up, dur" or words to that effect. Overstating your case never earns you respect.

We insist because it is what we know.  Until we get an explanation saying otherwise, we have no reason to think that the relays should not have destroyed the systems that they were in.  And by that I mean lore wise. 

Look, I can see where your coming from, I really can.  But I cannot agree with you...yet...because we have not been given the explanations needed that could make your assumptions valid.

Okay, I can get on board with that- as a consumer pressure tactic. I'm a consumer after all, and I hope the retake movement gets some more content which addresses the ambiguities in the story- crucially, for free.

Yay we have an accord, lol. 

[TheLostGenius]

Archereon wrote...

Plus, it's quite possible the destroyed Citadel, which, based on the conduit's orientation, the fact that it's in London, and the fact the geosynchronous orbits are only possible over the equator means it's suspended over Earth with mass effect fields in an artificially sustained orbit, meaning it could hit Earth at wll over 10km/s. While it wouldn't be on the same scale as the impact that killed the dinosaurs (about 1/1000th of the yield), it still would have the kinetic energy of 20,000 Tsar Bombas combined.

This impact would turn the seas to acid, darken the skies, and tuen the air to poison. Doomsday stuff.

Science Fiction VS Science Fact

Very interesting.

[NGC1300]

Pissed0ff wrote...

NGC1300 wrote...

title says it all. How do you know for sure that the destruction of the mass relay will destroy everything? I know you got an idea from The Arrival, but that was an asteroid, in the endings it was the crucible's energy. How do you know the consequences are the same if the destruction was caused by totally different things?


Edit::: let me clarify this as I saw some people don't quite get the idea. I'm not saying what hitting the relays matters, all I'm saying is, the relay in Arrival got blatantly hit by an asteroid while the relays in the endings were tampered by the energy of the crucible. It opens the possibities for certain assumptions like the energy from the crucible might negate the destruction force or it might simply be something else and not "explosion" or the energy from the crucible changes the energy released from the relays into some other harmless forms of energy, etc.. that's what I was talking about.

No man, you are the only one who doesn't understand.  It's in the game.  The entire galaxy is ****ed. Worst ending ever.

apparantly there's a lot of people here who might or might not agree with me but they understand my question. You might be the one who doesn't understand what we are discussing here. Care to re-read? And you're not adding anything productive to the thread. it's been good so far so please keep this "worst ending ever!" kind of thing off here please.

sincerely.

Modifié par NGC1300, 01 avril 2012 - 06:20 .

[Shiran]

Teacher50 wrote...

What everyone here is really discussing is "Massive Plot Holes" in the Mass Effect Universe! Lol

It is just so weird to me that people get hang up on the very finalle, but tend to overlook glaring problems earlier in game.

Let's see:

Shepard ended up in space in leaking space suit, than REENTERED orbit with meteor like flame out and all, but Martin Sheen was able to fully rebuilt him AND somehow fully restore his memories. Oh and helmet helped preserve the brain... during athmospheric reentry and slaming into a planet because those leaky space suits are just that good. The same helmet that Shepard found while exploring Normandy crash site.. Say what?

But that totally ok! But relay not going supernova when they get destroyed in a completely different manner from one time when we destroyed them before? PLOT HOLE!

[Mikeuicus]

Well, it's inferred by the events of Arrival and the codex that a relay's explosion will devastate the system it's in and we see 'em all light up on the galaxy map. The player is given nothing to assume otherwise, ie Starchild could have said "the relays will be destroyed, but leave their systems unharmed" or something along those lines.