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[woodbyte]

EHondaMashButton wrote...

woodbyte wrote...

EHondaMashButton wrote wall of text.

Why is it then that if you have less than 1750 EMS your only choice is the "Destroy" one? [1]
What, the reapers consider you have no chance anyway and don't even bother to trick you?

Lazy ass bots.

edit: added reference.

My last playthrough 2 days ago, my only option was control.  I did no fetch quests and barely any n7.  I'll have to check my TMS, but it was low.  I literally had one ramp going to blue, and the kid said I know you came here to control us.  I couldn't do the other 2.  Take that for what its worth.  My 1st playthrough i did everything and had all options available.

Well if you say so. That reference I made actually has a few things wrong. For instance, they say you need 4000+ EMS to see 3 members coming off the Normandy, and that's just not true. I only had 3300 and saw Joker, Edi and Liara (LI). So it's possible they got other stuff wrong too.

kalle90 wrote...
What does EMS have to do with the availability of choices in the first place?

"You gathered such a massive army I allow you to choose synthesis"?

To me it makes just as much sense to say "You are not worthy, we will not accept you, your only option is "destroy""

 

Yeah, I also think the availability of the 3 choices should never have been tied into the available war assets.
It makes sense for some of the other ending variations, but not much.

Modifié par woodbyte, 02 avril 2012 - 08:17 .

[kalle90]

Arkitekt wrote...

It's bioware way of saying that the "choices matter in the end!!!!"

Yea well after checking out that guide posted earlier I counted there are 18 endings
So we even got 2 extra endings on top of the 16!

I guess it's case closed.

[chester013]

PhotonMaze wrote...

Get of your ****ing high horse. I am a full on atheist and anti-theist. I despise religion and the only truth I accept is science. I hate that people are comparing the indoctrination theory to religions. Do I shape my life around believing the IT? No. Am I absolutely certain it is true? No, but the evidence is very compelling. The IT can be more easily compared to a scientific theory than a religion because there is actual evidence. None of it absolutely proves the theory, but it is all very plausable.

While I cannot say for certain if it's true (no one can yet) the indoctrination theory is very feasible for a few important reasons:

1. Shepard's breath at the end of the game in what looked to be London- This almost certainly means something. Why would Bioware put it in otherwise?
2. The way that the delevopers have recently been acting, it sounds like they have got something big planned and they had it planned before the game was released (See Michael Gamble's tweet)
3. The fact that the end game sequence correlates in many ways with how indoctrination is percieved throughout the series.
4. Shepard isn't himself when talking to the starchild.
5. Countless more reasons.

The point in a theory is that it is a theory!!! No one is claiming to know that the indoctrination theory is true - unlike religious people who claim with absolute certainty that god exists. That is why this is more like a scientific theory. We were waiting patiently on the results.

You just got schooled

[Rasofe]

EHondaMashButton wrote...

TiM


You


Please explain.

Ever since Shepard was ressurected his eyes were actually cybernetic. If he's Renegade and doesn't get the surgery, it shows. My renegade unsurgeoned shepard had red eyes in this scene, not blue.
TIM always had cybernetic eyes. They're not necessarily a sign of indoctrination.

[DarkShenX]

Rasofe wrote...

EHondaMashButton wrote...

TiM


You


Please explain.

Ever since Shepard was ressurected his eyes were actually cybernetic. If he's Renegade and doesn't get the surgery, it shows. My renegade unsurgeoned shepard had red eyes in this scene, not blue.
TIM always had cybernetic eyes. They're not necessarily a sign of indoctrination.

TIM was expose to a Reaper artifact..on Mass Effect Evolution (comic)

[Izhalezan]

DarkShenX wrote...


TIM was expose to a Reaper artifact..on Mass Effect Evolution (comic)

Which is where he got the eyes, he had normal humie eyes before that.

[Rasofe]

Garrus was onboard a Reaper at one point.
He indoctrinated too?

[DarkShenX]

Izhalezan wrote...

DarkShenX wrote...


TIM was expose to a Reaper artifact..on Mass Effect Evolution (comic)

Which is where he got the eyes, he had normal humie eyes before that.

Exactly

[kalle90]

How about waiting for the announcement/upcoming ending DLC?

If we end up not having indoctrination, people can still keep speculating that "Bioware did it wrong, retconned their own story", but the theory dies down.
If we end up having indoctrination, people who object are still going to complain about plotholes, but it happened anyway.

But no I don't think Garrus has been nearly as exposed to reaper tech as Shepard and TIM have. Actually thinking how much Shepard has endured it would be quite weird if it had absolutely no effect on him.

[Rasofe]

Does Shepard get the TIM eyes if he does the greenexplosion ending? I heard IndocTheory says all options except Destroy lead to complete indoctrination.

You have to ask yourself though, if everything from Harbinger on is just an Indoctrination, and Shepard shooting "Anderson" was actually him shooting himself (because of the wound, which was probably already there), why doesn't shooting "TIM", which is also himself, create another wound?

Edit:

@Kalle
Meh. Shepard has a Reputation Bar. That makes him immune to indoctrination. Simple game mechanics.

Modifié par Rasofe, 02 avril 2012 - 08:38 .

[Izhalezan]

Rasofe wrote...

Garrus was onboard a Reaper at one point.
He indoctrinated too?

Shepard's time spent exposed to Reaper teach far outweighs any time Garrus has had.

[Rasofe]

But Garrus doesn't have a reputation bar. So if indoctrination was attempted, Garrus would succumb.
That's true for all your squad members.

[kalle90]

Rasofe wrote...
Meh. Shepard has a Reputation Bar. That makes him immune to indoctrination. Simple game mechanics.

Call it "Willpower Bar" and you have an argument. Reputation didn't stop Saren, TIM (assuming what we see is real), Kenson or anyone from getting treated.

Anyway I believe it's established that Bioware was going to add indoctrination sequence, but there were some issues about the gameplay. That doesn't mean they didn't implement it without the gameplay.

What about the dreams?
- More and more oily figures added into the mix?
- Whispers and Reaper noises?
- Headaches afterwards?
- There's more, but most can be interpretered in multiple ways.
= Was Bioware really trying to force emotion on us with that 1 kid? The dreams serve no other purpose?

[VampireSoap]

PhotonMaze wrote...

Get of your ****ing high horse. I am a full on atheist and anti-theist. I despise religion and the only truth I accept is science. I hate that people are comparing the indoctrination theory to religions. Do I shape my life around believing the IT? No. Am I absolutely certain it is true? No, but the evidence is very compelling. The IT can be more easily compared to a scientific theory than a religion because there is actual evidence. None of it absolutely proves the theory, but it is all very plausable.

While I cannot say for certain if it's true (no one can yet) the indoctrination theory is very feasible for a few important reasons:

1. Shepard's breath at the end of the game in what looked to be London- This almost certainly means something. Why would Bioware put it in otherwise?
2. The way that the delevopers have recently been acting, it sounds like they have got something big planned and they had it planned before the game was released (See Michael Gamble's tweet)
3. The fact that the end game sequence correlates in many ways with how indoctrination is percieved throughout the series.
4. Shepard isn't himself when talking to the starchild.
5. Countless more reasons.

The point in a theory is that it is a theory!!! No one is claiming to know that the indoctrination theory is true - unlike religious people who claim with absolute certainty that god exists. That is why this is more like a scientific theory. We were waiting patiently on the results.

I understand your anger, but I just want to say that a scientific theory is nothing like this. Have you ever read a book that proves a scientific theory? For one thing, these books always have a bibliography, they always cite reliable sources, experiments done by scientists in the past. And then, you consider religious texts, say, the Bible, does it ever cite any sources? Does it ever provide any empirical evidence? I'm not saying having faith is wrong and certainy does NOT despise religions, but you are an atheist yourself. So I assume you must also possess a wonderful scientific mind and will understand what I've been trying to convey.

[MrCvb]

Why is this in the "No Spoilers" forum?

[ThomasakaDes_]

Watch:


At the end when Shepard takes a breath.
When did Citadel have concrete? Everything on the Citadel is made of metal.
The special room Sheaprd is in is all metal.


You people who deny the IT, what will you say when BW explains the end with Indoctrination?
"Ah, BW was just lazy, blabla"?

BW has probably had this planed ever since they started on the game, maybe even from the start.
Shepard isn`t immune to it.
A reason why Garrus or any of the other crew isn`t indoctrinated(as far as we know) might just be becaus Harbinger doesn`t need them, it`s Shepard he wants.

[VampireSoap]

ThomasakaDes_ wrote...

Watch:


At the end when Shepard takes a breath.
When did Citadel have concrete? Everything on the Citadel is made of metal.
The special room Sheaprd is in is all metal.


You people who deny the IT, what will you say when BW explains the end with Indoctrination?
"Ah, BW was just lazy, blabla"?

BW has probably had this planed ever since they started on the game, maybe even from the start.
Shepard isn`t immune to it.
A reason why Garrus or any of the other crew isn`t indoctrinated(as far as we know) might just be becaus Harbinger doesn`t need them, it`s Shepard he wants.

Probably? Maybe? Might? 

Modifié par VampireSoap, 02 avril 2012 - 09:44 .

[ThomasakaDes_]

VampireSoap wrote...

ThomasakaDes_ wrote...

Watch:


At the end when Shepard takes a breath.
When did Citadel have concrete? Everything on the Citadel is made of metal.
The special room Sheaprd is in is all metal.


You people who deny the IT, what will you say when BW explains the end with Indoctrination?
"Ah, BW was just lazy, blabla"?

BW has probably had this planed ever since they started on the game, maybe even from the start.
Shepard isn`t immune to it.
A reason why Garrus or any of the other crew isn`t indoctrinated(as far as we know) might just be becaus Harbinger doesn`t need them, it`s Shepard he wants.

Probably? Maybe? Might? 

Well I don`t work for BW, so I can`t write "BW has had this planed from the start", it`s just becaus Harbinger don`t want them" ;P

Just testing text colour.
It didn`t want to change the colour earlier

Modifié par ThomasakaDes_, 02 avril 2012 - 09:52 .

[VampireSoap]

MrCvb wrote...

Why is this in the "No Spoilers" forum?

Yeah, I never intentionally spoiled the story, and I also hope that people can do the same. The topic is indeed a little bit about the end of the story, but we can still discuss it without mentioning specific plots.

[VampireSoap]

ThomasakaDes_ wrote...

Well I don`t work for BW, so I can`t write "BW has had this planed from the start", it`s just becaus Harbinger don`t want them" ;P

Just testing text colour.
It didn`t want to change the colour earlier

I believe you've just made my point :happy:

[kalle90]

ThomasakaDes_ wrote...
Well I don`t work for BW, so I can`t write "BW has had this planed from the start"

That is all that can be said.

Also discussing about theory and stating proof without spoilers? That's some vague science.

[Awookie]

kalle90 wrote...

Rasofe wrote...
Meh. Shepard has a Reputation Bar. That makes him immune to indoctrination. Simple game mechanics.

Call it "Willpower Bar" and you have an argument. Reputation didn't stop Saren, TIM (assuming what we see is real), Kenson or anyone from getting treated.

Anyway I believe it's established that Bioware was going to add indoctrination sequence, but there were some issues about the gameplay. That doesn't mean they didn't implement it without the gameplay.

What about the dreams?
- More and more oily figures added into the mix?
- Whispers and Reaper noises?
- Headaches afterwards?
- There's more, but most can be interpretered in multiple ways.
= Was Bioware really trying to force emotion on us with that 1 kid? The dreams serve no other purpose?

If you've noticed, BioWare rarely adds emotion to deaths.  Even as your own squadmembers die in ME2, there really is little to no time left for mourning. 

The fact that the kid recurrs frequently in nightmares, and is the human form of the catalyst = somethings up. 

The Indoctrination Theory is quite intresting.  Theres a lot of evidence to support it.  The asari mind control thread is also a fascinating idea.  They both focus on the subconcious. 

IMO, I see the subconcious as one area of the mind that YOU cant control, but others can.  And you cant even tell if its being manipulated, bended or twisted.  But the worst part of it is that it seeps the ideas into your concious thought patterns. 

Modifié par Awookie, 02 avril 2012 - 10:06 .

[VampireSoap]

kalle90 wrote...

ThomasakaDes_ wrote...
Well I don`t work for BW, so I can`t write "BW has had this planed from the start"

That is all that can be said.

Also discussing about theory and stating proof without spoilers? That's some vague science.

There are many other ways to question or prove a theory. Like discussing its credibility and its logic.

For example, highly hypothetically, if I claim that I had sex with your mother 20 years ago, and then it was you. What you can do is to question my theory's credibility by asking me to show proofs like DNA results. You can also argue that your mom has never heard of me, let alone knowing me, so the probability of me being your biological father is almost non-existent. See, you can do all those without actually discussing specific details of my theory and still make a very valid point.

Modifié par VampireSoap, 02 avril 2012 - 10:15 .

[ThomasakaDes_]

Most people who discuss in here has probably() completed the game at least once now.
When I had completed it once(Synthesis) I stopped caring if I read a spoiler for the other endings, I was more interested in finding out wtf was up with the ending, and the indoctrination theory seems very likely, becaus of all the weird stuff I noticed in the end.

If someone who haven`t finished it yet comes into this thread, they can just turn around and leave.
Or a mod can move the thread. I vote for this, becaus there is most likely spoiler on every page

[BurnOutBrighter]

Because it's the only way out of that awful, broken ending.

We'd prefer that the ending was a dream that didn't actually happen, instead of the ending that was real and did actually happen. That's how bad it is.

Modifié par BurnOutBrighter, 02 avril 2012 - 11:26 .